Darren Fletcher. Trusted to play in the big games by SAF. Won major trophies.
Best academy player we've produced since the class of 1992?
- Thread starter Vidyoyo
- Start date
Brown
Fletcher
O'Shea
Evans
Rashford
Greenwood
In that order
Fletcher
O'Shea
Evans
Rashford
Greenwood
In that order
Silly post. Has barely played at prem level, cant even get games in the Championship. He was a talented youngster, but the talent never developed.
If not counting Pogba, Pique etc, I would say Wes Brown. Would've been even better without the injuries
Also scored a last minute equalizer for Ireland away to the world champions Germany.
What is the definition? Because if Pique counts, it’s probably him. He’s won it all.
Fun thread!
Is it statistically best or subjective ”best player”? Also is somebody an academy player if they are at all part of academy or if there mothers birthed them in the changing room?
Ill have a go anyway.
The following players should be considered.
Scholes, Neville, Brown, Fletcher, Pique, Rossi, Evans, Wellbeck?, lingard, greenwood, rashford, mctomany. Does Pogba count?
If Pogba counts then its easy. He hasnt always been great, but when he is he is world class and he has won internationally.
Otherwise its tighter. I would go for scholes (only based on what he meant for united, suppose neville could pass with same logic) or rashford (he cant be judged based on this season alone).
(I was never a huge fan of fletcher. Thought he was more mediocre squad player.)
Is it statistically best or subjective ”best player”? Also is somebody an academy player if they are at all part of academy or if there mothers birthed them in the changing room?
Ill have a go anyway.
The following players should be considered.
Scholes, Neville, Brown, Fletcher, Pique, Rossi, Evans, Wellbeck?, lingard, greenwood, rashford, mctomany. Does Pogba count?
If Pogba counts then its easy. He hasnt always been great, but when he is he is world class and he has won internationally.
Otherwise its tighter. I would go for scholes (only based on what he meant for united, suppose neville could pass with same logic) or rashford (he cant be judged based on this season alone).
(I was never a huge fan of fletcher. Thought he was more mediocre squad player.)
Did he? First I've heard of it - which season?
I always liked Fletcher and he was a great pro but he's not even in this discussion IMO
This is probably the best way of looking at it.
In terms of trophies won / contributing to winning them (the big / prestigious ones) it’s Wes Brown.
In terms of talent and application it’s Rashford.
In terms of talent and application it’s Rashford.
He's not. I do remember the expectations for him when he was in the academy were through the roof though, and if memory serves, he played right midfield before a long injury layoff.
Rashford or Greenwood. Pogba s french so it doesn't count as british players. Shout out to Richardson, Campbell, Oshea, Fletcher and Brown
Informative post
A few things.
1. The criteria which is predominantly used to define a youth player is a) actually played in our Academy (or youth team) b) arrived at the club prior to becoming a professional so 17 years old or younger and c) never played first team football professionally elsewhere. These criteria have been cited by numerous bodies including the FA.
2. We have to use the same criteria across all decades so that fair comparisons can be made. A player joining from another Academy at 16/17 in today's game is the equivalent of signing a player from a Boys Youth Club or non'-league club 50 years ago.
3. The Class of 1992 included the following players who made the first team - Pilkington, O'Kane, Casper, Neville, Beckham, Davies, Butt, McKee, Giggs, Thornley, Gillespie.
So in terms of the original question about 'who is the best player we have produced since the Class of 1992' then given the above context the candidates would be:
Paul Scholes, Phil Neville, Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Darren Fletcher, Gerard Pique, Jonny Evans, Danny Welbeck, Ravel Morrison, Paul Pogba, Jesse Lingard, Marcus Rashford, Scott McTominay and Mason Greenwood.
If you then add some additional criteria then it might look like this:
Most Successful: Gerard Pique
Most Successful at United: Paul Scholes
Most Talented: Paul Scholes/Ravel Morrison
Most trophies: Pique/Scholes
Best International: Pique/Pogba/Scholes
Most goals in major finals for United: Jesse Lingard
This is all pretty subjective, and generally speaking we produce players to help United win things rather than other clubs.
So personally I would say the best player we have produced that has contributed to United's success the most since the Class of 1992 is easily Paul Scholes.
After that...Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Evans and hopefully the likes of Rashford and Greenwood in the future.
1. The criteria which is predominantly used to define a youth player is a) actually played in our Academy (or youth team) b) arrived at the club prior to becoming a professional so 17 years old or younger and c) never played first team football professionally elsewhere. These criteria have been cited by numerous bodies including the FA.
2. We have to use the same criteria across all decades so that fair comparisons can be made. A player joining from another Academy at 16/17 in today's game is the equivalent of signing a player from a Boys Youth Club or non'-league club 50 years ago.
3. The Class of 1992 included the following players who made the first team - Pilkington, O'Kane, Casper, Neville, Beckham, Davies, Butt, McKee, Giggs, Thornley, Gillespie.
So in terms of the original question about 'who is the best player we have produced since the Class of 1992' then given the above context the candidates would be:
Paul Scholes, Phil Neville, Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Darren Fletcher, Gerard Pique, Jonny Evans, Danny Welbeck, Ravel Morrison, Paul Pogba, Jesse Lingard, Marcus Rashford, Scott McTominay and Mason Greenwood.
If you then add some additional criteria then it might look like this:
Most Successful: Gerard Pique
Most Successful at United: Paul Scholes
Most Talented: Paul Scholes/Ravel Morrison
Most trophies: Pique/Scholes
Best International: Pique/Pogba/Scholes
Most goals in major finals for United: Jesse Lingard
This is all pretty subjective, and generally speaking we produce players to help United win things rather than other clubs.
So personally I would say the best player we have produced that has contributed to United's success the most since the Class of 1992 is easily Paul Scholes.
After that...Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Evans and hopefully the likes of Rashford and Greenwood in the future.
Pogba reached the highest level, Greenwood seems the most talented, Rashford also up there
Wes Brown is above everyone else being discussed.
Pogba would be number one but it feels like he’s an academy player on a technicality.
Pogba would be number one but it feels like he’s an academy player on a technicality.
Rashford gets a lot of flak, but the way he burst on to the scene was something rarely seen, even from the Class of 92.
I think in terms of overall talent, I'd say it's Greenwood.
I think in terms of overall talent, I'd say it's Greenwood.
08/09
Pique followed by Pogba if we count them.
Fletcher otherwise, although Greenwood should be able to surpass him (sadly, Rashford which looked dead cert to surpass Fletcher, probably is not gonna happen).
Fletcher otherwise, although Greenwood should be able to surpass him (sadly, Rashford which looked dead cert to surpass Fletcher, probably is not gonna happen).
Its Greenwood for me. Ridiculously talented but at risk of us stifling development and hopefully attitude grumbles aren't true
He's not popular because of recency bias of him being in bad form but it's Rashford. He has 92 goals for the club and been a key player for 6 or 7 years and he's only 24 year old. People overrate players in winning teams and underrate players in teams that fall just short. Bryan Robson didn't win a league until he was 35, but doesn't mean someone like Anderson was better than him because he won multiple leagues.
If it’s anyone who has been in our academy for a year or two it has to be Pique. Could argue he had a better career than any of the class of 92 also.
Pogba is next but otherwise proper homegrown I would say Rashford all round. Not just as a footballer but as a man too obvs he’s brought a lot to our club and scored some vital goals in big games. PSG was up there with anything.
Pogba is next but otherwise proper homegrown I would say Rashford all round. Not just as a footballer but as a man too obvs he’s brought a lot to our club and scored some vital goals in big games. PSG was up there with anything.
Think Rashford's already surpassed Fletcher, scoring 20 in back to back seasons is no small feat. Fletcher had a pretty good season in 09/10 (was it?) but if given the choice between either player I'd probably pick Rashford.
Wele'. If not for injuries he would've broken every record.
Wes Brown.
Squaddie during the treble season, undisputed first teamer during the double season.
Brilliant player ruined by injuries.
Squaddie during the treble season, undisputed first teamer during the double season.
Brilliant player ruined by injuries.
Pique's undoubtedly had the best career, without a shadow of a doubt. Weirdly, I don't think he's the best player though, it's difficult to compare as Scholes and Pogba played 2 completely different positions to him. If I was building a team from the ground up I think I'd opt to pick Scholes and Pogba before I chose Pique.
Same. But obviously Scholes is an incredibly high calibre of player to be bested by
If it's a combination of talent x showing it for our first team, then I'd put Wes Brown first, followed by Darren Fletcher. Both of those were sensational as youth players, and ended up being very important parts of much better teams and squads than any since.
It we're talking about talent x showing it at the highest level, then Pique would win, and Pogba would be up there too.
Though having seen all of these play in the youth sides, Wes Brown looked like a far better prospect than Pique ever did, and I still think had the potential to be a real defensive superstar. The gap between Fletcher and Pogba in the youth teams isn't as great as people seem to think, either. I'd say Fletcher was more influential than Pogba in youth football, and not that much less capable of the spectacular. We never saw youth-Fletcher in men's football, though, for whatever reason. As a kid, he looked like a mini-Veron to me. I loved what he became in the end, but it was never what I imagined it would be.
I don't think Rashford's anywhere close. And I say that as someone who is a fan of Rashford and still thinks he is and can be a very important player for us.
Greenwood is an exceptional talent, but no more special than any of the other names mentioned, so it's all about how he translates what he showed as a kid into first-team football. If he can do that, and have the fortune to be part of some good or great United teams, then he could get to the top of the list.
Of course, if Scholes counts as post-CO92, then there's no debate at all.
It we're talking about talent x showing it at the highest level, then Pique would win, and Pogba would be up there too.
Though having seen all of these play in the youth sides, Wes Brown looked like a far better prospect than Pique ever did, and I still think had the potential to be a real defensive superstar. The gap between Fletcher and Pogba in the youth teams isn't as great as people seem to think, either. I'd say Fletcher was more influential than Pogba in youth football, and not that much less capable of the spectacular. We never saw youth-Fletcher in men's football, though, for whatever reason. As a kid, he looked like a mini-Veron to me. I loved what he became in the end, but it was never what I imagined it would be.
I don't think Rashford's anywhere close. And I say that as someone who is a fan of Rashford and still thinks he is and can be a very important player for us.
Greenwood is an exceptional talent, but no more special than any of the other names mentioned, so it's all about how he translates what he showed as a kid into first-team football. If he can do that, and have the fortune to be part of some good or great United teams, then he could get to the top of the list.
Of course, if Scholes counts as post-CO92, then there's no debate at all.
That more people haven't named Paul Scholes ahead of players like Wes Brown should probably be prosecutable
Like, there's literally a who's who of legends of the sport that salivate over his talents as a professional footballer: https://www.givemesport.com/1785980...essi-ronaldo-zidane-and-other-football-greats
Edit: It would of course be helpful to the discussion if one reads more than 50% of the headline before commenting
Like, there's literally a who's who of legends of the sport that salivate over his talents as a professional footballer: https://www.givemesport.com/1785980...essi-ronaldo-zidane-and-other-football-greats
Edit: It would of course be helpful to the discussion if one reads more than 50% of the headline before commenting
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How did Utd fans regard Welbeck when he was Rashford's or Greenwood's age?
More prosecutable than you not reading the thread premise?
Think most generally considered him part of Co92.
2000's: Fletcher was the best we produced followed by Wes Brown & O'Shea.
2010's: Greenwood, Rashford, Januzaj (sad how development ended for him).
2010's: Greenwood, Rashford, Januzaj (sad how development ended for him).
Scholes, Fletcher and Brown.
Pogba, Picque and Beckham for players brought in at 16.
O'Shea and Rossi out of the players brought straight in as pros at 17, but both should probably be excluded as non-academy graduates.
Pogba, Picque and Beckham for players brought in at 16.
O'Shea and Rossi out of the players brought straight in as pros at 17, but both should probably be excluded as non-academy graduates.
Wes Brown. He was a properly brilliant young player whose career was hampered by injury, yet still he was a key player in arguably the Premier League's best ever team. If he had stronger knees he could have been every bit as good as Ferdinand.
Fletcher lacked the outright talent of Brown, but his attitude and ability to stay fit made up for it and gave him an equally successful career.
Greenwood has talent but he still has a very long way to go to and has stalled a bit lately.
Fletcher lacked the outright talent of Brown, but his attitude and ability to stay fit made up for it and gave him an equally successful career.
Greenwood has talent but he still has a very long way to go to and has stalled a bit lately.
Adnan.
Piqué is a weird one. Yeah he was here a while, but he was trained at Barcelona and very famously so as part of their equivalent of Class of 92, signed as a pro here, then went back to Barcelona where he's become a club icon. He just doesn't really feel like a United academy player for me, even if he might technically count.
Welbeck wasn't hyped up as much as Greenwood but maybe the conditions of the club when they were breaking through were too different to make a proper comparison. We were well stocked in trophies and attacking talent back in 2005-2007 during Welbeck's time compared to Greenwood's time.
I follow the reserves and youth to a certain degree but not as much as some on here but I'd never heard of Rashford being talked about as the next big thing before he made his debut. I think his coming into the first team was as explosive and impactful as any Man Utd youth player since Ryan Giggs, maybe even more so.
Think people found him relatively exciting up until about 12/13. Never had the same hype as Rashford and Greenwood though, those two you sort of knew off the back of a few appearances had more to them than Welbeck.
Good post. I've threadmarked it.
what is silly? the original question was ''who was the best youth academy player '' - nothing to do with how many times they played in the Premiership. But anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion. have a nice day
Paul Pogba
Gerard Pique*
Dean Henderson
Marcus Rashford
Danny Drinkwater
Danny Simpson
Mason Greenwood
Michael Keane
Sam Johnstone
Johnny Evans
Wes Brown
John O'Shea
Darren Fletcher
Josh King
Ryan Shawcross
Rafael & Fabio*
Danny Welbeck
Tom Cleverley
James Chester
Scott McTominay
Jimmy Garner
Anthony Elanga
Adnan Janujaz
Guiseppe Rossi
Tom Lawrence
Andreas Pereira
Jesse Lingard
Brandon Williams
*sort of...depends where your cut-off is for 'academy'.
What I find most amazing about the above list is that peak value, there's hundreds of millions of pounds worth of footballers.
However, when you consider we ended up buying back Pogba for £90m, we've probably just about made a net loss on those players. What a remarkably terrible achievement, shocking incompetence which is actually hard to comprehend.
Gerard Pique*
Dean Henderson
Marcus Rashford
Danny Drinkwater
Danny Simpson
Mason Greenwood
Michael Keane
Sam Johnstone
Johnny Evans
Wes Brown
John O'Shea
Darren Fletcher
Josh King
Ryan Shawcross
Rafael & Fabio*
Danny Welbeck
Tom Cleverley
James Chester
Scott McTominay
Jimmy Garner
Anthony Elanga
Adnan Janujaz
Guiseppe Rossi
Tom Lawrence
Andreas Pereira
Jesse Lingard
Brandon Williams
*sort of...depends where your cut-off is for 'academy'.
What I find most amazing about the above list is that peak value, there's hundreds of millions of pounds worth of footballers.
However, when you consider we ended up buying back Pogba for £90m, we've probably just about made a net loss on those players. What a remarkably terrible achievement, shocking incompetence which is actually hard to comprehend.