British+Irish draft - Lynk vs Skizzo/Pat (Group C)

[crappycraperson]

----------------------------Team Lynk --------------------------------------------vs--------------------------------------Team Skizzo/Pat

Lynk's Tactics -

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Style of play:
Aggressive possession based football akin to Atletico Madrid 13-14. High intensity pressing and quality up front. A forward line with pace capable of clinical counter attacks

Team Strengths:
1. I have leaders in Keane, Jennings, Terry, Carey & Meredith. These men are big game performers capable of instilling confidence regardless of the situation.
2. Absolutely solid spine. Two of the best defenders of the Premier League Era protected by Roy Keane, with Jennings in goal.
3. Quality wingers. Meredith operates as a inverted winger ala Robben, he is left footed and his peak goal return was fantastic. Waddle is a classic winger with pace and creavity.
4. Flexible front line. Meredith and Waddle could play anywhere across the front 4. Ivor Allchurch was a deep lying forward capable of playing as a 9 or a 10.
5. A midfield capable of ball retention and ball recovery. Keane was one of the greatest midfielders of all time, his metronomic passing often went unpraised.
6. Solid fullbacks. Jackie Carey is arguably the greatest Irish left back of all time and Viv Anderson was a member of cloughs European Cup winning Forrest side.

Strengths over my opponent:
1. Keane and Barry are a stonger midfield pair than Lampard and Ince. Lampard could never dictate play and Ince was a lesser player than Keane.
2. Beckhams crossing would be negated by my center halves being superior in the air
3. Neville would struggle with Waddle and similarly Dunne with Meredith.

Game prediction:
My midfield would mean my side would have more possession. Both sides have strong defenses. I could see it being a tight game, but my players have stronger Mustar leadership and I believe they would edge it.

Skizzo/Pat Mustard's tactics-

We’ve drafted exclusively from players who peaked in the post-1955 period following the advent of the UEFA club competitions. As a result we’ve assembled a squad with cast-iron credentials and pedigree at an international level. Of our starting XI, we boast no less than 6 European Cup/CL winners, with another on the bench. 10 of our squad have won a European club trophy, and of the others, John Charles is a multiple-time Scudetto winner and Bobby Moore a World Cup-winning captain. We line up in a perfectly balanced 4-4-2 formation, with no obvious weak links.

Defence:

We field one of the all-time great British goalkeepers in Neville Southall. In front of him, Moore and Lawrenson form arguably the best centre-back pairing in the draft. Similar in dynamic to the great Hansen/Lawrenson partnership, Moore commands the defence with his peerless reading of the game, impeccable timing in the tackle and great distribution. Lawrenson complements him with his superb recovery pace and strength in the air. Flanking them are two of Utd’s greatest ever full backs.

Midfield:

The lynchpin of our midfield is “the beating heart of the Lisbon Lions” Bobby Murdoch, one of the very best midfielders in the draft. A combative ball-winner, a wonderful, game-dictating passer and a true leader, he is partnered in central midfield by the fiercely competitive Paul Ince. On the flanks, one of the most unerringly brilliant crossers of the ball ever in David Beckham, and the scintillatingly fast Bobby Lennox, who was putting up almost Ronaldo-esque goalscoring numbers from the wing nearly 40 years before we’d ever heard of Ronaldo.

Attack:

The legendary John Charles is arguably the best centre forward in the draft, with a brilliant goalscoring record, near-unstoppable ability in the air, and the rare distinction of being well-rounded enough to be world-class both as an attacker and a defender. Partnering him is one of the great goalscorers of the Premier League era in Ian Wright.

How The Game Will Be Won:

With all due respect to Lynk, we have the better defence and the greater goal threat. Beckham crossing to Charles is one of the clearest routes to goal that any team in the entire draft can field. While Terry and Adams have the aerial prowess to combat that threat significantly, it can’t be thwarted completely, and their lack of pace will be exploited by Wright and the infield surges of Lennox. With Murdoch and Beckham threading the passes to them, and Charles providing knockdowns and powerful, intelligent approach play, they’ll cause havoc. Its hard to see Lynk's attack asking comparably demanding questions of Moore and Lawrenson.

Assuming he starts in midfield, Gareth Barry will clearly be the weakest player on the pitch, and even the great Roy Keane will struggle to establish any decisive advantage over Ince and Murdoch with Barry partnering him.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Lynk
@Skizzo
@Pat_Mustard

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't think the gap between Ince and Barry is as Pat or Skizzo would like us to think. It is an interesting one with Barry. You ask United supporters, they will tell you that Carrick is on a different tier to him. But in my conversations with other non United supports like those of Spurs, Middlesbrough etc i.e teams who did not even have Barry in their ranks, they pretty much put both of them alongside with not much to choose between either. My own opinion is that Carrick is the better player but as much as we would like to believe. This more due to underrating Barry than overrating Carrick. He was often poor for England but as is almost everyone. He did well for City and was a crucial player for Everton last season as well/

 

[Lynk]

My backline and their collective honours.

Goalkeeper:

Pat Jennings:
It takes a special talent to transcend the North London rivalry. Pat Jennings was a special talent.

The Irish goalkeeper was Tottenham's custodian for 13 years before spending eight years with Arsenal. Others who have crossed the divide tend to be loved and hated in equal measure, but not Jennings. He can expect a warm welcome whether he strolls around White Hart Lane or Emirates Stadium.

The reason is simple. Jennings is one of the finest players ever to pull on a pair of goalkeeping gloves. He won a record 119 caps for Northern Ireland in an international career which spanned 22 years, he played more than 1,000 games at the top level, was named Footballer of the Year in 1973, won five major trophies, received an MBE and an OBE and even scored a goal in the 1967 Charity Shield.
Team Honours:

• 2 FA Cups
• 1 League Cup
• 1 Uefa Cup

Personal Honours:

• PFA Player of the Year: 1976
• 2 x PFA Team Of The Year
• Football Writers Association Footballer of the Year 1973
• Voted 10th Greatest Arsenal Player ever

Right Back:
Vivian Anderson

The first black footballer to represent England in a full international. Played for Clough's amazing forest side, Arsenal and Ferguson's Manchester United. Recieved two PFA Team Of The Year inclusions. Fantastic right back, greatly underrated.

Team Honours:

• 2x PFA Team Of The Year
• 2 European Cups, 1 European Super Cup
• 1 English League Title
• 1 European Cup Winners Cup
• 1 FA Cup
• 3 League Cups

Personal Honours:

• 2x PFA Team Of The Year
• MBE for services to Football

Center Backs:
Tony Adams:

Alcoholic, shit manager, but one of the greatest defenders of all time. ​

Team Honours:

• First Division/Premier League: 1988–89, 1990–91, 1997–98, 2001–02
• FA Cup: 1992–93, 1997–98, 2001–02
• Football League Cup: 1986–87, 1992–93
• FA Community Shield: 1991 (shared), 1998, 1999
• UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1993–94

Personal Honours:

• PFA Young Player of the Year: 1987
• PFA Team of the Year: 1994, 1996, 1997
• Member in The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (MBE): (1999 Birthday Honours)
• Overall Team of the Decade – Premier League 10 Seasons Awards: (1992-93 – 2001-02)
• Fantasy Teams of the 20 Seasons - Premier League 20 Seasons Awards: (1992-93 - 2011-12)

John Terry:

Racist, Adulterist but a fecking good defender. ​

Team Honours

• FA Premier League (3): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2009–10
• FA Cup (5): 1999–00, 2006–07, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2011–12
• Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
• FA Community Shield (2): 2005, 2009
• UEFA Champions League (1): 2011–12
• UEFA Europa League (1): 2012–13

Personal Honours

• PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05
• PFA Team of the Year: 2003–04, 2004–05, 2005–06
• FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006
• FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
• ESM Team of the Year: 2004–05, 2008–09, 2009–10
• UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009[143]
• UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
• Chelsea Player of the Year: 2001, 2006

Johnny Carey

Versatile, played in ten positions including goal. Captain of Manchester United and Ireland. Part of the first team to beat England at Wembley. (Yes, the mighty Maygars weren't the first) ​

Team Honours

• FA Cup (1): 1948
• First Division (1): 1951–52
• FA Charity Shield (1): 1952

Probably need to include some of Ivor Allchurch, most voters wouldn't know of his quality

 

[Lynk]

I don't think the argument about Adams/Terry being slow works. Look at Chelsea this year or Inter in 2010. If the midfield in front of them is stable pace isn't an issue. Murdoch is great, but so is Keane. Ince left United because he wasn't in his class. Oh and my frontline not providing much of a trouble is nonsense. Meredith had a 1 in 3 ratio at Man City, Waddle was a 1 in 4 man at Newcastle, Allchurch a 1 in 2 record at Swansea and the national team. Fowler scored 30 plus goals in his first three seasons. Those are their peak periods.

Waddle, Meredith and Allchurch could all drop deep and flood your midfield. Playing a 4-4-2 is risky. I still maintain my team has Adams, Terry and Keane, 3 of the best captains of the Premier League era. Carey, Allchurch, Meredith and Jennings all lead by example too. My team will hold it's shape.

 

[antohan]

Adams, Terry and Keane, 3 of the best captains of the Premier League era

I wouldn't want to be in that dressing room if you lose this.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I don't think the gap between Ince and Barry is as Pat or Skizzo would like us to think. It is an interesting one with Barry. You ask United supporters, they will tell you that Carrick is on a different tier to him. But in my conversations with other non United supports like those of Spurs, Middlesbrough etc i.e teams who did not even have Barry in their ranks, they pretty much put both of them alongside with not much to choose between either. My own opinion is that Carrick is the better player but as much as we would like to believe. This more due to underrating Barry than overrating Carrick. He was often poor for England but as is almost everyone. He did well for City and was a crucial player for Everton last season as well/

I'd have Ince comfortably above Carrick as well as Barry. He was a much more dynamic and powerful player than either of them, and the best defensively sound midfielder of the Fergie era after Keane and Robson. He wasn't on he same level as Robbo going forward or a consistent passer/playmaker of Keane's calibre, but he was a tremendous box to box midfielder in his own right who could stamp his authority on most matches. He's a great foil for Murdoch, who does have the expansive passing and intelligence to dominate midfields. He'll thrive alongside a player like Ince who has the character, physique and strength in the tackle to do his share of the heavy lifting. I don't see Barry complementing Keane to a similar extent.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Initial thoughts:

- Its a big ask of Allchurch and especially Meredith to place them them in a system calling for Atletico-style "high intensity pressing". Would either of them ever have carried out a similar job?
- We'll be playing quite a direct game anyway, but I don't see much reason for Lynk to assume he'll dominate possession. Our central midfield is as good on the ball as his, Beckham is a great passer, and both our centre backs are quality in possession.
- Neville is arguably our greatest ever right back and Dunne was faster and arguably even better defensively. If they'll struggle with Meredith and Waddle (and I'm not denying that they're good enough to cause problems) then by the same token Anderson will have his work cut out vs Lennox.

 

[crappycraperson]

Barry would play the same role as Butt did for Keane. People while romanticizing about Keane-Scholes circa 99 forget that Butt started as many games alongside Keane as Scholes.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I don't think the argument about Adams/Terry being slow works. Look at Chelsea this year or Inter in 2010. If the midfield in front of them is stable pace isn't an issue. Murdoch is great, but so is Keane. Ince left United because he wasn't in his class. Oh and my frontline not providing much of a trouble is nonsense. Meredith had a 1 in 3 ratio at Man City, Waddle was a 1 in 4 man at Newcastle, Allchurch a 1 in 2 record at Swansea and the national team. Fowler scored 30 plus goals in his first three seasons. Those are their peak periods.

Waddle, Meredith and Allchurch could all drop deep and flood your midfield. Playing a 4-4-2 is risky. I still maintain my team has Adams, Terry and Keane, 3 of the best captains of the Premier League era. Carey, Allchurch, Meredith and Jennings all lead by example too. My team will hold it's shape.

Beckham was brilliant at tucking infield to create an extra man. He'll not allow himself to be marooed out wide if you flood the midfield.

The lack of pace at centre back is an issue unless you're playing a very deep line and/or have an exceptional midfield shield in terms of quality or numbers. Keane has the quality, but its a huge waste if you rein him back from playing his normal box to box role.

 

[harms]

Skizzo/Pat team is just beautiful! Love it.

 

[Skizzo]

Skizzo/Pat team is just beautiful! Love it.

Thank you

I couldn't be around much for the potential start of this, so pat stepped up and did the tactics and write up.

Great job he did too... and he's argued our points and advantages very well. I haven't said much because I don't want this to turn into a 2 v 1 in terms of discussion.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Skizzo/Pat team is just beautiful! Love it.

Thanks mate! Getting Murdoch late on after deciding not to enter a bidding war for Keane, Souness etc was vital for us.

Thank you

I couldn't be around much for the potential start of this, so pat stepped up and did the tactics and write up.

Great job he did too... and he's argued our points and advantages very well. I haven't said much because I don't want this to turn into a 2 v 1 in terms of discussion.

Cheers mate. I'm glad I haven't ballsed it up completely at this stage at least!

 

[Lynk]

Initial thoughts:

- Its a big ask of Allchurch and especially Meredith to place them them in a system calling for Atletico-style "high intensity pressing". Would either of them ever have carried out a similar job?

Have you seen them play? Meredith and Allchurch played in much more physical era. Both men played for a long time with Meredith playing until his 50's. He wouldn't have lasted that long if he didn't have extraordinary stamina.

 

[Lynk]

Also, I'm confused, what's with this dual manager thing?

 

[crappycraperson]

Also, I'm confused, what's with this dual manager thing?

Pat is skizzo's assistant. Only one is allowed to debate you in this thread at a time so don;t worry

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Have you seen them play? Meredith and Allchurch played in much more physical era. Both men played for a long time with Meredith playing until his 50's. He wouldn't have lasted that long if he didn't have extraordinary stamina.

It was more physical in terms of the type of tackling that was allowed but it certainly wasn't as physical in terms of running intensity. There's been a big increase in that regard over the past ten years, never mind the last 100.

http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/newsevents/news/news/index.php?nid=2896

 

[Jammydodger7]

I'm surprised to see the voting so far, whilst I did vote for Skizzo and Pat, It did take a long time to come to a conclussion, longer than the other games, I thought it would be a lot closer.

The CB's and strikers just edge it for me! If Skizzo and Pats team take the lead then Charles could move back into defence giving them an unbreakable defence.

 

[Gio]

Those arrows are a mindfeck. Scoreline's very harsh on Lynk though, there's not much in it.

 

[Lynk]

I'm surprised to see the voting so far, whilst I did vote for Skizzo and Pat, It did take a long time to come to a conclussion, longer than the other games, I thought it would be a lot closer.

The CB's and strikers just edge it for me! If Skizzo and Pats team take the lead then Charles could move back into defence giving them an unbreakable defence.

Those arrows are a mindfeck. Scoreline's very harsh on Lynk though, there's not much in it.

Yeah, probably not enough fans favourites, too many rivals and too many vintage players.

 

[Gio]

Yeah, probably not enough fans favourites, too many rivals and too many vintage players.

John Terry is like a honking fart. Voters just want rid of him as soon as possible. I'd be surprised if he's ever won a game in a Caf draft.

 

[harms]

Yeah, probably not enough fans favourites, too many rivals and too many vintage players.

It's not that there is something wrong about your team or personnel, Skizzo's guys are just too good - Moore and Charles especially makes the difference. The scoreline is harsh.

There is, though, a little issue with your tactics for me - both Terry and Adams were terrific defenders, but they, as you, yourself, stated, are best suited to Chelsea/Inter tactics. But you are playing possession-based football with high intensity pressing. Maybe you would've been better off with them sitting deep, Barry included, and Keane + attacking 4 hitting him on the counter?

 

[Gio]

The main difference here isn't the quality but the complementarity of Neville/Beckham, Ince/Murdoch, Moore/Lawro, Charles/Wright - all lovely partnerships. Whereas Lynk has Adams/Terry, Waddle on the left (good but not great OM Waddle), and Fowler up top in what is likely to be a counter-attacking set-up.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Yeah, probably not enough fans favourites, too many rivals and too many vintage players.

The scorelines do end up appearing ridiculously harsh at times in these games - its generally not that people think it would be a crushing victory to one side, just that most people think one team has a slight advantage.

And the Terry factor is a real phenomenon. Titus Bramble probably has a better win ratio in these draft games!

 

[Annahnomoss]

@Lynk don't be down about it! This was bound to be a difficult draft and you've faced a really tough opponent. I think you're spot on that you've chosen players you rate and fairly so but who are just unfortunately underrated like Fowler/Barry/Terry.

You've really nailed Carey, Meredith, Waddles and Allchurch though who are perfect picks.

 

[Skizzo]

Like said above...dont think the voting indicates people think this would be a landslide victory game...but if everyone just think our team edges it, it can look that way.

As @Gio pointed out, our idea was to try and get enough quality, proven partnerships to gain an edge from it. Ince taking the Auld role to work alongside Murdoch. Moore and Lawrenson complementing each others styles. Charles and Wright an improved version of the big man/little man concept. Becks and Nev speak for themselves.

 

[Skizzo]

@Theon

I know you said you have a large celtic following I your family...wondering your thoughts on Lennox and Murdoch. Not necessarily in relation to the game, but in general also.

 

[Annahnomoss]

@Theon

I know you said you have a large celtic following I your family...wondering your thoughts on Lennox and Murdoch. Not necessarily in relation to the game, but in general also.

And Bobby Collins! I've read that he played his best football in Celtic rather than for Everton/Leeds. He won FWA Player of the year in 64-65 as a 33-34 year old.

 

[antohan]

Not sure whether to vote here or not. I don't like adding misery when a game is settled, but isn't there a possibility that GD is relevant later?