Bringing on a Milner to preserve a lead...

[Raees]

I don't see the logic in it. Surely if you want to preserve a lead, you want workrate - yes, but you want players who are comfortable with the ball so that you can keep the ball better in the face of increasing pressure from the opponent trying to get back into the game and also with the opponent pushing forward you'd put yourself in a good position to expose their high backline.

I have seen England always get defensive and look poorer for it. Secondly if you are trying to preserve a lead why always kick long from goal kicks.. surely better to pass short and retain the ball, kill off time.

Thoughts?

 

[Jacob]

My thought is that Milner is such an unglamorous player. It's a buzz kill so see him play, let alone hear his name.

 

[tvoLAD]

On the second point, its not as easy as trying to play from goalkick. When the opponent is pressing your backline, and if your defenders are not Barcaesque its easy to get flustered and start running into dead ends and loosing the ball. A simple square pass at the back can be disastrous if intercepted. Long balls atleas give your team a fighting chance to stop the ball from coming back quickly, unless your forwards are useless

 

[izec]

Sums Roy up. Absolute the shittest sub of the tournament probably. Wrong player and wrong idea. It showed in the end. Van Gaal did some baffling subs too which cost us in the end, i dont get it. You have players like Vardy, Rashford and Sturridge on the bench, who could keep the ball and push the Russians back with their pace and you bring on Milner to do feck all

 

[Kostur]

He hoped to bore Russians to death.

 

[Raees]

On the second point, its not as easy as trying to play from goalkick. When the opponent is pressing your backline, and if your defenders are not Barcaesque its easy to get flustered and start running into dead ends and loosing the ball. A simple square pass at the back can be disastrous if intercepted. Long balls atleas give your team a fighting chance to stop the ball from coming back quickly, unless your forwards are useless

I agree just saying if they do expect your defence to go long with goal kick and give you the space, kick it short.. get a few passes off and then go keeper again to hit it long if need be. It could kill off another extra 20 seconds.

 

[esmufc07]

I don't see the logic in it. Surely if you want to preserve a lead, you want workrate - yes, but you want players who are comfortable with the ball so that you can keep the ball better in the face of increasing pressure from the opponent trying to get back into the game and also with the opponent pushing forward you'd put yourself in a good position to expose their high backline.

I have seen England always get defensive and look poorer for it. Secondly if you are trying to preserve a lead why always kick long from goal kicks.. surely better to pass short and retain the ball, kill off time.

Thoughts?

I think the one thing Milner will give you is work-rate. Not much else, mind.

Taking Sterling off and replacing him with Milner though meant we had very little pace in the team and we gradually got deeper and deeper. Why Vardy didn't come on I don't know. His pace would have caused the Russian's problems while they were pushing forward for an equaliser. We had no-one to stretch the game.

As to your point about going long with goal kicks I agree, no idea why. Perhaps you learn something about it when you take your badges.

 

[Van Gaalacticos]

Awful substitution. My theory on Milner is he won't win you a game but might lose you one. Might have been wiser to get Vardy on the pitch considering he has been successfully chasing down long balls all season.

What the feck does Milner add to the team?? I'd swap him for Townsend or Ashley Young in a heartbeat.

 

[GloryHunter07]

I don't see the logic in it. Surely if you want to preserve a lead, you want workrate - yes, but you want players who are comfortable with the ball so that you can keep the ball better in the face of increasing pressure from the opponent trying to get back into the game and also with the opponent pushing forward you'd put yourself in a good position to expose their high backline.

I have seen England always get defensive and look poorer for it. Secondly if you are trying to preserve a lead why always kick long from goal kicks.. surely better to pass short and retain the ball, kill off time.

Thoughts?

We were crying out for another pacy player to replace Sterling and kill the game off. Hodgson went conservative and got burnt.

 

[Duafc]

More than who the substitution was I think it was just unnecessary. Often in those situations I feel the team that has been out grafting for 70 odd minutes needs to be trusted, they are focused and doing the job already.

If someone is gassed, on a yellow or playing so poorly they are a liability then change it.

I just think given the natural momentum swing that is guaranteed to happen in the last 10 mins, you have to be dead sure the person your putting in has the mental cajones to sure things up.

Sub should have been earlier and a forward who would be an outlet, if it needed to be made at all.

 

[Nighteyes]

It's a standard sub that I could see most managers (Including our very own Mourinho) making when protective a lead. Perhaps a bit unnecessary but hardly terrible. England certainly didn't draw because of that at any rate.

 

[skidmark]

Awful substitution. My theory on Milner is he won't win you a game but might lose you one. Might have been wiser to get Vardy on the pitch considering he has been successfully chasing down long balls all season.

What the feck does Milner add to the team?? I'd swap him for Townsend or Ashley Young in a heartbeat.

I think it's a real shame Townsend was dropped from the squad - he was a bright light for Newcastle; always available as a fast outlet for the ball (so also keeps opposition defenders occupied even off the ball), composed on the ball, able to cross and to cut inside, could beat a man 1 on 1, and tracked back defensively. I guess what Milner brings is versatility, and you do need those sorts of players in a squad to cover emergencies, but I think Townsend was very unlucky not to get a place.

 

[Kostur]

It's a standard sub that I could see most managers (Including our very own Mourinho) making when protective a lead. Perhaps a bit unnecessary but hardly terrible. England certainly didn't draw because of that at any rate.

Agree on that. It was a stupid sub, no doubt, but it wasn't the problem really. Should've fecked off Kane earlier, probably Alli too, both been rubbish yesterday in truth, Sterling should've gone too and Chavrdy/Shitdanceridge or OBE Lord Marcus Rashford should've come on to kill them on the counter.

Count the counters fecked up by Sterling yesterday when you guys were going 2v1 and you get the culprit imo.

 

[Raees]

It's a standard sub that I could see most managers (Including our very own Mourinho) making when protective a lead. Perhaps a bit unnecessary but hardly terrible. England certainly didn't draw because of that at any rate.

Thats the point of the thread. Why is it a standard sub especially in English football when logically all it does is invite more pressure from the opposition.

Its not the only reason we drew but its something I've noticed for ages especially with Milner and I've never got it.. it invariably makes the defending team worse.

 

[Nighteyes]

Thats the point of the thread. Why is it a standard sub especially in English football when logically all it does is invite more pressure from the opposition.

Its not the only reason we drew but its something I've noticed for ages especially with Milner and I've never got it.. it invariably makes the defending team worse.

Oh come off it. It's got nothing to do with English football.

Manager taking off defensively suspect winger for a more industrious winger to see of the game. This happens literally everywhere. The sub had nothing to do with the result. Not many managers would bring on Vardy or Sturridge, a striker to play as a left winger, to see out a game.

 

[MV12]

Milner has not much to offer in many circumstances, let alone in a match like last nights when you need calmness and a high level of ball control..
Roy is well over the hill, and it showed in both his team selection and substitutions..
It's not like we don't have pace in the side and to opt for Milner was just asking for trouble.

But, really our undoing last night was the dreadful finishing in front of goal.. We should have been well and truely out of sight and crusing by the 80th minute, not hanging on desperately to a slender 1 goal lead.

I fear we will pay dearly for our inability to hit the back of the net.

Oh and while I'm on it... What the feck is Harry Kane doing taking bloody corners? The mind boggles!

 

[Lurpak99]

Most teams get one last chance in a football match, usually because the leading team just wants to hold on to the lead while the team who's behind throws everybody forward, and sometimes a late goal is scored. Russia didn't put England under any pressure yesterday, they didn't look like scoring at any point until suddenly Berezutski was 1v1 with Rose at the backpost. It's actually just very unfortunate that it ended like this, but as usual the England manager and the whole team have to be slaughtered for something that could've happened to any team.

 

[Van Gaalacticos]

Milner has not much to offer in many circumstances, let alone in a match like last nights when you need calmness and a high level of ball control..
Roy is well over the hill, and it showed in both his team selection and substitutions..
It's not like we don't have pace in the side and to opt for Milner was just asking for trouble.

But, really our undoing last night was the dreadful finishing in front of goal.. We should have been well and truely out of sight and crusing by the 80th minute, not hanging on desperately to a slender 1 goal lead.

I fear we will pay dearly for our inability to hit the back of the net.

Oh and while I'm on it... What the feck is Harry Kane doing taking bloody corners? The mind boggles!

Well Phil Jones isn't in the squad is he?

I agree though...what a joke!

 

[Raees]

Oh come off it. It's got nothing to do with English football.

Manager taking off defensively suspect winger for a more industrious winger to see of the game. This happens literally everywhere. The sub had nothing to do with the result. Not many managers would bring on Vardy or Sturridge, a striker to play as a left winger, to see out a game.

Industrious winger like Willian.. yes because he can carry the ball, keep possession well and track back I mean bringing on supposed workhorses who offer nothing in possession and can't carry the ball.

Someone like Townsend would put a shift in going backwards. but has enough about him to stretch the opposition. Guys like Young (as he has aged) or Milner who can't beat men 1 v 1 and take the opposition on with a lung busting run, I find it tactically bizarre.

Sterling was tracking back and giving his full back protection. Bringing on Sturridge out wide.. yes I wouldn't do that because he would not provide balance but not all widemen are Cristiano Ronaldos with zero defensive desire. You don't need a defensive winger like a Milner or Kuyt to hold a lead imo. It just is asking for trouble as you will concede possession more often than not.

 

[CallyRed]

My two cents
Should have taken off Stirling for Wilshere , Lallana for Vardy. Both weren't very good In the second half. Vardy on the right, move Kane to the left. Should have tried to stretch the play more. With Wilshere and Rooney sitting front of Dier,
Could have even brought Sturridge or rashford on for Alli towards the end.

 

[Nighteyes]

Most teams get one last chance in a football match, usually because the leading team just wants to hold on to the lead while the team who's behind throws everybody forward, and sometimes a late goal is scored. Russia didn't put England under any pressure yesterday, they didn't look like scoring at any point until suddenly Berezutski was 1v1 with Rose at the backpost. It's actually just very unfortunate that it ended like this, but as usual the England manager and the whole team have to be slaughtered for something that could've happened to any team.

So true. English fans just love the blame game. Or maybe it's just the ones on here.

 

[izec]

Most teams get one last chance in a football match, usually because the leading team just wants to hold on to the lead while the team who's behind throws everybody forward, and sometimes a late goal is scored. Russia didn't put England under any pressure yesterday, they didn't look like scoring at any point until suddenly Berezutski was 1v1 with Rose at the backpost. It's actually just very unfortunate that it ended like this, but as usual the England manager and the whole team have to be slaughtered for something that could've happened to any team.

Or maybe you know, dont hang on to a 1-0 lead after dominating the game? It was a fitting end, it symbolized the incompetence of Hodgson. Not even using his third sub....

Questions have to be asked. THey are now under huge pressure against Wales, how can it be brushed under the carpet every 2 years?

 

[Van Gaalacticos]

Why did we even need to make those changes...we were playing really well for the majority of the game, If anything I would have brought off Kane who had been ineffective for a different type of forward be it Vardy, Sturridge or Rashford. We had been holding the Russians off perfectly well with the team we started.

 

[Nighteyes]

Industrious winger like Willian.. yes because he can carry the ball, keep possession well and track back I mean bringing on supposed workhorses who offer nothing in possession and can't carry the ball.

Someone like Townsend would put a shift in going backwards. but has enough about him to stretch the opposition. Guys like Young (as he has aged) or Milner who can't beat men 1 v 1 and take the opposition on with a lung busting run, I find it tactically bizarre.

Sterling was tracking back and giving his full back protection. Bringing on Sturridge out wide.. yes I wouldn't do that because he would not provide balance but not all widemen are Cristiano Ronaldos with zero defensive desire. You don't need a defensive winger like a Milner or Kuyt to hold a lead imo. It just is asking for trouble as you will concede possession more often than not.

Maybe Sterling was tired? Given the way his performance dropped in the 2nd half and the numerous counter attacks he fecked up by tripping over the ball and giving it away needlessly that seems to be likely. Townsend is shite.

Not even sure why this is even contentious. England were comfortable and in complete control even after the sub. Russia scored a very good goal. Shit happens.

 

[Moonred]

Rubbish. England manager should be slaughtered because he failed to get a win against a poor poor Russian team after dominating most parts. It's hardly unfortunate. Countless number of times it has been shown that is if you don't kill the game off, it bites you back. Happened to us many times last season. His lack of appetite for a change in the second half and being a timid manager has cost England. Hardly anything controversial.

 

[Matteh]

Watched the game at my brother in law's house with my Dad and we all said the same thing a lot of people have mentioned in here.

Russia were there for the taking and weak against pace and counter (I think their CB pair are 35ish?) And 1-0 is never enough just in case of a mistake like the equaliser.

Vardy, Sturridge, Rashford or even Barkley would have been a better shout for the style of game we needed to play.

 

[Lurpak99]

Or maybe you know, dont hang on to a 1-0 lead after dominating the game? It was a fitting end, it symbolized the incompetence of Hodgson. Not even using his third sub....

Questions have to be asked. THey are now under huge pressure against Wales, how can it be brushed under the carpet every 2 years?

England weren't holding on the lead at any point, yes they didn't throw men forward with a 1-0 lead in the 89th minute, but who does? Russia didn't trouble England until that very last chance, it wasn't 10-15 minutes of pressure paying off, it was barely a minutes pressure, it was 1 chance, 1 goal.

 

[JustFootballFan]

Sums Roy up. Absolute the shittest sub of the tournament probably. Wrong player and wrong idea. It showed in the end. Van Gaal did some baffling subs too which cost us in the end, i dont get it. You have players like Vardy, Rashford and Sturridge on the bench, who could keep the ball and push the Russians back with their pace and you bring on Milner to do feck all

Yeah I didn´t get that either. Even as a supporter of Milner, why not bring on somebody fast that can hold the ball and put the game away on a counterattack. That was the perfect time for Vardy or Rashford. Typical old men coaching. Bring on muscle to defend lead. When you have the lead the easiest way to win is to keep the ball or/and score another. Not to voluntarily concede possession and field position.

 

[JustFootballFan]

My two cents
Should have taken off Stirling for Wilshere , Lallana for Vardy. Both weren't very good In the second half. Vardy on the right, move Kane to the left. Should have tried to stretch the play more. With Wilshere and Rooney sitting front of Dier,
Could have even brought Sturridge or rashford on for Alli towards the end.

Kane was the worst of the whole bunch.

 

[paulscholes18]

Vardy should have came on instead, he brings pace & work rate unlike Milner who just runs around like a headless chicken

 

[Raees]

Maybe Sterling was tired? Given the way his performance dropped in the 2nd half and the numerous counter attacks he fecked up by tripping over the ball and giving it away needlessly that seems to be likely. Townsend is shite.

Not even sure why this is even contentious. England were comfortable and in complete control even after the sub. Russia scored a very good goal. Shit happens.

We will agree to disagree.

 

[2 man midfield]

Bringing on Milner to do anything is already a misstep. I can kind of see the logic, but at the same time it's the worst decision Roy has ever made.

 

[Mr Smith]

Wasn't as big a mistake as taking Rooney off in my book. You don't take off your captain and most experienced player when a young, inexperienced team is trying to protect a 1 goal lead.

Agree that the Milner substitution was thoroughly unimaginative.

 

[RedRover]

It's amazing to see all the armchair coaches putting the boot in.

England were much the better side and on another day would have been three of four up. The system, and selection - heavily criticised by a lot of people on Twitter (and on my Facebook feed at least) produced open, attacking possession football, which is surely what we want to see.

The defence had a lapse, Russia scored - it happens. Milner is a go too player for Roy and while in hindsight you might say it was a mistake, we were still comfortable after the sub. Unless the suggestion is Milner was at fault for the goal I don't see the fuss.

Seems to me some people just like to criticise - before, during and after the game.

 

[2 man midfield]

Wasn't as big a mistake as taking Rooney off in my book. You don't take off your captain and most experienced player when a young, inexperienced team is trying to protect a 1 goal lead.

Agree that the Milner substitution was thoroughly unimaginative.

I agree, but with that many Spurs players in the side, a bottle job was kind of inevitable.

 

[Crustanoid]

Woy is an utter twonk and really shouldn't have any business being England manager - he's like the default selection because we couldn't get anyone else.

The loss of points is entirely on his head

 

[Acole9]

Hodgson's substitutions last night could eventually cost him his job. He's done well to bring the young players through but lets be honest that could've and would've been done with any other manager in charge of the team.

 

[RedRover]

Hodgson's substitutions last night could eventually cost him his job. He's done well to bring the young players through but lets be honest that could've and would've been done with any other manager in charge of the team.

Let's actually be honest - that performance last night was very good and for the first time in years we're actually playing some good football.

And the last part is pure speculation.

I don't particular have any opinions about Roy, but it looks like he might be serving up better football than most England managers have in recent memory. Credit where it's due.

 

[Mr Smith]

Let's actually be honest - that performance last night was very good and for the first time in years we're actually playing some good football.

And the last part is pure speculation.

I don't particular have any opinions about Roy, but it looks like he might be serving up better football than most England managers have in recent memory. Credit where it's due.

Agree with this. For all that they didn't round things off, the football he got them playing was pretty excellent. Honestly it's going to be difficult to give a proper assessment of where the team, and Hogson, is at before we see them play against a few different kind of teams in this tournament. A bit early to be taking out the knives in any case.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Typical Roy move. Cowardly.

Russia were really poor, we should have taken the game to them and put in Rashford or Vardy. Architect of his own demise.

We aren't going far in this tournament with this negative attitude.