Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It's like watching a boxer win a heavyweight title fight, devoting your entire fandom free time to that boxer, then finding out that every fight in the run up to and including the title was fixed by bribing the referees. And THEN still telling people you love that boxer and your memories of all his glorious fights.

Can we change the name of the Stockholm Syndrome to Barcelona Syndrome?

 

[RoyH1]

They will just come out with "nothing to see here"

Yes, but not in the way we think. UEFA ushed into this way before there are any trials or official legal proceedings. For a scoundrel like Ceferino this is is a golden opportunity to dismantle the SuperLeague coalition once and for all. I bet you any money that behind the scenes he'll negotiate with Laporta getting him to abandon the idea and then they will say that there was nothing to see there anyway.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yes, but not in the way we think. UEFA ushed into this way before there are any trials or official legal proceedings. For a scoundrel like Ceferino this is is a golden opportunity to dismantle the SuperLeague coalition once and for all. I bet you any money that behind the scenes he'll negotiate with Laporta getting him to abandon the idea and then they will say that there was nothing to see there anyway.

Thing is, La Liga might not do anything as Barca are one of their two big fishes. There are a lot of big fishes in the CL, so it would not dilute the competition if Barca are not in it. They survived well enough for years with no English teams.

 

[Dave Smith]

Thing is, La Liga might not do anything as Barca are one of their two big fishes. There are a lot of big fishes in the CL, so it would not dilute the competition if Barca are not in it. They survived well enough for years with no English teams.

Cannot see how La Liga/Spanish FA do that if Barca get convicted in a court of law. This is the thing with this case, this isn't a City situation where they're going to a sport tribunal. If Barca get convicted in a court of law for corruption, the league/FA won't have any out and be able to say 'nothing to see'.

 

[GatoLoco]

Thing is, La Liga might not do anything as Barca are one of their two big fishes. There are a lot of big fishes in the CL, so it would not dilute the competition if Barca are not in it. They survived well enough for years with no English teams.

It is not a matter of choice. On paper, there is nothing La Liga can do simply because serious misconduct is subject to a three-year statute of limitations under Spanish sports law since 1990. And it's been five years since we know Barcelona paid Negreira for the last time.

But even if it was subject to a choice, it would be suicidal to prefer Barcelona over dealing with a scandal of these proportions. A competition can or cannot survive without one of its best teams, but under no circumstances can survive with a feeling of impunity for those who don't act the right way.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Cannot see how La Liga/Spanish FA do that if Barca get convicted in a court of law. This is the thing with this case, this isn't a City situation where they're going to a sport tribunal. If Barca get convicted in a court of law for corruption, the league/FA won't have any out and be able to say 'nothing to see'.

Never thought of that.

 

[Messier1994]

There you go.
He received €1240 monthly for disability while earning millions from Barca and earning nothing from his job as the ref VP.

Also, when Barca stopped paying him abruptly (because he was no longer the ref VP) he threatened Barca to continue the payments or he would reveal all the irregularities he knew from the club. Then he was hired by the Catalonian Football Federation for the same concept, ref reports.

You can not make this up.

Yeah, and I would guess that he earned money from the CTA, just that he never reported it. Negreira wouldnt leave any money on the table…

 

[Messier1994]

It is not a matter of choice. On paper, there is nothing La Liga can do simply because serious misconduct is subject to a three-year statute of limitations under Spanish sports law since 1990. And it's been five years since we know Barcelona paid Negreira for the last time.

But even if it was subject to a choice, it would be suicidal to prefer Barcelona over dealing with a scandal of these proportions. A competition can or cannot survive without one of its best teams, but under no circumstances can survive with a feeling of impunity for those who don't act the right way.

What definitely can be done is just agreeing to something between the clubs of La Liga.

You cannot make laws that applies retroactively, but nothing like that applies to say statues of an organization etc.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Anything less than stripping them of everything won between the bribes and a relegation with a heavy fine will be soft IMO.

 

[432JuanMata]

Anything less than stripping them of everything won between the bribes and a relegation with a heavy fine will be soft IMO.

I seen people saying in here we should be given the CL they beat us in during that period but just like City in the league I wouldn’t want them but I 100% agree with the relegation just like Juve got

 

[Strelok]

There you go.
He received €1240 monthly for disability while earning millions from Barca and earning nothing from his job as the ref VP.

Also, when Barca stopped paying him abruptly (because he was no longer the ref VP) he threatened Barca to continue the payments or he would reveal all the irregularities he knew from the club. Then he was hired by the Catalonian Football Federation for the same concept, ref reports.

You can not make this up.

This wanker was on welfare while getting millions from Barca ?? What the actual feck true you simply couldn't make this up

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I agree.

I seen people saying in here we should be given the CL they beat us in during that period but just like City in the league I wouldn’t want them but I 100% agree with the relegation just like Juve got

I agree. Wouldn’t give us the true satisfaction. But I believe the titles should be vacant for those years. No way they should count.

 

[caid]

My lack of enthusiasm for the titles at this point makes me feel they should be vacant. I'll never value them as much as 99 and 08, they wouldn't be their equal. The records should reflect that them seasons were just fecked up by cheating and are now meaningless.

 

[Ragnar123]

So Fati's father lost his cool yesterday in an interview with COPE and ranted about his son's situation. He complained so much, that even the interviewer said he wasn't used to such rantings in all directions. His father even unfollowed Barca and started to follow Bayern

I'm so tired of parents who interfere in things they know nothing about. Fati didn't do surgery against Barca's recommendation, because he listened to his entourage. Now this entourage is blaming Barca for his poor form, or even better they don't acknowledge his poor form and just rant about why he doesn't play, although every culer sees how awful Ansu is right now on the pitch when he gets minutes.

Please take your son to another club. While you're at it, please call Moriba and ask him how his career turned out listening to his father.

 

[NLunited]

So Fati's father lost his cool yesterday in an interview with COPE and ranted about his son's situation. He complained so much, that even the interviewer said he wasn't used to such rantings in all directions. His father even unfollowed Barca and started to follow Bayern

I'm so tired of parents who interfere in things they know nothing about. Fati didn't do surgery against Barca's recommendation, because he listened to his entourage. Now this entourage is blaming Barca for his poor form, or even better they don't acknowledge his poor form and just rant about why he doesn't play, although every culer sees how awful Ansu is right now on the pitch when he gets minutes.

Please take your son to another club. While you're at it, please call Moriba and ask him how his career turned out listening to his father.

Great way to support one of your most talented players. He has been extremely unlucky with injuries, which must be very difficult for him.

He does not play enough, Barcelona often lacks speed on the wings, like against Man United. Big mistake from Xavi.

He should leave the club because it is run by a bunch of corrupt goatfecking cnuts.

 

[Ragnar123]

According to some journalists, the financing for Espai Barca has been finally completed and approved by Goldman Sachs.
€1.5b with an interest rate of 5.5%. In the unlikely case that barca gets an UCL ban next season (that was the delay), both parties agreed on tours around the globe to collect money.
The construction will start in september.

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[Niemans]

According to some journalists, the financing for Espai Barca has been finally completed and approved by Goldman Sachs.
€1.5b with an interest rate of 5.5%. In the unlikely case that barca gets an UCL ban next season (that was the delay), both parties agreed on tours around the globe to collect money.
The construction will start in september.

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In a few days the structure of the financing of the credit will be announced. There is talk of 3 credits of € 500M, with different interests and payment finalization.

 

[Messier1994]

According to some journalists, the financing for Espai Barca has been finally completed and approved by Goldman Sachs.
€1.5b with an interest rate of 5.5%. In the unlikely case that barca gets an UCL ban next season (that was the delay), both parties agreed on tours around the globe to collect money.
The construction will start in september.

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What I — really — finds sad is how stuff like this is allowed to be ongoing right in front of the nose of Barça fans.

Barça is head over heels in debt, owing billions to these lenders, who definitely can’t be sleeping well at night, and is in the midst of probably the biggest football scandal ever.

If you in that position calls up Goldman Sachs and asks to loan another billion — you think the terms will be good? You think GS won’t have ensured that they almost forever will control the faith of Barça if Laporta’s plan to pretend that it’s raining falls through?

 

[Niemans]

What I — really — finds sad is how stuff like this is allowed to be ongoing right in front of the nose of Barça fans.

Barça is head over heels in debt, owing billions to these lenders, who definitely can’t be sleeping well at night, and is in the midst of probably the biggest football scandal ever.

If you in that position calls up Goldman Sachs and asks to loan another billion — you think the terms will be good? You think GS won’t have ensured that they almost forever will control the faith of Barça if Laporta’s plan to pretend that it’s raining falls through?

With the new stadium the club will raise €150-200M+, according to the al club.
The logical thing if this is true, is to do the remodeling and with those new incomes pay debt.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Barca, the football equivalent of someone who gets a payday loan to pay a credit card bill. Dickheads.

 

[cyberman]

According to some journalists, the financing for Espai Barca has been finally completed and approved by Goldman Sachs.
€1.5b with an interest rate of 5.5%. In the unlikely case that barca gets an UCL ban next season (that was the delay), both parties agreed on tours around the globe to collect money.
The construction will start in september.

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Why is a ban unlikely? Appears UEFA are handing that ban down as soon as they can

 

[Messier1994]

With the new stadium the club will raise €150-200M+, according to the al club.
The logical thing if this is true, is to do the remodeling and with those new incomes pay debt.

From my point of view, it comes down to this.

Barça in the 4th tier of Spainish football won’t be of gain to any creditor, the value is in the brand and it being somewhat successful. But you can only suck so much blood out of a corpse, and the ones picking up the bill won’t be the US banks.

Normally when you build a new stadium (upgrade the current one), it is sound and an investment that pays itself off over time. Much more so than selling large chunks of future income to be able to roll forward debt so that the transfer budget isn’t impacted. And I am not disputing that it is the correct move for Barça to move forward with it now.

But what I can — guarantee — is that negotiating this debt with Goldman Sachs right now, that was not the best timing. It’s in fact the absolutely worst timing. Several banks have gone under just the last handful of weeks, and not only niche banks like Sillicon Valley Bank, a huge bank like Credit Suisse went under. Inflation is roaring in society for the first time in decades, mainly due to really high energy prices. And in addition, you have a Barça club in shambles (to say the least).

You tell me — which purpose does it suit best to drive to this right now? The fans who will be there for the rest of their life time and ‘pick up the bill’ in one way or the other? Look at Juve, a brand like Barca always get a second chance. The terms entered into today will be horrible. In who’s interest is it to not let the dust settle?

 

[7even]

From my point of view, it comes down to this.

Barça in the 4th tier of Spainish football won’t be of gain to any creditor, the value is in the brand and it being somewhat successful. But you can only suck so much blood out of a corpse, and the ones picking up the bill won’t be the US banks.

Normally when you build a new stadium (upgrade the current one), it is sound and an investment that pays itself off over time. Much more so than selling large chunks of future income to be able to roll forward debt so that the transfer budget isn’t impacted. And I am not disputing that it is the correct move for Barça to move forward with it now.

But what I can — guarantee — is that negotiating this debt with Goldman Sachs right now, that was not the best timing. It’s in fact the absolutely worst timing. Several banks have gone under just the last handful of weeks, and not only niche banks like Sillicon Valley Bank, a huge bank like Credit Suisse went under. Inflation is roaring in society for the first time in decades, mainly due to really high energy prices. And in addition, you have a Barça club in shambles (to say the least).

You tell me — which purpose does it suit best to drive to this right now? The fans who will be there for the rest of their life time and ‘pick up the bill’ in one way or the other? Look at Juve, a brand like Barca always get a second chance. The terms entered into today will be horrible. In who’s interest is it to not let the dust settle?

Very sensible and good post and I highly appreciate your common sense.

The difference in recent successes and financial stability between Real Madrid and Barcelona is down to one individual - Florentino Pėrez. He’s the equivalent of Lionel Messi as a club president and businessman. A genius with both a short and a long term vision how to be successful.

Barcelona with Juan Laporte has right now so much complex that they’re willing to sell their heart and soul to the devil to match Real and that’s why they accept these crazy business deals. I will draw a parallel between SJR and Barca and say as soon someone looking for a business partner like Goldman Sachs then you instantly know that future financial problem is a huge part of the deal. Laporte and SJR will do fine but the club sooner or later has to pay the price for these high interest loans.

Laporte will be gone in a couple of months/years so he don’t care. His time is here and now so he’s not around when the bill arrives. Thinking otherwise is extremely naive.

This is why I think it’s a bad idea for United to be owned by us supporters and that’s also why I don’t believe in SJR and Ineos as owners.

 

[Niemans]

From my point of view, it comes down to this.

Barça in the 4th tier of Spainish football won’t be of gain to any creditor, the value is in the brand and it being somewhat successful. But you can only suck so much blood out of a corpse, and the ones picking up the bill won’t be the US banks.

Normally when you build a new stadium (upgrade the current one), it is sound and an investment that pays itself off over time. Much more so than selling large chunks of future income to be able to roll forward debt so that the transfer budget isn’t impacted. And I am not disputing that it is the correct move for Barça to move forward with it now.

But what I can — guarantee — is that negotiating this debt with Goldman Sachs right now, that was not the best timing. It’s in fact the absolutely worst timing. Several banks have gone under just the last handful of weeks, and not only niche banks like Sillicon Valley Bank, a huge bank like Credit Suisse went under. Inflation is roaring in society for the first time in decades, mainly due to really high energy prices. And in addition, you have a Barça club in shambles (to say the least).

You tell me — which purpose does it suit best to drive to this right now? The fans who will be there for the rest of their life time and ‘pick up the bill’ in one way or the other? Look at Juve, a brand like Barca always get a second chance. The terms entered into today will be horrible. In who’s interest is it to not let the dust settle?

I would like to make a few points.

Barcelona already refinanced the debt before activating the levers. Due to the fact that there were presidential elections, Barcelona was without a president for many months and with the issue of the pandemic, it was unable to refinance the short-term debt into the long-term. Once Laporta was elected president, he asked Goldman Sachs for a loan.
€595M/10y/1.98% interest


With the levers, the losses of €150M last year and €200M this year were covered. In addition, 125 million of the Goldman Sachs credit was paid and they raised the salary limit to be able to reinforce the team. All this while returning to economic balance by eliminating salaries, amortizations and various end-of-contract bonuses.

The credit of 1,500 million with Goldman Sachs will be announced next week in principle with all the details. The information that exists now is the following:

Finally, the money will be contributed by more than 15 investors, and is divided as follows:

- 500 million of bank credit with Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, to be repaid in five years at 6% interest
- 500 million more investors in the medium term, from seven to ten years and at 5% interest.
- 500 million from long-term investors, from 15 to 25 years and at 5.5% interest.

In principle there is talk that Barcelona will be able to renegotiate the interest rate after the fifth year.

The question that many ask is: how will Barça return the megalomaniac loan? That's where InterMoney comes in.

What role will InterMoney S.G.F.T play?

The idea of the club is the constitution of an Asset Securitization Fund (FTA) that will be managed by the aforementioned external company.
The fund in question will be the owner of all the income generated by the new Espai Barça until the total return of the borrowed money, with a basic condition: the first 100 million will be for the club, while the rest will go to the fund. Barça estimates that the new Espai Barça will generate about 347 million annually --176 kilos more than the current turnover--, although today the figure is only an approximation.

The strategy developed by Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, with the participation of InterMoney as responsible for managing the FTA, proposes that this fund stays about 80 million annually to repay the loan, while everything that exceeds that amount will return to the club in the form of income.

Of that €1,500M, a total of €200M will go to pay the bridge loan that was used to start the works.

 

[Messier1994]

I would like to make a few points.

Barcelona already refinanced the debt before activating the levers. Due to the fact that there were presidential elections, Barcelona was without a president for many months and with the issue of the pandemic, it was unable to refinance the short-term debt into the long-term. Once Laporta was elected president, he asked Goldman Sachs for a loan.
€595M/10y/1.98% interest


With the levers, the losses of €150M last year and €200M this year were covered. In addition, 125 million of the Goldman Sachs credit was paid and they raised the salary limit to be able to reinforce the team. All this while returning to economic balance by eliminating salaries, amortizations and various end-of-contract bonuses.

The credit of 1,500 million with Goldman Sachs will be announced next week in principle with all the details. The information that exists now is the following:

Finally, the money will be contributed by more than 15 investors, and is divided as follows:

- 500 million of bank credit with Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, to be repaid in five years at 6% interest
- 500 million more investors in the medium term, from seven to ten years and at 5% interest.
- 500 million from long-term investors, from 15 to 25 years and at 5.5% interest.

In principle there is talk that Barcelona will be able to renegotiate the interest rate after the fifth year.

The question that many ask is: how will Barça return the megalomaniac loan? That's where InterMoney comes in.

What role will InterMoney S.G.F.T play?

The idea of the club is the constitution of an Asset Securitization Fund (FTA) that will be managed by the aforementioned external company.
The fund in question will be the owner of all the income generated by the new Espai Barça until the total return of the borrowed money, with a basic condition: the first 100 million will be for the club, while the rest will go to the fund. Barça estimates that the new Espai Barça will generate about 347 million annually --176 kilos more than the current turnover--, although today the figure is only an approximation.

The strategy developed by Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, with the participation of InterMoney as responsible for managing the FTA, proposes that this fund stays about 80 million annually to repay the loan, while everything that exceeds that amount will return to the club in the form of income.

Of that €1,500M, a total of €200M will go to pay the bridge loan that was used to start the works.

Thanks, and I am not surprised. The lenders would never make this loan if the assets would still lie in the club. These set-up are also often called ‘death spiral financing’. If Barca stumble a long the way, income will be lower not only due to less price/TV money — it will no longer get any stadium revenue since all will go to cover the lenders debts.

Taking risks like this would never be accepted otherwise.

Barcelona with Juan Laporte has right now so much complex that they’re willing to sell their heart and soul to the devil to match Real and that’s why they accept these crazy business deals. I will draw a parallel between SJR and Barca and say as soon someone looking for a business partner like Goldman Sachs then you instantly know that future financial problem is a huge part of the deal. Laporte and SJR will do fine but the club sooner or later has to pay the price for these high interest loans.

Haha, we will see. In a way Laporta is making himself indispensable to the club. Who else would want to step in and say ‘don’t worry, I got this!”

 

[SirReginald]

Haha, we will see. In a way Laporta is making himself indispensable to the club. Who else would want to step in and say ‘don’t worry, I got this!”

Be awkward then if he gets banned from football for all his shady antics that have gone a long way to ruining a clubs entire credibility and gambling at their financial health.

 

[Messier1994]

Anyway, Laporta’s PC on Monday will be nothing short of fascinating.

 

[GatoLoco]

Anyway, Laporta’s PC on Monday will be nothing short of fascinating.

New drinking game: take a shot every time Laporta mentions Tebas during the PC.

 

[Ragnar123]

Laporta's press conference about the Negreira Case is about to start. You can follow it live on Barca's youtube channel

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[EricD]

Just blaming others for timing of accusations and defending Barca by saying that Real Madrid has been just as bad influencing referees is more or less admitting guilt and explaining why they did it.

 

[carvajal]

Unless I missed something: He said that his internal compliance agency has concluded that they have done nothing wrong.
He has accused Tebas and Madrid. At least he didn't name Franco, just "the regime's team".

 

[Ragnar123]

Here are some of his quotes:

"We won everything thanks to the effort and talent from our players”
"Barcelona suffers from a gigantic campaign of damaging a reputation that has nothing to do with reality. In it’s 125 year history, Barça have been a model of fair play on and off the pitch”
"When the case came out, there were immediate responses from some medias to damage our image. It's not a coincidence"
"Barcelona has NEVER carried out any action that had the purpose, intention, to cheat through a competition to have a sporting advantage”
“Justice said it themselves, they never had any proof of us buying referees. Nobody could prove anything either because there was NOTHING”
“Nobody has found any proof”
“Barça got refereeing reports but that is not illegal. There are invoices, everything is in the club's accounting books. We did it clearly and transparently. We haven't hidden anything”
"629 reports and 43 video reports. These are all the [refereeing technical] reports we have, they exist unlike those who said they had disappeared”
"An investigation was launched and it explained to us that we did NOTHING to get punished by the justice, a real job was done. Now we have to let justice do it’s job. I am convinced that Barca will be cleared of all suspicion”
“Everyone started judging Barça even before the judiciary did”
"Javier Tebas is irresponsible. He lacks professionalism, it's obvious. He constantly fuels controversy, he even sent FALSE documents”
“I thank RFEF President Rubiales and FIFA President Infantino for not joining the campaign against Barcelona. They are waiting for the court's decision”
"NO campaign will change us. Barcelona did nothing wrong. And all the transactions that we have done are legitimate and have been subject to tax examination through correct financial transactions. We are FAR from any suspicion of corruption”
“Real Madrid has appeared, a club favored by refereeing decisions”
“For decades, the heads of committees were either former socis or former directors of Real Madrid”
“For Real Madrid to come out and say that they feel attacked seems to me an unprecedented exercise in cynicism. I hope this trial unmasks them”
"Barça paid technical reports for 18 years, you have to put it in context. These reports HAD to be made, they were made by competent people in the industry. The investigation found 623 reports, 43 video reports - and these are just from 2014-2018”
"Negreira couldn't influence our matches, he didn't even have the ability to choose the referees”
“Why did the payments increase in the final years? Because there are more of them, because football competitions have become stronger and fiercer”
“Negreira's son has worked for several clubs, for the Spanish FA, for Luis Aragones. It's not illogical to ask him to work for Barca [for technical refereeing reports]”
“Nobody from the club has ever told Negreira that we were looking for neutrality in refereeing. It was just a personal opinion that was given to the IRS, NO proof. We paid for the technical reports and only for that”
“I repeat, the €7M we paid over the course of 18 years was for technical reports and we know that all clubs do the same thing. Prices go up over the years”
“Javier Tebas did an irresponsible act and tried to destroy Barcelona's reputation - he always says a number of irresponsible statements. He says, for example, that requesting such technical reports is not possible, which is WRONG”
“UEFA wants to act against Barcelona because we support the Super League project. Ceferin made a number of offensive statements and I ask him to be responsible and wise, unlike Tebas”
“We reserve the right to seek financial compensation. The compensation we will demand could be astronomical”

If everything is true, then it looks like barca will be acquitted for the third time after Rosell and Neymar. Another political ego campaign from Madrid fails and then I really hope all of Tebas' and Madrid's media will have to pay a huge sum in the end

 

[cyberman]

Absolute shit show of a conference with nothing to show
Also


President Laporta: "Barça are suffering a gigantic campaign of reputational damage... In 123 years of history, FC Barcelona has been a model of fair play, on and off the field. And we are very proud of this model that we defend."

Laporta: "The events happened many years ago,

..so 124 years ago? Did a poster from here write this for him?

 

[rimaldo]

after completing the investigation into myself, i can conclude that i am the most handsome, smarterer, biggest penis man in the whole world.

 

[JPRouve]

after completing the investigation into myself, i can conclude that i am the most handsome, smarterer, biggest penis man in the whole world.

If everything is true then it looks like Rimaldo will be nominated as the man of the century and all women will be delivered to his door.

 

[WeePat]

Here are some of his quotes:


If everything is true, then it looks like barca will be acquitted for the third time after Rosell and Neymar. Another political ego campaign from Madrid fails and then I really hope all of Tebas' and Madrid's media will have to pay a huge sum in the end

The word if is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here.

 

[Akshay]

Here are some of his quotes:


If everything is true, then it looks like barca will be acquitted for the third time after Rosell and Neymar. Another political ego campaign from Madrid fails and then I really hope all of Tebas' and Madrid's media will have to pay a huge sum in the end

I'm amazed you believe him. Barcelona made hidden payments to the VP of the referee committee and you think it's a media stunt? I expected better from some of the Barcelona fans in here, guess I shouldn't have.

 

[Brophs]

Laporta has crunched the numbers, guys and the news is good. Very good.

 

[FreckBarca]

After two months of preparation Barca's explanations have been pretty poor.

I expected more of them

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Clarified absolutely nothing.