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Best CB pairing

MadMike

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Bailly is done i think, showed some promise but he's just not good enough and i fear now he never will be. Phil Jones hasn't been involved which means he's probably injured again or will be soon. And Rojo is Rojo nuff said.
Dunno about done like, he's 24. Most CBs peak at their late 20s. I still have some hope that he might make a decent CB one day. But I agree with you in that he's running out of time convincing that he's Man Utd quality and is worth persevering with. He's entering his 3rd year at the club now and he's still showing fundamental flaws to his game that prevent him from nailing a spot.

He's rash with his challenges, he gets drawn out of position a lot, he hacks and ninja kicks at the ball and botches his clearances (he scored an OG against Liverpool with one of these last season), he's poor in the air. That's a terrible array of flaws to still have at 24.

The fast he's quick, strong, agile and is often good in the tackle (all to his credit) does not erase these major flaws. It's speaks volumes that you simply can't rely on him to be an assured and calm presence at the back which is what you need first and foremost. It's the opposite, he creates panic. People call him mad and have a laugh, like it's a compliment. He's a fecking CB, not an MMA fighter.

I'm starting to see some positives on Lindelof at least. He's more calm both in possession and without the ball. His clearances are mostly good and he doesn't tackle unnecessarily. He's disciplined in his positioning and doesn't get drawn out everywhere. He needs to improve his alertness and tracking of runners and he needs to hit the gym and gain some strength. He's still quite rough for a 24 year old, but at least I see some good positives in him. Might be worth pairing with Smalling for a while and see how it goes.
 

stevoc

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Dunno about done like, he's 24. Most CBs peak at their late 20s. I still have some hope that he might make a decent CB one day. But I agree with you in that he's running out of time convincing that he's Man Utd quality and is worth persevering with. He's entering his 3rd year at the club now and he's still showing fundamental flaws to his game that prevent him from nailing a spot.

He's rash with his challenges, he gets drawn out of position a lot, he hacks and ninja kicks at the ball and botches his clearances (he scored an OG against Liverpool with one of these last season), he's poor in the air. That's a terrible array of flaws to still have at 24.

The fast he's quick, strong, agile and is often good in the tackle (all to his credit) does not erase these major flaws. It's speaks volumes that you simply can't rely on him to be an assured and calm presence at the back which is what you need first and foremost. It's the opposite, he creates panic. People call him mad and have a laugh, like it's a compliment. He's a fecking CB, not an MMA fighter.

I'm starting to see some positives on Lindelof at least. He's more calm both in possession and without the ball. His clearances are mostly good and he doesn't tackle unnecessarily. He's disciplined in his positioning and doesn't get drawn out everywhere. He needs to improve his alertness and tracking of runners and he needs to hit the gym and gain some strength. But I see some positives at least in him. Might be worth pairing with Smalling for a while and see how it goes.
By done i mean he'll never be a top CB in my opinion, in his first season i thought i seen enough to hope he could develop into a world class defender. But last year changed my mind big time, i would agree with pretty much everything in your assessment of him there. I also think he could be decent one day if he calms the feck down, but sadly that's all he'll ever be.
 

MadMike

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Yeah mate keep peddling that crap about Smalling being injury prone 147 appearances in the last 3 seasons. Try sticking with facts!
This myth that Smalling is injury prone, when will it end? He gets bundled in with Jones for no other reason than they've been here the longest and often get mentioned in the same breath. Guilty by association. Such brainless stance from so many posters.
 

MadMike

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By done i mean he'll never be a top CB in my opinion, in his first season i thought i seen enough to hope he could develop into a world class defender. But last year changed my mind big time, i would agree with pretty much everything in your assessment of him there. I also think he could be decent one day if he calms the feck down, but sadly that's all he'll ever be.
Oh yeah I fully agree and I made my peace with that as well. I mean hope he proves me wrong and everything, I'll be happier than anyone to eat my words but I just don't see it. It'd be quite a miraculous recovery for a CB that seems so rash and erratic to develop calmness and composure all out of a sudden.
 

stevoc

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Oh yeah I fully agree and I made my peace with that as well. I mean hope he proves me wrong and everything, I'll be happier than anyone to eat my words but I just don't see it. It'd be quite a miraculous recovery for a CB that seems so rash and erratic to develop calmness and composure all out of a sudden.
Maybe it's happened but i can't remember a defender that is still very rash at 24 going onto become calm and composed. Certainly not one as erratic as Bailly anyway.
 

MetoTTT

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Play on a regular basis 2 of Bailly, Smalling and Lindelof, please. Give them a run of games to improve.
 

MadDogg

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Smalling actually said last season that the CB he prefers playing with most is Lindelof. This will probably happen as Bailly has surely got to be dropped. Feels like desperate times 2 games into the season.
I never heard that, but it doesn't surprise me. Smalling's best ever form (and comfortably the best form any of our defenders have had since Rio/Vida started declining) was when he was partnered with Blind. Lindelof has many of the same strengths and weaknesses, so hopefully with a run of games we might just see the return of Mike.
 

Red_toad

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It’s time for Rojo and Jones to strike up there partnership again can’t be any worse than the 2 today
They were a very good pairing until it was found out they're both not very good in the air. We do lack a pairing of any sort, so Smalling plus another should be the way to go until that's rectified.
 

jungledrums

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I wonder how different the answer to this question would have been pre Brighton game. In my opinion it's Bailly and Smalling anyway.
 

flappyjay

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Jones is not best because Bailly and Lindelof kinda sucks together.
It is nothing new tho, the fact is we need Smalling in order to keep the defence somewhat up to standard. Don't think it matters who we pair him with. But isn't this what some of you wanted?:lol: Bailly and Lindelof pairing as some sort of ball-playing CB thing to get the attack to work properly. Now that we concede easy goals because of it, you come crawling back u cheap sack of shit (its sunny reference, not to be a dik)
Funny also because andreas still came deep to get the ball from the ball playing cb's
 

flappyjay

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This. Smalling isn't world class by any means, and he's not popular among the football hipsters. But he's the best we have defensively and by a stretch, right now i would give him a run with Lindelof to see if they can complement each other and form a decent partnership.

Bailly is done i think, showed some promise but he's just not good enough and i fear now he never will be. Phil Jones hasn't been involved which means he's probably injured again or will be soon. And Rojo is Rojo nuff said.
This. Of all our center backs Chris is the one who knows how to cover his partner's weakness hence why most of Lindelofs came with Smalling beside him. Also why Smalling worked well with Blind. Lindelof would cover Smalling's limitations on the ball.
 

flappyjay

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To be fair Jose made a blunder too. It made sense to start the season with his most reliable cb +1. Maybe lindelof because of his injury record. They might not be the best two but you can't discount the importance of having a regular cb partner. Playing together for a long time and building a partnership is important. Smalling played the most games last season but he could never say this is my cb partner because he was getting a new one every other week
 

westmeath

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Yep would go with Smalling and Lindelof. I can’t believe this is the same Lindelof who played so well at the World Cup that we saw yesterday, so clearly he can play. I just don’t understand what happens to him when he puts on a United shirt.
 

Infra-red

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Smalling plus one other (he's not very good but has the distinction of being the only CB at the club who can head the ball). The others are all much of a muchness (ie terribly average).

It's incredible that we didn't sign one in the summer. Thanks Ed.
 

settembrini

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Smalling is our best centre back by a considerable distance and he proves it every season. Him being on the bench with Lindelof and Bailly starting (especially when shielded by a young creative midfielder playing as a DM) feels almost like self-sabotage from Mourinho.
 

MadMike

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Funny also because andreas still came deep to get the ball from the ball playing cb's
That will always happen when you have 2 CBs. What are these teams that play a flat 4 at the back with a DLP and the DLP does’t come deep to pick the ball when the team is being pressed?
 

Kostov

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Smalling needs to play. I know it's tough to swallow it for some you, but he really is our most reliable CB. Than I'd play some kid from the u-13, they are probably better than the spineless gits that played yesterday.
 

flappyjay

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That will always happen when you have 2 CBs. What are these teams that play a flat 4 at the back with a DLP and the DLP does’t come deep to pick the ball when the team is being pressed?
It's based on the point that Smalling.for a long time was blamed for Matic/Pogba coming deep to get the ball. It's still happens when he isn't there.
 

MadMike

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It's based on the point that Smalling.for a long time was blamed for Matic/Pogba coming deep to get the ball. It's still happens when he isn't there.
Ah I see what you mean. That was a bollocks argument to begin with, peddled by those who must have feck all experience of watching 4-3-3 formations.

It is extremely common that the DLP will come deep, split the centre backs sending both wider and allowing the fullbacks to move into midfield. This is creating a 4-man midfield where it’s easier to pick an option, while also having 3 at the back who can shift the ball from one side of the pitch to the other to probe for an opening in midfield.

It’s basic tactics. Its effect is the team looking a bit like it’s playing a 3-4-3 when trying to bring the ball out of the back
 

Shinjch

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Never thought I would say this two years ago, but it's still probably Smalling and Jones when both are fit. They scare me the least to have there anyway
 

Red_Ramirez

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Smalling was our best centre-back last season NQAT

He deserves a starting place

Probably alongside Bailly....

The best actual pairing under Mourinho thus far was Rojo and Jones during the 2016/17 season. They had a great run together where they looked solid and complemented each other well
 

Marcky411

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We don't have a best pair of CD because of their injury prone bodies, often caused by rash challenges. Bailly and Lindelof should be paired with a more senior CB but we don't really have one as Smalling and Jones have never evolved into the CD they should've due to continually being injured thus our dilemma.
 

MadMike

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We don't have a best pair of CD because of their injury prone bodies, often caused by rash challenges. Bailly and Lindelof should be paired with a more senior CB but we don't really have one as Smalling and Jones have never evolved into the CD they should've due to continually being injured thus our dilemma.
Stop talking nonsense and back-up your opinions with facts. Smalling does not have a bad injury record. He's played 137 games in the last 3 seasons and has been available for many more when he wasn't selected. His fitness record is above average for an EPL centre back and a world away from "injury prone". People who can't distinguish between Smalling and Jones don't deserve their posts being taken seriously. Try again.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Probably Bailey and Smalling... with Jones then the back-up, and Lindelof and Rojo having a "who is less shit" fight to the death.

It's still crap though.
 

sincher

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Bailly and Smalling.

Interesting how many named Bailly and Lindelof in our best XI after the first game, and also interesting how many now won't name either.
 

Mainoldo

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Anyone that’s not playing. Like every opinion on this place. As soon as someone has a bad game the other guy on the bench becomes soo much better. Lingard will be our best option on the right now until he has a stinker and we will all want Mata back.
 

MadMike

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Anyone that’s not playing. Like every opinion on this place. As soon as someone has a bad game the other guy on the bench becomes soo much better. Lingard will be our best option on the right now until he has a stinker and we will all want Mata back.
That's not true. There's a bunch of people who have been saying for ages that Smalling is our best CB. When he's playing and when he's not. When he makes some mistakes (which he will inevitably make) and when he's not. There's a vocal minority that doesn't like him because of his passing style and they shit on him every time he plays and try to point out imperfections in his decision making when others around him can't even do basic defending. They've been dreaming up partnerships of players that will bring the best out of each other when they really don't complement each other well at all. Like Bailly and Rojo when both are rash as feck, card prone and ill disciplined positionally. Or Bailly and Lindelof after one game, when both are our least experienced CBs and mutually weak in the air. Those two are not the same group of people though.

Also when did Lingard play as RW for someone to want him there? I recall him playing LW in Mourinho's first year and then becoming a free role in a 4-2-3-1 or the second striker in a 3-5-2. He most often started with Mata or another player on the RW.
 

MUFC OK

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Bailly was shocking yesterday but has looked immense for us in the past. He's still a young player and though he is rash at times he needs this season at least. Smalling is our best CB.
 

Woziak

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Smalling is by far our best CB, when Matic returns he will solidify the defence with Smalling and one other. That one other depends on form. I never saw the love for Victor, he has an awful lot of developing still to do, he really needs to be the spare man in a back 3, otherwise on the bench!
Loses far too many individual duels and his pace is average compared to Jones, Smalling and Bailly.
 

MadMike

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Bailly was shocking yesterday but has looked immense for us in the past. He's still a young player and though he is rash at times he needs this season at least. Smalling is our best CB.
He looked immense in some games when he's played a bit higher up the pitch, being aggressive and winning the ball early with his strong tackles. His pace also allows him to chase down very well the diagonal hoofballs towards the strikers and protect the ball due to his strength. But I don't ever recall him looking immense and commanding when defending inside his box.

His aggressive tackling, ninja-kick clearances and lack of heading ability are all massive weaknesses when defending inside your own penalty area and these issues have all been there since day 1. In some games they get exposed in others not. But they've always been clearly evident, hence why some of us have not been convinced. He doesn't have the full package required for an EPL defender. His good games are always selective. In the sense that they are games when the flow of it allows his strengths to get highlighted and his weaknesses to get masked. It's not that in his good games he magically becomes dominant in the air or more selective with his tackling. People were calling him beast last week and he could have been sent off for an unnecessary two-footed challenge.
 

ZlatMan

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Smalling/Bailly or Smalling/Lindelöf. Lindelöf and Bailly can't play together as both contrast each other. Smalling has both experience and composure to complement either one of them'so skill sets.
 

Lennon7

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Smalling’s not good enough but he has to start. I’d stick with Lindelof alongside him and see how that goes - I’d say Bailly but he was so incredibly shite yesterday I’m not ready to see him play again. Jones is shite. Rojo is shite. Absolute joke we didn’t buy another CB.
 

ZAGREB RED

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I like Bailly and have often defended him at times, but the best pairing is anyone's guess. Jones and Rojo seem to be on the outs just now but picking two from five just now is almost like picking the least worst two of the five rather than the best two.
What the pairing for next Monday will be is anyone's guess. I think Smalling will possibly start and Gary Neville mentioned yesterday it might be a back three in the next game, but who knows.
 

Marcky411

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Stop talking nonsense and back-up your opinions with facts. Smalling does not have a bad injury record. He's played 137 games in the last 3 seasons and has been available for many more when he wasn't selected. His fitness record is above average for an EPL centre back and a world away from "injury prone". People who can't distinguish between Smalling and Jones don't deserve their posts being taken seriously. Try again.
I shall try again if you read my post attentively, I was referring to our CD partnership Jones and Smalling and that have not evolved the way it should've due to injury. They should be our senior players bedding in the younger ones.

Here are Smallings injury stats of the past years, won't bother with Jones, it is only the last season he hasn't picked up some injury of note.

16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days
 

villain

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I shall try again if you read my post attentively, I was referring to our CD partnership Jones and Smalling and that have not evolved the way it should've due to injury. They should be our senior players bedding in the younger ones.

Here are Smallings injury stats of the past years, won't bother with Jones, it is only the last season he hasn't picked up some injury of note.

16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days
I’m failing to see how this is a bad injury record? He’s had 2 major injuries in 8 years.