Suppose it still wouldn't matter. Someone decide this, please.
Billy No Mates Draft: SF - Joga/Gio vs Invictus/Theon
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
Let's look at the sheer pedigree of our team on show here and most importantly how they fit tactically.
The side strikes a great balance tactically and is brimming with quality. Scirea is only behind Beckenbauer as a libero; Facchetti is the greatest with Nilton as a LWB; Krol the ultimate LCB after one Maldini; Thuram arguably the greatest in his RCB role; Gerets tenacity and dynamism is perfect for the RWB role; Breitner a top 3-5 B2B midfielder; Rijkaard widely regarded as the greatest DM ever and is tailor made for the midfield duo; Maradona the greatest playmaker ever and arguably the #1 of all time; Stoichkov a top notch wing-forward who is perfect for the 3-5-2; Puskas a top 10 great and a match made in heaven for this role in our forward trident.
That's a defense which has won just about everything there is to win and in Facchetti, Krol, Thuram we have players who have finished in the podium of the ballon d'Or, won the world cup bronze ball and including Scirea and Gerets in there we have captains of WC and European Cup winning teams.
Have the opposition managed to attain the same balance we have without compromising on quality? Not really imo. That off balance opposition's midfield heavily compromises how they deal with Maradona and Rijkaard-Breitner, in addition to not exactly providing the great base for their extremely top heavy attack to thrive in.
For all the talk of Invictus/Theon's attack, who exactly is going to stop Maradona strutting his stuff here? Or Breitner-Rijkaard for that matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=w21dkqtBwXk
The likes of Platini, van Basten, Ronaldo, Messi are well marshalled here by their defensive counterparts. Messi in the zone patrolled by Facchetti-Krol, Ronaldo up against his perfect match in Thuram, van Basten squaring up against a Scirea marshalled defense and of course Platini having to contend with Rijkaard. Can the same be said of Maradona against Sammer-Redondo or Breitner and Rijkaard too for that matter. Stoichkov who will face Briegel one on one more often than not with a forward line doing zilch to help the defense or tracking back for that matter?
The side strikes a great balance tactically and is brimming with quality. Scirea is only behind Beckenbauer as a libero; Facchetti is the greatest with Nilton as a LWB; Krol the ultimate LCB after one Maldini; Thuram arguably the greatest in his RCB role; Gerets tenacity and dynamism is perfect for the RWB role; Breitner a top 3-5 B2B midfielder; Rijkaard widely regarded as the greatest DM ever and is tailor made for the midfield duo; Maradona the greatest playmaker ever and arguably the #1 of all time; Stoichkov a top notch wing-forward who is perfect for the 3-5-2; Puskas a top 10 great and a match made in heaven for this role in our forward trident.
That's a defense which has won just about everything there is to win and in Facchetti, Krol, Thuram we have players who have finished in the podium of the ballon d'Or, won the world cup bronze ball and including Scirea and Gerets in there we have captains of WC and European Cup winning teams.
Have the opposition managed to attain the same balance we have without compromising on quality? Not really imo. That off balance opposition's midfield heavily compromises how they deal with Maradona and Rijkaard-Breitner, in addition to not exactly providing the great base for their extremely top heavy attack to thrive in.
For all the talk of Invictus/Theon's attack, who exactly is going to stop Maradona strutting his stuff here? Or Breitner-Rijkaard for that matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=w21dkqtBwXk
The likes of Platini, van Basten, Ronaldo, Messi are well marshalled here by their defensive counterparts. Messi in the zone patrolled by Facchetti-Krol, Ronaldo up against his perfect match in Thuram, van Basten squaring up against a Scirea marshalled defense and of course Platini having to contend with Rijkaard. Can the same be said of Maradona against Sammer-Redondo or Breitner and Rijkaard too for that matter. Stoichkov who will face Briegel one on one more often than not with a forward line doing zilch to help the defense or tracking back for that matter?
If it boils down to a Maradona v Messi contest, it is pretty clear which is more likely to decide the game here. Irrespective of how you rate the pair, Maradona has a crucial advantage for two reasons. First because he has a better platform to influence the game with the bedrock and midfield control yielded by Rijkaard and Breitner, whereas the supply line of Messi in Platini is strangled by that same control and tight grip Rijkaard will hold. Secondly because Maradona faces a pair of midfielders in Sammer and Redondo neither suited to the job of stopping him. The same cannot be said of Messi's battle with Facchetti and Krol.
That's what will make the difference.
That's what will make the difference.
All the narrative for the defense can also be used by us. Figueroa is the best pure defender after Baresi. Carlos Alberto is the GOAT rightback. Cannavaro is a Ballon D'Or winning centerback. Neuer is a Ballon D'Or top 3 level goalkeeper.
The oppositions's defensive setup might be good, but just to reiterate - our attack scored a supernatural 1700 goals combined. It will be impossible to hold them to a low score, and we'd bank on our defense to hold the opposition to a lower number given the narrow attack - which is further exacerbated by the greatest modern day sweeper keeper rushing off his line to close down the already jam packed attacking channels:
The spiritual heir to a storied tradition of sweeper keepers - that transcend the role of goalkeepers - from the days of Gyula Grosics, to Lev Yashin, and Peter Schmeichel - Neuer forms the last bank of defense. In a young career, Neuer has already accomplished almost everything there is to - on both the international and club stage.
Footballer of the Year in Germany: 2011, 2014
IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 2013, 2014, 2015
UEFA Best Player in Europe: Runner Up - 2014
World Cup Golden Glove Award: 2014
3rd place in the Ballon D'Or - 2014
The oppositions's defensive setup might be good, but just to reiterate - our attack scored a supernatural 1700 goals combined. It will be impossible to hold them to a low score, and we'd bank on our defense to hold the opposition to a lower number given the narrow attack - which is further exacerbated by the greatest modern day sweeper keeper rushing off his line to close down the already jam packed attacking channels:
Manuel Neuer
The spiritual heir to a storied tradition of sweeper keepers - that transcend the role of goalkeepers - from the days of Gyula Grosics, to Lev Yashin, and Peter Schmeichel - Neuer forms the last bank of defense. In a young career, Neuer has already accomplished almost everything there is to - on both the international and club stage.
Footballer of the Year in Germany: 2011, 2014
IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 2013, 2014, 2015
UEFA Best Player in Europe: Runner Up - 2014
World Cup Golden Glove Award: 2014
3rd place in the Ballon D'Or - 2014
Just an inkling of what kind of damage Maradona can cause against a medium-high line, with a sweeper keeper.
Keep in mind that this is against a team featuring the greatest DM ever in Rijkaard, one of the greatest centre backs ever in Baresi and of course one feckin Paolo Maldini, and YET he still takes them to the dishwasher.
And just what do we have here? Sammer in an ill-suited role which just about everyone has pointed out and Redondo-Platini who quite simply aren't up to the task of stopping Maradona who has Breitner and Rijkaard in support for good measure. Is there a more favourable match-up anywhere else on the pitch or a more questionable department than the opposition's midfield and their overall dynamics as a result of it?
This game 
Both managers were stuck on repeat, posting the same stuff and videos.
Both managers were stuck on repeat, posting the same stuff and videos.This game
I was on my phone for most of the last 3 hours and couldn't get anything up. Had to resort to copy pasting stuff from here and there, and even then the bloody phone kept on showing the error page when I tried to post.
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TBH, I downed tools yesterday itself (go through an existential crisis in every draft without fail, and become a bit of a cnut too - for some inexplicable reason), but Theon was brilliant - just stayed calm, kept plugging, and didn't give up - so all credit to him for making it a close affair down the stretch. Anyway, good luck in the final. @Tuppet too. Should be a cracker!The Maradona problem (as I see it) in the draft context:
It's not that Maradona is individualistic in a detrimental sense. He's very much a team player for my money. One of his greatest strengths is actually that he knows how to involve a supporting cast – in a way that even enhances that cast in a “greater than the sum” sense. In that regard he's better than most – better than Messi, to make the most obvious comparison.
The problem is that – for me – he has to be the focal point of what's going on to a greater extent than any other GOAT we regularly see in these drafts. When you get beyond a certain level (in terms of individual quality) it becomes a question of getting the balance of his supporting cast just right – which is incredibly difficult.
To me, you need to build a team around Maradona comprised of undeniable world beaters who won't get in his way – who won't interfere with his role as the orchestrator and unquestionable focal point. With Pelé or Messi (or Cruyff, or Di Stefano), this is less of a problem. It is much easier to upgrade the attacking force surrounding these players: With Maradona doing the latter is a matter of (delicate) equilibrium to a different – and much more troublesome – extent.
Never got around to voting here, but I would've gone with Joga. However, it'll be very interesting to see who they go for as reinforcements. I think they probably have to “upgrade” Puskas.
Problem (if you buy my take on Maradona in the draft context):
You need – say - a GOAT version of Valdano. Not a GOAT to lead the line (that's easy), but a GOAT who can perform a Valdano style role as part of what is essentially a supporting cast for Maradona. That sums up the trickiness here. Puskas is half plausible – he sort of works. But not entirely – not if we're talking perfection. And it has to be perfection, arguably, in the final of an all-time draft.
It's not that Maradona is individualistic in a detrimental sense. He's very much a team player for my money. One of his greatest strengths is actually that he knows how to involve a supporting cast – in a way that even enhances that cast in a “greater than the sum” sense. In that regard he's better than most – better than Messi, to make the most obvious comparison.
The problem is that – for me – he has to be the focal point of what's going on to a greater extent than any other GOAT we regularly see in these drafts. When you get beyond a certain level (in terms of individual quality) it becomes a question of getting the balance of his supporting cast just right – which is incredibly difficult.
To me, you need to build a team around Maradona comprised of undeniable world beaters who won't get in his way – who won't interfere with his role as the orchestrator and unquestionable focal point. With Pelé or Messi (or Cruyff, or Di Stefano), this is less of a problem. It is much easier to upgrade the attacking force surrounding these players: With Maradona doing the latter is a matter of (delicate) equilibrium to a different – and much more troublesome – extent.
Never got around to voting here, but I would've gone with Joga. However, it'll be very interesting to see who they go for as reinforcements. I think they probably have to “upgrade” Puskas.
Problem (if you buy my take on Maradona in the draft context):
You need – say - a GOAT version of Valdano. Not a GOAT to lead the line (that's easy), but a GOAT who can perform a Valdano style role as part of what is essentially a supporting cast for Maradona. That sums up the trickiness here. Puskas is half plausible – he sort of works. But not entirely – not if we're talking perfection. And it has to be perfection, arguably, in the final of an all-time draft.