Barcelona with hindsight

[AkaAkuma]

What could they have done differently pre-Neymar being sold?

Ofcourse the Messi contract is outlandish but also the Dembele / Coutinho / Griezmann transfers havent helped.

I think that Neymar move culminated in the Messi contract and terrible transfer wastage. If he had stayed, things may well have been different with the Neymar/Suarez/Messi trio remaining intact.

Who could they have signed to avoid this mess?

 

[VorZakone]

It's actually bizarre how little productivity they've gotten out of Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann.

That's 3 marquee signings in a row that haven't worked out as they hoped.

 

[Rozay]

What could they have done differently pre-Neymar being sold?

Ofcourse the Messi contract is outlandish but also the Dembele / Coutinho / Griezmann transfers havent helped.

I think that Neymar move culminated in the Messi contract and terrible transfer wastage. If he had stayed, things may well have been different with the Neymar/Suarez/Messi trio remaining intact.

Who could they have signed to avoid this mess?

Those signings were post-Neymar right?

 

[Sky1981]

They'll have teething problem for a while post messi. But give a few years They'll head back on.

Just another transition

 

[AkaAkuma]

It's actually bizarre how little productivity they've gotten out of Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann.

That's 3 marquee signings in a row that haven't worked out as they hoped.

Those signings were post-Neymar right?

Yeah, my post is alittle muddled. Personally I believe they should have had the foresight to put a bigger release on Neymar, but thats hindsight.

Neymar leaving resulted in paying 2 times his fee on wasted transfers and the knock on effect of inflating Messi's wages

 

[Zehner]

They've done many things wrong - Dembele was always a bad fit stylistically, as well as Paulinho and Vidal, while Griezmann occupies too much of the spaces Messi operates in - but they made their biggest mistakes regarding manager appointments, I believe.

Valverde, Setien and Koeman are absolutely average. Even Enrique wasn't really anything special. It's tellingnthat no other top clubs tried to sign them afterwards. I think that's a huge part of the reason those transfers ended up having so shockingly bad value for money.

IMO they should've gone for Sarri, Tuchel, Bielsa, Ten Haag etc. - coaches who admire Cruyff's and Pep's style.

They also ignored many great La Masia products. It's telling that now the academy is their only hope for improvement again with players such as Fati, Puig and Pedri. Three elite talents just gifted to them, probably worth 200 million on the pre covid market.

 

[AkaAkuma]

They'll have teething problem for a while post messi. But give a few years They'll head back on.

Just another transition

I dont see it personally, it could take 5-10years to get back to ultra competitive. The last 4 years have been weak in comparision to the preceeding 4yrs.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Ive had a look at their transfers over the last 4 seasons and to be fair, they havent had a large turn over and have generally recouped decent fees. Semedo, Mina, Gomes, Cillesen left for decent fees.

I think theyve probably let the wage bill get out of hand for players like Busquets, Alba etc.

Add to that a terrible transfer record? How could it have been different?

 

[Jezpeza]

For my money they abandoned the idea of having a core of academy talent supplemented by signing proven players from LaLiga and just threw money at it. Spent upwards of two hundred million on dembele and coutinho in the same year without thinking if coutinho would truly fit their system and if dembele had actually proved enough for that outlay at that age.
Wasn’t helped by their equivalent of the class of 92 ageing out as well.

added factor of the premier league driving up the prices of players from portugese and smaller laliga club.

never really liked them much anyway. They were in a two/three horse race with real and atletico every season and relied mainly on messi. Always found them full of cynical fouls a bit like wengers arsenal. You can say all you like about the attacking football but watch tapes of them from back then and spot the fouls they put in on you in your own half every time they lose the ball high up the park. Never ever got booked for them but stopped you breaking forward every time

 

[fps]

Every single signing I can think of post Neymar except Frenkie has been a disaster. Some of their midfield buys have been flat out weird, and Dembele is like when Liverpool bought Andy Carroll with the Torres money.

 

[DWelbz19]

Every single signing I can think of post Neymar except Frenkie has been a disaster. Some of their midfield buys have been flat out weird, and Dembele is like when Liverpool bought Andy Carroll with the Torres money.

Honestly. Look at this list. How many hits? Even the years leading up to Neymar leaving were terrible!

2015/16: Aleix Vidal and Arda Turan (both of whom couldn’t play until January 2016)

2016/17: Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Samuel Umtiti, Lucas Digne, Jasper Cillessen, Denis Suarez.

2017/18: (The year Neymar leaves)
Ousmane Dembele, Phil Coutinho, Paulinho, Nelson Semedo, Yerry Mina, Gerard Deulofeu, Marlon (who?)

2018/19: Arthur, Arturo Vidal, Malcom, Clement Lenglet, Jean Clair Todibo

2019/20: Antoine Griezmann, Frenkie de Jong, Martin Braithwaite, Neto, Junior Firpo, Emerson, Marc Cucurella

Outrageously bad signings. Negligent stuff.

 

[fps]

Honestly. Look at this list. How many hits? Even the years leading up to Neymar leaving were terrible!

2015/16: Aleix Vidal and Arda Turan (both of whom couldn’t play until January 2016)

2016/17: Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Samuel Umtiti, Lucas Digne, Jasper Cillessen, Denis Suarez.

2017/18: (The year Neymar leaves)
Ousmane Dembele, Phil Coutinho, Paulinho, Nelson Semedo, Yerry Mina, Gerard Deulofeu, Marlon (who?)

2018/19: Arthur, Arturo Vidal, Malcom, Clement Lenglet, Jean Clair Todibo

2019/20: Antoine Griezmann, Frenkie de Jong, Martin Braithwaite, Neto, Junior Firpo, Emerson, Marc Cucurella

Outrageously bad signings. Negligent stuff.

What a grab bag! Great list! And so many of them so un-Barcelona. Anyone could tell you Dembele or Vidal lack touch to play in their style, Griezmann lacks destroyer dynamism to be a forward for them, Coutinho ok he looked a sure thing as a talent but where in Barca’s system? Left wing? Iniesta role? Barca didn’t know for sure. Paulinho?! In a Barcelona midfield?! The lack of character in so many of these names also shines through.

 

[Lay]

They probably the worst at making transfers. Shockingly bad fits. They also have hired uninspiring managers. Why did they never pursue Gallardo at River Plate?

I wouldn’t take many of their players currently and I don’t think we are that great either.

 

[Judas]

A lot of it isn't even in hindsight too, so many of their transfer choices were called odd in recent years. So many just nothingy players. They've taken risks with a few, and yeah you're going to look dumb if they flop it happens to loads of teams, but just so few have worked.

 

[JPRouve]

It's actually bizarre how little productivity they've gotten out of Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann.

That's 3 marquee signings in a row that haven't worked out as they hoped.

It's not bizarre, Dembélé has been productive outside of injuries which weren't really forseable. And they purchased Coutinho and Griezmann without a plan on how to integrate them into the team, the main issue with Barcelona since 2017 has been that their plan A, B and C have been to give the ball to Messi and let him score or assist. Football doesn't work well in that kind of environment, 99% of footballers only thrive in a system that involves and suits them.

 

[Lentwood]

It's actually bizarre how little productivity they've gotten out of Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann.

That's 3 marquee signings in a row that haven't worked out as they hoped.

I don’t think throwing money at supposed quick-fixes ever really works. I can sort of understand the signing of Dembele, although they overpaid by a ludicrous amount. To be fair, he has struggled with injuries and that could just be bad luck.

The other two where poor signings for me. People get excited about marquee names moving on but once a player gets past 26/27, I think they become poor investments. They are usually beyond the point whereby they can be coached or adapt their game too much, so to expect them to come into a new team, with new tactics, formations and players is a big ask.

 

[anant]

I don't think it's just transfers - Dembele, Coutinho, Griezmann, Arthur, etc. were great players and people expected them to be success. But at the same time, one has to wonder why they signed players like Vidal, Paulinho, etc. as they had no business playing for Barca - not when they were past it especially.

I think the biggest issue has been that they've let Messi become bigger than the club. The wages they're paying him (not that he isn't worth it, but because they can't afford it) means that a proper rebuilding is never really possible. Because of financial constraints, their signings have been reminiscent of what we were doing under Mou - incredibly short term and of players who won't be able to get them at the top even in the short term

 

[Gehrman]

It's weird that they have gone for bang average managers since Guardiola. It makes no sense really.

 

[giorno]

I mean, they can't afford Messi's contract because of COVID. They were more or less fine before. Heavily reliant on sales, but still. EBITDA was fine, and they were still turning a profit...

 

[Sky1981]

I dont see it personally, it could take 5-10years to get back to ultra competitive. The last 4 years have been weak in comparision to the preceeding 4yrs.

4 to 5 years is nothing in the grand scheme of history.

We're on 7th season post fergie. Time flies

 

[Schneckerl]

Pretty much every notable incoming transfer performed worse for them than they did at their previous club. Something more going on there than just buying the wrong players.

 

[bosnian_red]

They'll have teething problem for a while post messi. But give a few years They'll head back on.

Just another transition

More likely they do a Milan and take years of mediocrity before coming back. Theyre in huge financial trouble that even Messi alone leaving won't solve. Under the huge pressure to still perform, throwing away so much money on bad transfers, offering wages they can't actually afford... they're fecked IMO. Messi leaving will accelerate their demise on the pitch but they can't even pay their current wages. As a football club they're heading towards big big trouble because of inept management and thinking they can get away with paying so much.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Sterling, Bernardo, D.Silva, De Bruyne, Hazard (4yrs ago).

 

[FootballHQ]

From what I saw Dembele had good spells of form but would then get an injury at exactly the wrong time which would disrupt momentum and with Ansu Fati coming through in last 18 months makes him expendable.

Greizmann wonderful player but yeah not a good fit while Messi still remains at the club.

One thing I really dislike about Barca strategy is how they sign players seemingly with sole ambition of them moving them on six -12 months later.

Take Yerry Mina. They signed him in January 2018 and then sold him to Everton six months later. Lucas Digne imo is good enough for Barca and he lasted two years there. I watched plenty of Andre Gomes at Valencia and my scouting report would've been talented ball player but weak mentality when side is struggling. He seemed to play about 5 games for them before they came to that conclusion.

Signed a whole stack of them (Paco Alcacer another) in 2016 they were just loaning out two years later or selling on. At least with Real Madrid they loan out young players first like Reguillon, Odegaard and Hakimi and when they come back the path to first team is still blocked so they sell them but there's some logic.

Barca mentality too often is we can flip them pretty quickly with the premier league coming calling but in the case of Dembele and Coutinho that hasn't happened in last six months.

 

[Tallis]

If they can resolve their financial issues and they don’t become catastrophic, I think they can start challenging again in the post Messi era. They have some top class young talent coming through - Fati, Pedri, De Jong along with other promising youth players (Dest, Trincao, Puig). Their academy will also provide great young talent and they will always be attractive destination for players.

They should get rid of their deadwood ASAP.

 

[Skills]

They could've started with not signing Coutinho and Dembele.

Messi and Suarez duo was enough to drag them to another CL title in 2019 if they had a better defense and midfield.

 

[Dancfc]

They're signing system players but failing to appoint the appropriate manager's who make a team better than the sum of it's parts.

The manager's they appoint suit a more Galactico approach to player recruitment.

 

[Bubz27]

They'll have teething problem for a while post messi. But give a few years They'll head back on.

Just another transition

Before Messi they had one CL right? Maybe 2 if you include that one v Arsenal as pre-Messi.

The Messi era at Barca is an outlier. Their normal is much less successful than the Messi period. Quite considerably so, in fact.

 

[Sky1981]

Before Messi they had one CL right? Maybe 2 if you include that one v Arsenal as pre-Messi.

The Messi era at Barca is an outlier. Their normal is much less successful than the Messi period. Quite considerably so, in fact.

We also only have 2 during saf. These things are normal. Messi coming made it not normal. Same with ronaldo with real madrid.

They're too big to fail, finishing 3rd for a few years is their bottom line i think.

They still have immense pull on south American talent, la massia and being the top 2 sides in spain as well ae ability to poach star players from europe.

They'll be fine i think.

But then again just my prediftion

 

[Bubz27]

We also only have 2 during saf. These things are normal. Messi coming made it not normal. Same with ronaldo with real madrid.

They're too big to fail, finishing 3rd for a few years is their bottom line i think.

They still have immense pull on south American talent, la massia and being the top 2 sides in spain as well ae ability to poach star players from europe.

They'll be fine i think.

But then again just my prediftion

Not really, that's my point. Madrid had 9 before Ronaldo. It's in their history. United had 1 before SAF. We aren't one of the big boys when it comes to the CL. Barca were like us pre-Messi.

It's difficult to remember now, but Barca had huge periods where they weren't competing for titles, let alone Champions Leagues.

 

[Oranges038]

The way I look at it if you exclude Neymar, they lost half a team in Valdes, Puyol, Xavi, Alves and Iniesta over those years also. Never even came close to replacing them, there is a level of professionalism, respect and experience that those guys brought along with their footballing ability.

Regardless of how they spent the money, these guys were almost impossible to replace properly in such a short period to maintain the levels expected.

Just so happens the money they did spend was wasted because they went after a few big names and players who were projected to have high potential rather than players who fit into the way the team is expected to play.