Bellingham 150m / Rice 100m

[NoPace]

Put a quality player in a dross team and eventually he will get dragged down the their level.

Rice needs a change - he’s been at West Ham too long. Under Ten Hag and surrounded by quality players, he would shine. He’s clearly not Casemiro level, but then again Casemiro has never had to play for years under Moyes at West Ham.

100m would be crazy, but it's not easy to convince another Premier League player to part with their best player. West Ham just spent 200mil and have very little to show for it.

I wonder if they could somehow get a proper name manager and convince him to stay on a short extension. They're in London and Villa just got Emery, so it's possible they could get say Pochettino. A team like this could actually be good:


-------Scamacca-Bowen
--AM-------Paqueta-------
--------Rice----#8------------
Emerson----------------RB
-----Aguerd---Zouma-------
-------------Areola---------------

with the right manager. Only Zouma, Rice and Bowen are suited to Moyes-ball, but if they get the 3 signings right and can somehow convince Rice to stay (with say a release clause if they're not 7) I'd say they have a chance. Those are all good players and none of them are past it.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I would absolutely not want Bellingham for £100 million, he’s a Pogba type but works harder.

I think Ten Hag is after specialists, he has his intelligent DM now he needs a technical playmaker in the mould of a young Ericksen or De Jong, this to me is an actual plan and shows where we are trying to go.

Fred, Ericksen, Casemiro, De Jong is brilliant for gong into next season, quality balanced midfielders are like golddust in football almost as rare as strikers. One in one out from there I think. Bruno is the key piece though I feel if he was out we could lack creativity but I trust Ten Haag to sort all this out anyway which is beautiful, finally attractive football isnt far away.

Not quite, ETH wants someone that can competently carry and dribble in that 8 spot as it's the main deficiency of our midfield in that we have terrible carriers of the ball. Bellingham fits that mould perfectly, although he would play the position more similar to Fred in that he would be an unleashed box to box 8 as opposed to De Jong being more of a central metronome. Both styles work and both would be great signings. De Jong is probably my first choice as he's going to be cheaper, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't love watching Bellingham charge through the midfield in front of Casemiro either

 

[Joel Miller]

I’d love to see Bellingham at United but gut instinct says Madrid will end up going for him.

 

[77]

I'd have Bellingham over Hoose Rice any day

 

[lex talionis]

The hype train on Rice is unbelievable. I was in London a few weeks ago and the media kept talking about how great Rice is and how anyone who doesn't rate him at the top of the world at his position is out of their mind. I've watched him closely when I watch West Ham, who aren't that interesting to watch to be honest, and Rice just isn't all that. Decent, sure; several notches above McTominay, without question; but nowhere near best in class at his position even in the PL, let alone the planet.

 

[bosnian_red]

Don't want either at those prices. Both are class but also, neither fit Ten Hag too well. We need a playmaker, a passer. And we need a young DM to learn from casemiro and possibly take over in 4 years (and fill in as a partner when needed while they progress). Bellingham is more box to box or attacking, I don't think he's the right type that Ten Hag would ideally want next to Casemiro. Frenkie is still the dream

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I didn't watch Bellingham enough but he can't be worth 150 mil.
About Rice he is so overrated, Casemiro is 3x the player he will ever be.

I guess ETH is smart enough to choose someone else.

 

[2cents]

From July:

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I’m absolutely confident he won’t be bandwagoned into blowing our budget on either of these two.

 

[Renegade]

is Rice any better than Scott Parker?

 

[Floyd]

is Rice any better than Scott Parker?

Good shout! Rice is better yes, but Parker is the player he reminds me of the most.

Rice reads the game better and is even more physical.

 

[11101]

No way we pay 100m for Rice. He ran rings around McTominay but when Casemiro came on we saw what a 100m player should look like. They are levels apart.

 

[Dan_F]

I can’t see any reason why we’d consider Rice while hopefully getting another two or three years out of Casemiro as a starter. How fecking great would it be if he could adapt his game to play deep into his thirties like Carrick.

The lad at Fulham looks far better value than Rice as a rotation option for Casemiro.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I have Schneiderlin vibes with him, crazy overrated. Really only English people rate him as some top class player. He has so incredibly little to show for it. Anywhere over 50 million would be a stretch, because of English tax, you can take it up to 70 million.

He's shown time and time again, that there's nothing special about him. Solid DM, and that's it.

Casemiro, Rodri and even Partey are levels above him. Would prefer Palhinha to him as well, that's PL alone.

 

[glasgow 21]

Neither please, we have for too long been a cash cow for building other teams. There is nothing in Rice makes me go whoa, what a player, we need to get him. Media hype we have had that with Maguire. A 100 million player needs to affects games and Rice doesn't. Casemiro came on and it was magic dust. He stands there with his WD40 oiling the cogs of Utd team.
Bellingham i don't have enough information as i don't see German games week in week. I have no opinion either way other than it would be another one of those "Snubchester" headlines when he moves to Madrid and he has stated a love for Liverpool which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[T00lsh3d]

From July:

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I’m absolutely confident he won’t be bandwagoned into blowing our budget on either of these two.

I reckon the ‘British core’ argument held some weight about 15 years ago, when the premier league was much physically tougher than other leagues, and some foreign players didn’t actually like getting the shit kicked out of them every Saturday. Times have changed now. Plus, the national team and international football in general just holds so much less weight with the public. England playing was massive when I was young, now it’s just a shite distraction from the domestic game

 

[saivet]

I have Schneiderlin vibes with him, crazy overrated. Really only English people rate him as some top class player. He has so incredibly little to show for it. Anywhere over 50 million would be a stretch, because of English tax, you can take it up to 70 million.

He's shown time and time again, that there's nothing special about him. Solid DM, and that's it.

Casemiro, Rodri and even Partey are levels above him. Would prefer Palhinha to him as well, that's PL alone.

I don't think anyone actually rates him as a £100m player aside from West Ham and possibly their fans. I think he's a very good player and generally agree if you're desperate for a DM then £70m may be worth the punt but his valuation is just too high. That said in the current market, with Phillips costing City £45m his price tag should definitely be over £50m.

With Casemiro at the club, signing him for United doesn't make sense for us or even Rice himself.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

One of my friends works for a bank that does Premier League transfer finances and put a message in our WhatsApp group that West Ham have received a bid of £80 million for Declan Rice. Doesn't know which club it is though.

 

[georgipep]

One of my friends works for a bank that does Premier League transfer finances and put a message in our WhatsApp group that West Ham have received a bid of £80 million for Declan Rice. Doesn't know which club it is though.

"Tell your friend" that that's not how transfer bids work.

Good try though. 2/10

 

[DiceRoller]

Bellingham isn’t worth 150mil currently. He’s good of course and will improve a lot over the next 5 years. But he’s still learning and won’t be consistent in the prem at a high level if he moves here next summer. We know how it’s been for Sancho and I’d say Sancho was better during his stint at dortmund than Bellingham has been.

Sancho played in a much better Dortmund side. He had Haaland up front sure.

I wouldn’t be using Sancho as the benchmark for Bellingham. As much as I like Sancho, I just see Bellingham as a future star far beyond Sancho.

A lot of players struggle to adapt to PL and English football but he was playing Championship football at 16/17.
I think he’d perform exceptionally in the PL. He has everything in his game to do so.

 

[groovyalbert]

is Rice any better than Scott Parker?

I think Rice is where Scott Parker could have possibly got to had he not made the wrong career move.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Rice is nowhere near worth 100m.

I'm not even sure he's good enough for a top side to be honest. I think Newcastle/Spurs currently is his level. A side fighting for top 4.

 

[MadMike]

Right.. I see you are a financial expert.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/losses-widen-125m-manchester-united-25081924

United has a pre tax loss of £150m and £25m year before. Do you know how much Manutd spent?

Also, FSG have clearly said they are looking for investment and they are confident they will get it.

Do you know we spent 240m euros this season finishing 6th, R016 in CL?

Whilst having recorded pre tax losses, when Liverpool have recorded profit.

Thank you!

United's owners have been quite happy to borrow heavily in the name of the club and saddle it with debt. We're at £1B debt as things stand.

FSG have not been that happy to take out debt. For them it's mixture of market debt and owner funding/loans. Most of the debt taken out is for stadium expansion.

And the owners have not invested their own money since 2016.

Could they sell debt in the financial markets to finance transfers? Yes. Could they also find minority investors? Perhaps yes. Although that doesn't mean those investors would be happy to loan money to the club when the m,ajority shareholder ist still FSG.

The current owners indicated they can't (or don't want to) invest alone going forward. Unless they start issuing debt like us, I don't see how they'll have significant money to spend in the summer, especially as the club's income contracts. Never mind £300m. They don't even have any valuable players they can sell at the moment.

I would expect no more than £150m gross spend for Liverpool in the summer. Unless they issue major debt. Which I have serious doubts they will.

 

[romufc]

Thank you!

United's owners have been quite happy to borrow heavily in the name of the club and saddle it with debt. We're at £1B debt as it stand

FSG have not been that happy to take out debt. For them it's mixture of market debt and owner funding/loans. Most of the debt taken out is for stadium expansion.

And the owners have not invested their own money since 2016.

Could they sell debt in the financial markets to finance transfers? Yes. Could they also find minority investors? Perhaps yes. Although that doesn't mean those investors would be happy to loan money to the club.

The current owners indicated they can't (or don't want to) invest alone going forward. Unless they start issuing debt like us, I don't see how they'll have significant money to spend as their incomes contract. Never mind £300m. They don't even have valuable players they can sell at the moment.

I would expect no more than £150 gross spend for Liverpool in the summer. Unless they take out major debt.

Yes, £150m is good gross spend when you are good at selling. They can raise 60-80m by selling players.

I always find it intriguing that people think there will be a transfer battle for these players, I cannot remember the last time there was a bidding war for a player.

Dortmund will probably sell Jude for 120m and whoever pays that will get him.

 

[Zoo]

One of my friends works for a bank that does Premier League transfer finances and put a message in our WhatsApp group that West Ham have received a bid of £80 million for Declan Rice. Doesn't know which club it is though.

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Lot of noise about him joining Arsenal.

 

[RedRoach]

Never been impressed by Rice. Don't get the hype. Very limited player with English tax on top. No thanks.

 

[Lay]

I’d rather sign someone like Anguissa

 

[MadMike]

Yes, £150m is good gross spend when you are good at selling. They can raise 60-80m by selling players.

I always find it intriguing that people think there will be a transfer battle for these players, I cannot remember the last time there was a bidding war for a player.

Dortmund will probably sell Jude for 120m and whoever pays that will get him.

But don't you see my point now? He's too expensive for them. If Liverpool spend £150m gross this summer (£70-100m net) on transfers, then even if Bellingham costs £120m that's 4/5s of their summer budget. The other £30m would only suffice to buy a squad player. No one sells players of the quality Liverpool need of their starting XI, for only £30m.

But 1 starter is not enough for Liverpool. They need a starting centre back and a couple of starting midfielders for sure. Unless they want to target some free signings like Rabiot, Tielemans or NDicka dumping all their budget on Jude would be ill advised.

 

[Abraxas]

He's had a disappointing season. Yes he's in a poor side, but that is even more reason to look head and shoulders above. This is a point Keane made, and I think he's right. Perhaps he has gone stale there, I think he spent too long at West Ham for the ability he had at a young age, but that's because he signed a lengthy contract and is at a relatively well off PL club, so it's his own doing.

Also West Ham should not be as shite as they are. On paper it's not a bad side at all. Terrible management.

 

[Bebestation]

I remember between ndidi & rice. People overrated ndidi so much

 

[Ayoba]

I actually didnt even realise Rice was playing till around the 75th minute when the commentator mentioned his name. He was up against our 2nd tier midfield for an entire 45 minutes and didnt even make a mark!

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Rice gives me flashbacks to that spell John O’Shea had playing cm, can position himself alright defensively but otherwise he’s just a body

 

[cyberman]

I see he’s got the run out to the camera and front up for plaudits strategy down to a T

 

[NinjaZombie]

Declan Rice is the most overrated player in the league. He's not done anything of note and doesn't look to have the ability to warrant the prices being quoted for him. I reckon you'd see similar noises about Scott McTominay if he were English and played for Everton or something.

I believe we overpaid for Antony, but I'd take a 100m Antony over a 100m rice.

 

[Sassy Colin]

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Lot of noise about him joining Arsenal.

It's almost like they read RedCafe and then make up stories to fit.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Both of these will make Liverpool a force in Europe again according to Garth Crooks


Not surprising from Crooks. I Remember him putting a defender in his team of the week a few years ago because he scored despite the fact the team he was playing for (may have been Cardiff) conceded 5 goals in the same game

 

[Blood Mage]

Rice ain't good enough, at a push he's Spurs or Newcastle level but that's it. Bellingham is fantastic but for the price there are other similar quality midfielders to be found out there.

 

[RG77]

I’m sure it has been discussed, but really baffled by how overpriced and to be honest overrated a lot of English players are. I get some kind of bias playing a part, but with a lot of them it seemingly looks like the pundits/media/fans etc. actually believe it as well. And the bidding wars and prices these players go for suggests that the clubs do as well…though that could of course partly be due to being desperate.

From, admittedly not very much, I’ve seen of Rice…like what is it? I honestly fail to see what he apparently does so well that warrants the hype. Very conservative on the ball and overall incredibly limited when having to do more than just stop the opposition (whether it is 1v1 or closing down spaces). Not to mention how he’d fare when the team is pressing high up front and prone to counter attacks…that is an entire different ball game than sitting deep the way West Ham does.

United would do well of staying clear of these types of signings, guess with Casemiro you got it covered already for the DM position.

Bellingham I cannot say, have seen too little of him to properly make an assessment. But same principle applies really, it would be a waste of money to spend so much on one player.

 

[El Jefe]

People go on about Bruno but Bellingham isn't half a massive twat himself. There is clearly a pattern of him being a sore loser but bordering on pathetic. Be interesting to see if he's judged as harshly as Bruno if he joins the PL because he waves his arms in the air and moans just as much as him.

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[weetee]

Agreed. Not sure how he does when playing at the NT but at Dortmund he seems like big fish in small pond regarding his standing in the club. He's still very young and I can see the argument that another season there would help him to develop but at the same time imho he needs to be grounded as well which won't happen if he stays there longer and becomes even more influential.

That said: would love seeing him winning the title over Bayern with this rather mediocre Dortmund side.

 

[Just Hope]

Well to be fair bruno is 28 and Bellingham 19, kids do be cnuts.