Barcelona in crisis after six directors resign in protest at way club is run

Ace Krampus

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"Barcelona presidential candidate launches astonishing attack on club's board and claims LaLiga giants are in danger of 'economic bankruptcy and moral decay'"

This is like the equivalent of Gal Gadot and all those other morons singing "Imagine."

Go. Away!
 

Greck

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Awfully run. Having Messi masks just how bad they are because it doesn't take much to build a top 3 league contender around him, especially in the La liga. When Messi goes they are going to be as bad as us after SAF. Of course assuming they don't change their leadership
 

Rozay

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Take away Lionel Messi. Do they have that many trophies?

Coincidences make or break many a club, including our own.
In fairness, that isn’t fair. Why would anyone look at Barcelona and then ‘take away Messi’. He’s not exactly been on loan at Barcelona or anything.
 

pascell

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They need to make £109m this summer just to make ends meet, they're definitely not buying a big named signing, ie Neymar, especially as Messi needs a renewal.
 
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Awfully run. Having Messi masks just how bad they are because it doesn't take much to build a top 3 league contender around him, especially in the La liga. When Messi goes they are going to be as bad as us after SAF. Of course assuming they don't change their leadership
they are lucky that the league is nowhere near as strong as the PL, they will always be at least 3rd, and so will have the benefit of CL football.
 

Adisa

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The crux of all this is how they allowed this wage bill skyrocket. Faus and Rosell for all their flaws has a simple basic principle which was right.
You have to run the club like a business.
Messi alone takes in €80m+ a year. That's ridiculous. On principle alone you can't give him that much. You loose control of the wage structure right there and then. You've placed a premium on his teammates automatically.
 

Isotope

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Take away Lionel Messi. Do they have that many trophies?

Coincidences make or break many a club, including our own.
Yes they have. Also, is it because of Messi, or Xavi-Iniesta combo? If you look at what Spain vs Argentina have achieved..
 

Winrar

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Of course losing Messi in 4-5 years will be a huge blow like many have said here already.

But the issue that's just as big (probably even bigger) is that many of his established teammates are around the same age and will decline with him as well, with long time core established WC players like Pique, Rakitic, Suarez, Alba, Vidal around that early to mid 30s mark. Not to mention their squad is already thin as is, and their galactico purchases Coutinho, and Dembele haven't exactly pulled down their roots at the club and excelled like they did at their previous clubs. (Jury's still out on Griezmann)

I know, their wage bills will be freed up a lot... but one thing for sure is they have a serious rebuilding job upcoming, and if they botch it like we did they could be hovering in mediocrity for many years.
 

Luke1995

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Don't think they will struggle like us did post Fergie. There was a good team before Messi and a good team before Ronaldinho. They were pretty competitive with Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, and so on.

They just need to make sure they get that one big superstar who can keep winning them the biggest games. Maybe Neymar although he isn't a boy anymore.

Our problem was, we had owners who didn't care and members of the board who had no clue about football. Not sure if that's their issue.
 

Gasolin

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I don't know mate.

We seem to be making enough profit to spend over €100m mindlessly on players that don't suit us, like Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann.

The rise of Barcelona (2005-2015) coincided with the rise of social media, that has helped us become a financial juggernaut.
I am not convinced by that mate... but we just have to wait and see how it goes now.
 

Castia

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Thank god that we are rich.

I think that our peak came at the perfect time. Barca was the best club from 2005-2015. Over the course of these 10 years, we won more trophies than anyone else and played the best football. The size of our fanbase absolutely exploded around this time. We've also had some global icons playing for us (Messi, Ronaldinho, Neymar) which only increases exposure.

The board are morons, but our popularity and money is saving us right now.
Not sure about that. Most of that money came from selling Neymar.


Read a rumour you have to sell before you can buy at this point.
 

elmo

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They're shit commercially and their on pitch business is being saved by Messi.

They'll be irrelevant once Messi leaves due to how broke they are.
 

UDontMessWith24

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When they were surrounded and being aggressively pressured to change their minds wax it done at least 6 feet away for social distancing
 

simonhch

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- Barca make their own shirts, which means a ton of additional revenue as they keep 100% of sales but they also hear all the production and infrastructure costs, without the operational efficiencies or economies of scale of a larger producer. So the margins are razor thin.
- Barca’s revenue number counts in all sporting operations including revenue from their other professional sport teams.
- Their wage bill also includes all the operating and infrastructure costs of all their professional sports teams.
- Barca count player sales in their total revenue figures.

Comparing the numbers to a PL club for example, is Apples and oranges because of the vast differences in how revenue is calculated. More importantly are the margins, and Barca haemorrhages money in operating expenses. It is horribly run financially. The club took out a loan to. sign Griezmann. Not a partial loan, a full loan for all 105m. That’s a ridiculous risk to take on one player.

Barca’s one saving grace is the inequality of the league and the disparity in TV revenue. If 3 or 4 Spanish clubs got taken over by oil states and Barca ended up finishing 5th one year, because their league was actually competitive; they would be utterly fecked financially.
 

Tom Cato

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Yes they have. Also, is it because of Messi, or Xavi-Iniesta combo? If you look at what Spain vs Argentina have achieved..
So who replaces Messis goal and assist tally?

The point i made about Messi is that there's a fair bit of conicidence into what "running a club" means with regards to the board. The biggest stars of their generation fell into their lap through a mix of good fortune, good job by the scouts, and obviously excellent talent development. But those systems have been in place at Barcelona for decades already.
 

Gasolin

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There is a FX effect for us, and if your answer is to look at your revenue instead of the whole financials...

In your annual reports, you state that your long-term debt is 512m EUR and your short-term debt is 506m EUR, which means that it's at least 1,018m EUR.
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club...c-plan/commissions-and-bodies/annual-reports#

The FX rate was at 1.137 USD = 1 EUR in June 2019, so you had a gross debt of 1,157.46m USD.

In comparison, we had a long-term debt of 511.232m GBP and other commitments of 295.714m GBP, with a total of 806.964m GBP (those commitments are more related to players payments, and there is optionality involved depending of the performance of those players).

https://ir.manutd.com/financial-information/annual-reports/2019.aspx

The FX rate was at 1.26993 USD = 1 GBP in June 2019, so we had a gross debt of 1,024.78m USD.

So on papers, we're supposed to be comparable. You have more revenue, but you also have more debt.
You even managed to say that your net debt is "only" 217m EUR, and the adjusted net debt of 137m EUR, or 246.729m USD and 155.769m USD.

Our net debt is supposed to be 203.595m GBP or 258.55m USD.

Yet, Barcelona FC needs help from public funds due to COVID-19, and Manchester United did not need help... why?

Interestingly enough, Barcelona has 158.362m EUR of cash or 180m USD.
United has 307.637m GBP of cash or 390.6m USD.

In term of revenue, Barcelona states a revenue of 836.730m EUR or 951.36m USD.
United states a revenue of 627.122m GBP or 796.4m USD.

But as you can see, the FX impacts greatly our revenue. The GBP used to be around 1.3 or even 1.4 just a couple of years ago. With those rates, we would be much closer to your revenue, with lower debts, and far more cash.

Let's summarize anyway.

Revenue (m USD)LT debt + ST debt (m USD)Cash and cash equivalent (m USD)
Manchester United796.41,024.78390.6
Barcelona FC951.361,157.46180
Delta(154.96)(132.68)110.6

So we have less revenue, maybe, but less debt in a similar magnitude, and more cash.
But if your financial situation is so much greater, you shouldn't need any help from anyone, no?

Am I bored? Yes.
 

Tom Cato

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- Barca make their own shirts, which means a ton of additional revenue as they keep 100% of sales but they also hear all the production and infrastructure costs, without the operational efficiencies or economies of scale of a larger producer. So the margins are razor thin.
- Barca’s revenue number counts in all sporting operations including revenue from their other professional sport teams.
- Their wage bill also includes all the operating and infrastructure costs of all their professional sports teams.
- Barca count player sales in their total revenue figures.

Comparing the numbers to a PL club for example, is Apples and oranges because of the vast differences in how revenue is calculated. More importantly are the margins, and Barca haemorrhages money in operating expenses. It is horribly run financially. The club took out a loan to. sign Griezmann. Not a partial loan, a full loan for all 105m. That’s a ridiculous risk to take on one player.

Barca’s one saving grace is the inequality of the league and the disparity in TV revenue. If 3 or 4 Spanish clubs got taken over by oil states and Barca ended up finishing 5th one year, because their league was actually competitive; they would be utterly fecked financially.
Griezman hasn't even been able todefend his pricetag. 14 goals in 37 appearances, including 8 for 26 in the league is nowhere near what Barcelona wanted fort hat kind of money. There's most likely more than one Barca fan that cries in Haaland when they look to Europe this season.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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- Barca make their own shirts, which means a ton of additional revenue as they keep 100% of sales but they also hear all the production and infrastructure costs, without the operational efficiencies or economies of scale of a larger producer. So the margins are razor thin.
- Barca’s revenue number counts in all sporting operations including revenue from their other professional sport teams.
- Their wage bill also includes all the operating and infrastructure costs of all their professional sports teams.
- Barca count player sales in their total revenue figures.

Comparing the numbers to a PL club for example, is Apples and oranges because of the vast differences in how revenue is calculated. More importantly are the margins, and Barca haemorrhages money in operating expenses. It is horribly run financially. The club took out a loan to. sign Griezmann. Not a partial loan, a full loan for all 105m. That’s a ridiculous risk to take on one player.

Barca’s one saving grace is the inequality of the league and the disparity in TV revenue. If 3 or 4 Spanish clubs got taken over by oil states and Barca ended up finishing 5th one year, because their league was actually competitive; they would be utterly fecked financially.
Yes I do wonder what Barca's financial position would look like had they not benefited from such a lopsided distribution of TV revenue for La Liga clubs in their and Real Madrid's favour for such a long-time, alongside other advantages / benefits not enjoyed by the likes of Utd and Bayern including municipal support and some very 'dubious' practices over the years. I've also thought that disparity in TV revenue amongst La Liga clubs has benefited them in the Champions League over the years. Laporta agreed with that.

They had to take out a large bank loan to pay their players wages during the summer of 2010, and in 2014/2015 when they won their second treble behind the scenes they were terrified about the additional performance bonuses that they would have to pay out.
 

Dave Smith

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Barca's finances are horrible, I mean they had to take a loan to buy Griezmann and this year their income is going to be even lower. On top of this, their wage bill is around 78% of earnings, but those earnings include transfer fee income unlike most other clubs. There debt is something like €800m and they do not even have a modern stadium.

Even without this situation, Barca were heading to a situation where they either needed to get in a rich owner or start cutting their cloth accordingly. This Covid situation will just accelerate the process.
 

BigDunc9

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And yet your profits are shrinking due to how unsustainable your club's financial planning are.

Your club is fecked once Messi leaves unless you've a ready made replacement waiting in your academy.
Do you think Barca fans would even care ? They have just went through what is probably the most successful period of any club ever and have witnessed 3 of the greatest teams of all time in those 10 years and have had the luxury of watching some of the greatest footballers of all time play every week. It is impossible to sustain that level of success once those great players start retiring because you can never really replace players likes of Xavi and Messi. I think any level headed fan will be happy that they got to witness it all and that it's expected the team will drop a level or two back to normality.
 

ReddBalls

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Do you think Barca fans would even care ? They have just went through what is probably the most successful period of any club ever and have witnessed 3 of the greatest teams of all time in those 10 years and have had the luxury of watching some of the greatest footballers of all time play every week. It is impossible to sustain that level of success once those great players start retiring because you can never really replace players likes of Xavi and Messi. I think any level headed fan will be happy that they got to witness it all and that it's expected the team will drop a level or two back to normality.
Like United fans post Fergie?
 

Gopher Brown

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Why would they? They got Messi and Suarez. Challenged and won titles. As long as you win, no-one will criticize you.
Not many clubs could afford to sign Coutinho for £140m then loan him out 18 months later. I know that was the Neymar money, but I’d like to see any company essentially throw away that kind of investment.
 

elmo

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Do you think Barca fans would even care ? They have just went through what is probably the most successful period of any club ever and have witnessed 3 of the greatest teams of all time in those 10 years and have had the luxury of watching some of the greatest footballers of all time play every week. It is impossible to sustain that level of success once those great players start retiring because you can never really replace players likes of Xavi and Messi. I think any level headed fan will be happy that they got to witness it all and that it's expected the team will drop a level or two back to normality.
Do you even know how fecked their finances are?

They'll probably do a Leeds United once Messi retires and have a fire-sale to get rid of all their players.
 
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simonhch

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There is a FX effect for us, and if your answer is to look at your revenue instead of the whole financials...

In your annual reports, you state that your long-term debt is 512m EUR and your short-term debt is 506m EUR, which means that it's at least 1,018m EUR.
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club...c-plan/commissions-and-bodies/annual-reports#

The FX rate was at 1.137 USD = 1 EUR in June 2019, so you had a gross debt of 1,157.46m USD.

In comparison, we had a long-term debt of 511.232m GBP and other commitments of 295.714m GBP, with a total of 806.964m GBP (those commitments are more related to players payments, and there is optionality involved depending of the performance of those players).

https://ir.manutd.com/financial-information/annual-reports/2019.aspx

The FX rate was at 1.26993 USD = 1 GBP in June 2019, so we had a gross debt of 1,024.78m USD.

So on papers, we're supposed to be comparable. You have more revenue, but you also have more debt.
You even managed to say that your net debt is "only" 217m EUR, and the adjusted net debt of 137m EUR, or 246.729m USD and 155.769m USD.

Our net debt is supposed to be 203.595m GBP or 258.55m USD.

Yet, Barcelona FC needs help from public funds due to COVID-19, and Manchester United did not need help... why?

Interestingly enough, Barcelona has 158.362m EUR of cash or 180m USD.
United has 307.637m GBP of cash or 390.6m USD.

In term of revenue, Barcelona states a revenue of 836.730m EUR or 951.36m USD.
United states a revenue of 627.122m GBP or 796.4m USD.

But as you can see, the FX impacts greatly our revenue. The GBP used to be around 1.3 or even 1.4 just a couple of years ago. With those rates, we would be much closer to your revenue, with lower debts, and far more cash.

Let's summarize anyway.

Revenue (m USD)LT debt + ST debt (m USD)Cash and cash equivalent (m USD)
Manchester United796.41,024.78390.6
Barcelona FC951.361,157.46180
Delta(154.96)(132.68)110.6

So we have less revenue, maybe, but less debt in a similar magnitude, and more cash.
But if your financial situation is so much greater, you shouldn't need any help from anyone, no?

Am I bored? Yes.
Barca also including player trading in revenue as well as income from all their other professional teams. So it's not purely football related. They also make their own shirts, so they have higher revenue from shirt sale, which looks good on revenue numbers, but the margins just aren't there, and they also carry all the costs and risks as a result.
 

VorZakone

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Do you even know how fecked their finances are?

They'll probably do a Leeds United once Messi retires and have a fire-sale to get rid of all their players.
We're talking about FC Barcelona here. Catalonia will do anything to save the club.
 

Gasolin

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We're talking about FC Barcelona here. Catalonia will do anything to save the club.
Maybe, unless the virus is providing other priorities than a football club.
See how Softbank is posting losses in Japan and the BOJ cannot help them because... well there are other priorities due to the virus right now.
 

Jacob

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I never bother reading the article, I go straight to the comments. Is it just me?