Billy No Mates Draft: R1 - diarm vs Invictus/Theon

What will the result be?


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Physiocrat

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Team diarm

Tactics


Team Diarm has been set up to best unleash the power of our front 3 along with the immense creative qualities of Koeman, Ocwirk and Zidane in launching attacks.

I recognise that although I have superb midfielders in Ocwirk, Valery Voronin and Zidane, two of them are not the most recognisable names and there is no point in me arguing that we will out-midfield our opponents superb trio. So I won't.

They will have plenty of the ball, there's no doubt about that. We will encourage them to do so, and by defending with a deep line, look to invite them onto us deep into our half.

I am confident in the strength of our defensive line to give just as good as it gets, even against such inevitably excellent attacks as this draft has thrown up. In Bergomi and Santamaria, we have two of the finest centre backs of all time. Both hard as nails, uncompromising and intelligent defenders. On either side we have quick and talented wing backs, both exceptional defenders first and foremost but both well capable of adding to our attack when appropriate.

And in the middle we have Koeman, an asset to the defence but free also in this role to provide the creative spark from deep. Koeman will have license to harry in a defensive midfield role as well as drop deeper, backing up the defensive line when necessary.

In front of this we have Ernst Ocwirk (or "Clockwork" as he was dubbed by the British media for his consistency), one of the very first holding midfielders or the very last of the great attacking centre halves. A man who excelled defensively but was best known for his ability to launch attacks from deep with superb long range passing and excellent decision making.

With all the attacking talent on display, it is the roles of these two men - Koeman and Ocwirk, which best illustrate how Team Diarm will play. Against such a fantastic midfield, we will look to bypass it completely by luring our opponent deep into our half and then using the vision and long range technical ability of these playmakers to punish them on the counter attack.

This strategy relies on being able to find Zidane, Ronaldinho, Cristiano and Batigol quickly and in space. For that I can hardly think of two better players to rely on. They will find them. And once those four have ball in space on the counter, we will score goals.

I'm not going to make up stories or invent criticisms for my opponents. It's a fine team and they will cause us problems everywere. They'll probably score. I just think we'll score more.



SUB and CHANGE of formation at 2042:

OK so my daring ploy isn't going down too well it seems. As I mentioned earlier, I battled between two line ups and decided on this one largely because it is easier to tweak to a more conventional formation in match, and with the particular attributes of Voronin I can do so while still employing Koeman as a playmaker.

Valery Voronin comes in as a world class destroying defensive midfielder. He will add energy, power and tenacity to my midfield and importantly, was a very capable central defender in his own right. This ability will also him to step back and provide cover for Koeman as the dutchman carries the ball out of defence and looks to launch attacks from deep.

Bergomi moves out to the right as a limited fullback, strengthening our defence out wide while De Vecchi will be employed slightly more conservatively on the left, although he will still have occasional opportunities to push forward with and use his ability and speed with the ball at his feet.

Voronin's presence will allow Ocwirk greater licence to push forward and link with Zidane in building attacks, although he will still provide a valuable defensive presence - particularly from set pieces where his famed aerial ability (along with that of Bergomi and Ronaldo) will be important.

Finally, the beauty of having two wide attackers who could play on either flank allows me to circumvent the impossible and magnificent Ronaldo-defying talents of Ashley Cole. While I do prefer Ronaldinho on the left, he often did a fine job from the right hand side and will do well in this slightly more tucked in role, providing a very different and less direct challenge for Cole to deal with. Any downsides to switching him are relieved by Ronaldo, who I always preferred when employed on the left - particularly here with the mouthwatering prospect of him combinging with the speedy De Vecchi on the overlap against a fullback who, while capable as a right back, was predominantly known for his performances on the left.




Invictus/Theon sub: Jorginho.[/SPOILER]
 
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Physiocrat

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Team Invictus/ Theon


We will don the Azzurri kit - to honor a duo of Italy's World Cup heroes in our team that paved the way for 3 Jules Rimet trophies combined, 1 World Cup Golden Ball, and 1 World Cup Silver Ball.



Gameplan

The team will play with a medium to high defensive line because our back 4 of Cole-Cannavro-Stam-Briegel is incredibly athletic with great pace; and Neuer can rush out to expand this particular area of the pitch with his command over the general penalty area on top of his feline shot stopping skills. Cole is tasked with controlling Ronaldo, and he has the record to prove that's he's more than suited to the job. He will play a balanced game - joining Gento when he needs to, but never letting his eyes off Ronaldo. On the other side, Briegel has the athleticism to try and contain Ronaldinho, though maybe not stop him 100%. But still, he's 'The Steamroller' and better suited than most to keep up with Ronaldinho's dynamism. In the center, Cannavaro and Stam complement each other beautifully. Stam the physically violent bully, and Cannavaro the imperious presence who will stifle whatever's left once Stam is done with his man.

We will look to dominate possession in midfield and create chances for a devastating attack built around Van Basten and Michel Platini; and control the flow of the game through the Platini-Redondo-Sammer axis in the middle of the pitch - all fantastic passers and capable of dictating the game against any midfield. The most important role on the pitch is given to Matthias Sammer, the heartbeat of our XI, whilst Redondo offers control to the game and instigates attacks from deep.

Roaming throughout the midfield is Michel Platini, three time Ballon d'Or winner, and the greatest offensive midfielder that Europe has ever produced. Technically flawless and amongst the best passers in the history of the game, Platini was also a consistent goal threat - On 10 occasions he scored 25 goals, or more in a season, at his peak scoring 82 goals in 139 games in 80s Serie A, as well as a record 9 goals in 5 games for France at Euro 1984.

In attack, the unrivaled Van Basten will stretch the field vertically, whilst Gento and Meazza stretch the field horizontally - creating room for Platini in the middle and stretching diarms' back line. On the left, the record six time European Cup winner Francisco Gento offers exceptional pace to open up the channels, attack the byline and hit crosses over to Van Basten. On the right, the greatest Italian attacker of all-time Giuseppe Meazza takes up his classic inside-right role - drifting across the front line and driving at the defense with his mesmerizing skills, hitting 235 goals in 322 games at Internazionale.

Three time Ballon d'Or winner Marco Van Basten leads the line - his unique blend of skill, physicality and ruthless finishing is almost impossible to defend against. Completely rounded, two footed and capable of scoring all type of goals - a particular threat in this game is Van Basten's supreme ability in the air. Standing almost 6 ft 3 and regarded as one of the best headers of all time, Van Basten is well placed to attack the crosses from Gento ahead of the much smaller Santamaria (5 ft 10) and Koeman (5 ft 11), who additionally - didn't quite possess the feline leap that Van Basten did.


Why we should win

* Our team is filled to the brim with exceptional title winning form, and leadership ability from back to front - boasting 5 World Cup titles, 4 European Championship titles, 15 European Cup titles, an incredible 44 League titles, and 8 Ballon D'Or titles - spread across all units - defense, midfield, and attack. Additionally, we have a redonkulous spine - the best target striker of all time in Marco Van Basten - the greatest offensive midfielder Europe has ever produced in Michel Platini - the best and last great Volante since Falcão in Fernando Redondo - the magnificent Matthias Sammer - inspirational World Cup winning captain Fabio Cannavaro - the monstrous Jaap Stam - and the prototypical sweeper keeper in Manuel Neuer. 4 Ballon D'Or winners, and a Ballon D'Or top 3 finisher right through the gut of the first XI selection. This should hold us in good stead.

* Linear thought dictates that the interesting dual between Gento and Bergomi might be a stalemate based on their historical stature, but we'd like to differ. Part of creating mismatches isn't just about putting your players in a position to succeed based on their general profile, but seeking out physical mismatches. Like Torres vs Vidić to cite one example - the latter was a great defender who thwarted some of the finest attackers of his era - some who were much better than Torres in terms of overall profile; but he was vulnerable when facing Torres' explosiveness. Bergomi was a tough defender, but one of his few flaws was lack of pace to keep up with an all-time speed merchant like Gento (ran 100m in 11 sec) on the flank. It's all about relatives, and in relative terms - there's a massive mismatch here in terms of speed and turn of direction, plus Bergomi isn't an actual fullback who can cover Gento on the outside channels - where Gento often ran riot peppering balls from all sort of depths and angles. Fully expect Gento to lose his marker over and over again, and exploit this chink in the opposition's defense. Just one sample of his relentless quickness when running behind defenders, or taking them head on:


* Highly athletic, stable, compact and complementary defense - the athleticism bit is particularly pertinent here because there's a clear contrast between the makeup of the two defenses in relative terms, and in terms of the opponent they'll face for most of the match. Overall, the opponent's back 4 lacks height, physicality and pace in some rather peculiar positions, and that is vulnerable to being exploited - the point about Gento has been highlighted before, and the 6 ft 3 Van Basten vs the rather short (for central defenders) duo of Santamaria and Koeman.

* Balanced and technically superb midfield with complementary features - Redondo is a marvelous addition to a GOAT level offensive midfielder and passer in Platini because he provides a secondary playmaking threat from central areas and opens up further creative opportunities. And Sammer will be his usual dynamic self - affecting multiple phases of the game from his free role position - while providing calculated thrusts in attack from time to time to keep the opposition midfield honest.

* The ability to engage all 5 channels in attack. The Gento/ Cole duo can operate in both the outside left, and inside left channels given the complete nature of both players out wide. The Meazza/ Briegel duo can operate in both the outside right and inside right channels given the ability of the former to play as an inside forward and the latter to play as a hybrid wingback. And the middle portion of the pitch is both dynamic and superb in both phases of the game. In comparison with that, Bergomi can't quite provide the attacking impetus to free up both channels for the opposition because he was mostly a deep cover defender, and neither than De Vechi - which can not only isolate the wide attackers, but make the overall attack predictable (especially when they don't pose much vertical threat), and predictability is something that must be avoided - ideally you'd like to pose a considerable threat from a variety of routes and configurations.




Articles & Profiles

 
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Physiocrat

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@Rado_N

Please can you put a poll with the following options on?

diarm wins by 1 goal
diarm wins by 2 goals
diarm wins by 3 goals
Invictus/Theon wins by 1 goal
Invictus/Theon wins by 2 goals
Invictus/Theon wins by 3 goals
 

Invictus

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Couple quotes/ snippets


Manuel Neuer
Blind people will have decided who wins the award if Neuer doesn't win the Ballon d'Or this year. Why should Neuer not win it? Neuer is a superb player. He is the most perfect goalkeeper in the world. He is great with crosses, always alert rushing off his line and has great reflexes as well. He can do anything. There is nothing for which I could criticise him. - Sepp Maier
Fabio Cannavaro
If Rio Ferdinand is worth £120,000 a week, Cannavaro is worth a hundred million a day. - Eamon Dunphy.
Jaap Stam
Without Jaap Stam, Sir Alex would still be Alex. - Mike Ingham
Once Jaap’s pace took him into the channel ahead of an attacking player they had no chance. He was so strong it was a mismatch. He would not be beaten. - Ryan Giggs
Ashley Cole
He is a defender who simply loves to attack. Defends, because he has to defend and because it is part of his job. Everybody loves to play with [him] because as soon as you won the ball back, he was up there to attack. - Arsène Wenger
The game that earned Cole the moniker as the world's best. Cristiano Ronaldo, then of Manchester United, was the poster boy of the host nation and in sensational form heading into the crunch quarter-final. Cole was superb, keeping Ronaldo in his pocket for much of the game. He also scored his penalty in the shootout, and though England lost, Cole was rightly named in the Euro 2004 team of the tournament.
The Cole vs Cristiano head-to-head resurfaced two years later in Germany. The Arsenal man proved his performance in Portugal was not a one-off, again keeping the flying winger in check. That he, and England, had to do it for more than an hour with 10-men after Wayne Rooney's stupid sending off made it all the more impressive.
Cristiano Ronaldo on his toughest opponent
'Ashley Cole. He's a very tough, tenacious football player. And others don't miss an opportunity.
Matthias Sammer
We came to see the tactics of a great Italian side but only saw what we had known in advance: that Matthias Sammer is a fantastic player. - Sir Alex Ferguson after the 1997 Champions League final vs Juventus in Munich.
Fernando Redondo
Sir Alex Ferguson said after the game - What does this player have in his boots? A magnet? Always with a desire play football, Redondo patrolled in front of the back four, forever available to receive the ball, he could create space for himself and others with his almost psychic reading of the game and his majestic technique. Fabio Capello once said he was 'a tactically perfect player.'
Michel Platini
When I was a kid and played with my friends, I always chose to be Platini. I let my friends share the names of my other idols between themselves. - Zinedine Zidane, his opponent in this match.
Francisco Gento
And there was Gento playing alongside and Di Stefano just timed his passes perfectly for him. Gento ran so fast you couldn't get him offside. And I was just sitting there, watching, thinking it was the best thing I had ever seen. - Sir Bobby Charlton.
Giuseppe Meazza
I also saw Pelé playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, at the Atena, I witnessed him doing something astonishing: he stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on scoring a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter. - Luigi Veronelli.
Marco Van Basten
It is between Romário and Van Basten. - Diego Maradona, on who was the best player he ever saw.
Injuries cut him down when he was in the best form of his career, spearheading Fabio Capello’s new and rejuvenated Milan side. Yet by then, Marco had already done enough to perhaps be regarded as the greatest number nine there’s ever been. People always talk about his strike against the Soviet Union in the 1988 European Championship Final, and yes, it was a great goal, but Marco scored even better goals, for both Ajax and AC Milan. - Ronald Koeman, his opponent in this match.
He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists. - Marcel Desailly
Oh yes. Right foot. Left foot. Heading, so strong, fast. He could score, he could pass the ball. He was the best. The way he played was timeless. He had to quit when he was 28. Surgery. Stupid surgery to the ankle. It was such a pity. - Paolo Maldini, when asked about the best player he played with or against
 

harms

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What's with diarm's midfield :annoyed:
Why even bother to pick Voronin if you're going to start with midfield duo of Ocwirk and Zidane :lol:
 

Gio

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Two strong if imperfect teams. I think both midfields are a little bit off with Sammer/Koeman both wearing two hats and probably not quite fully convincing at either of them. I generally prefer both of them coming onto the game rather than facing their own goal. Quite like the concept of Koeman in front of the centre-halves though and he has the range and vision to dictate the match from there. But that does make him responsible for matching Platini's runs which is a concern for Diarm. To be honest I'd rather see Voronin on the park (if there's anything Diarm's attack needs it is some grizzle and graft in midfield), jettison Janes (sorry but he's not going to win a lot of votes if some of the earlier matches are anything to go by), move Koeman back (it's one CF after all for two CBs and he can still make the play) and move Bergomi right (makes sense to have a defender first and foremost behind Cristiano).
 

harms

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Two strong if imperfect teams. I think both midfields are a little bit off with Sammer/Koeman both wearing two hats and probably not quite fully convincing at either of them. I generally prefer both of them coming onto the game rather than facing their own goal. Quite like the concept of Koeman in front of the centre-halves though and he has the range and vision to dictate the match from there. But that does make him responsible for matching Platini's runs which is a concern for Diarm. To be honest I'd rather see Voronin on the park (if there's anything Diarm's attack needs it is some grizzle and graft in midfield), jettison Janes (sorry but he's not going to win a lot of votes if some of the earlier matches are anything to go by), move Koeman back (it's one CF after all for two CBs and he can still make the play) and move Bergomi right (makes sense to have a defender first and foremost behind Cristiano).
Yeah, that would've been much better
 

diarm

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Two strong if imperfect teams. I think both midfields are a little bit off with Sammer/Koeman both wearing two hats and probably not quite fully convincing at either of them. I generally prefer both of them coming onto the game rather than facing their own goal. Quite like the concept of Koeman in front of the centre-halves though and he has the range and vision to dictate the match from there. But that does make him responsible for matching Platini's runs which is a concern for Diarm. To be honest I'd rather see Voronin on the park (if there's anything Diarm's attack needs it is some grizzle and graft in midfield), jettison Janes (sorry but he's not going to win a lot of votes if some of the earlier matches are anything to go by), move Koeman back (it's one CF after all for two CBs and he can still make the play) and move Bergomi right (makes sense to have a defender first and foremost behind Cristiano).
Believe me, I battled between two lineups - the one you've outlined being the other. I liked this because of the license it gives Koeman. We'll see though, I have the other lineup saved and ready for an early sub if necessary.

What's with diarm's midfield :annoyed:
Why even bother to pick Voronin if you're going to start with midfield duo of Ocwirk and Zidane :lol:
It's not really a midfield duo though, not with the role Koeman is playing and the shape of the team when we don't have the ball. It's a ploy to deliberately move the ball away from a midfield battle and use the passing range of Ocwirk and Koeman.
 

Invictus

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Two strong if imperfect teams. I think both midfields are a little bit off with Sammer/Koeman both wearing two hats and probably not quite fully convincing at either of them. I generally prefer both of them coming onto the game rather than facing their own goal. Quite like the concept of Koeman in front of the centre-halves though and he has the range and vision to dictate the match from there. But that does make him responsible for matching Platini's runs which is a concern for Diarm. To be honest I'd rather see Voronin on the park (if there's anything Diarm's attack needs it is some grizzle and graft in midfield), jettison Janes (sorry but he's not going to win a lot of votes if some of the earlier matches are anything to go by), move Koeman back (it's one CF after all for two CBs and he can still make the play) and move Bergomi right (makes sense to have a defender first and foremost behind Cristiano).
Don't see why Sammer's role is going to be a problem. We have defined what it entails in the OP itself to prevent future circle-jerk discussions dissecting a very lucid situation from our end (like the one in Balu vs Polaroid even though Balu made his point clear over and over again against the general flow of the pre-established/ orthodox narrative):
So, let's talk about Matthias Sammer. But wait, first - let's segue into another issue - what separates the good from the truly great? Consistency, length of career, achievements, performances in key moments, peaks - all these things are generally at the top of the list when separating them in a spectrum. But one thing that is often underrated is the ability of the greats to play beyond their limits - to be overtasked and still perform exceptionally - that can often separate them from the hoi polloi.

Within the framework of our team, Sammer has complete freedom to help out defensively and offensively as he feels fit, just like he's done a thousand times before. He is joining the midfield battle to make it a 3 and assert his dominance as an advanced libero (which is kind of what the modern defensive midfielder is) - fluidly transitioning between roles, keeping an eye on the opposition's most creative player (Zidane) and containing his influence, reading the game and act accordingly, operating in the free/ libero role to influence the game, linking up with Redondo, moving the chains for Platini, dropping slightly deeper from time to time to stifle out attacks, cutting off the supply routes to Batistuta, and supporting the attacking game from a 'sunken' midfield position with grace and skill - he will be exactly where he needs to be - the active heartbeat of our XI.

Is he overtasked with all these roles? You betcha. But that's the beauty of it, and that's why Sammer was chosen - he can perform this free role as well as anyone in football history bar only Der Kaiser himself. That's just what great players do, especially ones as intelligent as Sammer - they operate at 110%, and they make physical sacrifices for the team when the match is at stake. The more that's asked of Sammer, the better he'll perform, the more he's stretched to his limits defensively, the better he'll tackle. They didn't call playing against him like playing with a team that has 12 players for nothing. And since he's a better defender than every defensive midfielder in the draft by virtue of actually being a world class pure defender, he provides a magnificent sense of stability and dynamism to our team from the general defensive midfield area.
Sammer is one of the few players in football history who can actually excel (not just function) in that 'free' role - given that he was rated International Class in 3.5 seasons as a defensive midfielder by BILD to go with his further record as a libero - and he was a more attacking libero than a defensive sweeper anyway. Too much inflexibility, and adherence to certain stereotypes can stifle the kind of tactics we want to implement as managers IMO.

As for Bergomi at fullback, that wasn't his ideal position either. He was more of a deep cover defender when fielded there (much like Burnich), so if diarm does put him there, we have a couple points to raise concerning that change:

Usually, linear thought kind of dictates that the interesting dual between Gento and Bergomi might be a stalemate based on their historical stature, but here we'd like to differ. Part of creating mismatches isn't just about putting your players in a position to succeed based on their general profile, but seeking out physical mismatches. Like Torres vs Vidić to cite one example - the latter was a great defender who thwarted some of the finest attackers of his era - some who were much better than Torres in terms of overall profile; but he was vulnerable when facing Torres' explosiveness. Or even a scrub like Lennon who frequently torched some fine defenders.

Bergomi was a tough defender, but one of his few flaws was lack of pace and agility to keep up with an all-time speed merchant like Gento (ran 100m in 11 sec) on the flank, especially with Platini servicing the Spaniard. It's all about relatives, and in relative terms - there's a massive mismatch here in terms of speed and turn of direction after the touch - which was specialty of Gento, so Gento will run riot peppering balls from all sort of depths (this is key if Bergomi stays back) and angles. If the change is made, we fully expect Gento to lose his marker over and over again based on pure turn pace, and exploit this chink in the opposition's defense - neither Koeman nor Santamaria is suited to contain aerial bombardments with Van Basten as the target. Just one sample of his relentless quickness when running behind defenders, or taking them head on:


Yeah, Bergomi marked Rummenigge - which might be the next argument, but Kalle wasn't as rapid as Gento nor a flank hugger, and he had a previous thigh injury which further slowed him down:
Rossi scored another goal and made a contribution on a second. Rummenigge, obviously still slowed down by a thigh injury, was also slowed down by 18-year-old Giuseppe Bergomi.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/07/12/sports/the-man-who-marked-rummenigge.html

Plus, Bergomi's conservative nature raises another issue in terms of mismatch:

Our team has the ability to engage all 5 channels in attack. The Gento/ Cole duo can operate in both the outside left, and inside left channels given the complete nature of both players out wide. The Meazza/ Briegel duo can operate in both the outside right and inside right channels given the ability of the former to play as an inside forward and the latter to play as a hybrid wingback. And the middle portion of the pitch is both dynamic and superb in both phases of the game. In comparison with that, Bergomi can't quite provide the attacking impetus to free up both channels for the opposition because he was mostly a deep cover defender - as opposed to a proper fullback, and neither can De Vechi.
 

harms

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I didn't like 4 post write-up though, had to be said
 

Invictus

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And before folk go Cristiano ermegahd, let's look at who he is against here - Ashley Cole, who has a proven record against Ronaldo.
Not many full-backs tame Cristiano Ronaldo, but Ashley Cole's record against the Portuguese is phenomenal (we reckon CR9 only started playing through the middle just to get away from the England defender).
He consistently got the better of the Portuguese, even shut him down from that position.
 

Physiocrat

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@diarm Have you anything else on Ocwirk? If he can pull off an incredible job I think you've got a chance. I like the use of Koeman but not sure how it'll work with Ocwirk.
 

Enigma_87

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First off, two very good sides. I really like Sammer/Redondo and don't have issues with it. Sammer can perfectly fit in the DM/holding role as well as Redondo in the holding/box to box role.

Up field MvB/Platini IMO also match very well and Cannavaro/Stam is solid partnership each bringing something to the table.

Diarm as well Santamaria/Bergomi is an excellent pair that match well, Ocwirk/Zidane/Batistuta I have no issues with. However I have to echo Gio and others sentiments. I don't like Koeman in that role, Voronin will fit much better. Having a more defensive minded RB in Bergomi there would also make sense combining with C.Ronaldo(to be fair I know absolutely nothing about Janes and De vecchi), Koeman paired with Santamaria will not be as good as Santamaria/Bergomi, but IMO would suit the team better.

Ronaldinho/Ronaldo on the flanks is also tasty.

For Invictus/Theon side I have two issues with it. One is Briegel on the right side. He was primarily a left back or a DM.Then Meazza to provide width as he's definitely more central as well from what I know or an inside forward.

Cole/Briegel I don't think will overlap that often since the'll have their hands full with the 2 Ronnies.

All in all I'm still pondering here. I think if diarms has Bergomi/Ronaldo on the right will have a bit of an edge here. But will still hear from both managers to decide which way to go.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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To be honest I'd rather see Voronin on the park (if there's anything Diarm's attack needs it is some grizzle and graft in midfield), jettison Janes (sorry but he's not going to win a lot of votes if some of the earlier matches are anything to go by), move Koeman back (it's one CF after all for two CBs and he can still make the play) and move Bergomi right (makes sense to have a defender first and foremost behind Cristiano).
Nail on the head.

I really like Sammer/Redondo and don't have issues with it. Sammer can perfectly fit in the DM/holding role as well as Redondo in the holding/box to box role.
Sammer's peak was as a libero. Not in this DM dropping back into defensive role. I've played him in a similar role before and always got the same feedback. And going by the teamsheet, don't believe he is playing a libero.
 

diarm

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Ernst Ocwirk

One of Austria's most skilful players of the post-war era, Ernst Ocwirk was at the heart of the team which reached the semi-final of the World Cup in 1954. One of the last old-fashioned attacking centre-halves, he spent much of career with Austria Vienna but was also one of the first Austrians to make an impact in Serie A. His style of play later helped to define the position of a holding defensive midfielder.

Ocwirk developed a reputation as one of the most stylish and technically gifted centre-halves in the game. Such was his consistency on the pitch, the British media nicknamed him 'clockwork' in a play on his surname. He was particularly known for his aerial ability and range of passing, especially over longer distances.

Hugely successful in Austrian domestic football, Ocwirk is probably best known for captaining and inspiring Austria to a third place finish at the 1954 world cup, where he was named (alongside Jose Santamaria incidentally) in the name of the tournament. He sits alongside Matthias Sindelar as Austria's finest ever footballers and is one of the founding fathers of the modern defensive midfielder.
 

Enigma_87

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Sammer's peak was as a libero. Not in this DM dropping back into defensive role. I've played him in a similar role before and always got the same feedback. And going by the teamsheet, don't believe he is playing a libero.
I think he's playing in a defensive/holding role not dropping back in defence? Just covering the ground in front of the CB pair which he's surely capable of.

If you referring to the 96 EURO - yes he played as a sweeper there and in their 97 campaign I think as well.

The only thing that irks me a bit which I just saw was this

Within the framework of our team, Sammer has complete freedom to help out defensively and offensively as he feels fit, just like he's done a thousand times before.
I don't think in this set up, he'll be useful in the attacking end. If he's playing in this role then what should be Redondo's role?
 

Invictus

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For Invictus/Theon side I have two issues with it. One is Briegel on the right side. He was primarily a left back or a DM. Then Meazza to provide width as he's definitely more central as well from what I know or an inside forward.

Cole/Briegel I don't think will overlap that often since the'll have their hands full with the 2 Ronnies.

All in all I'm still pondering here. I think if diarms has Bergomi/Ronaldo on the right will have a bit of an edge here. But will still hear from both managers to decide which way to go.
Before this Briegel on the right argument escalates further, we'd just to state that he could play on both flanks at a very high level so we honestly don't think it's going to be a problem here. He was targeted specifically by us because of the versatility he provides, as well as the ability to be moved to different positions to match the opposition personnel.
Position : Left, Right-Wing-Back and Center
Briegel was famous as a versatile and very completed German defender. He could highly perform as stopper and wing-back in both side with supporting by his superb physical strength and stamina
Trashy music, but further evidence of playing on both flanks:
Tiny detail, but vs Maradona on the right at the start.

Don't see why Bergomi and Ronaldo might have an edge either if the former is moved out wide, as opposed to Janes and Ronaldo. Cole had an exceptional record against Ronaldo, and we've highlighted that a couple posts above this one - it's a matchup nightmare for the opposition and Cristiano is not very likely to get much joy against a player who can keep up with him in athletic terms, as well as someone who has the defensive nous to read his moves. Plus, we've kind of addressed an advantage Gento will have vs Bergomi (if he's shifted to the right) a couple of posts above that one - especially when it leaves 5'10 and 5'11 Koeman + Santamaria vs an all time header like Van Basten if it's configured that way.

Also, just to touch upon the role Koeman has here, he's not the most mobile player to put it mildly - a fact that is brought up in every draft matchday thread - but this one for some reason; and almost as importantly - played mostly in total football setups to mask that innate weakness, a luxury he does not have here with a lot of individualists in the team. Which leads to another issue - who's taking care of Platini - the best player on the pitch, as well as the best passer on the pitch - who can unleash Gento? Can Koeman really keep tabs on him?

Another thing - the opposition has gameplanned to lure us out and strike us on the counter. But we have no presented ourselves as a high pressing team that will lose its shape merely by the threat of ball possession, and we expect to have the bigger share of the ball anyway. And, our defense has the athleticism to keep up with their counter-attacks most the most part. Cole, Briegel, Stam and Cannavaro were exceptionally quick and nimble.

And last point (for now) - Meazza is not being fielded to 'provide width' - something that was brought up. His role is specified in the OP, and we even pointed his arrows towards a more central-ish position rather than vertically; so he should be conflated with a traditional winger:
and is perfect for our setup because he excelled in the right inside forward role - which he plays here
Width as in - in synergy with Briegel - who was a brilliant wingback and will overlap when the right opportunity presents itself. It's going to be a calculated approach.
 

diarm

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I'm not going to get drawn into attacking world class players here. It's silly and unnecessary. Every player on every pitch in this draft is a great and they don't need to be belittled or talked down to make and argument for your own side.

I will just question a couple of your points:

Which leads to another issue - who's taking care of Platini - the best player on the pitch, as well as the best passer on the pitch - who can unleash Gento? Can Koeman really keep tabs on him?.
Calling Platini the best player on a pitch with Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten and Ronaldinho on it is speculative at best.

Also, drafting Ashley Cole does not give you a Cristiano proof vest that suddenly negates him from a game full of top players. The majority of games Ronaldo played against Cole were in the earlier stages of his career, playing in very different teams with very different players.
 

diarm

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Renzo De Vecchi


Left Back
Milan 1909-1913
Genoa 1913-1929
Italy 1910-1925​

Renzo De Vecchi was the first of the great Italian, superstar defenders. He is widely recognised as the worlds finest defender of the 1910’s and early 1920’s, and was among the very first players to feature on the cover of magazines or to be used in product advertising, such was his status at the time.

De Vecchi remains the youngest player ever to debut for AC Milan and the youngest player ever to play for the Italian national side. This is a defender. In Italy. Who first played for Milan aged 15 and then the national side at just 16 years of age.

Known by Milan fans as "Il Figlio di Dio" or The Son of God, De Vecchi was small in stature but possessed blistering pace, great strength and superb technical ability. He was first given his nickname by Gazette della Sport journalist Emilio Colombo who watched the youngster in 1909, before he had even turned 15. Reporting after the match that his movement and trickery on the field had moved him to tears, Colombo penned the famous line: “But that child is the Son of God!”.

Adored by the Milan faithful, De Vecchi excited the football public with his technical skill, pace and agility in attack, even if his true art was always defending. It was commonly believed that he was impossible to dribble against. His quick feet and quicker mind were simply too much for even the finest attackers of the day.

In stark contrast to the better defenders of his era, De Vecchi was also known and admired for being a clean and efficient player. He relied on his speed, awareness and keen defensive understanding, instead of throwing himself into challenges or roughhousing. As such, he very rarely conceded free kicks or cards.

Italian football remained strictly amateur until 1926 although this did not prevent Genoa paying 24 thousand lira to sign De Vecchi in 1913 when he was still only 19 years old. This was almost certainly a world record transfer, and likely stood for a number of years, although the fee plus his large playing fee, were hidden as travel expenses and payment for his phony role as a bank clerk at the Banca Commerciale di Genova.

At Genoa, De Vecchi developed from a young, brilliant superstar to become the leader, captain and talisman of their great 3 time Scudetto winning side. His peak came after the war as he led Genoa to the second of their three titles in 1923, going the entire 28 match season unbeaten. It was at this time that the wonderful Bologna forward, Giuseppe Della Valle publicly complained that in dozens of performances against De Vecchi, he had never once managed to get past him! He was also Italy’s best player throughout this time, captaining the national side for 26 of his 43 caps and performing at Olympic games in 1912, 1920 and 1924.

http://memim.com/renzo-de-vecchi.html
http://milanlegends.com/first-ac-milan-legend-de-vecchi/
http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.sg/2013/09/renzo-de-vecchi-figlio-di-dio.html
http://www.magliarossonera.it/protagonisti/Gioc-Devecchire.html
http://generazioneditalenti.forumfree.it/?t=40646396
 

Chesterlestreet

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Didn't we agree to keep these write-ups/profiles out of the actual match threads?

A link will do the job, ffs.

Write a bloody novel if you like, but leave it elsewhere and provide a link.
 

Invictus

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Calling Platini the best player on a pitch with Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten and Ronaldinho on it is speculative at best.
It's not speculative though. Platini is probably the best player at that position bar only Di Stéfano. Zico comes close, infact a lot of people consider them to be equals behind Di Stéfano, but if push comes to shove, we're going to stick with the Frenchman rather than the Brazilian; and a lot of others would too, even though they might not admit it in a draft situation. Even a lot of the 'rankings' agree with us here (not conclusive evidence, but just to show that we aren't espousing disingenuous opinions with our assessment of him, and a lot of credible systems do agree with us by and large). The likes of Zidane and Ronaldinho simply don't belong in that GOAT tier (though we do agree that it's better not to engage in dick-measuring contests like you rightly pointed out). That said, just for the record:

Second List (classified)
ADEMIR Marques de Menezes 1. Pelé (Brazil)
Jose Leandro ANDRADE 2. Diego Maradona (Argentina)
Roberto BAGGIO 3. Johan Cruyff (Netherlands)
Gordon BANKS 4. Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
Franceschino 'Franco' BARESI 5. Michel Platini (France)
Franz BECKENBAUER 6. Alfredo Di Stéfano (Argentina/Spain)
George BEST 7. Ferenc Puskás (Hungary/Spain)
Franz 'Bimbo' BINDER 8. George Best (Northern Ireland)
Danny BLANCHFLOWER 9. Marco van Basten (Netherlands)
Oleg BLOKHIN 10. Eusébio (Portugal)
Jozsef BOZSIK 11. Lev Yashin (Soviet Union)
Antonio CARBAJAL 12. Bobby Charlton (England)
John CHARLES 13. Ronaldo (Brazil)
Bobby CHARLTON 14. Bobby Moore (England)
Hector CHUMPITAZ 15. Gerd Müller (Germany)
Mario Esteves COLUNA 16. Roberto Baggio (Italy)
Gianpiero COMBI 17. Stanley Matthews (England)
Johan CRUYFF 18. Zico (Brazil)
Teofilo CUBILLAS 19. Franco Baresi (Italy)
Zoltan CZIBOR 20. Garrincha (Brazil)
Kenny DALGLISH 21. Paolo Maldini (Italy)
William 'Dixie' DEAN 22. Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)
Alfredo DI STEFANO 23. Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina)
DIDI (Waldyr Pereira) 24. Eric Cantona (France)
DOMINGOS Antonio DA GUIA 25. Gheorghe Hagi (Romania)
Duncan EDWARDS 26. Romário (Brazil)
Arsenio ERICO 27. Jairzinho (Brazil)
EUSEBIO da Silva Ferreira 28. Zinedine Zidane (France)
France Football's Football Player of the Century:
1. Edson Arantes do Nascimento "PELÉ" (Brazil) 122 pts (17 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 1)
2. Diego MARADONA (Argentina) 65 ( 3 - 6 - 5 - 5 - 1)
3. Johan CRUYFF (Netherlands) 62 ( 1 - 4 - 7 - 9 - 2)
4. Alfredo DI STEFANO (Argentina/Spain) 44 ( 4 - 3 - 3 - 1 - 1)
5. Michel PLATINI (France) 40 ( 1 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6)
6. Franz BECKENBAUER (Germany) 35 ( 2 - 1 - 3 - 3 - 6)
7. Ferenc PUSKAS (Hungary) 12 ( 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 - 0)
8. Marco VAN BASTEN (Netherlands) 11 ( 0 - 0 - 3 - 1 - 0)
9. Artur Antunes Coimbra "ZICO" (Brazil) 7 ( 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0)
10. Gerd MÜLLER (Germany) 5 ( 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0)
Guerin' Sportivo's I 50 Grandi del Secolo by Adalberto Bortolotti
1.Pelé
2.Diego Armando Maradona "Splendori e cadute del Pibe de Oro"
3.Alfredo Di Stefano "La freccia bionda"
4.Johan Cruijff "Il campione della nuova frontiera"
5.Giuseppe Meazza "Il Balilla, fra gol e magie"
6.Ferenc Puskas "Il colonnello Bum Bum"
7.Valentino Mazzola "L'uomo simbolo del Grande Torino"
8.Juan Alberto Schiaffino "Il Pepe del Diavolo"
9.Michel Platini "Regista e solista, Michel le Roi"
10.Franz Beckenbauer "Tutti ai piedi di Kaiser Franz"
11.Marco Van Basten "Il bomber degli Anni '90"
Placar's 100 Craques do Século
1.Édson Arantes do Nascimento - PELÉ (Brazil)
2.Diego Armando MARADONA (Argentina)
3.Johann CRUYFF (Netherlands)
4.Manoel Francisco dos Santos - GARRINCHA (Brazil)
5.Franz BECKENBAUER (Germany)
6.Alfredo DI STEFANO (Argentina)
7.Ferenc PUSKAS (Hungary)
8.Michel PLATINI (France)
World - Player of the Century
."Pelé" (Brazil) 1705 (Edson Arantes do Nascimento)
2.Johan Cruijff (Netherlands) 1303
3.Franz Beckenbauer (Germany) 1228
4.Alfredo di Stéfano (Argentina) 1215
5.Diego Armando Maradona (Argentina) 1214
6.Ferenc Puskás (Hungary) 810
7.Michel Platini (France) 722
8.Garrincha (Brazil) 624 (Manoel dos Santos Garrincha)
9.Eusébio (Portugal) 544 (Eusébio Ferreira da Silva)
10.Robert Charlton (England) 508
11.Stanley Matthews (England) 368
12.Marco van Basten (Netherlands) 315
Europe - Player of the Century
1.Johan Cruijff (Netherlands) 753
2.Franz Beckenbauer (Germany) 709
3.Alfredo di Stéfano (Spain) 708
4.Ferenc Puskás (Hungary) 667
5.Michel Platini (France) 505
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html
 

Enigma_87

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Before this Briegel on the right argument escalates further, we'd just to state that he could play on both flanks at a very high level so we honestly don't think it's going to be a problem here. He was targeted specifically by us because of the versatility he provides, as well as the ability to be moved to different positions to match the opposition personnel.
Not to drag into it, just pointed it out as I'm not sure I've seen him play there regularly.

Don't see why Bergomi and Ronaldo might have an edge either if the former is moved out wide, as opposed to Janes and Ronaldo. Cole had an exceptional record against Ronaldo, and we've highlighted that a couple posts above this one - it's a matchup nightmare for the opposition and Cristiano is not very likely to get much joy against a player who can keep up with him in athletic terms, as well as someone who has the defensive nous to read his moves. Plus, we've kind of addressed an advantage Gento will have vs Bergomi (if he's shifted to the right) a couple of posts above that one - especially when it leaves 5'10 and 5'11 Koeman + Santamaria vs an all time header like Van Basten if it's configured that way.
I don't know much of Janes and I'm not sure how pairing with Ronaldo would work. Bergomi on the flank however work very well imo.

I think Voronin - due to the same mobility you mentioned will fill in the DM role much better.
 

diarm

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Those lists always underrate more modern players. It's human nature to say the olden times were better. In 30 years, I am positive that both Zidane and Ronaldo will feature on every one of those lists.
 

harms

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Those lists always underrate more modern players. It's human nature to say the olden times were better. In 30 years, I am positive that both Zidane and Ronaldo will feature on every one of those lists.
Zidane is a worse passer than Platini and a worse goalscorer, it's pretty easy to decide between them. Ronaldo will feature though, no question about it.
 

diarm

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OK so my daring ploy isn't going down too well it seems. As I mentioned earlier, I battled between two line ups and decided on this one largely because it is easier to tweak to a more conventional formation in match, and with the particular attributes of Voronin I can do so while still employing Koeman as a playmaker.



Valery Voronin comes in as a world class destroying defensive midfielder. He will add energy, power and tenacity to my midfield and importantly, was a very capable central defender in his own right. This ability will also him to step back and provide cover for Koeman as the dutchman carries the ball out of defence and looks to launch attacks from deep.

Bergomi moves out to the right as a limited fullback, strengthening our defence out wide while De Vecchi will be employed slightly more conservatively on the left, although he will still have occasional opportunities to push forward with and use his ability and speed with the ball at his feet.

Voronin's presence will allow Ocwirk greater licence to push forward and link with Zidane in building attacks, although he will still provide a valuable defensive presence - particularly from set pieces where his famed aerial ability (along with that of Bergomi and Ronaldo) will be important.

Finally, the beauty of having two wide attackers who could play on either flank allows me to circumvent the impossible and magnificent Ronaldo-defying talents of Ashley Cole. While I do prefer Ronaldinho on the left, he often did a fine job from the right hand side and will do well in this slightly more tucked in role, providing a very different and less direct challenge for Cole to deal with. Any downsides to switching him are relieved by Ronaldo, who I always preferred when employed on the left - particularly here with the mouthwatering prospect of him combinging with the speedy De Vecchi on the overlap against a fullback who, while capable as a right back, was predominantly known for his performances on the left.
 
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Invictus

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Those lists always underrate more modern players. It's human nature to say the olden times were better. In 30 years, I am positive that both Zidane and Ronaldo will feature on every one of those lists.
Fair enough mate. However, we do have some sort of evidence to back up our claim wrt Platini. And until Zidane or Ronaldo ascend to that tier and there's broader evidence for it, calling Platini the best player on the pitch, followed by Van Basten is not a preposterous assessment.

And just to touch upon the Cole part:
Also, drafting Ashley Cole does not give you a Cristiano proof vest that suddenly negates him from a game full of top players. The majority of games Ronaldo played against Cole were in the earlier stages of his career, playing in very different teams with very different players.
Not negate per se, what we wanted to point out is that Cole has a tremendous overall record when facing Cristiano, something that should be taken into consideration in a draft setting where individual matchups are often brought up and highlighted, and it's not like we're the pioneers of the concept either. We didn't necessarily say that Cristiano will be wiped out of the face of the Earth, merely that Cole is better equipped than most (maybe even to ideal levels) given their history when facing each other. Also, wrt the point about Cristiano facing Cole in the early stages of his career, he is being fielded in a role from that period of his career here - that was the role he evolved, or rather devolved out of - that skilled right winger metamorphosed into a hybrid left sided forward for United and Madrid - if you want the latter version of him, let's move him to the left and make allowances for that, because one simply can't have it both ways - him on the right and a considerably better producer too.

Also, wrt the different teams and team-mates part, we are being forced to engage in something that we didn't plan of doing initially - and that is the chemistry between him, and Zidane, and Ronaldinho. To extract the best out of Ronaldo, one kind of has to build the system to his needs (make allowances for him, like Fergie did using Rooney and Tevez); to bring our the best in Zidane, one must build the system to his needs (like Juventus did, and he's quite prone to looking off other offensive player too - like Henry, with whom he had an oftentimes tumultuous on-field relationship). Without resorting to the cliched 'too many cooks' argument per se, we will instead say this - perhaps there are too many individualistic components at play there, ones that need sacrifices from other offensive players around them (Benzema, Rooney, Tevez and the likes for Ronaldo in particular). Which leads to the question - who is going to make the sacrifices? Because one can't have them at 100% in this particular setup all at once.

In stark contrast with that - someone like a Gento worked brilliantly with Di Stéfano and the Hungarian - as a third wheel of sorts. So there's a natural harmony between him and Platini the master orchestrator, and we can project that to our team with some sort of gumption. Additionally, as suggested before - Sammer is better equipped at dealing with Zidane, than Koeman is with Platini - that will effect their performances (in relative terms) even more.
 

Gio

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Before this Briegel on the right argument escalates further, we'd just to state that he could play on both flanks at a very high level so we honestly don't think it's going to be a problem here. He was targeted specifically by us because of the versatility he provides, as well as the ability to be moved to different positions to match the opposition personnel.
Funnily enough I decided against drafting Briegel as a right-back when he was available. Not that he couldn't do a job there, I just couldn't be arsed defending his relative unfamiliarity with the position - and decided it would be safer plumping for Andrade there. :wenger: Well that went well.
 

Gio

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@diarm That's a solid move. And it's always welcome to see a manager make an effort to mitigate the brilliance of an opponent as you've done there with Platini.
 

diarm

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@Invictus You raised some fair points there, even if a couple had already been addressed or tweaked as you were typing them! ;)

As for the Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez dynamic, that was something I took into serious consideration when drafting my attack. I sometimes think the allowances Cristiano was given at United are overstated because of how many he has been given at Madrid. Yes he was the head honcho of that attack but he was never the be all and end all of it. Rooney and Tevez were important portions in their own rights. It was quite different to what we've seen at Madrid where the who set up revolved around him.

Even still, he will be my most important attacker and in recognising that, I opted for Batistuta earlier than some might have thought he would go. I see Batigol as the player Rooney wishes he was. Yes he is a great striker, but he was so much more than that. His work outside the box and with his back to goal was immense. he could be selfless and warrior like in harassing defenders. Ronnie for Tevez is a less like for like replacement but he is a player capable of supplying a very different foil to Cristiano's directness and pace, or Batistuta's power and presence. While the defence is concerned with the damage Ronaldo can do if he gets in behind them, or the disruption of Batigol among them, they also have to decide how to counter Ronaldinho getting into the spaces in front of them.
 

harms

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Changed from 2 goals to a goal, good sub
 

Invictus

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Funnily enough I decided against drafting Briegel as a right-back when he was available. Not that he couldn't do a job there, I just couldn't be arsed defending his relative unfamiliarity with the position - and decided it would be safer plumping for Andrade there. :wenger: Well that went well.
:lol: To be honest, we gave both him and Andrade a long, hard look - but ultimately settled on Briegel, and as luck would have it - he fell right into our laps. As did Cole, who's the perfect addition for this round.

And, in light of the tactical changes:

José Emilio Santamaria: 178 cm
Ronald Koeman: Height: 181 cm

vs this magnificent, acrobatic marvel in the air who has the leap of a ninja to go with the quantified physical advantage:



Considered to be the most comprehensive header of the ball in striker positions after only Sándor Kocsis. Not too shabby that. :eek:
 

Theon

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Changed from 2 goals to a goal, good sub
@diarm I think that's a lot better personally.
@diarm That's a solid move. And it's always welcome to see a manager make an effort to mitigate the brilliance of an opponent as you've done there with Platini.
It's certainly a better set up because Koeman should never have been in that role in the first place, but lets not go overboard.

Platini is slightly more mitigated but it's the exact opposite with Marco van Basten - Bergomi was Diarm's best defender and it's pretty clear that Van Basten is now facing an inferior set of centre backs.

Purely in terms of height it's an absolute mismatch - To the extent where I think the clearest route to goal on the entire pitch is comfortably Gento beating his man and crossing it into the 6 ft 3 Van Basten.

He's one of the best headers of a football to ever play the game.


 
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diarm

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:lol: To be honest, we gave both him and Andrade a long, hard look - but ultimately settled on Briegel, and as luck would have it - he fell right into our laps. As did Cole, who's the perfect addition for this round.

And, in light of the tactical changes:

José Emilio Santamaria: 178 cm
Ronald Koeman: Height: 181 cm

Considered to be the most comprehensive header of the ball in striker positions after only Sándor Kocsis. Not too shabby that. :eek:
See the key thing is, that to get into positions to put in balls and make use of that heading ability, you need to get past a man who they said could not be dribbled past on one side, and Giuseppe Bergomi on the other. I don't see Meazza being that player but of course, Gento will create some opportunities. But he will have his work cut out and it's still one center forward, attacking crosses against two centre backs, neither of whom were known for being weak in the air and a goalkeeper who was renowned for his ability to deal with crosses.

I maintain that there are far more obvious routes to goal for my attack.
 

diarm

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Platini is slightly more mitigated but it's the exact opposite with Marco van Basten - Bergomi was Diarm's best defender it's pretty clear that Van Basten is now facing a set of centre backs.

Purely in terms of it's an absolute mismatch - To the extent where I think the clearest route to goal on the entire pitch is comfortably Gento beating his man and crossing it into the 6 ft 3 Van Basten.
You've literally just conceded that your clearest route to goal is by beating my best defender. Your words not mine.

If I was using my words, I would say the route you feel is your key avenue to my goal goes through the best defender on the pitch by a distance.
 

Invictus

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Hmm, aren't we kind of forgetting about a certain someone?

Giuseppe Meazza - The Legend

Coming into the 2012/13 winter break, I thought I'd look at an Inter legend who is still considered one of the all-time greats of football -- Giuseppe Meazza, a striker so great that it was only fitting to name the San Siro Stadium after him.

His story begins a hundred years before Jose Mourinho led Inter to their historic Triplete, when he was born in Milano on August 23, 1910. The young 'Peppe' had a love for football even as a boy, although his mother preferred to have him helping her run the family fresh fruit market stall. This was a completely different age than today. Football wasn't considered a worthy career so his mother saw no benefit to him wasting his time with the sport; she even went as far as to take his shoes away from him to discourage the lad from playing.

Meazza had other ideas and learned to play in the streets, barefooted, and using a ball made of rags. As you will see later in this article, Meazza was never one to follow the rules. As a youngster, Meazza actually admired AC Milan, but was turned down by them for being too skinny. Inter weren't so easily dissuaded, and after a Nerazzurri scout witnessed him juggling his rag ball on the streets of Milan, he was quickly signed. Inter set to work bulking up their young talent with a diet of steak while honing his football skills.

Meazza was, in fact, a player decades ahead of his time, with a scoring record of 241 goals in 348 games during his time at Inter, not to mention the additional 33 goals he scored in his 53 appearances for Italy, a feat that made him the Azzurri's highest scoring player until 1973 when Gigi Riva broke the record. Despite his record being broken, 'Peppe' still holds second place all these years later.

It wasn't just his scoring talent that made him such a fantastic footballer, he also possessed skills on the ball that would even have Lionel Messi mesmorized. He was a complete footballer who used his passion for dancing the tango to assist him on the pitch with his trademark twists and turns. Though not the tallest player, he was excellent in the air, had a truly inspiring vision for the game across the field of play, and by playing with both feet, he was a brilliant passer of the ball. All these skills meant he could not only score countless goals, but he also provided many for his teammates too.

The famous Italian intellectual Luigi Veronelli once said of Meazza: "I also saw Pele playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, I witnessed him doing something astonishing. He stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on to score a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter."

During the 1933 season, the Juventus goalkeeper, Giampiero Combi, made two bets with Meazza ahead of the game in Milan between Meazza's Ambrosiana Inter and Combi's Juventus. The first was that he claimed 'Peppe' could not repeat a stunning bicycle kick goal that he scored in training with the Italian national team against Combi a few weeks earlier, and the second was that Meazza would be unable to achieve his trademark goal of sidestepping the keeper and simply tapping the ball into the net against the Bianconeri shot-stopper.

The day of the game came around, and Combi lost both bets as Meazza first scored an identical goal with a bicycle kick, and then 'Peppe' dribbled through the line of defenders before taking the ball past Combi to tap in the second. After the second goal, Combi jumped to his feet astounded, and insisted on shaking Meazza's hand mid-game.

As you can see, Meazza, even by today's standards, could easily be described as one of, if not the best in the game. That being said, Meazza wasn't a model athlete by any means. He had a weakness for several vices which saw him drinking and frequenting brothels the night before matches. He was also the only Inter player at that time that was permitted to smoke.

This love for alcohol and women often got the talented striker into trouble with the club's directors, as Meazza himself revealed once in an interview: "Luckily I lived near the stadium, and I managed to get there in a rush. My teammates and the coach looked at me disapprovingly. It was only five minutes before the kick-off, so I quickly changed and joined the team on the pitch. I could hear the Inter directors saying: 'We'll deal with him after the match. We'll find out what he's been up to.' Luckily I scored a hat-trick so afterwards no one said a word!"

His huge talent meant that he could get away with almost anything, and he often took advantage of this. Even a night of heavy drinking and sex before the 1937 match against Juventus didn't stop the rebellious striker from scoring a brace, and taking the award for the best player on the pitch. The story goes that the Inter directors had to send two staff members to look for him when he didn't show up shortly before kick-off, and they found him snoring in bed and had to drag him half-asleep to the stadium, all the while telling about how the night before had made him feel like a lion.

Of course, behaviour like that wouldn't be tolerated these days, no matter how good you were on the pitch, but all those years ago it was part of the charm of the man. The late great Peppino Prisco considered him to be the best of all time: "Meazza was great, unbeatable, even if he would occasionally run into a frightful crisis, caused by his intense sexual activity and his passion for the game. When he took over on the field, he did things that left the mouth ajar."

Meazza eventually did sign for his boyhood team, Milan, and following his two year stint on the red side of Milan, he even played for Inter's other fierce rival, Juventus, as well as Varese and Atalanta. At the end of his career, he returned for his swan song with Inter as a player/coach. It was however, his 13 years with FC Internazionale between 1927 and 1940 that saw his greatest success, winning three Scudetti, a Coppa Italia title, and during the same period he even won two World Cups with the Italian national team. These achievements made him the first ever worldwide football superstar, and he was also the first player to gain a personal sponsor. Anyone who knows anything about football should consider him one of the greatest strikers in the history of the game.

After being a player/coach for Inter, he then made history once again by becoming one of the first Italians to coach abroad with Besiktas, before returning to Italy to coach Pro Patria and the Italian national team. Meazza, like all the true club legends, could not keep away from the club where he made his name, returning to coach Inter in 1955/56 and 1957. This was to be his last coaching job, and he passed away many years later in 1979 at age 68.

As you can see, Meazza did many great things for Inter on the pitch, and had an effect as well off of it where he worked as a youth coach for the Nerazzurri. In fact, it was Meazza who convinced another Inter legend to sign for the club -- the young Sandro Mazzola.

Meazza, without knowing it at the time, would become the first legend of not just Inter, but also world football, with his legacy living on through the world's greatest players today.
21st greatest footballer of all time according to the IFFHS World Player of the Century elections.
15th greatest footballer of all time according to the Europe Player of the Century elections.
2nd greatest Italian footballer of all time according to the Italy Player of the Century elections segment.

33 goals in 53 matches for Italy.
269 goals in 440 Serie A matches.

Twice World Cup winner, once as a captain.
World Cup Golden Ball winner.
3 times Serie A top scorer (Capocannoniere).

And, how many footballers can talk about having a stadium like 'San Siro' named in their honor?

 

Theon

Lord of the Iron Islands
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
13,289
You've literally just conceded that your clearest route to goal is by beating my best defender. Your words not mine.

If I was using my words, I would say the route you feel is your key avenue to my goal goes through the best defender on the pitch by a distance.
I'm saying the clearest route to goal is quite clearly the three time Ballon d'Or winning, 6 ft 3 Marco Van Basten attacking everything that comes into the box vs the 5 ft 10 Santamaria and 5 ft 11 Ronald Koeman. It's absolutely screaming out as a mismatch.

Koeman wasnt a great defender at the best of times - He's nowhere near up to the task physically to deal with Van Basten.

Not just in the air but on the ground as well, Van Basten was extremely agile for such a tall striker - whereas Koeman was notoriously slow and immobile.

We're not talking about any striker here - Van Basten is literally quicker, stronger, more agile, more technical - And Koeman really isn't up to it.


“Injuries cut him down when he was in the best form of his career, spearheading Fabio Capello’s new and rejuvenated Milan side. Yet by then, Marco had already done enough to perhaps be regarded as the greatest number nine there’s ever been.”
Ronald Koeman

“He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists.”
Marcel Desailly

“Marco was the greatest centre forward that I’ve ever trained. Marco remains the greatest in his role. It was such a shame that he was forced to retire at 28. It was a mortal misfortune for him, for football, and for Milan.”
Fabio Capello