Arsene Windicated?

[FujiVice]

Looking at Arsenal since he left, you think time is being much kinder to Arsene? Looking at the job this bunch have done since he left, he's been vindicated for just how shit that club is. A man who spent less than in 22 years than Pep did in 4. Its no wonder he couldnt compete for prizes. So the idea of their fans thinking getting rid of him and they'll be back among the glory is laughable right now.

 

[horsechoker]

Arsene was on the decline but there were problems above him as well.

The problem is the people that have succeeded Wenger haven't been better managers.

If Arsenal had arrested the decline much sooner like when they were a top 4 club there's a chance they'd still be a top 4 club now.

 

[Dancfc]

He was shit at the end at Arsenal, just because they've somehow managed to get even worse shouldn't distract from that.

There was a reason rival fans were chanting that they wanted him to stay!

 

[Spark]

Wenger was shit, Arteta is shitter.

Arsenal are fecking awful right now. However, I brought this up with a thoroughly depressed Arsenal supporting mate - half serious/half piss take - and he hasn't forgotten the number of batterings they suffered in Wenger's final few years.

There's no way Wenger has been vindicated, the only thing that the years since his departure has proven is that they have much in common with United in terms of how the club is run. Vulture American billionaires with very little emotional connection to the clubs they own.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Wenger was a good manager but a difficult personality. He clashed with the fans over signings but he did a good job keeping things steady.

Since then they've bought a shit ton of dross from lesser clubs - particularly French ones - and few of them have turned out to be excellent players:

Pepe
Lacazette
Xhaka
Lucas Perez(!)
Tierney
Lacazette
Mkhi (swap I know but still crap)

Wenger's biggest sin was giving Ozil that contract.

 

[Guy Incognito]

He was past his best, and left a squad with serious deficiencies. There was a point after 2008 when they could've pushed on to win titles but thy didn't spend and Wenger quickly realised how important getting into the top four was.

But it does highlight how good of a 'manager' he was. Whenever there was a crisis, he could keep things in check and Arsenal never went through a barren run like they are now.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I thought Arsene Windicated was a new player we’ve been scouting

 

[B20]

He has, to some extent. I am fairly certain arsenal would have finished top of four with ease last season if he were still here.

He was facing an issue increasingly uphill battle with the pressure of fan fatigue though and it was clear that he could do no more than thread water. I think both the club and fans needed to find out what a different manager could do.

Now they've realised that top four on a shoestring budget was not par for the course as Wenger made it look, let alone a title challenge.

They've been had big time by their owner though. They were promised spending power after years of austerity and prudence to pay back the stadium and have ended up with even less relative spending power. Wenger also has some responsibility here. Too happy to be a shill for economic interests that weren't really the club's interests.

 

[horsechoker]

I thought Arsene Windicated was a new player we’ve been scouting

"I could've signed him" - Arsene Wenger

 

[RUCK4444]

Yeah he is. There were poor results at the end with Arsene but they retained their 'Arsenal style' of play, right now they are playing god awful football along with the poor results.

It comes back to poor recruitment and lack of money for Arsene, if he had more money to work with at the end he would have maintained their position as a top four finisher. Trying to get a bargain for the likes of Wellbeck instead of top players was the beginning of the end.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Looking at Arsenal since he left, you think time is being much kinder to Arsene? Looking at the job this bunch have done since he left, he's been vindicated for just how shit that club is. A man who spent less than in 22 years than Pep did in 4. Its no wonder he couldnt compete for prizes. So the idea of their fans thinking getting rid of him and they'll be back among the glory is laughable right now.

Don’t agree. His stubbornness in pursuing his project held the club back for years. A couple of FA Cup wins didn’t disguise the huge rebuilding job that was needed. You can’t underplay how far behind they are. He should have left 5 years earlier and used his status to help usher in a young coach.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Wenger was a good manager but a difficult personality. He clashed with the fans over signings but he did a good job keeping things steady.

Since then they've bought a shit ton of dross from lesser clubs - particularly French ones - and few of them have turned out to be excellent players:

Pepe
Lacazette
Xhaka
Lucas Perez(!)
Tierney
Lacazette
Mkhi (swap I know but still crap)

Wenger's biggest sin was giving Ozil that contract.

He bought 2 Lacazettes?

 

[Wiltord02]

Far superior manager to either Emery or Arteta. However, by the time he left he was not achieving to four finishes and was not operating on a "shoestring budget".

Should have left after the FA Cup win over Hull.

Maybe he didn't have the funds comparable to City/Chelsea but he still had big money at his disposable and bought some absolute abysmal players.

Lacazette for 50 million. Xhaka for 46 million. Mustafi for 35 million. Lucas Perez for 18 million. Elneny for 12 million. Debuchy for 14 million. Chambers for 18 million.

 

[Pretzels81]

SAF rebuilt after 2003-2006.

Arsene slowly declined in 2006-2011 (that era led by Fabregas-RVP was never as good as 1997-2004) and never made a comeback. Should have left before 2017, actually. Just because Arsenal has failed with their Spanish managers (twice) doesn't mean Arsene was any good for most of the '10s. Arsenal was the worst club of the "old" Top4 years before Arsene actually left.

 

[Chairman Steve]

His peak was that invincible run and after that ended, it felt like a steady and gradual decline from either being 1st or 2nd to being 3rd or 4th, then finally to 5th or 6th.

I don’t think he ever truly replaced that British backbone of Seaman, Adams, Keown, A.Cole, Campbell etc. The team became entirely consistent of all his foreign guys who he bought cheap, made into stars but left when a better offer came around like Fabregas, Hleb, Adebayor etc. Before that it was a mix of both those type of players.

I think everyone caught up to him in terms of scouting those unknown foreign quantities too that he did so well.

 

[Mogget]

SAF rebuilt after 2003-2006.

Arsene slowly declined in 2006-2011 (that era led by Fabregas-RVP was never as good as 1997-2004) and never made a comeback. Should have left before 2017, actually. Just because Arsenal has failed with their Spanish managers (twice) doesn't mean Arsene was any good for most of the '10s. Arsenal was the worst club of the "old" Top4 years before Arsene actually left.

You seem to be confusing Arsene with Arsenal. As a manager I don't think Wenger declined until around 2016, when we started spending money. Arsenal may have declined from 2006-2011 but Wenger overachieved, if anything, with the players he had available to him.

 

[nuanced]

I was pretty sure Wenger leaving would've the same impact on Arse as SAF leaving did to United. That is, they were a team which was over achieving and better than the sum of its parts. So I always found it weird and short sighted for their fans to boo him. I have had a good schadenfraud at the expense of the Arse board since for forcing Wenger out as well.

He was shit at the end at Arsenal, just because they've somehow managed to get even worse shouldn't distract from that.

There was a reason rival fans were chanting that they wanted him to stay!

Wenger was shit, Arteta is shitter.

Arsenal are fecking awful right now. However, I brought this up with a thoroughly depressed Arsenal supporting mate - half serious/half piss take - and he hasn't forgotten the number of batterings they suffered in Wenger's final few years.

There's no way Wenger has been vindicated, the only thing that the years since his departure has proven is that they have much in common with United in terms of how the club is run. Vulture American billionaires with very little emotional connection to the clubs they own.

His last season he got 63 points, at a time when the top 4 was truly competitive. Those were the times when a team needed 75+ points to break into the top 4. The season prior, Arsenal finished fifth after getting 75 points, and missing CL would've hurt their spending power in the summer. 2017-18 was also the season of Sanchez and Ozil sagas. Sanchez didn't do much in the first half and left in Jan, there were uncertainties regarding Ozil extension.

Wenger's biggest sin was giving Ozil that contract.

Arsenal were desperate in the winter of 2018. Sanchez had just left for United, Ozil was running down his contract and rumoured to be signing for United in the summer. Ozil contract extension was a big win for Arsenal back then. His mismanagement by the subsequent managers and his own attitude since then has made it a costly mistake.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...l--signs-new-deal-arsenal-jack-wilshere-close

He was past his best, and left a squad with serious deficiencies. There was a point after 2008 when they could've pushed on to win titles but thy didn't spend and Wenger quickly realised how important getting into the top four was.

But it does highlight how good of a 'manager' he was. Whenever there was a crisis, he could keep things in check and Arsenal never went through a barren run like they are now.

Yeah, Arsenal looked genuine title contenders till January. The only other time they have been since, was in 2015-16. But you can't really push on, when you heavily depend on buying underrated talent with potential, without matching the spending of teams around you. It catches up with you over time, and the fact that they somehow made the top 4 from 2008 till 2016 was a miracle in itself, I suppose. Man City was also picking their players left, right and center. While they were luring Arsenal first teamers, there were also rumours of them going after any Arsenal transfer targets. Arsenal were so limited in the transfer market, that contrasting to the normally well planned transfer activity of Arsenal, they ended up doing a bunch of last day buys in 2011 I think.

 

[SirAnderson]

If we were to say Fergie left us in a bad shape for a easy rebuild after his department, Wenger's departure was 100 fold worse in terms of setting them up for the future. But then again its also not all down to him, but their board/owners.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Always thought he should’ve left after the CL Final defeat. Would’ve had the pick of the superclubs and bigger chances to win the CL his legacy warrants imo.

 

[Vidyoyo]

He bought 2 Lacazettes?

And a Partey on a pear tree!

 

[giorno]

Wenger signed no outfield players in the summer of '15 despite money being made available and Gazidis begging him to improve the team. Proceeded to not even manage to keep a title race going against leicester city, with everything going their way

somebody in another thread posted united's lineup from that season's 3-2, rashford's debut.

No, arsenal fecking up the succession doesn't vindicate the fact they were rapidly going backwards under him. He was sacked after failing to make top 4 two seasons in a row afterall

 

[Castia]

The board let Wenger down, he was losing a top player almost every summer due to their contract running down and wasn’t given the budget to improve the side.

I said at the time they were mad to sack him, top 4 almost every season with a few cup wins thrown in is about as good as it gets for that club considering the circumstance.

Since he left the football has got worse, the squad is worse and the results and position in the table are at an all time low despite spending decent money in the past couple of windows.

 

[adexkola]

I think it was idiotic of Arsenal fans and other fans and the media in general to continue to expect Wenger to overperform within strict financial constraints while their rivals like City and Chelsea were spending lots of money and poaching their players.

He could have done better with some purchases, but so can any other manager at any club. That's not the point. He was made out to be the scapegoat for Arsenal's issues. He's left, but look at Arsenal now with the same management doing much worse. With the treatment they gave him in his final days, don't feel sorry much for their current predicament.

Go ahead and sack Arteta now, sacking seems to be the magic bullet it seems.

 

[giorno]

Arsene spent £45m(and there was more), £110m, £100m and £140m in '13/14, '14/15, '16/17 and 17/18

Throw in paying top wages to their best players

He wasn't operating under financial constraints

 

[Bastian]

Vindicated, yes.

 

[adexkola]

Arsene spent £45m(and there was more), £110m, £100m and £140m in '13/14, '14/15, '16/17 and 17/18

Throw in paying top wages to their best players

He wasn't operating under financial constraints

Compare that to his rivals at the time.

Plus you can't ignore the lack of spending prior that set the team behind.

 

[giorno]

Compare that to his rivals at the time.

Plus you can't ignore the lack of spending prior that set the team behind.

Still doesn't change the fact they were getting worse instead of better, while actually spending big money

Where were liverpool before Edwards took over? And Rodgers and Klopp? Where are they now?

What about Spurs?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

And a Partey on a pear tree!

A a few French hens

 

[Pow]

Held the club together for years the relegation this season will be the ultimate vindication

 

[sangria]

He bought 2 Lacazettes?

He bought Lescazettes.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

Wenger had definitely declined by the end but he definitely did an admirable job keeping Arsenal in the top 4 spots once Spurs and City really kicked into gear. He could have been better protected in that 08 - 16 period by a Daniel Levy type making it not worth the trouble of sniffing after their players.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Wenger had definitely declined by the end but he definitely did an admirable job keeping Arsenal in the top 4 spots once Spurs and City really kicked into gear. He could have been better protected in that 08 - 16 period by a Daniel Levy type making it not worth the trouble of sniffing after their players.

Didn’t they lose David Dein? He was superb for Arsenal

I don’t think they could do much about the likes of Henry and RVP leaving

 

[Sky1981]

He was shit at the end at Arsenal, just because they've somehow managed to get even worse shouldn't distract from that.

There was a reason rival fans were chanting that they wanted him to stay!

Tbf bar fergie and a select few most managers shits at the end of the tenure. That's why they're sacked.

So unless a manager jumps to a bigger pond you can bet they perform badly on their last season

 

[Morty_]

Arsenal were quite bad during his end there, and were terrible against top sides, but at least they would beat most mid to low-table sides at home, they cant even do that no more.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Arsenal were quite bad during his end there, and were terrible against top sides, but at least they would beat most mid to low-table sides at home, they cant even do that no more.

Yes but the lack of a crowd is levelling things out . There really isn’t much of a home advantage anymore

 

[Ekeke]

He was a victim of his own success. But Arsenal also started paying some large transfer fees and they werent paying off. But yes getting into the champions league almost every season was good, just not the greatness that had come in his earlier years

 

[Morty_]

Yes but the lack of a crowd is levelling things out . There really isn’t much of a home advantage anymore

Yes, but the underlying stats are even worse than Arsenals current position.
Would you ever find a Wenger-side at the bottom of the league when it comes to chance creation? I dont think so, doubt they were ever under top 10 tbh.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

Didn’t they lose David Dein? He was superb for Arsenal

I don’t think they could do much about the likes of Henry and RVP leaving

If I remember Henry claimed at least that Dein himself leaving and uncertainty around Wenger's own future was a big part of him moving to Barca when he did.

 

[Chief123]

When did Wenger farting become a thread?

 

[Lay]

Arsene stagnated. Seems a stubborn man and didn't want to change his principles. Arsenal as a club were married to his image, from he first team to the youth. When you take that away you are bound to have a downturn