Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up

Hammondo

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Those moaning mostly are not from Arsenal fans anyway. However in terms of entertainment the Brentford vs Man Utd game was more end to end and offered a lot more excitement. The City vs Arsenal game was indeed very boring to watch. Only 3 shots on target!!!
I'm pretty sure neither fans care about that, they want to win the PL.
 

Changeisgood

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If that old looking little fella had played the very easy ball across the box for Martinelli romping in, you might have nicked it.
But otherwise it was pretty much a defensive job, and a good one at that.

Id like to hope that he was marginally offside, cause Martinelli was probably getting a sitter there!

I dont know if he is old or we are going to find out one day that he is an 24/7 gamer.
 

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I'm pretty sure neither fans care about that, they want to win the PL.
I'm not sure Arsenal fans do want to win the PL though. Not this season anyway. They've got the 'didn't lose to City or Liverpool trophies' already judging by their fans comments on here, Rawk and my footy WhatsApp group.
 

ThierryHenry14

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I'm not sure Arsenal fans do want to win the PL though. Not this season anyway. They've got the 'didn't lose to City or Liverpool trophies' already judging by their fans comments on here, Rawk and my footy WhatsApp group.
Judging Utd and Liverpools fans comment on here I agree that Utd and Liverpools fans want Arsenal to win the PL more than Arsenal fans.
 

FeelingDangerous

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I don't understand why United and Liverpool fans are so indignant Arsenal secured a draw in the manner they did.

We're two points off the pace with around 25% of the season left to go. It wasn't pretty, but it was a job done and we're still very much in the running.

There's still 27 points to play for, all three clubs are going to drop points. Its about consistency from hereon in.


Liverpool have an easier path given their favourable European commitments. City have the kindest fixture list. But Arsenal are the in form team this calendar year.

I would have us third favourite as our form of scoring fives and sixes has sizzled a little and we've a very rough April ahead. Honestly, I'm just enjoying being relevant again, playing games that matter every week at this stage of the season is such a welcome change of pace from several decades of mediocrity.

I also take the abuse we're receiving on this thread and further afield as a positive. From within the fanbase, it very much feels like Arsenal are in the ascendancy and we're provoking resentment from across the aisle. Which is delicious compared to dismissive indifference. Bring it on.
 

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A draw away against Manchester City is a good result. If Arsenal end up 2 or 3 points short to win the league, it will because they only got 1 from the 6 points they could have gotten against Fulham for example. Not because they couldnt win away at Manchester City.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is bad result. However, my feeling is that they had to go after City. A bit of context why I'm saying this is the fact that Arsenal has been blowing teams out of the water with their performances. City has never been more vulnerable, hit with injuries, unconvincing wins and out of form Haaland.

The games against Fulham and West Ham will surely hurt them, however, given that Arsenal are in hot form, I really thought they were going to go after them. The way they got the draw will give Arsenal confidence that they can go anywhere, and not concede, so I can also understand it why they played for a draw.
 

FeelingDangerous

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Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is bad result. However, my feeling is that they had to go after City. A bit of context why I'm saying this is the fact that Arsenal has been blowing teams out of the water with their performances. City has never been more vulnerable, hit with injuries, unconvincing wins and out of form Haaland.

The games against Fulham and West Ham will surely hurt them, however, given that Arsenal are in hot form, I really thought they were going to go after them. The way they got the draw will give Arsenal confidence that they can go anywhere, and not concede, so I can also understand it why they played for a draw.
Also had an inconveniently timed International friendly and two week hiatus to interrupt our flow.

I'm not a professional footballer so I can't say for certain, but I'd suspect its awkward to come back after this mini (and pointless) break and pick up from where you left off in what is the hardest Premier League game of the season - City away.

I'm sure we would have liked to play on the front foot more, but City are better in possession. The best team in the world in possession, in fact. All their absentees were in their back line, which did little to disript their footballing dominance.

City remain the best team in the world, but we can compete now. Not tic for tac, but we've an (ugly) solution.

The two games have also laid the blueprint of what we need to replicate if we meet in the semi final of the Champions League. Stifle them away, nick it at home.
 

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Just amused at the responses here. I mean we are Third favourites for the title and the Third best team if you ask any non Arsenal fan but we are then expected to go for a win away to the best team in the World.

When was the last time a title challenging team won away to City?


If this was a cup/CL match and we needed a win to go through and we played like this then yeah but this is a league with 9 more games to go.
 

Statue of Limitations

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City were dire too in that match, good point for Arsenal and hopefully they win the league from here.

No idea why people are writing them off having vastly improved on the 4-1 battering last year, they are well in this.
 

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Just amused at the responses here. I mean we are Third favourites for the title and the Third best team if you ask any non Arsenal fan but we are then expected to go for a win away to the best team in the World.

When was the last time a title challenging team won away to City?


If this was a cup/CL match and we needed a win to go through and we played like this then yeah but this is a league with 9 more games to go.
Non Arsenal fans knew this even last season when Klopp's team needed an overhaul. This season is the correction. But your acceptance of being the third best team (and the performance you put in) is baffling, I suppose it's baby steps before you start thinking of yourselves as one of the real big teams. Maybe next season.
 

Daydreamer

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Non Arsenal fans knew this even last season when Klopp's team needed an overhaul. This season is the correction. But your acceptance of being the third best team (and the performance you put in) is baffling, I suppose it's baby steps before you start thinking of yourselves as one of the real big teams. Maybe next season.
I think both statements can be true. We're one of the big teams but currently not at the level of City or Liverpool. I don't see the problem in being clear-eyed about where we're at.
 

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If that old looking little fella had played the very easy ball across the box for Martinelli romping in, you might have nicked it.
But otherwise it was pretty much a defensive job, and a good one at that.
Trossard was offside in the buildup.
 

Donaldo

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Non Arsenal fans knew this even last season when Klopp's team needed an overhaul. This season is the correction. But your acceptance of being the third best team (and the performance you put in) is baffling, I suppose it's baby steps before you start thinking of yourselves as one of the real big teams. Maybe next season.
Never stop being a wind up merchant, Dumpstar...

Most on here had us top 6 material at the beginning of the season and now we're supposed to be destroying the best team in the world away from home :lol:
 

TambourineMan

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Non Arsenal fans knew this even last season when Klopp's team needed an overhaul. This season is the correction. But your acceptance of being the third best team (and the performance you put in) is baffling, I suppose it's baby steps before you start thinking of yourselves as one of the real big teams. Maybe next season.

In the curious cacophony of football fandom, Liverpool supporters have been swift to castigate Arsenal's approach to game against City and their subsequent acceptance of the outcome, portraying it as a reflection of a lackluster mentality and questionable credentials befitting a club of stature.

Yet, within the whirlwind of critique, one cannot help but recall that these very fans are the ones who extol Jurgen Klopp for his solitary title triumph in eight seasons. It begs the question: if Liverpool faithful are willing to concede that Klopp's league performance falls short of expectations, then perhaps their criticism of Arsenal's measured reaction to a draw would be more justified.

However, such introspection seems conspicuously absent. Instead, the majority of Liverpool supporters continue to elevate Klopp to a pedestal for merely tangling with Manchester City in three of his eight seasons at the helm. This, despite the undeniable talent pool at his disposal, boasting names like Alisson, van Dijk, Alexander-Arnold, Fabinho, Mane, Salah, and Firmino.

It makes you wonder: if Liverpool fans didn't settle for mediocrity, could they have achieved more with such a talented squad by pushing FSG for a manager geared towards winning consistently rather than just competing occasionally?
 
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Dumbstar

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Never stop being a wind up merchant, Dumpstar...

Most on here had us top 6 material at the beginning of the season and now we're supposed to be destroying the best team in the world away from home :lol:
You finished a comfortable 2nd last season and suffered almost zero first team injuries this season. Who had you top 6? Not Redcafe, surely? :houllier: :)

After City got a mentally and physically draining treble and then actually started picking up key injuries (yes even Grealish at times) I thought they were there for the taking this season. Hopefully Arteta did too?
 

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Never stop being a wind up merchant, Dumpstar...

Most on here had us top 6 material at the beginning of the season and now we're supposed to be destroying the best team in the world away from home :lol:
Klopp has never won in the league at The Etihad, and Pep has a poor record at Anfield I think winning once in a Covid game with no crowd.

These are the 2 best managers in the world with poor away records at each other’s grounds. Can’t remember the same scrutiny after a result as what we are seeing just now.
 

roonster09

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You finished a comfortable 2nd last season and suffered almost zero first team injuries this season. Who had you top 6? Not Redcafe, surely? :houllier: :)

After City got a mentally and physically draining treble and then actually started picking up key injuries (yes even Grealish at times) I thought they were there for the taking this season. Hopefully Arteta did too?
Point vs City away from home is a good result.
 

awop

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You'd think we've grinded 1-0 victories playing boring football when we've been pissing on the league for 3/4 months scoring 3,4,5 and 6 goals per game.
Wanting City to fail has turned people crazy.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Going there and playing for a point, like they think that's enough. Such arrogance.
They’ve taken four points off Liverpool and City. Every single team with title aspirations would take that at the start of every single season.

It was a great result and they could’ve nicked a 1-0 win on another day.

Flawless away performance against a league rival. Mad to suggest otherwise.
 

Sandikan

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They’ve taken four points off Liverpool and City. Every single team with title aspirations would take that at the start of every single season.

It was a great result and they could’ve nicked a 1-0 win on another day.

Flawless away performance against a league rival. Mad to suggest otherwise.
I don't think a draw can ever be described as flawless.
 

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Please beat Liverpool in the league and let us both rejoice in their failure to win the league.
 

Verward

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Klopp has never won in the league at The Etihad, and Pep has a poor record at Anfield I think winning once in a Covid game with no crowd.

These are the 2 best managers in the world with poor away records at each other’s grounds. Can’t remember the same scrutiny after a result as what we are seeing just now.
If I am correct, he did win at Etihad in his first season but not since Pep took over. In CL, they did win at Etihad though.
 

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In the curious cacophony of football fandom, Liverpool supporters have been swift to castigate Arsenal's approach to game against City and their subsequent acceptance of the outcome, portraying it as a reflection of a lackluster mentality and questionable credentials befitting a club of stature.

Yet, within the whirlwind of critique, one cannot help but recall that these very fans are the ones who extol Jurgen Klopp for his solitary title triumph in eight seasons. It begs the question: if Liverpool faithful are willing to concede that Klopp's league performance falls short of expectations, then perhaps their criticism of Arsenal's measured reaction to a draw would be more justified.

However, such introspection seems conspicuously absent. Instead, the majority of Liverpool supporters continue to elevate Klopp to a pedestal for merely tangling with Manchester City in three of his eight seasons at the helm. This, despite the undeniable talent pool at his disposal, boasting names like Alisson, van Dijk, Alexander-Arnold, Fabinho, Mane, Salah, and Firmino.

It makes you wonder: if Liverpool fans didn't settle for mediocrity, could they have achieved more with such a talented squad by pushing FSG for a manager geared towards winning consistently rather than just competing occasionally?
Nicely worded. One thing you need to understand about Liverpool fans is we are future Arsenal fans (second team obviously) once Klopp leaves and City get their expected minor slapped wrists for the 115. Before we become those Arsenal fans though we need to toughen you up. We are used to seeing all or nothing, leave it on the pitch, big cahonas football. Not the usual North London bottling version at the business end.

Trinket results mean nothing. You go big or you feck off.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Please beat Liverpool in the league and let us both rejoice in their failure to win the league.
We hope, going by recent history in these encounters though, we will roll over for them and beat you somehow. In Ole’s last season we beat you 3-2 while shipping 5 against them at home.
 

GoonerBear

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If I am correct, he did win at Etihad in his first season but not since Pep took over. In CL, they did win at Etihad though.
Apologies, i did mean to say a Pep led City, i was meaning direct head to head between the 3 managers in particular, but you are correct.
 

Changeisgood

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Nicely worded. One thing you need to understand about Liverpool fans is we are future Arsenal fans (second team obviously) once Klopp leaves and City get their expected minor slapped wrists for the 115. Before we become those Arsenal fans though we need to toughen you up. We are used to seeing all or nothing, leave it on the pitch, big cahonas football. Not the usual North London bottling version at the business end.

Trinket results mean nothing. You go big or you feck off.
Life is thankfully rarely all or nothing and football is no exception. You pick your battles, you pick your strategies, you win or live to fight another day. Sorry to get philosophical here but that attitude doesnt work. What do you tell a bottom club that needs 1 point to survive who is playing away to a slightly better team? All or nothing? Dont think so. Pool didnt go all or nothing in their home fixture vs City. They pushed but they played according to a game plan, and by the way, they did not get the three points either (nor at the Etihad)

I want to see a little bit more from my team away. I think we gave up a bit too much possession, but I would not expect them to have an all or nothing attitude going in.

Of course if this was the last two games of the season...yea I would definitely ask for more going forward. Same could be said for City too btw. They certainly didn't go all or nothing either.
 

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Life is thankfully rarely all or nothing and football is no exception. You pick your battles, you pick your strategies, you win or live to fight another day. Sorry to get philosophical here but that attitude doesnt work. What do you tell a bottom club that needs 1 point to survive who is playing away to a slightly better team? All or nothing? Dont think so. Pool didnt go all or nothing in their home fixture vs City. They pushed but they played according to a game plan, and by the way, they did not get the three points either (nor at the Etihad)

I want to see a little bit more from my team away. I think we gave up a bit too much possession, but I would not expect them to have an all or nothing attitude going in.

Of course if this was the last two games of the season...yea I would definitely ask for more going forward. Same could be said for City too btw. They certainly didn't go all or nothing either.
I can fully understand the hopes, expectations and fears of Arsenal fans. I just feel the team and the manager are still just waiting to break through the last mental barrier. Our game with City was at a different time to your game with City. Timing is everything. We didn't need to beat City to go top and pretty much stay top (proof is in the pudding and the eating as of today). You did. But you chose not to out of pure fear (that barrier).

City didn't go all or nothing because they were undergoing a mini injury crisis at the back. Yes they have £200m replacements, etc but things don't work out like that when they haven't played together regularly. Pep will be relieved he isn't 4 points behind Liverpool AND Arsenal after Sunday. He will make up 1 point over Arsenal with his eyes closed and very likely the three points over Liverpool too.
 

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I can fully understand the hopes, expectations and fears of Arsenal fans. I just feel the team and the manager are still just waiting to break through the last mental barrier. Our game with City was at a different time to your game with City. Timing is everything. We didn't need to beat City to go top and pretty much stay top (proof is in the pudding and the eating as of today). You did. But you chose not to out of pure fear (that barrier).

City didn't go all or nothing because they were undergoing a mini injury crisis at the back. Yes they have £200m replacements, etc but things don't work out like that when they haven't played together regularly. Pep will be relieved he isn't 4 points behind Liverpool AND Arsenal after Sunday. He will make up 1 point over Arsenal with his eyes closed and very likely the three points over Liverpool too.
I thought you were trolling up until now.

Has Klopp ever won a league game against Pep at the Etihad? You realise the points all count the same regardless of where they fall in the fixture list, right?

If Liverpool win the league I’ll congratulate as them as the best team in the country over 38 games. But crowing over the manner in which Liverpool come away from games with City with no more points than Arsenal managed is kinda weird.
 

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I thought you were trolling up until now.

Has Klopp ever won a league game against Pep at the Etihad? You realise the points all count the same regardless of where they fall in the fixture list, right?

If Liverpool win the league I’ll congratulate as them as the best team in the country over 38 games. But crowing over the manner in which Liverpool come away from games with City with no more points than Arsenal managed is kinda weird.
The myth of me trolling all the time sits somewhere near the myth that Salah is the worst diver in the league. People believe what they're told and go with it.

This final mental barrier, the trinkets, is what I'm talking about. All games and all points have context. But fair to say we've exhausted our disagreement.
 

Daydreamer

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The myth of me trolling all the time sits somewhere near the myth that Salah is the worst diver in the league. People believe what they're told and go with it.

This final mental barrier, the trinkets, is what I'm talking about. All games and all points have context. But fair to say we've exhausted our disagreement.
I mean, this is literally the first time we’ve responded to each other, ever, as far as I can tell.

It seems like you’re bringing up “mental barriers” (highly subjective), “trinkets” (as yet undetermined this season) and “context” (which seems to mainly involve when in the league season Klopp either loses or draws at the Etihad) to distract from the very flimsy point you’re making.

But, as you say, our argument is likely exhausted.

I look forward to the title race, Klopp has managed his squad masterfully to be top of the table with the players he has available. And City are City. I’m hoping we can take it down to the wire against two excellent sides.
 
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They’ve taken four points off Liverpool and City. Every single team with title aspirations would take that at the start of every single season.

It was a great result and they could’ve nicked a 1-0 win on another day.

Flawless away performance against a league rival. Mad to suggest otherwise.
Not in the circumstances.
 

Gene Loblaw

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getting a point was a great result imo. Only two points down from pool with 9 matches to go. And Arsenal have a significant goal difference advantage.

Obviously it's Pool's title to lose. But one draw and an arsenal win, and arsenal bounce back to top of the league because of gd. And I think every team has a pretty balanced remaining schedule.
 

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I'm not sure Arsenal fans do want to win the PL though. Not this season anyway. They've got the 'didn't lose to City or Liverpool trophies' already judging by their fans comments on here, Rawk and my footy WhatsApp group.

At the start of this season we were told arsenal wouldn't compete for the title and last season was a fluke. We were told to expect to fade into obscurity again. So to be where we are now means we're just consistently lucky I guess.

Full credit to klopp for raallying his team despite injuries and rebuilding the midfield. All three would be worthy champions whoever wins come end of the season (I imagine most will still debate about City though)
 

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At the start of this season we were told arsenal wouldn't compete for the title and last season was a fluke. We were told to expect to fade into obscurity again. So to be where we are now means we're just consistently lucky I guess.

Full credit to klopp for raallying his team despite injuries and rebuilding the midfield. All three would be worthy champions whoever wins come end of the season (I imagine most will still debate about City though)
You lost your credibility with the last bit there. City completely do not deserve anything they achieve. There's no 'debate'!
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Not in the circumstances.
As a United fan of 35 years, every single season that we’d been challenging for the league, I’d take 0-0 away from home against our closest rivals with 9 games left, after beating them at home.

Every single time. To suggest that we’d walk away from a game we largely controlled but couldn’t afford to lose, with a point, and be disappointed… mental.

They played the whole thing perfectly and it’s a fantastic result. First team to stop City scoring at home for 57 matches. Looked like marginally the more dangerous side. All at a ground they routinely get turned over at.

The mental gymnastics involved to suggest Arsenal could/should have gone for it away from home is staggering.
 

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I think it's their season, for sure. City are spluttering along, lacking inspiration (four on the bounce is tough.... ); Liverpool are doing great but I wonder whether their injuries and lack of top, top forward (aside from Salah) may cost them. If Arsenal don't nab it this season, not sure when they will.
 

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As a United fan of 35 years, every single season that we’d been challenging for the league, I’d take 0-0 away from home against our closest rivals after beating them at home.

Every single time. To suggest that we’d walk away from a game we largely controlled but couldn’t afford to lose, with a point, and be disappointed… mental.

They played the whole thing perfectly and it’s a fantastic result. First team to stop City scoring at home for 57 matches. Looked like marginally the more dangerous side. All at a ground they routinely get turned over at.

The mental gymnastics involved to suggest Arsenal could/should have gone for it away from home is staggering.
In isolation you would take a 0-0. However, in the circumstances and the nature of it being a 3 horse race, Arsenal may well regret their approach to the game. They chose to merely sit in, just like what we do away against the top sides. The only difference is that they are a better side than us and therefore restricted City to very few chances. A point doesn't turn the needle and it now leaves them relying on Liverpool slipping up. They simply decided not to take the initiative. I highly doubt that Klopp's Liverpool would have played that match with such little ambition.
 

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I thought Arsenal should have shown more ambition at city. It is still a decent point, but that city team in that moment were there to get a statement win against. It could have been different Trossard managed to get that ball away to Martinelli when he was through, but it felt like Arsenal came not to get beat.