Best player ever in 4 year intervals?

[Andersonson]

I don't see it as a race-related thing.
The lack of accurate documentation regarding dates of birth is something that's apparently more common in ""3rd world countries"", including African ones. If it's not the case, and it's another construct of the white-western world that's not based on facts, that's probably the racist element of it.

But as far as I know, these incidents were documented more in Africa than in other places (look at the Wikipedia page for 'age fraud in association football'. are the writers of the page necessarily racist, or is it just something that tends to happen more in that area of the globe, where people mostly have a certain skin color?)

As an example-
if Russian athletes have to face more suspicions of doping than other athletes, because of their country's history with it,
could it be thought of as racist toward whites?

Discrimination against nationality doesnt have to be racism, but it can be. In this case it isnt, because there are several slavic who doesnt face the same as the Russians. And it isnt based on race, its nationality.
But glad we agree that the post first made here has some racist elements to it.

 

[Oranges038]

The suspicion about his age is based on what? Its certainly not based on facts

Is this racist too?

12-16 has to be Freddy Adu. What a player. Think he's still only 18.

It was a joke, get over it.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

12-16 has to be Freddy Adu. What a player. Think he's still only 18.

 

[mshnsh]

24-28 Messi is 11/12 to 15-16
24-28 Cristiano is 09/10 to 13/14

I made the mistake of thinking Messi played the majority of the time being 24 at 12/13 season. But even then, I believe their 4 years run is about equal, And Messi won 2 Ballon D'ors, As much as Cristiano.

Generally speaking, Messi probably had the strongest 4 seasons run in football history, 09/10 to 12/13, But this wasn't OP question.

Messi was easily the best player in the world in 2007 and 2008. Injuries prevented him from being recognised as such as it limited his appearances and impact for his team.

From 2008/9 to 12 he was injury free and his impact was obvious.

2012/13 and 13/14 were also injury plagued but he was now in his post peak years.

2014/15 was similar to 2008 to 2012, goat level performances.

At no point watching Cristiano did I feel I'm watching as good a footballer be it his peak years or poaching years.

 

[harms]

Didn’t see him play, so obviously can’t judge. But shouldn’t Puskas show up somewhere in the older categories?

Di Stéfano was the better one of the two when they've played together and he's one year older than Puskás. Puskás has a claim in earlier categories – he was genuinely considered to be the greatest player of all-time (at the time) by many during his actual peak. And that peak came to an abrupt end in 1956 (he was 29 at the time) with the Hungarian revolution (or, rather, the Soviet repression and the aftermath of it). He's certainly up there with the best but not quite the best as even his teammate was generally considered to be ahead of him at the time.

Guys from the bigsoccer forum have done a proper table on his stats based on Hungarian newspapers & other sources. Some of his seasons – like the one from the 1953 with 39 goals and 30 assists in 29 games were simply out of this world.

 

[HTG]

Di Stéfano was the better one of the two when they've played together and he's one year older than Puskás. Puskás has a claim in earlier categories – he was genuinely considered to be the greatest player of all-time (at the time) by many during his actual peak. And that peak came to an abrupt end in 1956 (he was 29 at the time) with the Hungarian revolution (or, rather, the Soviet repression and the aftermath of it). He's certainly up there with the best but not quite the best as even his teammate was generally considered to be ahead of him at the time.

Guys from the bigsoccer forum have done a proper table on his stats based on Hungarian newspapers & other sources. Some of his seasons – like the one from the 1953 with 39 goals and 30 assists in 29 games were simply out of this world.

Interesting read. Thanks for that.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

16-20 Rooney
20-24 Messi
24-28 Ronaldo
28-32 Ronaldo
32-36 Messi
36-40 Zlatan

 

[Revan]

16-20 Luis Ronaldo
20-36 Messi
36-40 Maldini

Counting only those I have seen playing.

 

[CrockedRain]

Messi was easily the best player in the world in 2007 and 2008. Injuries prevented him from being recognised as such as it limited his appearances and impact for his team.

From 2008/9 to 12 he was injury free and his impact was obvious.

2012/13 and 13/14 were also injury plagued but he was now in his post peak years.

2014/15 was similar to 2008 to 2012, goat level performances.

At no point watching Cristiano did I feel I'm watching as good a footballer be it his peak years or poaching years.

-I don't think Messi was playing at ATG level in 2008. I remember vividly seeing noticeable leap in performance between 08/09 season to 09/10.
-That's why i think Cristiano 2010-2014 was equal to Messi 2012-2016, As impressive collection of seasons. 15/16 Messi wasn't that great in Prime Messi standards either.
-14/15 Messi is his second best season ever (10/11 for me), I would agree he played at higher level than Cristiano ever did (Messi played as well in 11/12 but wasn't as impactful, In fact, I consider 11/12 Cristiano to be the better season)
-Well i felt like i'm watching a top 5 ATG level player, You're free to think whatever you want. To me, Cristiano during that period was outright the most dangerous and relentless individual attacking force i've ever seen, Always a danger and from every position and situation on the pitch.

 

[Superden]

more that a little amount of recency bias going on here.

 

[Gavinb33]

more that a little amount of recency bias going on here.

I only judged it on players I've seen

 

[mshnsh]

-I don't think Messi was playing at ATG level in 2008. I remember vividly seeing noticeable leap in performance between 08/09 season to 09/10.
-That's why i think Cristiano 2010-2014 was equal to Messi 2012-2016, As impressive collection of seasons. 15/16 Messi wasn't that great in Prime Messi standards either.
-14/15 Messi is his second best season ever (10/11 for me), I would agree he played at higher level than Cristiano ever did (Messi played as well in 11/12 but wasn't as impactful, In fact, I consider 11/12 Cristiano to be the better season)
-Well i felt like i'm watching a top 5 ATG level player, You're free to think whatever you want. To me, Cristiano during that period was outright the most dangerous and relentless individual attacking force i've ever seen, Always a danger and from every position and situation on the pitch.

We played against Messi in 2008, back from a long injury and he was by far the best player on the pitch. Ronaldo wasn't a patch on him. If you showed the 2 matches to anyone, they'd think it was Messi who won the ballon d'or, not Ronaldo. This was just a glimpse of what a fully fit Messi was doing all season long. When he was fit in the first half of 2007/8 and the second half of 06/07, he was scoring at an excellent rate (a goal a game) despite hugging the line as a winger. And at the time, he was being hyped as the bpitw, lack of trophies hurt his chances of official recognition but he still managed podium finishes in the ballon d'or in both the years.

From 08 to 12, Messi was far far superior to Ronaldo in every aspect of the game. Honestly, the comparisons were driven by goal stats than anything else. Only a biased eye would think they were equal.

12/13 and 13/14, Messi had injuries at crucial time. But even in 13/14, a year when Ronaldo won the ballon d'or (due to the ucl win for Real) Messi was the better footballer even if he wasn't at his absolute best. If you watched the classico at the Bernebau, the gulf in quality of the 2 players was obvious. Messi was by far the best footballer on the pitch.

There is no way the 2 players have ever been equal. Not in their early years, not in their prime nor in their 30s. Ronaldo may have matched Messi's goals in many seasons and was more clutch in his poaching years, but at everything else, Messi has always been far superior. Only the biased fans or those who did not watch Messi play claim otherwise.

Before you accuse me of hating on him, I've always accepted Cristiano to be one of the greatest but never as good as Messi.

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

From my own eyes

16-20 Rooney
20-32 Messi
32-36 Modric
36-40 Zlatan/VdS

Not sure I see Modric as better than Messi at 32 to 36. Messis last 2 Barca seasons were individually v good. In the same period he's added one of the greatest Copa and World Cup performances of all time, plus 2 potentially 3 Balon Dors. Modric on an individual level doesn't come close.

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

24-28 Messi is 11/12 to 15-16
24-28 Cristiano is 09/10 to 13/14

I made the mistake of thinking Messi played the majority of the time being 24 at 12/13 season. But even then, I believe their 4 years run is about equal, And Messi won 2 Ballon D'ors, As much as Cristiano.

Generally speaking, Messi probably had the strongest 4 seasons run in football history, 09/10 to 12/13, But this wasn't OP question.

That's 5 seasons each not 4. Leo won 3 Balon Dors to Ronaldos 2, 2011, 2012 and 2015. Messis 2 standout seasons in this stretch, 2011/12 (73 goals, most devastating goalscoring season in history) and 2014/15 (goalscoring playmaker extraordinaire) are levels above what Cristianos ever produced.
Let's also not forget Messis taking Argentina to the WC final (and best player) in 2014, and same at the Copa in 2015. Ronaldo for Portugal was nowhere to be seen.
In addition to providing many more assists, Messi outscored Cristiano 273 to 252 club goals (even outscored him internationally)
Leo is clear in this 5 season stretch.

 

[General_Elegancia]

16-20: Pele
20-24: Pele/Ronaldo R9
24-28: Maradona/Messi
28-32: Messi/Cristiano
32-36: Di Stefano/Messi/Modric
36-40: Matthews/ Friedenreich/Zanetti/Maldini/Lieholm
40+: Matthews

 

[paulscholes18]

16-20 Ronaldo
20-24 Eusebio
24-28 C. Ronaldo
28-32 Messi
32-36 Puskas
36+ Van der Sar

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

28-32 has to be Ronaldo.

3 CLs, 1 Euro, 4 ballon d'ors.

 

[RedRonaldo]

16-20: Pele (192 goals in 157 games, won WC)
20-24: Messi (3 Ballon D’ors out of 5)
24-28: Maradona (single-handedly won WC)
28-32: Ronaldo (4 Ballon D’ors out of 5, 3CL+Euro)
32-36: Messi (likely 3 Ballon D’ors, WC+Copa)
36+: Puskas (LL, CL top scorer at age 36-37)

 

[antk]

I don't see it as a race-related thing.
The lack of accurate documentation regarding dates of birth is something that's apparently more common in ""3rd world countries"", including African ones. If it's not the case, and it's another construct of the white-western world that's not based on facts, that's probably the racist element of it.

But as far as I know, these incidents were documented more in Africa than in other places (look at the Wikipedia page for 'age fraud in association football'. are the writers of the page necessarily racist, or is it just something that tends to happen more in that area of the globe, where people mostly have a certain skin color?)

As an example-
if Russian athletes have to face more suspicions of doping than other athletes, because of their country's history with it,
could it be thought of as racist toward whites?

Russian people are typically less subjected to racism and xenophobia in all parts of life (even if they're having a tough time for obvious reasons right now). White people also tend to be recognized as different groups depending on their actual ethnicity and countries of origin, while you are literally talking about "Africans" right now as if the continent wasn't thrice the size of Europe.

There hasn't ever been a french or british white athlete suspected of doping (or having jokes made around the possibility of them doping) just because there were white russian athletes caught doing so.

 

[led_scholes]

16-20 Pele
20-24 Messi
24-28 Maradonna
28-32 Messi
32-36 Zidane
36-40 Dino Zoff
40+ Stanley Matthews

Zidane had retired by 34 I think.