Big Sam: Recruitment Is Key

Inigo Montoya

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Listening to him on Talksport this morning and say what you like about his style, demeanour etc, the guy has a shed load of experience and has had a few highs to go with some lows.

Said that you can have the best coaches, medical,physios, dieticians,sports psychs, facilities in the world but if the recruitment(players) is wrong, it’s going to be disastrous. Wasn’t referring to Utd as it happens, Spurs was the talking point and he also cited Arsenal under Wenger who he said had revolutionised the PL when he first started but got the recruitment wrong.

There are obvious parallels with Utd. Fact, lack of player quality is harder to fix than anything else. We just don’t scare anyone
 

Needham

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Had a few irons in the fire when it came to recruitment did Big Sam.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Listening to him on Talksport this morning and say what you like about his style, demeanour etc, the guy has a shed load of experience and has had a few highs to go with some lows.

Said that you can have the best coaches, medical,physios, dieticians,sports psychs, facilities in the world but if the recruitment(players) is wrong, it’s going to be disastrous. Wasn’t referring to Utd as it happens, Spurs was the talking point and he also cited Arsenal under Wenger who he said had revolutionised the PL when he first started but got the recruitment wrong.

There are obvious parallels with Utd. Fact, lack of player quality is harder to fix than anything else. We just don’t scare anyone
We don't scare anyone at the moment. The quandary we are in is convincing the quality players we need to come here. We might not, might is probably being optimistic, have CL, hell we might not have EL. If it is still Ole, that could be a problem. The club is run by idiots in the footballing sense. If you want lots of endorsements etc this might be the club for you. If you actually enjoy playing football, have ambition and want to win trophies, it might not be.
 

Aouer-United

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I believe poor recruitment contributed the most to our downfall. If LVG or Jose spend more than 300m each on the right player so they wouldn't be in mess in the first place.
 

izec

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Recruitment is one side, but you still have to build a proper team and rely on making the most of your existing players. Big Sam has experience mostly in mid and lower table teams, but concerning the challenge for trophies, he has no clue. Guys like him mostly improve sides by transfers, barely by style of play or making current players better in different (technical) facets of the game. His style is relatively simple and his job relied on saving clubs from relegation. As soon as the clubs demanded more, he couldnt sustain his shitty style long term and challenge for anything of note.
 

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He's not wrong, but recruitment is ultimately just one part of the puzzle.

Hopefully this isn't a case of Large Samuel trying to position himself as Ole's successor.
 

el3mel

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The guy for sure has a long history and big experience with teams fighting relegation so it's easy for him to analyze our current problem.
 

fergiesarmy1

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The guy for sure has a long history and big experience with teams fighting relegation so it's easy for him to analyze our current problem.
Not sure it’s time to call it a relegation battle yet early October and 8 games gone.
 

pcaming

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I mean we've been crying out for 2 quality wingers for years, and yet all these million-dollar coaches could not solve that problem.
 

Fussball13251

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sounds like he wants a shout in to be manager. he probably would do better though
 

DRM

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Its simple, we have more than our fair share of average players. That, combined with our average manager and its no wonder we find ourselves in the predicament we are.

We need quality players. simples. Why can't a club of our size and resources find talented youngsters from around the globe?
 

Theonas

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Recruitment is one side, but you still have to build a proper team and rely on making the most of your existing players. Big Sam has experience mostly in mid and lower table teams, but concerning the challenge for trophies, he has no clue. Guys like him mostly improve sides by transfers, barely by style of play or making current players better in different (technical) facets of the game. His style is relatively simple and his job relied on saving clubs from relegation. As soon as the clubs demanded more, he couldnt sustain his shitty style long term and challenge for anything of note.
Exactly! You hear this stuff all the time from the pundits who usually were managers before as it helps shift the blame from their coaching ability. Of course recruitment is essential just like any business but some people like Big Sam, Roy Keane or Souness act as though there is nothing to a coach's job other than buying players and motivating them.
 

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Of course it is.

The Footballer Manager and FIFA brigade are obsessed with tactics, systems, style etc....in reality 80% of a football team is made up of the quality and mentality of its players

Do you think Pep or Klopp could have this mob playing like City or Liverpool? If you do, I’d just delete your account and start watching another sport
 

Inigo Montoya

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:lol: Exactly my reaction when I read it. Who'd have thought that having good football players was of paramount importance to being a successful football team?
If you’d heard it then you’d understand that it’s not about ‘good’ players but about the ‘right’ players.
We bought Fred who was coveted by a good few clubs. He gets a lot of stick on here. Is he a bad player? No. But he’s not the right player for Utd.
We bought Kleberson, never fitted in here. But seen as one of Brazil’s best players at the time.
 

CassiusClaymore

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If you’d heard it then you’d understand that it’s not about ‘good’ players but about the ‘right’ players.
We bought Fred who was coveted by a good few clubs. He gets a lot of stick on here. Is he a bad player? No. But he’s not the right player for Utd.
We bought Kleberson, never fitted in here. But seen as one of Brazil’s best players at the time.
Sure thing.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Of course it is.

The Footballer Manager and FIFA brigade are obsessed with tactics, systems, style etc....in reality 80% of a football team is made up of the quality and mentality of its players

Do you think Pep or Klopp could have this mob playing like City or Liverpool? If you do, I’d just delete your account and start watching another sport
If you think Ole could ever get Liverpool or City playing like they do, you should too do as you suggest.

You would think a United supporter out of all people could appreciate a top manager’s work when he sees it.
The manager is the most important person at any club bar Barcelona and currently Juventus.
 

Leftback99

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If you think Ole could ever get Liverpool or City playing like they do, you should too do as you suggest.

You would think a United supporter out of all people could appreciate a top manager’s work when he sees it.
The manager is the most important person at any club bar Barcelona and currently Juventus.
Whether he'd have us playing like City or Liverpool isn't the point. No other managers in the world have got their teams playing like City or Liverpool either.

An average manager wouldn't finish below the top 2 with City or Liverpool's squad.

It's just obvious that this squad is no where near good enough for what people expect. Why do people want to argue against an actual experienced manager? And he's not the first to say it recently.
 

Lentwood

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If you think Ole could ever get Liverpool or City playing like they do, you should too do as you suggest.

You would think a United supporter out of all people could appreciate a top manager’s work when he sees it.
The manager is the most important person at any club bar Barcelona and currently Juventus.
Why just Ole? LvG and Jose are two of the best coaches to have graced the modern game and they struggled to get this bunch to string two passes together - in fact a better bunch than the players Ole has to work with

Also, I have to fundamentally disagree with your point. The manager is definitely NOT (or should not) be the most important person at any modern football club. Liverpool and City were only in a position to appoint Klopp and Pep and give them the players they needed to build brilliant sides because of the work of people like Tkiki Bergiristain and Michael Edwards

I’d go further and say it’s this dangerous “cult of the manager” that’s leading us down blind alley after blind alley.

Recruitment is dire. Strategy is non-existent. Outrageous contracts are handed out like lollipops. “Star” players are pandered to. More effort is spent on securing sponsorships than footballers. All of these problems are top-down problems that the poor sap who sits in the dugout week to week can do nothing about
 

Mark Pawelek

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Why do people want to argue against an actual experienced manager? And he's not the first to say it recently.
Because of who these actual experienced managers are and the style of play they favour, and who they recruited. They told us a PL title was guaranteed with Mourinho.
 
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Alabaster Codify7

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I don't care what anyone says, Sam Allardyce would not be doing as badly as Ole is right now, or has been for a few months.

The football would be horrific and dated but we'd be beating teams like Rochdale, Newcastle and even Southampton.

What would you rather, shit football and losing or shit football and winning?

Ole isn't ticking a single box nowadays. Allardyce is a better manager than Ole, it's not even in doubt.
 

Globule

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What has he said that's controversial. Recruitment is obviously key.

What makes me laugh is Gary Neville was saying the same thing on Sunday, but was using his argument as a case for sticking with Ole ("You can't keep replacing managers. the players are not good enough and we need to give Ole backing in the market"). I agree we need better players, but why does he think recruitment to improve what we already have begins and ends with the players. We need to recruit a better manager just as much as any player. Why does his argument of sticking with the status quo and giving time to get things right not apply to players as well as the manager?
 

Leftback99

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What has he said that's controversial. Recruitment is obviously key.

What makes me laugh is Gary Neville was saying the same thing on Sunday, but was using his argument as a case for sticking with Ole ("You can't keep replacing managers. the players are not good enough and we need to give Ole backing in the market"). I agree we need better players, but why does he think recruitment to improve what we already have begins and ends with the players. We need to recruit a better manager just as much as any player. Why does his argument of sticking with the status quo and giving time to get things right not apply to players as well as the manager?
In the absence of a good structure, top director of football/sporting director etc you could argue that having a manager that at least gets the recruitment right is vital to our longer term goals.

A new manager might get better out of these players in the short term (also might not) but we simply can't afford to get more recruitment wrong under the next manager, spending on fortune on his own targets (or worse Woodward's ideas) only to be seen as deadwood further down the line he's inevitably sacked.
 

Adam-Utd

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What has he said that's controversial. Recruitment is obviously key.

What makes me laugh is Gary Neville was saying the same thing on Sunday, but was using his argument as a case for sticking with Ole ("You can't keep replacing managers. the players are not good enough and we need to give Ole backing in the market"). I agree we need better players, but why does he think recruitment to improve what we already have begins and ends with the players. We need to recruit a better manager just as much as any player. Why does his argument of sticking with the status quo and giving time to get things right not apply to players as well as the manager?
He’s a bit too old school is Gary.

he’s brought up with only 1 manager all his life, he’s been scarred by his own experiences of being sacked and feels sorry for managers.

nobody ever said it would be easy and I’m sure ole knew this. His results speak for themselves and he isn’t getting the job done. A 20% win is nowhere near good enough.

can he turn it around? Possibly. confidence right now though is at a major low and without his first 11 he’s screwed. He desperately needs a fit team after the INT break.
 

Ole90+3

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Why just Ole? LvG and Jose are two of the best coaches to have graced the modern game and they struggled to get this bunch to string two passes together - in fact a better bunch than the players Ole has to work with

Also, I have to fundamentally disagree with your point. The manager is definitely NOT (or should not) be the most important person at any modern football club. Liverpool and City were only in a position to appoint Klopp and Pep and give them the players they needed to build brilliant sides because of the work of people like Tkiki Bergiristain and Michael Edwards

I’d go further and say it’s this dangerous “cult of the manager” that’s leading us down blind alley after blind alley.

Recruitment is dire. Strategy is non-existent. Outrageous contracts are handed out like lollipops. “Star” players are pandered to. More effort is spent on securing sponsorships than footballers. All of these problems are top-down problems that the poor sap who sits in the dugout week to week can do nothing about
Interesting that you mention Pep and Klopp. The latter has categorically been the most important of Liverpool's appointments for the past 3 decades
 

Lentwood

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Interesting that you mention Pep and Klopp. The latter has categorically been the most important of Liverpool's appointments for the past 3 decades
Did you not read any of my post? How do you think Klopp ended up at the club? Who do you think oversees the teams of Scouts and analysts who recruit players? Who do you think oversees the wage structure and deals with agents and transfer negotiations?

Clue: It’s not Klopp

Summary - I believe your missing the point I was making. A good manager without a good structure can’t achieve great things. They are but one (fairly important) part of the puzzle
 

Buster15

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Why just Ole? LvG and Jose are two of the best coaches to have graced the modern game and they struggled to get this bunch to string two passes together - in fact a better bunch than the players Ole has to work with

Also, I have to fundamentally disagree with your point. The manager is definitely NOT (or should not) be the most important person at any modern football club. Liverpool and City were only in a position to appoint Klopp and Pep and give them the players they needed to build brilliant sides because of the work of people like Tkiki Bergiristain and Michael Edwards

I’d go further and say it’s this dangerous “cult of the manager” that’s leading us down blind alley after blind alley.

Recruitment is dire. Strategy is non-existent. Outrageous contracts are handed out like lollipops. “Star” players are pandered to. More effort is spent on securing sponsorships than footballers. All of these problems are top-down problems that the poor sap who sits in the dugout week to week can do nothing about
Bingo. Spot on.
 

Jezpeza

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I don't care what anyone says, Sam Allardyce would not be doing as badly as Ole is right now, or has been for a few months.

The football would be horrific and dated but we'd be beating teams like Rochdale, Newcastle and even Southampton.

What would you rather, shit football and losing or shit football and winning?

Ole isn't ticking a single box nowadays. Allardyce is a better manager than Ole, it's not even in doubt.
harsh words. However, our goals per game is lower under Ole than Moyes, LVG or Jose. I remember the comments about their shit defensive football and us not scoring enough or attacking. What does that stat say?
 

Jezpeza

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He’s a bit too old school is Gary.

he’s brought up with only 1 manager all his life, he’s been scarred by his own experiences of being sacked and feels sorry for managers.

nobody ever said it would be easy and I’m sure ole knew this. His results speak for themselves and he isn’t getting the job done. A 20% win is nowhere near good enough.

can he turn it around? Possibly. confidence right now though is at a major low and without his first 11 he’s screwed. He desperately needs a fit team after the INT break.
i dont remember a manager recovering a downward spiral this bad in modern football history. Hope he can but very very unlikely i feel
 

Revaulx

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Why just Ole? LvG and Jose are two of the best coaches to have graced the modern game and they struggled to get this bunch to string two passes together - in fact a better bunch than the players Ole has to work with

Also, I have to fundamentally disagree with your point. The manager is definitely NOT (or should not) be the most important person at any modern football club. Liverpool and City were only in a position to appoint Klopp and Pep and give them the players they needed to build brilliant sides because of the work of people like Tkiki Bergiristain and Michael Edwards

I’d go further and say it’s this dangerous “cult of the manager” that’s leading us down blind alley after blind alley.

Recruitment is dire. Strategy is non-existent. Outrageous contracts are handed out like lollipops. “Star” players are pandered to. More effort is spent on securing sponsorships than footballers. All of these problems are top-down problems that the poor sap who sits in the dugout week to week can do nothing about
Well when the poor sap was Sir Alex Ferguson none of this was a problem :D

Expecting the current or next manager to be able to replicate the way he operated just isn’t going to work, is it? He was a master delegator for a start.

Recruitment is only part of it. If I were manager I’d be wondering why our players seem to take longer to recover from seemingly minor injuries than our rivals’. I’d also want to think about why no other club has so many players with weight issues.