Auction Draft: Round 1 - Moby vs. EAP

[Indnyc]

Moby vs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Edgar Allan Pillow

vs.

Team Moby

The team is playing the diamond formation, fielding a monster midfield unit, GOAT level fullbacks which is essential for this formation and a deadly duo up front.

In Summary, the back 4 is self explanatory with Vasovic and Montero being a great sweeper-stopper combo, Santos and Alberto dominating their respective flanks on both ends. In midfield, Bozsik plays as the deep lying playmaker - one of the greatest ever long range passers, majestic with the ball at his feet. Flanking him are two tireless box to box midfielders in Essien and Masopust. The Bison will be the more defensive minded CM while Masopust will bring his tremendous forward running and slalom runs waltzing past the incoming crowd as well as the mass amount of energy and stamina in the middle. Capping it off is Platini, the ideal #10 for this setup being well versed in counter attacking football and a proven record in midfield 4s. Up front is the duo of Puskas and Fontaine, the former being second to none in the role he has here, roaming all around the penalty area and going for goal as and when the chances fall his way. With Fontaine being the ultimate poacher to finish off the chances created by the likes of Bozsik, Platini and Puskas.

Few key points:

• The midfield unit is incredibly balanced with a great blend of creativity, flair, passing and goalscoring, while all 4 of them being workhorses off the ball and providing a massive shield for the defense. We will easily dominate the midfield in this game and defensively, the opposition wouldn't be able to cope with the dynamism and the energy, along with a plethora of goals to boot.
• The two fullbacks will have the freedom to dominate their respective flanks, bringing in ideal balance both at the back and going forward. Both are elite passers and playmakers in their own right and would be devastating providing the service to the forward line.
• Masopust and Essien being excellent in going wide - both in defense and in attack. They will be excellent in covering for either fullback or providing support to them when needed, while Masopust in particular can provide excellent width if needed and stretch the opposition.
• The front trio reeks of massive goalscoring potential. I don't need to post numbers to show the goal threat that is brought to the pitch between Platini, Puskas and Fontaine in addition to their creative side, particularly for Puskas and Platini. The two bring an dangerous combination of ability to score themselves as well as create for others at a very high level. Puskas partnered with goalscoring #10s like Di Stefano excellently, and will make a tremendous partnership with Platini.
• Bozsik and Puskas formed iconic partnerships both for Hungary and Honved and the proven chemistry would be a massive bonus here. Bozsik's magical delivery from deep with Puskas, Fontaine and Platini running towards goal would be a brilliant weapon to kickstart counters and hurt the opposition before they can realise.
• Montero being adept as a left back and being able to provide cover on that flank brings additional flexibility and allows more freedom for the fullback to express himself.

Team Edgar Allan Pillow

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Tactics: Balanced approach with quick flanks and creativity through the middle.

The goal is manned by Carrizo, one of the early proponents of sweeper-keeper, he's comfortable stepping out of his line to close gaps and able to initiate quick counters with his goal kicks. The defence is flanked by two balanced fullbacks who are capable of manning the flank all on their own. Defensively astute with good attacking output, they will ably support the wingers. Picchi and Kohler provide a nice balance between physicality and ball playing ability and are both intelligent and well rounded top class center backs.

Stiles has been the pivot of both United and England teams and proven partnership with Charlton. Not just a hardman, but a warrior with sense of threat and ability to snuff it out. Alonso is a complete DLP, defensively sound and able to dictate play and run the game from the deep. A complete and complimentary midfield duo that'll serve as shield for the defence and base for the attack.

Gento-Matthews is nearly as good as it gets on the flanks. I'd rate only Garrincha and Best ahead of these two on their respective flanks. Pace, power, creativity they have it all. Lethal combination. And we have none other than the great Bobby Charlton organizing the attack. A ultimate all action attacking midfielder with workrate, scoring ability and creative vision masterminds the attack. To cap it off, none other the Denis Law, the spearhead of United Trinity to lead the line.

 

[Indnyc]

Good luck @Moby @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Tough call. Moby stronger in center vs Pillow stronger on the flanks.

 

[harms]

Fantastic teams.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I was shaking my head when drawn against you @Moby tough luck to whoever goes out this round. I reckon both team are good enough for next round. Just bad roll of the dice imo.

 

[Physiocrat]

First impressions. I'm not sure Nilton and C.Alberto are the best full-backs for a diamond. They both played behind wingers for most of there careers. The left side is less of a problem as Puskas and Masopust can drift left but just having Essien drifting right could be a problem. Apart from that it is an excellent diamond.

EAP's front four is excellent but lacks a little goal threat in comparison to Moby's. That said wingers could be a diamonds bete noire. In addition there seems a distinct lack of dynamism with Nobby and Xabi which means Bobby is going to have to do a lot of work.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Anyway off to nitpicking my opponents team.

Moby's fullback flaws - Not the best fit for this formation
- Nilton is unfortunately facing one of the two wingers who gave him a torrid time in real life. Matthews is definitely the superior winger and he's ably assisted by Sagnol here. I don't see Nilton being able to hold the flank on his own. To make things worse, he only has the support of the worst centreback on the pitch in Montero.
- Carlos Alberto is more likely to move into midfield and playmake from there. I don't see him as a winger able to provide width needed for a diamond or even stretch my defence. Again with Gento hovering there, I don't really see the support in this flank and Benarrivo/Gento will own this flank too.

Midfield Imbalance - Too many cooks who'd fight for ball time.
- Not really sure what Masopust brings to the table. He's specialist in bringing balls in from the deep with his slalom runs, but with Platini's all action style and Bozsik's passing they have that covered to make Masopust redundant. It is not the game that will bring the best in Masopust. I also don't see him compatible with another playmaker in Bozsik.
- Over Reliance on Essien. Masopust has a DM in Pluskal and Bozsik had Zakarias. Here both have to rely on Essien to do the dirty job on the field and it's just too much to ask for even for The Bison.
- Also with Bozsik, Maspoust, Platini and to an extent Puskas...way too many players who prefer to operate centrally causing lot of redundancies. Rather than stretching my defence, they'll just fight for a already congested space in front of my 2 excellent DMs.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

EAP's front four is excellent but lacks a little goal threat in comparison to Moby's. That said wingers could be a diamonds bete noire. In addition there seems a distinct lack of dynamism with Nobby and Xabi which means Bobby is going to have to do a lot of work.

Fair enough, but if you look at my attack vs his defence you'll see I have a advantage (than vice versa). Montero is the weakest CB on the pitch and he's anyway dragged to support Nilton against Matthews who gave him torrid tim when they actually played against each other. Perfect for Law to exploit and score.

Picchi-Kohler is a monstrous and better CB duo than Moby's. Also with really nobody to test my fullbacks, they'll also add further to my defensive strengths. Has has more attackers, but as I said they are all central and I have a rock solid defence there.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I was shaking my head when drawn against you @Moby tough luck to whoever goes out this round. I reckon both team are good enough for next round. Just bad roll of the dice imo.

Aye. First thing that came to mind seeing the teams.

 

[Physiocrat]

Fair enough, but if you look at my attack vs his defence you'll see I have a advantage (than vice versa). Montero is the weakest CB on the pitch and he's anyway dragged to support Nilton against Matthews who gave him torrid tim when they actually played against each other. Perfect for Law to exploit and score.

Picchi-Kohler is a monstrous and better CB duo than Moby's. Also with really nobody to test my fullbacks, they'll also add further to my defensive strengths. Has has more attackers, but as I said they are all central and I have a rock solid defence there.

That's fair.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It’s harder to make a decision when he teams have different formations.
First glance I prefer moby’ team, however the discussion as highlighted points that go against him.

I’ll wait incase there’s more discussions or vids before I vote.

 

[Himannv]

I liked the look of the diamond but the discussion stopped me from voting for it. Some good points raised against it and Matthews vs Nilton is an unfortunate matchup for the fullback.

 

[Enigma_87]

First impressions. I'm not sure Nilton and C.Alberto are the best full-backs for a diamond. They both played behind wingers for most of there careers. The left side is less of a problem as Puskas and Masopust can drift left but just having Essien drifting right could be a problem. Apart from that it is an excellent diamond.

EAP's front four is excellent but lacks a little goal threat in comparison to Moby's. That said wingers could be a diamonds bete noire. In addition there seems a distinct lack of dynamism with Nobby and Xabi which means Bobby is going to have to do a lot of work.

Disagree on the full backs criticism obviously. You can make a case for Djalma in a diamond, but I totally buy Nilton in one. And Carlos Alberto was even more attacking due to the era. They played with wingers of course, but that doesn't mean they won't be able to man their flanks in a diamond. GOAT full backs as well.

 

[Physiocrat]

Disagree on the full backs criticism obviously. You can make a case for Djalma in a diamond, but I totally buy Nilton in one. And Carlos Alberto was even more attacking due to the era. They played with wingers of course, but that doesn't mean they won't be able to man their flanks in a diamond. GOAT full backs as well.

The role of full-backs in a diamond (unless you have someone very adept out wide at LCM/RCM) is verging on wing-back requirements. Whilst neither were Schellinger they aren't Roberto Carlos either; there's probably more evidence that Maldini got forward more than both of them. GOATs they maybe but taking them from mountain and putting them on the plain is hardly going to get them at their most GOATy.

I suppose the question is if you assigned them a more attacking role how would they do? This is very difficult to answer especially because of the stamina required in a wingish back position.

 

[Himannv]

Disagree on the full backs criticism obviously. You can make a case for Djalma in a diamond, but I totally buy Nilton in one. And Carlos Alberto was even more attacking due to the era. They played with wingers of course, but that doesn't mean they won't be able to man their flanks in a diamond. GOAT full backs as well.

I agree with this. I don't think Nilton and Carlos Alberto are out of place at all in this sort of setup. The problem I see though is Matthews being up against Nilton on a flank with only Masopust and Montero near enough to offer support. I don't think Masopust helps him much and as has been pointed out, Montero is indeed a comparatively weaker CB than the rest. Also Sagnol pushes up the pitch a bit and adds to the pressure.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

The role of full-backs in a diamond (unless you have someone very adept out wide at LCM/RCM) is verging on wing-back requirements. Whilst neither were Schellinger they aren't Roberto Carlos either; there's probably more evidence that Maldini got forward more than both of them. GOATs they maybe but taking them from mountain and putting them on the plain is hardly going to get them at their most GOATy.

I suppose the question is if you assigned them a more attacking role how would they do? This is very difficult to answer especially because of the stamina required in a wingish back position.

What balances that out for me is that Moby's front 3 with Masopust/Essien support is so strong in the center Pillow is going to need his own full backs to help out defensively a lot. I don't think either Sagnol or Bennarivo are going get in the best attacking positions much if at all because EAP's two CB and DM are going to need a lot of help.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

What balances that out for me is that Moby's front 3 with Masopust/Essien support is so strong in the center Pillow is going to need his own full backs to help out defensively a lot. I don't think either Sagnol or Bennarivo are going get in the best attacking positions much if at all because EAP's two CB and DM are going to need a lot of help.

Have to disagree as you none of them will stretch the defence. They will play in front of a packed midfield where I have 4 super solid defensive players. Individually Moby has excellent players, but the dynamics are more overlapping than complementary to each other.

When I have the ball, Benarrivo and Sagnol have all the freedom to push up due to lack of players Moby has who can exploit spaces behind. On the flip side every time Nilton or Carlos ventures up, they have GOAT wingers who can exploit in a quick counter. I'd say Nilton and Carlos will be pegged back mostly since I have 2 vs 1 advantage on the flanks and a diamond without fullback width is not really a effective formation at all.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The role of full-backs in a diamond (unless you have someone very adept out wide at LCM/RCM) is verging on wing-back requirements. Whilst neither were Schellinger they aren't Roberto Carlos either; there's probably more evidence that Maldini got forward more than both of them. GOATs they maybe but taking them from mountain and putting them on the plain is hardly going to get them at their most GOATy.

I suppose the question is if you assigned them a more attacking role how would they do? This is very difficult to answer especially because of the stamina required in a wingish back position.

More aspects to it too. For example, people won't appreciate Junior in a diamond whereas Nilton himself was right footed and more of a right footed playmaker from deep rather than an overlapper.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I agree with this. I don't think Nilton and Carlos Alberto are out of place at all in this sort of setup. The problem I see though is Matthews being up against Nilton on a flank with only Masopust and Montero near enough to offer support. I don't think Masopust helps him much and as has been pointed out, Montero is indeed a comparatively weaker CB than the rest. Also Sagnol pushes up the pitch a bit and adds to the pressure.

Nilton will definitely need help against Matthews and if you add Sagnol, there is absolutely no way he's providing the width needed for the diamond.

And @Enigma_87 having watched Carlos Alberto, I'd say a big chunk of his game is playmaking from the deep. His "attacking" ability is his passing ability from the deep and his runs towards the midfield/edge of box. He certainly has ability to provide overlapping width, but that has only been a minor % of his game. Using him as a touchline hugging fullback (which is what a diamond needs) is not really him at his peak.

 

[Physiocrat]

More aspects to it too. For example, people won't appreciate Junior in a diamond whereas Nilton himself was right footed and more of a right footed playmaker from deep rather than an overlapper.

Indeed. I just mentioned stamina because I have rarely seen it come up but it is clearly an issue for attacking full-backs. Anyone who has ever played there will tell you how hard work it is.

 

[Himannv]

@Edgar Allan Pillow what's your plan on stopping Masopust and Platini? It's not clear who deals with these two and I feel they'll probably play their way through the middle.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow what's your plan on stopping Masopust and Platini? It's not clear who deals with these two and I feel they'll probably play their way through the middle.

As I said before, there are too many cooks in the middle with overlapping skill sets. Platini is all action AM who prefers to drop deep and engage in buildup and Masopust/Bozsik are also specialists in pretty much same thing...building from deep.

There is no point man marking anyone in a diamond. We are in zonal marking with one of Alonso/Stiles moving up to cut off lanes while other covers the through balls. When out of possession, our fullbacks will not have anyone troubling them, so they will form a compact defensive line cutting off space and helping out the CB's.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm sure many have seen this before...Nilton is trouble here. Between Matthews and Sagnol, I don't really see Nilton ventiring up and whenever he does Matthews will exploit and roast Montero in space left behind. Alonso, Charlton and even Sagnol are excellant crossers and able to spring open a lightning counter.

 

[Ecstatic]

Another good game.

This time, I have found the criteria to take a decision.

I will explain my vote after Utd-PSG

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Sorry lads but that’s simply too close to call and can’t vote on this one.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Have to disagree as you none of them will stretch the defence. They will play in front of a packed midfield where I have 4 super solid defensive players. Individually Moby has excellent players, but the dynamics are more overlapping than complementary to each other.

When I have the ball, Benarrivo and Sagnol have all the freedom to push up due to lack of players Moby has who can exploit spaces behind. On the flip side every time Nilton or Carlos ventures up, they have GOAT wingers who can exploit in a quick counter. I'd say Nilton and Carlos will be pegged back mostly since I have 2 vs 1 advantage on the flanks and a diamond without fullback width is not really a effective formation at all.

The question is whether your two CB can handle Fontaine and Puskas without help. I simply don't think they can so you need help from somewhere, the FBs being ideal to helping out. I definitely don't think you should have them bombing up the pitch leaving Puskas and Fontaine in a 2v2 ya know?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The question is whether your two CB can handle Fontaine and Puskas without help. I simply don't think they can so you need help from somewhere, the FBs being ideal to helping out. I definitely don't think you should have them bombing up the pitch leaving Puskas and Fontaine in a 2v2 ya know?

Sagnol and Benarrivo have a proven track record of providing width without being a defensive liability. In a normal match the fullback who has the ball will push up whilst the other will stay in supporting role. Anyway I have wingers ahead and fullbacks are only in a supporting role. So a scenario where both Sagol and Benarrivo getting caught high up at same time is pretty unrealistic imo.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Sagnol and Benarrivo have a proven track record of providing width without being a defensive liability. In a normal match the fullback who has the ball will push up whilst the other will stay in supporting role. Anyway I have wingers ahead and fullbacks are only in a supporting role. So a scenario where both Sagol and Benarrivo getting caught high up at same time is pretty unrealistic imo.

The way I see this tactical matchup is one that leads to an open game probably. If you concentrate too much on 2v1 on the flanks you leave the center too open for Fontaine and Puskas. Vice versa for Moby. He can't just overload the center without worry about Gento and Matthews breaking down the flanks.

So its a match I see being a 2-2/3-3 type of affair because I see both sides scoring a few.

 

[Enigma_87]

Nilton will definitely need help against Matthews and if you add Sagnol, there is absolutely no way he's providing the width needed for the diamond.

And @Enigma_87 having watched Carlos Alberto, I'd say a big chunk of his game is playmaking from the deep. His "attacking" ability is his passing ability from the deep and his runs towards the midfield/edge of box. He certainly has ability to provide overlapping width, but that has only been a minor % of his game. Using him as a touchline hugging fullback (which is what a diamond needs) is not really him at his peak.

I'm a big fan of Carlos Alberto myself mate. The way I see it is that he was more well build, tall and lanky type of full back. He was a bit like Cafu in the way he moved up and down the field. Had abundance of stamina (not Cafu level of course but who is), and his game was well equipped for playing as a wing back. He scored 64 goals in his career at club level and 8 for Brazil. More than decent output and had a good shot and cross on him as well. Disagree on being a minor thing too. He is intelligent enough to offer both the width in attack and the playmaking option from deep. It's not always the case either or, look at Krol for example.

A full back in a diamond also doesn't have to hug the touchline all the time. There are different aspects of the game and phases which need various talents. And CAT, despite the look that he lacks agility a bit, has them...

 

[Himannv]

Have no idea who to vote for so I'm not voting for anyone.

 

[Gio]

Lovely diamond from Moby. Can see Masopust causing Alonso all sorts of problems - Xabi tends to just hack anyone down who can dribble past him. On the ball though, Alonso's ability to switch the play early will get EAP's wingers into dangerous one-on-one positions and they have the tools to get in behind and service Law attacking the six-yard box and Charlton dropping for cut-backs and scraps. Arguably EAP's weakest players here are the full-backs but they don't really get exposed and can support the men in front of them given the shape of the game.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Was more closer to voting EAP before calling it a draw.

Platini/Masopust/Bozsik on the ball against Stiles/Alonso seemed really overwhelming although Charlton helps. At least one of the midfield 2 probably needs an upgrade going ahead I guess.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good game @Moby hard luck. Is this your new style to not post in match threads?

Platini/Masopust/Bozsik on the ball against Stiles/Alonso seemed really overwhelming although Charlton helps. At least one of the midfield 2 probably needs an upgrade going ahead I guess.

They are actually my backup pair. Whom I really drafted for that position are Blanchflower and Mackay who are benched this match and will start next one.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

A full back in a diamond also doesn't have to hug the touchline all the time. There are different aspects of the game and phases which need various talents. And CAT, despite the look that he lacks agility a bit, has them...

Personally, I think that's the crucial bit. With so many playmakers already in middle a Breitner or Junior tupe fullback won't really add anything more than jumping into a already crowded area. A touchline hugging fullback offers alternative ways to carry the ball forward and is a outlet out wide in keeping possession.

 

[willhse456]

As others have said, I didn't vote as I thought it was too close to call. However I was leaning towards EAP as I think the diamond formation is a really difficult one to get right.

 

[Moby]

Good game @Moby hard luck. Is this your new style to not post in match threads?

Hey, really sorry man. No not at all, thought of diving into the discussion 4-5 times but really kept getting caught up with work. Thought most of it was self explanatory anyway as I had gone with a very standard setup with most players speaking for themselves. Still really sorry for the no-show.

Think the result is quite fair as you were probably the worst match up for me and had favourable duels in your favour like the Matthews-Nilton one as well as having top wingers stretching the diamond. The game would have been a good tactical battle overall but me not having wingers to target your fullbacks went in your favour as well.

Just thought of going with a diamond for a change, but nah, really don't like it everytime I have gone with it. The extra midfielder cannot compensate for the lack of width on paper, when in reality those CMs would usually heavily operate in wide areas, it isn't as apparent on paper and just becomes redundant at a point. Not a team I would remember much although I was lucky to get the players to fit well in it.

Really wanted to get Kocsis and have the Puskas-Kocsis duo up front with service from that midfield. But 70m for him would have disrupted the rest of the team.

You have an excellent team obviously and we were unlucky to draw each other initially. Good luck going forward!

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@Moby

On reflection of your team, I think if you want to get those players working in a diamond then you probably need to have two unbelievable fullbacks who are more than capable of providing width. Which you have. At times in the game your side could easily look like this;



So I don't think you really have a problem with width, especially given the MASSIVE gulf in the quality of both sides full backs. Nilton and C.A. would have strong games here and cause enough nuisance that your diamond would dominate that midfield battle where i cant see it ever being anything than a 4 on 3 or a 3 on 2 if we discount both teams attacking midfielder.

Still think this one is close, but on more reflection i probably would have gone with you here, you have better players and a system that would allow them all to function well. not saying EAP doesn't, but just look at the full backs on both sides.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

So I don't think you really have a problem with width, especially given the MASSIVE gulf in the quality of both sides full backs. Nilton and C.A. would have strong games here and cause enough nuisance

Nilton and CAT would be facing my wingers rather my fullbacks, right?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Nilton and CAT would be facing my wingers rather my fullbacks, right?

I mean in the offensive phase when moby has the ball. Stanley and Gento won’t do too much defensively and even if they do, you’re still outnumbered in midfield. So even if your wingers completely change their styles and man mark mobys full backs, they can simply walk up the pitch and continue to decrease the threat you would offer on the counter, with your wingers now further from goal.

Bottom line is my own opinion of a diamond is that it requires perfect full backs. Moby has them.

 

[Enigma_87]

I mean in the offensive phase when moby has the ball. Stanley and Gento won’t do too much defensively and even if they do, you’re still outnumbered in midfield. So even if your wingers completely change their styles and man mark mobys full backs, they can simply walk up the pitch and continue to decrease the threat you would offer on the counter, with your wingers now further from goal.

Bottom line is my own opinion of a diamond is that it requires perfect full backs. Moby has them.

Yup, same for me.

The only criticism is Montero in there at CB as Matthews/Law would definitely would give him torrid time to the extend he might go off at some point. But the rest of the diamond looks pretty good IMO.

Went with Moby due to the advantage through the middle. Don't trust Stiles and Alonso to do a very good job against Platini, Masopust and Puskas operating in that area...