Auction Draft Chaos 2021 R1 - Physiocrat vs Enigma

[2mufc0]

Physiocrat

VS

Enigma

Spoiler: Team before formation tweak

Physiocrat Tactics

Tactics – Direct/ Mixed

Formation - 442

Defensive Line Balanced/ Deep

Marking – Zonal

Sit moderately deep and compress the space exploiting Enigma’s lack of width. Lightning counters instigated by DLP Scholes to Zagallo and Finney. Riva and Law as the dynamic front two. Law has licence to do whatever he wants and can play his favoured Di Stefano role. Law will also clearly help out a lot in the defensive phase. Maldini is not restricted to a purely defensive role and will be given the licence to attack like he did at his mid 90s peak.

Enigma Tactics

Formation: 4-4-2 (diamond)
Style: fast paced, direct. Attack from the wings and through the middle.

Defence:
Two balanced full backs, that can produce in both phases of the game. Irwin is known for his stamina and versatility and also his attacking and crossing contribution in the attacking third. Bergomi on the other hand is often underrated in that aspect, although in his younger years he was a menace down the flank and again noted for his crossing ability, along with popping up with a goal here and there. Both have abundance of energy and tactical discipline able to track back and know when to attack. In the heart of defence we have two physical CB's well equipped in handling Riva and Law - both on the deck and in the air in Stam and Lucio.

Midfield:
In the beginning of the draft my premise was building a perfect midfield unit, then the focus shifted towards a great attack. Even though we let go of Neeskens, at the end the final product was more than just satisfactory and the quartet in the middle excelled in the exact same roles and are seamless fit there. Busquets will be at the base of the diamond, picking the ball deep, moving it forward and shielding the defence. Davids is in his natural B2B role on the left - can't really get a better fit than that, whilst Vidal is mirroring the exact same role on the right.
In front of them is a classic #10 in Rivera who will thread passes and create chances for the lethal attacking duo.

Attack:
Van Basten and Eusebio don't need much introduction. A monster in the air and complete forward in Marco will relish the crosses on both sides and be a threat in the box, as well as engaging the opposition CB's, whilst Eusebio is in his second striker role hovering around and in the box and enjoying a bit more freedom, whilst doing what he does best - moving between the lines and converting chances.

 

[2mufc0]

Good luck @Physiocrat @Enigma_87 .

 

[Physiocrat]

Good luck @Physiocrat @Enigma_87 .

Thanks for setting up

 

[Šjor Bepo]

both teams look great and both teams being a bit let down by the set of fullbacks, in style rather then quality. Physio given you got Maldini and you planned to use him at fullback, why didnt you go for a more adventurous winger? For Enigma, im probably the biggest fanboy of Bus you can ever meet but dont see the point of him here, most of his qualities would get lost as everyone around him is just too wild.

 

[Enigma_87]

both teams look great and both teams being a bit let down by the set of fullbacks, in style rather then quality. Physio given you got Maldini and you planned to use him at fullback, why didnt you go for a more adventurous winger? For Enigma, im probably the biggest fanboy of Bus you can ever meet but dont see the point of him here, most of his qualities would get lost as everyone around him is just too wild.

Cheers, Sjor.
On the full backs I’m generally very happy with landing both of them. Yes, they aren’t the most adventurous ones, but both Davids and Vidal can provide width on either side. On top of that both Bergomi and Irwin are excellent crossers and I can see Marco doing quite well against Perfumo / Blanc in that respect. Eusebio is in a free role so generally he can also drop wide and drag defenders off their position.

what I’m trying to say is balanced full backs work for me in this set up and they have the engine and motor to keep running the whole game.

As for Busquets - the reason I went for him is because of his ability on the ball and starting counters from the back also taking the ball out from defence - a role he does perfectly well. It’s not a tiki tak set up - fair but he brings that calmness from the back and ability on the ball.

 

[Enigma_87]

Good luck @Physiocrat @Enigma_87 .

Thanks for setting it up mate and best of luck @Physiocrat

 

[Physiocrat]

both teams look great and both teams being a bit let down by the set of fullbacks, in style rather then quality. Physio given you got Maldini and you planned to use him at fullback, why didnt you go for a more adventurous winger?

I wanted to allow Maldini to get forward quite a bit because he is underutilised in that regard on many occasions. Also I wanted to play quite deep so needed a hard working left winger

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Agree with Sjor. Both teams could do with more adventurous fullbacks.

Physio looks more likely to control the midfield but Enigma might be more likely counter well.

 

[Isotope]

Excellent teams for Round 1.

 

[Physiocrat]

Cheers, Sjor.
On the full backs I’m generally very happy with landing both of them. Yes, they aren’t the most adventurous ones, but both Davids and Vidal can provide width on either side. On top of that both Bergomi and Irwin are excellent crossers and I can see Marco doing quite well against Perfumo / Blanc in that respect. Eusebio is in a free role so generally he can also drop wide and drag defenders off their position.

what I’m trying to say is balanced full backs work for me in this set up and they have the engine and motor to keep running the whole game.

As for Busquets - the reason I went for him is because of his ability on the ball and starting counters from the back also taking the ball out from defence - a role he does perfectly well. It’s not a tiki tak set up - fair but he brings that calmness from the back and ability on the ball.

Whilst Irwin and Bergomi (I'll take your word on young Bergomi) are decent going forward they just simply aren't the type of full-back you want in a diamond. You could possibly get away with one of them but not with both. This is likely to make your attacks very narrow which will make my compact banks of four very difficult to break down. Once you lose possession Scholes gets the ball and we are off on the counter and could cause some serious problems down the flanks. Also to note Law was not just a aerial merchant, he was everywhere and a great dribbler. The link up play with him and RIva supported by Finney will be a menace on the counter.

I understand why you went for Biscuits but he won't be happy with the limited amount of one touch play on offer - someone like Xabi Alonso would have been a much better fit.

@Šjor Bepo On Zagallo again, the 58 version produced a lot going forward and Maldini will contribute more than Nilton did in '58 too

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Physiocrat no worries i rate Zagallo highly but thought you might go for someone with magic in his boots given you have 2 defensive fullbacks.

 

[Enigma_87]

Whilst Irwin and Bergomi (I'll take your word on young Bergomi) are decent going forward they just simply aren't the type of full-back you want in a diamond. You could possibly get away with one of them but not with both. This is likely to make your attacks very narrow which will make my compact banks of four very difficult to break down. Once you lose possession Scholes gets the ball and we are off on the counter and could cause some serious problems down the flanks. Also to note Law was not just a aerial merchant, he was everywhere and a great dribbler. The link up play with him and RIva supported by Finney will be a menace on the counter.

I understand why you went for Biscuits but he won't be happy with the limited amount of one touch play on offer - someone like Xabi Alonso would have been a much better fit.

@Šjor Bepo On Zagallo again, the 58 version produced a lot going forward and Maldini will contribute more than Nilton did in '58 too

Bergomi is often overlooked due to his defensive capabilities. A bit like Maldini in your team. As I said in terms of fit Irwin and Bergomi have the ability to support the attack. Vidal and Davids are also perfect for their diamond role and can occupy wide positions if needed. In a diamond you need someone exactly like Eusebio to drop on either flank and stretch your defensive line. So whilst not the most aggressive full backs we have enough options to support the attack in wide positions.
On your tactics - Perfumo/Blanc are IMO bad fit for both Eusebio and Van Basten. I’d definitely have Marco winning air contests and getting into better positions than Perfumo, who lacks the frame of more physical stopper and Blanc enjoyed having someone like Desailly to take care of that.

And whilst he has the height he also lacks the pace and agility to cope with someone like Eusebio moving through the lines or dragging him wide.
I’m not sure that Stielike and Scholes are also the best support for your CB duo. I’d ideally like someone with more energy there.
Same goes about Vidal attacking the box after a cross - your spine IMO lacks the physical presence in the middle and to succumb to pressure.

 

[Physiocrat]

Bergomi is often overlooked due to his defensive capabilities. A bit like Maldini in your team. As I said in terms of fit Irwin and Bergomi have the ability to support the attack.

I think they're fine behind a wide midfielder to provide support going forward I just don't see them as diamond full-backs. Maldini has a perfect setup with him behind Zagallo where he can provide support and play his natural game.

And whilst he has the height he also lacks the pace and agility to cope with someone like Eusebio moving through the lines or dragging him wide.

Given my tight back four I don't see that being too much of an issue as he will just run into Bergmark.

I’m not sure that Stielike and Scholes are also the best support for your CB duo. I’d ideally like someone with more energy there.

Stielike is I think pigeon hold as a static DM but he was actually more a dynamic B2B player.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think they're fine behind a wide midfielder to provide support going forward I just don't see them as diamond full-backs. Maldini has a perfect setup with him behind Zagallo where he can provide support and play his natural game.

well that’s the thing. Davids and Vidal can perfectly well work out those wide channels, so both wide midfielders in this diamond can offer support. Eusebio also can offer support dropping on the flank to unleash his dribbling ability and pace. On the other hand both Irwin and Bergomi are solid enough to cope with your attacking threat on the line, especially when they receive Davids and Vidal support in the defensive phase. Don’t know much about Bergmark but he’s fairly conservative and especially in the era he plays he wont

Given my tight back four I don't see that being too much of an issue as he will just run into Bergmark.

what’s the plan dealing with Eusebio and Van Basten? I mentioned that your core lacks physical presence in the box, your best headers of the ball are Maldini, Riva and Law. Blanc has the frame, but again he preferred more solid and rugged partner next to him to take care of that.

a deep defensive line where you invite pressure means set pieces and inside the box you have to defend against the likes of Van Basten, Bergomi, Lucio, Vidal, Stam who are very likely to beat their conunterparts in the air. Whilst Eusebio had a cannon shot outside the box and was very mobile forward. It took not only Stiles, but a joint effort of Jack and Sir Bobby to keep him at bay.

Stielike is I think pigeon hold as a static DM but he was actually more a dynamic B2B player.

I just don’t see Stielike containing players like Eusebio and Vidal when you are defending deep. Also which version of Scholes are you using? I’d imagine the later playmaking one?

 

[Physiocrat]

well that’s the thing. Davids and Vidal can perfectly well work out those wide channels, so both wide midfielders in this diamond can offer support. Eusebio also can offer support dropping on the flank to unleash his dribbling ability and pace. On the other hand both Irwin and Bergomi are solid enough to cope with your attacking threat on the line, especially when they receive Davids and Vidal support in the defensive phase. Don’t know much about Bergmark but he’s fairly conservative and especially in the era he plays he wont

He played behind Hamrin who was more of a wide forward than a trad winger like Matthews and Bergmark got forward quite well to play alongside him. Annah did a good write up on him. I will see if I can find it if I have time

what’s the plan dealing with Eusebio and Van Basten? I mentioned that your core lacks physical presence in the box, your best headers of the ball are Maldini, Riva and Law. Blanc has the frame, but again he preferred more solid and rugged partner next to him to take care of that.

Compress the space. It's true MVB is good in the air but it is not as if you have Beckham or Brehme firing them in. Blanc and Perfumo may not be the greatest headers of the ball but I think they will do well enough given that you are unlikely to get in behind the full-backs often to whip it in but more likely sending them from in front on the box which are easier to defend.

I just don’t see Stielike containing players like Eusebio and Vidal when you are defending deep. Also which version of Scholes are you using? I’d imagine the later playmaking one?

Let's not forget Law's defensive contribution here too. Also Scholes is not the defensive liability he is painted as. Sjor had a gold video showcasing his defensive ability a while back. And yes, it is DLP Scholes. I am looking forward to him finding Zagallo or Finney when either Bergomi or Irwin are high up the pitch. Also Biscuits is unlikely to be of much use defensively when the game is stretched with Law buzzing about.

Just a note on Riva, he was not just an aerial player. He started as a winger and was a dynamic forward who can cause the very best trouble. He spearheaded Cagliari's Serie A win in the late 60s. If you adjust for the goals per game ratio of the time his goal scoring record is phenomenal.

 

[2mufc0]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Eusebio on the left.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Eusebio on the left.

Just for Edgar
In all seriousness he is second striker working both channels like he usually did - looking for spaces.

 

[Enigma_87]

He played behind Hamrin who was more of a wide forward than a trad winger like Matthews and Bergmark got forward quite well to play alongside him. Annah did a good write up on him. I will see if I can find it if I have time



Compress the space. It's true MVB is good in the air but it is not as if you have Beckham or Brehme firing them in. Blanc and Perfumo may not be the greatest headers of the ball but I think they will do well enough given that you are unlikely to get in behind the full-backs often to whip it in but more likely sending them from in front on the box which are easier to defend.





Let's not forget Law's defensive contribution here too. Also Scholes is not the defensive liability he is painted as. Sjor had a gold video showcasing his defensive ability a while back. And yes, it is DLP Scholes. I am looking forward to him finding Zagallo or Finney when either Bergomi or Irwin are high up the pitch. Also Biscuits is unlikely to be of much use defensively when the game is stretched with Law buzzing about.

Just a note on Riva, he was not just an aerial player. He started as a winger and was a dynamic forward who can cause the very best trouble. He spearheaded Cagliari's Serie A win in the late 60s. If you adjust for the goals per game ratio of the time his goal scoring record is phenomenal.

Law defensive contribution is minimal inside your box, unless you intend of using him as a spare defender. Even in a deep defensive line he’s still a forward so it’s not expected he’ll defend crosses on consistent basis.

As I said it’s not only I’ll fitted to deal with with Marco but I don’t think you have an answer to Eusebio fluid game.

DLP Scholes and Stielike is a bit static combination to shield the defence. I’m not slashing Scholes defensive game but it was hardly something to brag about and often he picked up cards and made needless fouls and you are asking him to defend a lot here.

 

[Gio]

your best headers of the ball are Maldini, Riva and Law. Blanc has the frame, but again he preferred more solid and rugged partner next to him to take care of that.

To be fair Blanc was exceptional in the air. The guy was 6ft 4' and had a magnet in his head.

 

[2mufc0]

To be fair Blanc was exceptional in the air. The guy was 6ft 4' and had a magnet in his head.

Agree with this.

He was a very well rounded defender and his only really major weakness was his lack of pace.

 

[Enigma_87]

To be fair Blanc was exceptional in the air. The guy was 6ft 4' and had a magnet in his head.

Agree with this.

He was a very well rounded defender and his only really major weakness was his lack of pace.

He’s not a stopper though and it’s unlikely he’ll mark Marco here. It’s not only heading ability alone but positioning and movement in the box and I can see Van Basten being very difficult for both of Physio CBs

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Eusebio on the left.

I posted a shake my head gif earlier and then edited it for my comments above.

With MvB having played with a IR like Gullit, you'd think having Eusebio in same role would make sense, eh. But @Enigma_87 Thankfully he mentioned the free role in OP, so he didn't lose my vote instantly.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

To be fair Blanc was exceptional in the air. The guy was 6ft 4' and had a magnet in his head.

Aye, Blanc was excellent in that regard, and I don't see the aerial route to van Basten as being a consistent source of joy for Enigma here. I agree with him that Bergomi was better technically than he's given credit for but I'm not convinced yet that he's a good fit as RB in a diamond. Irwin's attacking game was excellent but from open play he seemed to be much more prolific as an assister from the right wing - as strange is it sounds, I think there's an argument that he spent most of his career playing in his second-best position. Davids and Vidal are fine choices for the diamond on their own merits but I'm not sure that either was a notably good crosser. I have a lot of sympathy for Enigma's argument that a well-designed strike duo provide much of their own width, and Eusebio was an absolute menace from any channel of the pitch but again I've seen nothing to indicate that he'll be a consistent provider for MVB from crosses.

That said, a Rivera-Eusebio-MVB frontline has plenty of other viable routes to goal, and I could easily see Eusebio winning this by slicing through the centre of Physio's somewhat one-paced spine. Veering towards Physio here but still highly undecided really.

 

[Enigma_87]

Aye, Blanc was excellent in that regard, and I don't see the aerial route to van Basten as being a consistent source of joy for Enigma here. I agree with him that Bergomi was better technically than he's given credit for but I'm not convinced yet that he's a good fit as RB in a diamond. Irwin's attacking game was excellent but from open play he seemed to be much more prolific as an assister from the right wing - as strange is it sounds, I think there's an argument that he spent most of his career playing in his second-best position. Davids and Vidal are fine choices for the diamond on their own merits but I'm not sure that either was a notably good crosser. I have a lot of sympathy for Enigma's argument that a well-designed strike duo provide much of their own width, and Eusebio was an absolute menace from any channel of the pitch but again I've seen nothing to indicate that he'll be a consistent provider for MVB from crosses.

That said, a Rivera-Eusebio-MVB frontline has plenty of other viable routes to goal, and I could easily see Eusebio winning this by slicing through the centre of Physio's somewhat one-paced spine. Veering towards Physio here but still highly undecided really.

Think people just see Bergomi someone like a defensive full back and flat out deny it as an option. At least my impression so far. Bergomi played as a wing back in 5-3-2 during 82 WC for example, yet he can't do a job in a diamond..

A quote from that world cup:

In 1982, Italy won their first World Cup. Paolo Rossi and Co fended off intense competition from powerhouses like Brazil, West Germany and Poland on their way to the final and their tactical superiority paved their way to winning the coveted Jules Rimet trophy. They played in an unorthodox 5-2-3 formation, but on the pitch, they played in a bizarre way. On closer observation, they played in a 1-4-2-2-1 formation, an unheard-of tactic that proved to work wonders.

Italy’s full-backs Antonio Cabrini and Giuseppe Bergomi were two of the most underrated squad members from that famous World Cup-winning team.
But the great Italian team, which prided itself on its tough and resolute backline based on a sweeper system, was criminally underrated. Dino Zoff, Paolo Rossi and Bruno Conti were showered with innumerable plaudits and praise, but the real heroes weren’t acknowledged like they should have been. Rapidly receding in number, the more traditional fans and pundits did appreciate players like Gaetano Scrirea putting in an absolute shift at the back and Claudio Gentile holding his ground with ease, oozing with confidence whenever he passed the ball. Still, they failed to give enough praise to the brilliant full-backs of that side – Antonio Cabrini and Giuseppe Bergomi. The two full-backs were absolutely lethal during that World Cup, running up and down the flanks and covering for any attacks down the wings as well. Cabrini and Bergomi were every coach’s dream – and every opponent’s nightmare as well.

Also first time I hear Irwin was a defensive full back, especially on United forum. Irwin was excellent crosser, two footed as it gets and able to play from both sides.

I appreciate your opinion mate, but I think we have a lot more individuals capable of deciding the game in MvB, Eusebio, Rivera, Vidal, on top of having also the better CB duo.

Personally I'm curious to hear why Physio has better chance of winning this one as Lucio/Stam, two excellent defensively full backs, anchored by Busquets and one of the finest defensive B2B in the game are more likely to crack?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Bergomi as the wingback is an absolute no go. Those formation pictures are pointless as Conti is ahead anyways.

Happy to be proven wrong through footage of which plenty exists.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

You really need to move Maldini to CB and get a good LWB physiocrat, if you progress.

Those fullbacks just make the whole system look a lot inferior than it's actual level.

Bergmark also never joined attacks from what I know. But he is less of a concern with Finney ahead.

Zagallo would be shit without a proper wingback in the modern era IMO. Liked to move centrally, link on the wings, drop deep - all of which would say he would be ace with a wingback

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

On Irwin, he is absolutely fine there. In the past, I played him in a similar role and provided plenty of gifs of him running up the flank without the presence or link up of a winger.

Not the beat option, but still pretty good.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I always thought EAP knows nothing about Eusebio due to his bizzare fixation on the right wwhen there is so much footage of him being equally good on the left.

But this time, I agree he has to be on the right. Would help make up for Bergomi at fullback.

Remember Milan played Costacurta at RB I the diamond in the final of a UCL. It's not ideal, but it's workable with the right personnel and role. That is where Eusebio would have been really handy.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Physio, which version of Scholes is this.? Hope it's not the DLP

Edit: Never mind, OP says it's DLP. Steilike is definitely redundant there as he was essentially a DLP as well. Scholes should play a more free and advanced role like his young days. That really would make the Zagallo pick make a lot of sense too.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

What else - I guess last thoughts before I hit the bed, really like the use of Busquets and Law here. Good job both, I like it.

 

[Enigma_87]

@2mufc0 can you please update the formation:

Tried to stress on Eusebio in a free role, but I think works better in the formation.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Think people just see Bergomi someone like a defensive full back and flat out deny it as an option. At least my impression so far. Bergomi played as a wing back in 5-3-2 during 82 WC for example, yet he can't do a job in a diamond..

A quote from that world cup:


Also first time I hear Irwin was a defensive full back, especially on United forum. Irwin was excellent crosser, two footed as it gets and able to play from both sides.

I appreciate your opinion mate, but I think we have a lot more individuals capable of deciding the game in MvB, Eusebio, Rivera, Vidal, on top of having also the better CB duo.

Personally I'm curious to hear why Physio has better chance of winning this one as Lucio/Stam, two excellent defensively full backs, anchored by Busquets and one of the finest defensive B2B in the game are more likely to crack?

In fairness I explicitly said that I rate Irwin's attacking game very highly. My argument was specifically as regards crosses for MVB, and I don't think it's unfair to say that Irwin would be a more reliable outlet in that regard playing on the right wing. He had a good weaker foot, but he wasn't Brehme either.

I've watched most of Italy's matches from WC 82 at some stage, never specifically for Bergomi admittedly, but I don't remember him providing anything significant in terms of attacking width at all. I'm with @GodShaveTheQueen here - it's not that I'm discounting Bergomi as an option, but it really needs a better case mounted given that there's so much footage available. I've been here before myself having built a diamond with Thuram as RB and Gerrard at RCM, but at least then there was a fair bit more footage supporting Thuram's fit as the sole width provider. And for all his general vileness Gerrard was a properly credible option as a width provider from that position, more so than Vidal.

I'm still on the fence here given that you've managed to cram an obscene amount of individual talent into the budget constraint, but the balance just doesn't look quite right to me in the attacking phase (out of possession it looks tough to break down however).

 

[Himannv]

Agree about Sjor's fullback comment (I guess Maldini is ok for Physio and Enigma's are balanced enough but you want attacking wingbacks there).

I'm assuming this is the DLP version of Scholes? I don't find the pairing with Stielike a very good one - it's a bit like Scholes + Carrick where you kind of feel some aspect is missing. If it's the AM version, I don't like him in a 4-4-2 much.

Voted for Enigma because he's stepping out of his comfort zone plus I like the idea of an MVB + Eusebio pairing.

 

[NM]

Going with @Enigma_87 in a close one. Can still be swayed tbh

 

[Physiocrat]

Here's Annah's old profile on Bergmark which note he did support his winger.

Orvar Bergmark
Position: Defender(RCB, CB, RB)
Height: 1.80m
Weight: 75 kg
NT Achievements:
World Cup Silver - 1958
All star team - 1958 - Best RB of the tournament
World XI - 1960, 1961 - Best RB in the world
----
Style of play
With his great reading of the game he knew exactly when to push forward aggressively to win the ball back for the team before the forward got to touch it unchallenged. Simple, but he excelled at exactly that with a remarkable mix of strength, pace, acceleration and ability to recover back to his position after a tackle.

Orvars defensive game was described as modern as he loved to support the winger, he had a pace and stamina which allowed him to act over large areas. His positioning meant he was always in the right place and he had a way of contorting himself to make perfect tackles and it earned him a world reknowned ability of getting a toe on the most balls even when he ran behind them.

Against Soviet in '58 he put on a masterclass, with the Swedish defense, and won the ball back before they could establish an attack almost every time. It is fascinating that a relatively simple player was rated so highly and it is proof of how efficient and solid he was.

Here is a link to a number of goals Blanc scored many of which were with his head. He has good anticipation and jump on him and it also helps he was 6ft 3in.

https://footballia.net/players/laurent-blanc

Finally a great all-touch comp of Stielike showcasing his dynamism and B2B nature.

 

[Synco]

On the FB question, I'm on the fence. I agree with the managers that FBs like Maldini (and likely Bergomi) are sometimes underappreciated in their offensive contribution. But I also see the point of wanting true attacking FBs in these specific setups. Bergmark I can't judge.

Even in a pretty defensive/controlled setup, it's impossible to look past Enigma's attacking duo + Rivera. But yes, maybe a bit more support would help them.

Physio's team reminds me a tiny bit of Brazil 1962 (not carbon-copy or anything, especially not at CF). Just thinking aloud, no serious contribution.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Physio's team reminds me a tiny bit of Brazil 1962 (not carbon-copy or anything, especially not at CF). Just thinking aloud, no serious contribution.

Closer to1958 IMO but a good shout

 

[Enigma_87]

In fairness I explicitly said that I rate Irwin's attacking game very highly. My argument was specifically as regards crosses for MVB, and I don't think it's unfair to say that Irwin would be a more reliable outlet in that regard playing on the right wing. He had a good weaker foot, but he wasn't Brehme either.

I've watched most of Italy's matches from WC 82 at some stage, never specifically for Bergomi admittedly, but I don't remember him providing anything significant in terms of attacking width at all. I'm with @GodShaveTheQueen here - it's not that I'm discounting Bergomi as an option, but it really needs a better case mounted given that there's so much footage available. I've been here before myself having built a diamond with Thuram as RB and Gerrard at RCM, but at least then there was a fair bit more footage supporting Thuram's fit as the sole width provider. And for all his general vileness Gerrard was a properly credible option as a width provider from that position, more so than Vidal.

I'm still on the fence here given that you've managed to cram an obscene amount of individual talent into the budget constraint, but the balance just doesn't look quite right to me in the attacking phase (out of possession it looks tough to break down however).

It's not like Bergomi is the sole width provider, I've tried to explain numerous times. I guess many people just see a RB with defensive stature and just scratch the whole premise. Bergomi is a defender that played all across the line, and very comfortable on the ball - was sweeper in his later years. Vidal is also someone who has played in numerous roles, including filling in as side midfielder on the right side.

I mean this is his heat map against Milan for example:

Even in his later years he played like a right midfielder for Barca:

I could've filled in a bog standard attacking RB on that side, that didn't have the balanced quality of Bergomi, but it wouldn't make the team better or IMO easier to break Physio's team down.

It's kinda frustrating because I've seen much more focus on that you only need more attacking full backs to break that team down, yet most of the voters are missing the gulf of quality (at least for me) when it comes to the spine. I mean Rivera/MvB/Eusebio is much more likely to score and get through Blanc/Perfumo shielded by later Scholes and Stielike, rather than on the opposite side of the pitch.

At the same time I really can't see Physio winning the flanks either, as considering he has two defensive full backs that won't really give him advantage against their counterparts..

Anyhow I'm done, as from experience when it's always harder to sell a more fluid formation with players in multiple roles, rather than bog standard specialists in their positions

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Vidal is also someone who has played in numerous roles, including filling in as side midfielder on the right side

I didn't comment on the Davids and Vidal providing width aspect yesterday to not sound very critical, but it is just a stop gap measure to make the team functional and reduces its effectiveness quite a bit.

The point of the diamond formation is to have extra bodies in midfield and dominate proceedings. If one of your side midfielders has to keep moving wide, that really takes away the most important aspect of the diamond.

That is why good attacking wingbacks are absolutely needed to make the diamond work really well.

If you do go through, Bergomi need to go to CB and a proper attacking RB is needed.

If you want to make the team ideal and reach further forward in the draft say semis or final, even Irwin needs replacement (even though functional as I said yesterday)

 

[Enigma_87]

I didn't comment on the Davids and Vidal providing width aspect yesterday to not sound very critical, but it is just a stop gap measure to make the team functional and reduces its effectiveness quite a bit.

The point of the diamond formation is to have extra bodies in midfield and dominate proceedings. If one of your side midfielders has to keep moving wide, that really takes away the most important aspect of the diamond.

That is why good attacking wingbacks are absolutely needed to make the diamond work really well.

If you do go through, Bergomi need to go to CB and a proper attacking RB is needed.

If you want to make the team ideal and reach further forward in the draft say semis or final, even Irwin needs replacement (even though functional as I said yesterday)

There are numerous examples of teams that employed diamond formation with balanced full backs and not someone like Conti ahead of them.

Juve was one:

With Vidal occupying the same supporting role against BVB

having Lichtsteiner and Evra as full backs, who are hardly better or more productive than Irwin/Bergomi from the side.

I'm not saying that it's perfect diamond here. Sure I won't say no to Facchetti and Cafu on either side, but IMO it is enough to win this game in question, especially considering the superiority we have in the middle of the park against Physio and both forwards should have the upper hand against Blanc and Perfumo.

At the end of the day there is much bigger gulf in quality in the individuals that would decide the game and their counterparts which is what I'm trying to elaborate.

On the other side I don't really see any advantage Physio might have on the flanks, considering he hardly possesses the most aggressive full backs, either and he doesn't want to control the midfield either way - just sit back and go on counter.

If we score first and pull back to play on counter to me it's game over with the slower Blanc/Perfumo and Stielike DLP Scholes in the middle.