Rioch favoured it too, didn't he? Anyway, Adams played plenty in it - that much is true.
Wouldn't call it his best role, though. For me, he was better as a plain old CB in a plain old four.
Auction-Trade Madness Draft - QF: Enigma/TRV vs Isotope
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Wouldn't call it his best role, though. For me, he was better as a plain old CB in a plain old four.
Not exactly mate. Marcelo is really facing only Robben on that flank. Tassotti is a defensive minded full back who wasn't really a much support going forward. Robben had Lahm who is excellent going forward for Bayern so I don't see how that effect is amplified, especially since in a Barca side it's not only Alves but Messi, hence not really a good comparison..
Yeah, Netto was a natural fit and great midfielder, but Tigana is even better and gives even more defensive support to the side and steel in midfield.
We entertained the idea of replacing one of the CB's, but considering the quality of the three and the 50m pool (apart from Sammer), I'm not sure the upgrade would be that big for 30m + in order to get him.
He's a great defender tho, and with an attacking wing back in Marcelo we need a solid CB to protect the goal. The pace concern on that side I think is covered by Bratseth and Marcelo - two athletic and fast defenders, as we'll be defending in an unit most of the time.
And whilst being a bit of an orthodox set up, Iso's defensive line I think is lacking someone who can take the ball from the back. Netzer had Beckenbauer doing that job, but here he has 2 stoppers and 2 defensive full backs in Camacho and Tassotti - neither of who are well known for their work on the ball.
Just more on the creative play of the team, and why Enigma's defence need to defend deep.
Netzer's ability of pinpoint passing to on rushing speedy Ronaldinho and Robben.
(apologize for the offensive opening picture)
Netzer's ability of pinpoint passing to on rushing speedy Ronaldinho and Robben.
(apologize for the offensive opening picture)
Why do you assume that we'll be playing in a deep line? We're in a normal defensive line really not camping outside our box. I can see both sides sharing possession as you'd find a pretty special midfield to dominate Tigana/Tardelli/Rivellino midfield trio...
Also what is the plan in taking the ball out of defence? Even the keeper is a not reknown for starting attacks from the back?
Also, as a United fan, who honestly among you that prefer to have your team playing a back 5?
Mine and Enigma's might be equal (both teams have their own advantages and negatives), but then which one you prefer to watch and hopefully win?
Mine and Enigma's might be equal (both teams have their own advantages and negatives), but then which one you prefer to watch and hopefully win?
Well we've played negative football in a back four plenty of time, especially under Moyes, so if you go purely with the formation in mind it doesn't tell the whole picture in terms of playing attractive football.
When we consider flair we have 2 top dribblers in our team - Marcelo and Rivellino and one exciting forward in Villa whose link up play is often underrated. In your side you obviously have exciting players as well, but we aren't lacking flair - far from it.Two of our defenders in Moore and Bratseth are also very good on the ball, and same goes with Tardelli and Tigana, who also provide a solid base in midfield.
Going with back 5 suited our players more and play to our strengths. We could've switched to back 4 - but in this way with Marcelo - an excellent asset going forward and just Adams for example there we'd be far more vulnerable at the back.
Ah, didn't know that. Thanks.
We did consider it but the reason we went with how we went is because, we feel having Villa there, Rivelino can link-up well with him. They can interchange a bit as Villa was very good on the ball in terms of dribbling and passing. At Valencia, he played his best off another striker and he had the license to drop deep and link up with David Silva on that left zone. We are expecting something similar with Villa and Rivelino here.
Obviously, Silva played as a left sided midfielder/winger while Rivelino is playing more centrally here, but the idea is having someone like Rivelino allows Villa to drop deep and inter-change, thereby creating some chaos in Iso's backline. There would be instances where Villa would drag Cannavaro with him, thereby leaving Ruggeri in one-on-one situations against Muller which Muller would exploit.
Whats the issue with having Moore in a back-5, mate?
I know he didn't really play there for West Ham or England.
But that can't be the only reason why he can't play there. Because in drafts, you have to allow freedom and fluidity when it comes to tactics. Otherwise you're essentially making it very boring and one dimensional.
Now, if I played someone like say a John Terry as a sweeper in a back-5, I would understand the criticism and skepticism but Moore is possibly the greatest pure defender ever along with Baresi. In terms of defensive ability and skills, he is well equipped to thrive in this set-up.
Completely disagree there.
Netzer was a really good player but he is up against Tardelli and Tigana here. Two excellent midfielders with good defensive nous. Tigana was excellent at reading the game and intercepting while Tardelli was an excellent tackler and had an amazing engine in him.
Compared to say Bastian and Seedorf, two really good players but have played their best football when they have had a more defensive minded/aggressive midfielder alongside them. Davids and Gattuso in Seedorf's case. Van Bommel, Javi Martinez and Khedira in Bastian's case. I see Bastian struggling a lot dealing with Rivelino here.
Love the switch of Bratseth and Moore for this game, inspired.
For Isotope though, Ronaldinho and Robben are a hell of a wing pairing. I'm not seeing a whole lot of defensive resistance there for Robben to be frank. And that's not dissing Adams per se, it's just the big commanding centre-half type will always be vulnerable to the sheer pace and quick feet of Robben.
For Isotope though, Ronaldinho and Robben are a hell of a wing pairing. I'm not seeing a whole lot of defensive resistance there for Robben to be frank. And that's not dissing Adams per se, it's just the big commanding centre-half type will always be vulnerable to the sheer pace and quick feet of Robben.
Think it was a back 3 in 1998. Hoddle preferred that as it allowed a sweeper and a third central midfielder, particularly having been a victim of 4-4-2 straightjackets for much of his own career.
Agree with this.
Marcelo will help Adams out. And, when Marcelo has overlapped we will have Tigana there to ensure Robben doesn't get a free run at Adams in one-on-one situations.
Disagree there, bro.
Having Cristiano ahead of him certainly helps but Marcelo doesn't really need Cristiano to create. He isn't your typical wing-back who overlaps when he has space to run at. Marcelo is an excellent dribbler and a very good passer. He is one of the best play-makers in that Madrid squad and one of the best in the world when it comes to creating from the flanks. His close control combined with his passing and crossing gives Madrid an extra dimension in attack. Cristiano in the last 3-4 years has more or less been playing as a poacher. Its Marcelo who has been the creative outlet for Madrid in that meantime.
Here's Marcelo against Robben and Bayern Munich last season:-
One of the best individual displays by a left back ever.
One of the best individual displays by a left back ever.
Thought it was a back 3 with Neville Campbell Adams, with Anderton and Le Saux as wing backs was it not?
Hehe - ultra cheap shot. I like it.
But seriously - we've been dogshit in a bog standard (for the current era) 4-2-3-1 more times than I care to remember during the last few years.
The fact that we've been largely crap using it, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the formation.
Seaman
Neville---Adams---Campbell
Anderton------------------------------------Le Saux
Beckham-----Ince
Scholes
Shearer-----Owen
Something like that.
ETA
Compare the names on that team sheet to what England's likely to field this summer...Jaysus. Becks n' Scholes versus the mighty Hendo and Who Ever.
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He did, I try to forget the Rioch era myself, it was a shambles (although currently it feels almost as bad tbh)
I'd agree Adams best is in a back-4 but as he played some of his most important matches in a back-3 , like winning the title at Anfield in '89 I wouldn't say he loses any ability in that system as CB. David O'Leary was the SW there btw so I'd say Adams playing sweeper wouldn't be at his best but he is proven as one of the side CBs at his highest level.
You're right. It seemed like a back four in a way, with Garry Neville there, and Anderton as wing back?
Yeh. Back 5 is widely working if the libero contributing to the midfield control, though (which is not in this case); with the like of Summer and Beckenbauer. Otherwise, it's just a bog standard of team prioritizing defending first and foremost.
Thank you, sir. Just another clips of what Robben could do with his pace, when the supply is good enough (which is where Netzer is capable of).:
I do think this would cause Adams problems as when he played CB in a back 5 for Arsenal it was a more defensive back 5 than with LWB like Marcelo. Winterburn was the LB for Arsenal and he was still more a LB than attacking wing back. I think both Adams and Moore need help with their wingbacks to handle Ronaldinho and Robben
Yes of course both will provide support.
Marcelo has a pretty good record agains Bayern which seems to be overlooked and also we have big advantage with De Gea on goal instead of Rossi.
Sure there will be openings here and there but Muller will also get plenty of joy and with all the talk about our defensive line.
For all the talk about our defence I don't find Iso's particularly complimenting especially when it comes to taking the ball out of the defence and I'm not sure what's the plan there? Neither of his defenders are particularly good at it and there is no DLP either..
Really can't get my head around of people prefer a boring defensive 5-3-2 team, against exciting 4-3-3. It's not like both team are world apart in quality either. You guys deserve to support that kind of team, I guess.
Anyway, my last attempt on coming back from behind. Can this team score? they always score. Except when they don't score.
Change of tactic, please @Edgar Allan Pillow
Change of tactic, please @Edgar Allan Pillow
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Good game @Isotope .
You had a great front 6 and we expected to be a tough game, especially with all that talent in your ranks..
You had a great front 6 and we expected to be a tough game, especially with all that talent in your ranks..
Good Game, @Isotope .
Like Enigma said, you had a great team. We knew it would be a tough game. Hard Luck.
Like Enigma said, you had a great team. We knew it would be a tough game. Hard Luck.
That's 2 games in a row that I haven't been able to make a decision. Odd.