Back to being an attacking team.

[UnofficialDevil]

If we do sign Sancho and keep Pogba, we will have a team with world class players including, De gea, Maquire, Pogba, Fernandes, Sancho, Rashford, thats well over 400m worth of players not including Fred Martial Wan Scot and our young talent.There should be no more 5 defenders counter attacking football anymore, not against teams like City or Liverpool. We should go back to being an attacking side playing football thats a joy to watch the way we used to.
Even Ole said it we he took over , "a vibrant attacking approach the way Man United are supposed to play”.
No more 5 defenders counter attacking.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

All those players are world class?

We played 5 defenders counter attacking football before?

Anyway having Ole, it's clear that we're back to a more "Open attacking football" which is refreshing and generally more fun to see and support, than the previous "catapult", "haphazard" and "safety first" football approaches.

 

[Brightonian]

When did counter-attacking and attacking football become mutually exclusive? Counter-attacking and possession-centric football are opposites. Both can be anywhere on a scale from defensive (see LVG's possession or Mourinho's counter-punching) to attacking (Solskjaer has had us play a variety of different attack-minded approach since he took charge).

Whether we've been playing well or badly we've broadly played attack-minded football under Ole. Obviously our resources to do that are better now than they were when Pogba was injured, Rashford was injured and Bruno hadn't arrived yet. If/when we can sign Sancho, we'll be even more formidable. But the intent has been there from day one.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

What is your agenda against counter attacking football? Under SAF we were recognized as the masters of it. It's the perfect way to crack open tiki-taka or gegenpress. Our best and biggest victories under Ole have been with sumptuous counter attacking football.

How would you like us to play? Crowd men in the box and play Moyes-esque crossing tactics? Van Gaal era monotonous possession control? How are you meant to play attacking football if you don't allow the opposition to open up??

I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

 

[InterFan1998]

Counter attacking football is great when you have the team to execute it.

Also I don't think any of Bruno or Maguire are world class. Especially as hardly any defender today are world class. Agree on De Gea and Pogba though.

 

[roonster09]

Playing 5 defenders doesn't mean it's defensive football, also playing 4-2-3-1 with 4-5 attackers doesn't mean it's attacking football. Football is all about finding right balance and covering weakness of the team and play to our strengths.

 

[Hound Dog]

Counter attacking football is great when you have the team to execute it.

Also I don't think any of Bruno or Maguire are world class. Especially as hardly any defender today are world class. Agree on De Gea and Pogba though.

De Geaa has not been world class for nearly two years now.

 

[Greck]

What is your agenda against counter attacking football? Under SAF we were recognized as the masters of it. It's the perfect way to crack open tiki-taka or gegenpress. Our best and biggest victories under Ole have been with sumptuous counter attacking football.

How would you like us to play? Crowd men in the box and play Moyes-esque crossing tactics? Van Gaal era monotonous possession control? How are you meant to play attacking football if you don't allow the opposition to open up??

I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

Under SAF we were masters of both attacking and counter attacking. Teams came to old Trafford to sit in their box for 90 minutes and we would dispatch them with ease regardless. You almost speak like sitting back is the only way to crack a defence. Every decent team eventually runs into a phase where defences are scared of attacking and sit back, the better teams still break defences every week without needing to concede possession to counter. We need to be capable at both or we might as well just have kept Jose if we were okay sitting back against everyone

 

[Kag]

Still bleating on about games we won convincingly. What a bore.

Our football is more positive now than it has been at any point since Ferguson retired.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

the better teams still break defences every week without needing to concede possession to counter

They don't though. They really don't. This is why 'the better teams' don't go unbeaten all season. This is why the Barcas, the Bayerns and the Liverpools slip up to the Levantes, the Paderborns and the Watfords. To beat a low block you have to rely on individual magic or a 6ft 5 target man getting on the end of crosses, which most 'attacking' teams don't have. The idea that we've been defensive in big games is tactically naive bordering on plain false. No doubt the OP in this thread prefers to see 'attacking' players like Mata, Pereira or Lingard play in the big games rather than 'defensive' players like Williams at left wing despite the detrimental to the team, tactics and performance.

 

[Canagel]

If we do sign Sancho and keep Pogba, we will have a team with world class players including, De gea, Maquire, Pogba, Fernandes, Sancho, Rashford, thats well over 400m worth of players not including Fred Martial Wan Scot and our young talent.There should be no more 5 defenders counter attacking football anymore, not against teams like City or Liverpool. We should go back to being an attacking side playing football thats a joy to watch the way we used to.
Even Ole said it we he took over , "a vibrant attacking approach the way Man United are supposed to play”.
No more 5 defenders counter attacking.

Nah. Good players but not world class players. If we already have 5 and 6 World class players we would be a CL favorite which is clearly not the case

 

[Bilbo]

I never really understood why counter attacking football is deemed so unsexy these days. With the pace that we have it would be stupid NOT to try to engineer situations where we can use that to our advantage.

 

[adexkola]

Under SAF we were masters of both attacking and counter attacking. Teams came to old Trafford to sit in their box for 90 minutes and we would dispatch them with ease regardless. You almost speak like sitting back is the only way to crack a defence. Every decent team eventually runs into a phase where defences are scared of attacking and sit back, the better teams still break defences every week without needing to concede possession to counter. We need to be capable at both or we might as well just have kept Jose if we were okay sitting back against everyone

Louder for those in the back

There's nothing wrong with counterattacking. The best teams have to have more in their locker than waiting for their opponents to make a mistake, because eventually savvy teams just bring the bus looking to leave with a point or jammy win.

Liverpool and City are both excellent on the break, but when you park the bus or make things difficult they are very good (or excellent, in City's position) at fashioning chances. For us to be considered an excellent attacking team, we can't just be excellent at counter attacking. That just makes us a great Mourinho team (runs away)

 

[adexkola]

They don't though. They really don't. This is why 'the better teams' don't go unbeaten all season. This is why the Barcas, the Bayerns and the Liverpools slip up to the Levantes, the Paderborns and the Watfords. To beat a low block you have to rely on individual magic or a 6ft 5 target man getting on the end of crosses, which most 'attacking' teams don't have. The idea that we've been defensive in big games is tactically naive bordering on plain false. No doubt the OP in this thread prefers to see 'attacking' players like Mata, Pereira or Lingard play in the big games rather than 'defensive' players like Williams at left wing despite the detrimental to the team, tactics and performance.

Liverpool and City have won/led leagues because of their ability to break down stubborn defenses looking to get a jammy win/point. And no, you don't have to rely on individual magic or a 6' 5'' target man. How many times have City scored the "roll the ball across the 6 yard box for a tap in goal" against a low block? What 6' 5" target man does Liverpool have?

The OP has a valid point. You cannot amass all this talent and just rely on the break to create your attacking chances because eventually they dry up and you're expected to take the initiative to the opposition. It doesn't have to be tiki-taka but at this point it will require a lot of work on the training ground. And that's where you see excellent managers shine.

One last thing, I don't know why the first go to when people think about SAF is counter-attacking... His best teams were just as good (if not better) at throwing the kitchen sink at opponents parking the bus.

 

[crossy1686]

If we do sign Sancho and keep Pogba, we will have a team with world class players including, De gea, Maquire, Pogba, Fernandes, Sancho, Rashford, thats well over 400m worth of players not including Fred Martial Wan Scot and our young talent.There should be no more 5 defenders counter attacking football anymore, not against teams like City or Liverpool. We should go back to being an attacking side playing football thats a joy to watch the way we used to.
Even Ole said it we he took over , "a vibrant attacking approach the way Man United are supposed to play”.
No more 5 defenders counter attacking.

But...we won those games? Are you suggesting we stop exploiting an opponents weakness because you perceive it to be a negative approach and being able to say "We played possession football" is some sort of moral victory despite losing the game to teams that do that better than us?

I'm really confused because I vividly remember Ferguson saying in a pre match interview on a pre season tour that United were going to be MORE counter attacking in the coming season, despite already being a pretty decent counter attacking team. Rooney himself even states that:

"People talk about our team – especially in relation to Manchester United now – and say it was attack, attack, attack. But we actually weren't," he said.

“It wasn't all 'let's just go out and attack' it was a bit more calculated against certain opponents which brought the best out of myself.

“We had the team built to hit teams on the break and we were devastating at it.”

People really need to get over this myth. We've always been a counter attacking side and long may it continue. It doesn't matter how many we play at the back, all that matters is how we get forward when we win possession. Speed kills.

 

[ravelston]

Exactly

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We started playing very much attacking football under Ole. It changed with time and we turned more defensive. Let us see if we get back to more attacking football.

 

[yan man utd]

I was just reminding myself some of our great goals of the golden Fergie days and they are not mainly of the counter attacking type. They were all kinds of goals, most of them created from midfield. Teams would sit back and inevitably we had to play an intelligent possession based but attacking/ aggressive type of football to get the first goal. There are many instances of brilliant combination play or simply individual brilliance that would put us ahead without once being defensive. It’s worth pointing out that sometimes the opposition had a go at the start and we would have to defend resolutely.

However once we got the first goal the other team would naturally have to come at us which meant many of the goals could be seen as counterattacks. We need to be able to keep the ball and attack and get the first goal as often as possible in my opinion...

 

[adexkola]

I was just reminding myself some of our great goals of the golden Fergie days and they are not mainly of the counter attacking type. They were all kinds of goals, most of them created from midfield. Teams would sit back and inevitably we had to play an intelligent possession based but attacking/ aggressive type of football to get the first goal. There are many instances of brilliant combination play or simply individual brilliance that would put us ahead without once being defensive. It’s worth pointing out that sometimes the opposition had a go at the start and we would have to defend resolutely.

However once we got the first goal the other team would naturally have to come at us which meant many of the goals could be seen as counterattacks. We need to be able to keep the ball and attack and get the first goal as often as possible in my opinion...

Spot on.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Liverpool and City have won/led leagues because of their ability to break down stubborn defenses looking to get a jammy win/point. And no, you don't have to rely on individual magic or a 6' 5'' target man. How many times have City scored the "roll the ball across the 6 yard box for a tap in goal" against a low block? What 6' 5" target man does Liverpool have?

The OP has a valid point. You cannot amass all this talent and just rely on the break to create your attacking chances because eventually they dry up and you're expected to take the initiative to the opposition. It doesn't have to be tiki-taka but at this point it will require a lot of work on the training ground. And that's where you see excellent managers shine.

One last thing, I don't know why the first go to when people think about SAF is counter-attacking... His best teams were just as good (if not better) at throwing the kitchen sink at opponents parking the bus.

Don't know why you're laughing, I assume it's because you didn't read my post properly. You also don't seem to have read the OP as you directly contradict his better players=attack, attack, attack hypothesis.

You also bringing up Liverpool and City who play a high press (a tactic designed to increase the quantity and quality of counter attacks) shows how muddled your post is. You've gone in with some emojis and an attitude and come out agreeing with everyone calling the OP naive. Well done I guess?

 

[hmchan]

Not sure if Ole meant to set up to play counter attack yesterday but there was no reason to deploy a back 5. Seems that he still likes to switch the formation in big games despite we have been running so smoothly with our 4-2-3-1.

 

[Rash Decision]

Nothing wrong with counterattacking, but surely there's something lacking if counterattacking is all we're good at.

Manchester United should aspire to be a team that is well-versed in different attacking approaches, allowing us to attack in a wide variety of situations on the pitch. Sit back and defend? We'll take the ball and carve you open. Press us aggressively? We'll pass around and through you to score. Attack us from the start? We'll exploit the openings you leave behind with a lightning counterattack.

Basically we should be perfect.