martinez should be tried in that DM role if we end up (as per usual) not filling that roleOur squad is worse than last year.
We brought in a left back as a backup.
A CB who is 5ft 9in.
An attacking midfielder on a free.
These players were not a priority for positions we needed most.
A DM and a CF should have been our priority, now we will panic buy.
On paper they're not but they're softer, have less desire, and aren't willing to fight when other teams are. If you are worse than the opposition at the basics of football it doesn't matter how good you are on paper. Getting out run and out fought usually see's you lose games regardless of who you are.United is not worse than Brentford and Brighton. It's in their heads.
Why? So he can get bullied in midfield instead of defence?martinez should be tried in that DM role if we end up (as per usual) not filling that role
you do get the feeling, don't you, that some of the current players are living on the past glories - and results and performances - of United sides of days long, long goneOn paper they're not but they're softer, have less desire, and aren't willing to fight when other teams are. If you are worse than the opposition at the basics of football it doesn't matter how good you are on paper. Getting out run and out fought usually see's you lose games regardless of who you are.
Well that's what a manager is for surely? That, and realizing you should play from the back with De Gea and Maguire. Yesterday's game was a tactical brainfart.On paper they're not but they're softer, have less desire, and aren't willing to fight when other teams are. If you are worse than the opposition at the basics of football it doesn't matter how good you are on paper. Getting out run and out fought usually see's you lose games regardless of who you are.
Good managers adapt to what they have. No manager no matter how great he is, to a new club, kicks some chairs around and gets 15 players to play his "own" style. It takes time, a lot of work and patience to implement a style.Great post. He still has time to change things somewhat however but the concern is he might not have the faintest idea how to play/coach a different more pragmatic brand of football. Also does he have the balls to drop the players you mentioned? No on the evidence so far.
Surely McLaren sees this?
people are talking about his lack of height - it will matter less in there. Plus he's had two (not completed) games and can't be judged yet. I recall Gary Pallister having a torrid time early on (think he scored an own goal first time out)Why? So he can get bullied in midfield instead of defence?
We're lame, other teams can sense blood in the water when we turn up and start doing shaky blind passes to no one or the keeper starts throwing the ball in his own net. There's no fear factor anymore, that was Brentford's cup final and they won it. Heads went down on our team when we conceded, there's no trust and a massive amount of resentment throughout the team. It doesn't matter how much you've trained or worked all pre-season to get fit and get prepared if your GK and defence are going to do mad shit like that every game. You're going to get hammered for their mistakes.you do get the feeling, don't you, that some o the current players are living on the past glories - and results and performances - of United sides of days long, long gone
I thought he would have done this yesterday instead of playing Eriksen there which was completely the wrong decision.martinez should be tried in that DM role if we end up (as per usual) not filling that role
This is why I was on the fence about Ten Hag. System managers only ever play more of the system when things aren't working, then they need £500m to replace the whole team if that doesn't work. United won't do that because it's cheaper to just replace the manager with someone who will play counter attacking football instead, which is ultimately what is going to happen before the season is over.Well that's what a manager is for surely? That, and realizing you should play from the back with De Gea and Maguire. Yesterday's game was a tactical brainfart.
it was a poor decision - like playing Eriksen up top against brighton. I hope it's only because Varane isn't fully fit and Lindeloff is injured. Martinez has the pocket battleship look about him: a Souness, if you like. That might be suited to being a DM - it can't be worse than Fred and McT have been so far this seasonI thought he would have done this yesterday instead of playing Eriksen there which was completely the wrong decision.
Well that is on the leadership of the club. Why on earth hire a manager with a playing style like that and not get him the personnel to play that style?Well that's what a manager is for surely? That, and realizing you should play from the back with De Gea and Maguire. Yesterday's game was a tactical brainfart.
Agree.it was a poor decision - like playing Eriksen up top against brighton. I hope it's only because Varane isn't fully fit and Lindeloff is injured. Martinez has the pocket battleship look about him: a Souness, if you like. That might be suited to being a DM - it can't be worse than Fred and McT have been so far this season
A couple of years out of Europe and we'll be resigned to mid-table. Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool,, Spurs, arguably West Ham. 6 teams we are competing with for a European spot, and they all look better and recruit more efficiently than us. Then we have Newcastle with infinite money coming after us soon.Yes, we are that bad, because their confidence is gone and for most of them, theres no regaining that as long as they are still here.
We need to swallow the bitter pills and accept a couple of years out of Europe, with EtH afforded the investment and patience needed to build a young, technical and hardworking team that can truly compete, not this bunch of bottlers and nearly-men.
Which would be fine if we actually saw players capable of playing that style recruited. I wouldn't be as worried if we got de Jong, a competent partner for him, a promising goalkeeper and a proper striker up top. At least that is a spine to start building from. What we have right now, isn't.This squad of players is not up to playing the football that ETH wants to play, simple as that.
He either needs another 4/5 first tram players to play his way, or revert back to Oleball and play on the counter with bodies behind the ball. The exact football that got him sacked.
Even with new players we’re still weeks/months away from coherent football, so we’re basically in-between styles and it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
I think good managers eventually implement their own style, maybe they adapt in the short term but in the long run they implement their style. Pep and Klopp are evidence of this.Good managers adapt to what they have. No manager no matter how great he is, to a new club, kicks some chairs around and gets 15 players to play his "own" style. It takes time, a lot of work and patience to implement a style.
Even Ole who is far from a good manager had the ability to get something out from some of this lot. He had the capacity to understand our limitations and play defensively in some games or play a less riskier way in others.
Build from the back and dominate possession style is the hardest thing to do in football, no wonder very few managers are successful at it. We need to ditch this asap, it's not for us and maybe will never be.
Bloody hell fella. Calm a little.Ah yes, of course. I forgot. That has totally changed my outlook, I'm now delighted with yesterday's result against a team who will likely be back in the championship in the next couple of years. We might end up playing them in that league.
Didn’t seem to hurt Pool. You either do things properly or not at all, even without Europe, we still have more resources than half of those teams you listed. What’s needed at this club is a proper plan and the werewithal to stick to it, not this merry go round of top 4 or bust that saw us turning from the English top dog into a laughing stock.A couple of years out of Europe and we'll be resigned to mid-table. Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool,, Spurs, arguably West Ham. 6 teams we are competing with for a European spot, and they all look better and recruit more efficiently than us. Then we have Newcastle with infinite money coming after us soon.
It started under Ole, who spent years mollycoddling most of the players and developing a dressing room culture that couldn't handle criticism. Which worked at first to rebuild confidence after Mourinho, but ultimately left the dressing room in an even more fragile state with far too many players who don't have the mental strength to get over setbacks. That's why it all went to shit last season under Ole, continued under Rangnick and so far is continuing under ETH. I don't see it changing until there is a significant change of personnel in the dressing room in one go that can completely reset the dressing room culture. A couple of players here and there won't do as over the months they slowly degenerate to the level around them.I said this last season but the Rangnick stint psychologically damaged the players to the point they will never recover or be able to play at a high level ever again. This group are so mentally fragile that they completely crumbled under the slightest criticism which then snowballed into bigger criticism, and instead of coming out fighting they got their PR teams to work overtime. Now there's nowhere to hide, everyone's looking for someone to blame and even they know there's only so much PR people will take.
I said on the day Ole was given the job full time (weeks ahead of when the suits said a decision would be made), that huge damage could be done to the club. I loved Ole as a player but it really wasn't rocket science to spot he was totally wrong for the job. By comparison, keeping Jose in post wouldn't have been nearly so bad - and boy, has he turned out to be right about many thingsIt feels almost like the last days of Ole completely broke the players.
Huddersfield are my second team and the same happened to them - ended up getting stuffed week in week out around the time Wagner left, then got relegated from the PL with loads of games to spare.
But in the Championship they still carried out on - losing week in week out, and nearly got relegated from that too. It wasn't until Corberan came in a couple of years later they started winning again.
United could easily end up battling relegation and possibly go down.
The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. We should be capable of executing a plan and compete for top 4 at the same time.Didn’t seem to hurt Pool. You either do things properly or not at all, even without Europe, we still have more resources than half of those teams you listed. What’s needed at this club is a proper plan and the werewithal to stick to it, not this merry go round of top 4 or bust that saw us turning from the English top dog into a laughing stock.
Same league Arsenal finished consecutive 8ths before nearly getting 4th last season.The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. We should be capable of executing a plan and compete for top 4 at the same time.
We have far more money than Liverpool had comparitvely speaking, even by modern standards. There is no reason for us to go the same route as Liverpool did. If we do, it will be because we have failed to come up with a coherent and well executed plan.
Also, Liverpool never had this many to compete with. The league has never had this many wealthy well run teams fighting for CL football
So leave him at CB thenpeople are talking about his lack of height - it will matter less in there. Plus he's had two (not completed) games and can't be judged yet. I recall Gary Pallister having a torrid time early on (think he scored an own goal first time out)
Maintaining European football over a longer period of time is impossible without building a solid and functional team. A successful rebuild should lead to CL qualification, if it doesn't we have done a bad job of it.Same league Arsenal finished consecutive 8ths before nearly getting 4th last season.
In principles, I agree, we should strive to rebuild while maintaining participation in European competitions, but said participation should not come at the expense of the rebuild. We have thrown away nearly a billion pounds chopping and changing based on CL football and it has seen us getting progressively worse, not better.
I think we would pick up more points from the next 6 PL games going defensive and playing on the break, but that would be a very short-term plan which would be detrimental to the long-term goals of ETH.Which would be fine if we actually saw players capable of playing that style recruited. I wouldn't be as worried if we got de Jong, a competent partner for him, a promising goalkeeper and a proper striker up top. At least that is a spine to start building from. What we have right now, isn't.
They will want revenge for pre-season. We are going to get utterly destroyed.I think we would pick up more points from the next 6 PL games going defensive and playing on the break, but that would be a very short-term plan which would be detrimental to the long-term goals of ETH.
He should, and he will stick to his philosophy and hopefully the club back him and the fans get behind him when we pick up <10points after the first 8 PL games.
It’s going to be a rough few weeks and it’s hard to predict what will happen, for example if we ended up beating Liverpool that could suddenly be the catalyst we need to push on. This Liverpool game is almost the perfect game for us as no one expects us to win so the pressure is a lot less. He’s got over a week to prepare for the game. Let’s see what happens.
I think I have every right to be fuming to be fair. I don't expect to be getting beat 4-0 by relegation fodder, I don't care if it's his second match or his 200th, if this happened at Real Madrid he would be gone. Obviously he inherited a huge amount of issues but there is plenty that is his own doing - buying Martinez instead of a midfielder, keeping Dalot and DDG around when they are both horrifically bad, trying to play high line with Maguire, playing Ericksen as false nine in one game then deep lying midfielder the next when he is neither. The dog on the street knew how shit some of these players are but ETH for some reason had to see it with his own eyes and give them yet another chance.Bloody hell fella. Calm a little.
You can't expect the manager to change the entire squads outlook and ability within two games.
Yes, the squad were outrun yesterday, this isn't new. We have a squad void of confidence, belief and drive. It's going to take years to get it right.
