Barcelona: Back from the brink … levers

JPRouve

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It's not about the amount of treatment. Messi was a totally unknown player in Europe and no one had any record or reports of him, supposedly.
In 20 years I have not read anyone say that they were scouting him before signing for Barcelona. What is known is that he was going to sign for River Plate but they did not pay for the treatment.
If Barcelona did not know of his existence, it is most likely that he would play for River Plate but without the treatment. It is most likely given the information we have. Maybe something else happened but it's much more unlikely
Do you actually believe that he was a totally unknown player in Europe, you think that only Barcelona knew about one of the best player in the youth system of one of Argentina's first division club? I could understand your point if you were talking about a player from the third or fourth division, though these clubs are also scouted. Anyway if Horacio Gaggioli is not lying Real Madrid were the other option in Europe.
 

Niemans

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Do you actually believe that he was a totally unknown player in Europe, you think that only Barcelona knew about one of the best player in the youth system of one of Argentina's first division club? I could understand your point if you were talking about a player from the third or fourth division, though these clubs are also scouted. Anyway if Horacio Gaggioli is not lying Real Madrid were the other option in Europe.
Obviously I think so, that's why I say he wouldn't have gotten the treatment.
If there were more teams behind him my opinion would be different.
 

Niemans

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I should have said partially, you are right on that and I don't know why I didn't. But what has that got to do with Messi and his treatment? It wasn't even in this thread nor addressed to you, did you sat on it for weeks?
:lol:
The only one who talked about the treatment was me so I took it for granted.
As for the subject of Thiago because I read it yesterday but I did not answer it because I was busy and I remembered today.
 

JPRouve

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The only one who talked about the treatment was me so I took it for granted.
As for the subject of Thiago because I read it yesterday but I did not answer it because I was busy and I remembered today.
My post was literally about Barcelona fans making that point and not just you, I have seen mentioned way too many times since last summer with people acting as if Messi owes something to Barcelona or if Barceloan broke the bank for that treatment. Neither are the case and it undermines people's takes, it's possible to point the finger at Messi's exorbitant wage demands without making an obviously silly point about his hormone growth treatment.
 

JPRouve

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Obviously I think so, that's why I say he wouldn't have gotten the treatment.
If there were more teams behind him my opinion would be different.
How many times do you get a full list of the clubs interested in a youth player, it's rarely more than 2 or 3 clubs especially 20 years ago when we had less media coverage on that topic?
 

Niemans

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How many times do you get a full list of the clubs interested in a youth player, it's rarely more than 2 or 3 clubs especially 20 years ago when we had less media coverage on that topic?
Normally when a player becomes a world figure, the scouts come out saying I followed this player, or we made him an offer but he preferred Barcelona or something like that.
In addition, at that time the clubs did not have as many scouts as today, and even less in an Argentine children's team that was not top.

As after twenty years there has been no such information, my thought is that there were no interested teams behind him, only River Plate. If reliable information appears about one or more teams that wanted to sign him, then I will change my opinion, as it should be.
 

JPRouve

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Normally when a player becomes a world figure, the scouts come out saying I followed this player, or we made him an offer but he preferred Barcelona or something like that.
In addition, at that time the clubs did not have as many scouts as today, and even less in an Argentine children's team that was not top.

As after twenty years there has been no such information, my thought is that there were no interested teams behind him, only River Plate. If reliable information appears about one or more teams that wanted to sign him, then I will change my opinion, as it should be.
There is a big difference between a player being unknown and a player getting a formal offer from clubs. Now there is one big reason why no club or club employee will tell you themselves about offers that they may or may not have made to Messi's parents or any parents of an under 18 Footballer in the context of an international transfer, unless they want FIFA to look into their dealings.
 

Grylte

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I think he was that big baldy ref (might be Ovrebo?) who had a shocking match at Stamford Bridge. The infamous Drogba shouting “this is f’n disgrace” (or something like that) into the camera, post match.
Yeah, i know, but the spelling was so far off i had to comment :lol:
 

Alonzo

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When I refer in the short term, it is because no one paid for the treatment that he needed at that very moment.

Ad populum argument. I already answered this in another post.

Predicting what Barcelona would have won in 20 years with or without Messi is impossible and therefore hypothetical.
In the case of Messi's treatment, it is a fact that no one was going to pay for it except Barcelona. Have you heard any club say that at that time they were going to pay for Messi's treatment? No. Because the only club interested in signing him was River Plate, apart from Barcelona, and they had already told the Messi family that they would not be in charge of any treatment. So in the short term no one was going to pay him.
That is such a bad faith argument it’s not even worth spending time typing to point out its flaws.
 

We need an rvn

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Messi didn't sacrifice anything for the club. I remind you that he earned €555M for 4 years of contract. And the first year that Barcelona did not want to pay him the barbarity he wanted because he sent a burofax.
If it weren't for Barcelona that paid him for the growth treatment, he might not have been able to be a footballer. In Argentina, no one paid for it.

Secondly, that information comes from a judicial investigation into Barcagate.
The disrespect you are showing for messi, coming from a Barca fan, is unbelievable.

Forget the salary as he has brought in so much money and trophies for your club his salary request dwarfs that income.
 

Niemans

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The disrespect you are showing for messi, coming from a Barca fan, is unbelievable.

Forget the salary as he has brought in so much money and trophies for your club his salary request dwarfs that income.
The disrespect you are showing for messi, coming from a Barca fan, is unbelievable.

Forget the salary as he has brought in so much money and trophies for your club his salary request dwarfs that income.
I don't disrespect anyone, I just have some principles and the club is above any player. Being a Barcelona fan I don't have to lick Messi's ass at all. I'm not a fanboy of anyone. From absolutely no one.
And I would have kicked Messi out a few years ago, a player who walks the field with me doesn't play. Some will find it right and others won't.

The thing about Messi bringing a lot of money to the club is a fallacy.
Barcelona continues to generate the same money with Messi as without Messi.
Just as it has happened to Real Madrid and Manchester United when they have not had Cristiano Ronaldo, the clubs have continued to generate the same money, and in some cases more.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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The disrespect you are showing for messi, coming from a Barca fan, is unbelievable.

Forget the salary as he has brought in so much money and trophies for your club his salary request dwarfs that income.
tbf, he was paid almost 2m a week, no sports person earns that much from salary alone, his father consistently demanded increases after increases, but at some point, and this is in hindsight, at some point, Barca should've been firm and not bow to Messi's father demands, and because of Messi's exorbitant salary, other players asked for increases, of course they didn't ask for parity, but they demanded increases and Barca obliged (or Bartemou did).

Of course, Barca fans should never disrespect Messi, who is the greatest player ever to play for them and the greatest ever who will play for them, but the salary he was paid at barca was too exorbitant
 

Iker Quesadillas

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I have to agree with Niemans. Messi's salary was completely ridiculous near the end. Some people tried to pretend he was responsible for a huge amount of the club's earnings but time has shown this to be totally false.
 

Pickle85

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I have to agree with Niemans. Messi's salary was completely ridiculous near the end. Some people tried to pretend he was responsible for a huge amount of the club's earnings but time has shown this to be totally false.
Never thought I'd say this, but me too! It is a little tough to untangle them, though, as even though barca without messi may be putting the lie to the notion that he's responsible for their earnings NOW, it doesn't factor in that he's a huge part of the reason that they grew to be such a commercial juggernaut.
 

CruyffMaradonaMessi

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Some users obsession and trauma with Barça almost requires some form of psychological counseling of some sorts. Poor guys.

Barça has always had some of the greatest footballers in history. This is why players representing the club have won more Ballon d'Or, FIFA World Player of the Year etc. awards than any other club. It is pointless to list them all but a look at my username should give a few hints. 3 to be more precise.

Messi was a very important part of the club's insane success between 2004-2019 but those Barça teams were legendary and had amazing players in almost every position. The same spine of Barça formed the spine of arguably the most dominant modern national team too and were absolutely crucial in Spain winning the EURO 2008, World Cup in 2010 and EURO 2012.

In that same period the same Messi failed to win anything with a very stacked Argentina team (on paper) so Messi benefited just as much (if not more) from Barça and the Barça system as Barça did from Messi.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for absurdly high wages for "las vacas sagradas" at the club, this is hardly breaking news and a well-known thing by now.

The main blame for that are not overly greedy footballers who live in their own little worlds (this is universal for most footballers that play for elite clubs - even more so for tremendously successful ones such as Messi and the rest of the lot mentioned) but one of the worst presidents (Bartomeu) in the history of FC Barcelona and board.

Laporta, a very successful past president, that already fixed the mess left by another presidential disaster (Gaspart), knows how to deal with complex challenges and how to make tough decisions. We saw that when Messi left in 2021. Simply because at that time the economic situation of the club was suffering from the COVID-19 pandemic (Barça being specifically hard hit by this due to Barcelona being on of the main tourists spots in the world - Camp Nou and the Barça Museum) and the aftereffects of a disastrous economic planning (in particular the wage structure) and overall tenure of Bartomeu even though it was successful on paper (in terms of winning titles - in terms of long-term planning, managing the wage structure, transfers etc. it was a disaster mostly) until 2019.

Now the media is leaking old information during the international break (already planned in advance) which is also a typical thing in Spain and not surprising nor strange. The media need their clicks and for business to keep running during the international break as well.

Next up (tonight) will be Setién talking about his short stint at Barça and the problems he had with Messi and the other sacred cows. This is also well-known. In fact this already came to light during the tenure of Tata Martino (2012-13).

This is also a symptom of the incredibly weak tenure of Bartomeu and his and the past boards many weak managerial appointments. Not strange that strong managers like of Pep and Lucho managed to control the sacred cows until they helped force Lucho away in 2017 by publicly undermining his tactics.

The more time passes and the more one hears and reads, the more probable it becomes that Pep was "forced" to step down in 2012 after 14 titles in 4 seasons, due to not only well-known disagreements with Rosell/Bartomeu but also problems with the senior players (Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta excluded).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, club representatives apparently had a meeting with the agents of Endrick in Barcelona with the intention to sign him in the future. His current release clause is 32 million euros but he cannot make his possible debut with any European club before he turns 18 in July 2024. He is widely regarded as the best Brazilian talent in his age group and one of the most promising in many years.
PSG is apparently the biggest current rival to his signing.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/cumbre-barcelona-endrick-75738672
 
Last edited:

Pickle85

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Some users obsession and trauma with Barça almost requires some form of psychological counseling of some sorts. Poor guys.

Barça has always had some of the greatest footballers in history. This is why players representing the club have won more Ballon d'Or, FIFA World Player of the Year etc. awards than any other club. It is pointless to list them all but a look at my username should give a few hints. 3 to be more precise.

Messi was a very important part of the club's insane success between 2004-2019 but those Barça teams were legendary and had amazing players in almost every position. The same spine of Barça formed the spine of arguably the most dominant modern national team too and were absolutely crucial in Spain winning the EURO 2008, World Cup in 2010 and EURO 2012.

In that same period the same Messi failed to win anything with a very stacked Argentina team (on paper) so Messi benefited just as much (if not more) from Barça and the Barça system as Barça did from Messi.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for absurdly high wages for "las vacas sagradas" at the club, this is hardly breaking news and a well-known thing by now.

The main blame for that are not overly greedy footballers who live in their own little worlds (this is universal for most footballers that play for elite clubs - even more so for tremendously successful ones such as Messi and the rest of the lot mentioned) but one of the worst presidents (Bartomeu) in the history of FC Barcelona and board.

Laporta, a very successful past president, that already fixed the mess left by another presidential disaster (Gaspart), knows how to deal with complex challenges and how to make tough decisions. We saw that when Messi left in 2021. Simply because at that time the economic situation of the club was suffering from the COVID-19 pandemic (Barça being specifically hard hit by this due to Barcelona being on of the main tourists spots in the world - Camp Nou and the Barça Museum) and the aftereffects of a disastrous economic planning (in particular the wage structure) and overall tenure of Bartomeu even though it was successful on paper (in terms of winning titles - in terms of long-term planning, managing the wage structure, transfers etc. it was a disaster mostly) until 2019.

Now the media is leaking old information during the international break (already planned in advance) which is also a typical thing in Spain and not surprising nor strange. The media need their clicks and for business to keep running during the international break as well.

Next up (tonight) will be Setién talking about his short stint at Barça and the problems he had with Messi and the other sacred cows. This is also well-known. In fact this already came to light during the tenure of Tata Martino (2012-13).

This is also a symptom of the incredibly weak tenure of Bartomeu and his and the past boards many weak managerial appointments. Not strange that strong managers like of Pep and Lucho managed to control the sacred cows until they helped force Lucho away in 2017 by publicly undermining his tactics.

The more time passes and the more one hears and reads, the more probable it becomes that Pep was "forced" to step down in 2012 after 14 titles in 4 seasons, due to not only well-known disagreements with Rosell/Bartomeu but also problems with the senior players (Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta excluded).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, club representatives apparently had a meeting with the agents of Endrick in Barcelona with the intention to sign him in the future. His current release clause is 32 million euros but he cannot make his possible debut with any European club before he turns 18 in July 2024. He is widely regarded as the best Brazilian talent in his age group and one of the most promising in many years.
PSG is apparently the biggest current rival to his signing.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/cumbre-barcelona-endrick-75738672
Don't forget that they've got more dressage, curling and handball trophies than all other clubs COMBINED!
 

Niemans

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Some users obsession and trauma with Barça almost requires some form of psychological counseling of some sorts. Poor guys.

Barça has always had some of the greatest footballers in history. This is why players representing the club have won more Ballon d'Or, FIFA World Player of the Year etc. awards than any other club. It is pointless to list them all but a look at my username should give a few hints. 3 to be more precise.

Messi was a very important part of the club's insane success between 2004-2019 but those Barça teams were legendary and had amazing players in almost every position. The same spine of Barça formed the spine of arguably the most dominant modern national team too and were absolutely crucial in Spain winning the EURO 2008, World Cup in 2010 and EURO 2012.

In that same period the same Messi failed to win anything with a very stacked Argentina team (on paper) so Messi benefited just as much (if not more) from Barça and the Barça system as Barça did from Messi.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for absurdly high wages for "las vacas sagradas" at the club, this is hardly breaking news and a well-known thing by now.

The main blame for that are not overly greedy footballers who live in their own little worlds (this is universal for most footballers that play for elite clubs - even more so for tremendously successful ones such as Messi and the rest of the lot mentioned) but one of the worst presidents (Bartomeu) in the history of FC Barcelona and board.

Laporta, a very successful past president, that already fixed the mess left by another presidential disaster (Gaspart), knows how to deal with complex challenges and how to make tough decisions. We saw that when Messi left in 2021. Simply because at that time the economic situation of the club was suffering from the COVID-19 pandemic (Barça being specifically hard hit by this due to Barcelona being on of the main tourists spots in the world - Camp Nou and the Barça Museum) and the aftereffects of a disastrous economic planning (in particular the wage structure) and overall tenure of Bartomeu even though it was successful on paper (in terms of winning titles - in terms of long-term planning, managing the wage structure, transfers etc. it was a disaster mostly) until 2019.

Now the media is leaking old information during the international break (already planned in advance) which is also a typical thing in Spain and not surprising nor strange. The media need their clicks and for business to keep running during the international break as well.

Next up (tonight) will be Setién talking about his short stint at Barça and the problems he had with Messi and the other sacred cows. This is also well-known. In fact this already came to light during the tenure of Tata Martino (2012-13).

This is also a symptom of the incredibly weak tenure of Bartomeu and his and the past boards many weak managerial appointments. Not strange that strong managers like of Pep and Lucho managed to control the sacred cows until they helped force Lucho away in 2017 by publicly undermining his tactics.

The more time passes and the more one hears and reads, the more probable it becomes that Pep was "forced" to step down in 2012 after 14 titles in 4 seasons, due to not only well-known disagreements with Rosell/Bartomeu but also problems with the senior players (Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta excluded).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, club representatives apparently had a meeting with the agents of Endrick in Barcelona with the intention to sign him in the future. His current release clause is 32 million euros but he cannot make his possible debut with any European club before he turns 18 in July 2024. He is widely regarded as the best Brazilian talent in his age group and one of the most promising in many years.
PSG is apparently the biggest current rival to his signing.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/cumbre-barcelona-endrick-75738672
I read that information about Endrick and was surprised. I believed he had a release clause of €60M.

Another news I read is that Piqué, if he doesn't play 35% of the games this year, ends his contract in 2023. It would be great news.
 

CruyffMaradonaMessi

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Don't forget that they've got more dressage, curling and handball trophies than all other clubs COMBINED!
Barça seems to live rent free in your head, my friend.

I read that information about Endrick and was surprised. I believed he had a release clause of €60M.

Another news I read is that Piqué, if he doesn't play 35% of the games this year, ends his contract in 2023. It would be great news.
I was surprised too when I read it. We will have to see where Endrick will end up or whether he is such a big talent. He is yet to debut for the senior team of Palmeiras. I have never watched a match of his but looking at Youtube he looks really promising.

Yes, but I think that Piqué is going to leave next summer regardless of what happens. Busquets is also going to leave next summer when his contract runs out. Alba might be the only problem (his contract ends in 2024) but I think that he will leave too next summer if Xavi continues to bench him.

The biggest problem with those intolerable international breaks are possible injuries. Koundé injured (muscle injury, we will see how long he will be out tomorrow), Memphis (another muscle injury) and small knocks to De Jong and Dembélé. At least Lewandowski was not injured tonight! I hope that the injury of Koundé will not be longer than 3 weeks. We can better afford to miss Memphis with our squad depth in the attacking positions.
 

Pickle85

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Barça seems to live rent free in your head, my friend.



I was surprised too when I read it. We will have to see where Endrick will end up or whether he is such a big talent. He is yet to debut for the senior team of Palmeiras. I have never watched a match of his but looking at Youtube he looks really promising.

Yes, but I think that Piqué is going to leave next summer regardless of what happens. Busquets is also going to leave next summer when his contract runs out. Alba might be the only problem (his contract ends in 2024) but I think that he will leave too next summer if Xavi continues to bench him.

The biggest problem with those intolerable international breaks are possible injuries. Koundé injured (muscle injury, we will see how long he will be out tomorrow), Memphis (another muscle injury) and small knocks to De Jong and Dembélé. At least Lewandowski was not injured tonight! I hope that the injury of Koundé will not be longer than 3 weeks. We can better afford to miss Memphis with our squad depth in the attacking positions.
Would have to be rent free otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford it.
 

NLunited

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With the squad they have now, Barça should easily win La Liga. So far they have been underwhelming.

Xavi won’t last much longer if results don’t improve.
 

Dave Smith

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Be interesting to see the underlying financial results once you can extrapolate the Levers. Additionally, be interesting to see how their attendance holds up if they end up having a reasonable sized gap to Real and Inter put them into the Ropey League.
 

CruyffMaradonaMessi

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With the squad they have now, Barça should easily win La Liga. So far they have been underwhelming.

Xavi won’t last much longer if results don’t improve.
How does your post even make any sense? 16 points in 6 league games (should have been 18 - the only bad game so far was the first game of the season against Rayo but even that game should have been won based on chances created), a comfortable victory against Plzen and a very undeserved (based on chances created and game plan) against Bayern away from home. Too soon to conclude anything and nobody ever wins La Liga "easily". La Liga is not YET a farmer's league. Besides there is not much difference on paper between RM and Barça, in fact I would claim that RM are stronger just due to the fact that they have a "made" team and a "made" manager in Ancelotti. Barça is a project under construction.
 

WeePat

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With the squad they have now, Barça should easily win La Liga. So far they have been underwhelming.

Xavi won’t last much longer if results don’t improve.
What?! Scored the most goals, conceded the least (literally just one goal so far) and they’ve battered almost every team they’ve played so far. A stupid draw in their opening game is literally the only blip so far. They’ve looked more impressive than Real Madrid for me.
 

CruyffMaradonaMessi

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According to Adrià Soldevila Barça will hold discussions over a salary adjustment with Frenkie De Jong at the end of the year.
There was apparently a pact between Laporta and FDJ that if the player stayed, a salary adjustment would be talked about.
Add to this the certain departure of Busquets (his contract ends next summer and he apparently wants to go to the MLS), Piqué's and Alba's likely departure next season, and most if not all of Bartomeu's idiotic contracts will be gone from the wage budget.

Moreover it seems that Bartomeu is at great risk of losing his club membership due to "Bartogate" (called mostly "Barçagate" in the media but in reality it should be called "Bartogate"). Very welcome news.

https://as.com/futbol/el-barca-abre-expediente-a-bartomeu-para-expulsarle-como-socio-n/

French media talk about Koundé being out between 2-3 weeks. This is the estimation, but more tests will be done tomorrow and only then we will know how long he will be out for certain. Looks like he will miss both games against Inter and possibly El Clásico. A big loss as I don't trust Roberto nor Bellerín in such high-profile games. Araújo is great defensively but his offensive output is limited. Could be a good option away from home against Inter and RM. Luckily the squad depth among central defenders is great nowadays.

The extent of Depay's injury will be known tomorrow. There is talk of a muscle rupture in his left hamstring.

As for transfer rumors, there is talk of the club being interested in Monaco's Brazilian right back Vanderson. I have no clue about this player and I don't think that I have ever seen a full game of his. However it is evident that we need to strengthen the RB position with Roberto's contract running out next summer, similarly Bellerín's and neither Araújo nor Koundé are natural right backs although Koundé has surprised me greatly (positively) in this position.
 

BerryBerryShrew

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Be interesting to see the underlying financial results once you can extrapolate the Levers. Additionally, be interesting to see how their attendance holds up if they end up having a reasonable sized gap to Real and Inter put them into the Ropey League.
It's more likely that Barca win the CL outright than them not getting out of the group. Their activities during the summer have blinded people to the fact that they have an excellent side. If Lewa is fit and firing when the knockout ties roll around then they have as good a chance as anyone.
 

stefan92

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It's more likely that Barca win the CL outright than them not getting out of the group. Their activities during the summer have blinded people to the fact that they have an excellent side. If Lewa is fit and firing when the knockout ties roll around then they have as good a chance as anyone.
Coming third in a group with Bayern and Inter is absolutely as likely as winning the CL, probably more. If Inter pull themselves together for these matches they have a real chance. Nonetheless I would agree that Bayern and Barca are favourites here.
 

Ragnar123

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You gotta love the international breaks. 2 months of football, zero injuries. First week nations league, we lose Kounde, Araujo, Memphis, Frenkie and maybe Dembele. Xavi will be thrilled before the most important october with 2x inter, bayern, clasico. And spain didn't even play yet.

e: our two best defenders will miss all those matches. They will be out for at least 1 month....
 
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Freak

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You gotta love the international breaks. 2 months of football, zero injuries. First week nations league, we lose Kounde, Araujo, Memphis, Frenkie and maybe Dembele. Xavi will be thrilled before the most important october with 2x inter, bayern, clasico. And spain didn't even play yet.

e: our two best defenders will miss all those matches. They will be out for at least 1 month....
I'm sure you guys will pull some lever out of your arses to fix it.
 

NLunited

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Anything less than La Liga champions and surviving CL group phase means Xavi is gone.
 

Niemans

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You gotta love the international breaks. 2 months of football, zero injuries. First week nations league, we lose Kounde, Araujo, Memphis, Frenkie and maybe Dembele. Xavi will be thrilled before the most important october with 2x inter, bayern, clasico. And spain didn't even play yet.

e: our two best defenders will miss all those matches. They will be out for at least 1 month....
Those who manage the calendar have not yet realized that these stoppages of selections do not like anyone.
The most logical, and fair, thing would be for the club competitions to be played without interruptions, and at the end, the national team competitions.
 

Ragnar123

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Barcelona
Those who manage the calendar have not yet realized that these stoppages of selections do not like anyone.
The most logical, and fair, thing would be for the club competitions to be played without interruptions, and at the end, the national team competitions.
Oh they realize, but they make too much money to care about players, teams and their competition. And if they would do it like that, many people would stop watching football when club competition season ends, because many football fans don't give a feck about national team football. That would mean less money for the corrupt mafia clans Fifa and Uefa.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Oh they realize, but they make too much money to care about players, teams and their competition. And if they would do it like that, many people would stop watching football when club competition season ends, because many football fans don't give a feck about national team football. That would mean less money for the corrupt mafia clans Fifa and Uefa.
How can a Barca fan be against UEFAlona?
 

Dave Smith

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You gotta love the international breaks. 2 months of football, zero injuries. First week nations league, we lose Kounde, Araujo, Memphis, Frenkie and maybe Dembele. Xavi will be thrilled before the most important october with 2x inter, bayern, clasico. And spain didn't even play yet.

e: our two best defenders will miss all those matches. They will be out for at least 1 month....
Levercursen
 
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