British + Irish draft: Raees vs Annah (Group B)

Who would win assuming all players are at their peak?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

crappycraperson

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----------------------------Team Raees --------------------------------------------vs--------------------------------------Team Annahmoss


Raees Starting Formation :


Raees Tactics:

Formation: 5-4-1 (Diamond)

Style of Play

1. Counter-attack, my wing-backs are primarily defensive rather attacking outlets.. tasked with man-marking the opposing wingers.

2. My LM/RM in addition to the LCB and RCB are going to help double team on those world class wingers and seek to get into good positions once we have the ball.

3. Carter has freedom to roam and support Law, he’s a second striker in this formation and the conductor of this side, he will help feed Law and bring others into play.

4. If Carter is somehow kept out of the game, he can interchange with Law and keep the opposition guessing

5. Quick, incisive, hard as nails… this team is brutal to play against, it Is full of muscular hard-knocks and is Leeds United of the 70’s combined with cattenacio… it is more than happy with a 1-0 and will successfully kick the lumps out of the likes of Best and Matthews.

My weaknesses:

1. Not the most creative of sides as I have benched my two wide-men. The thinking here was if I go toe to toe, my wingers would invariably be compared to his and it isn’t a even contest, so instead I will negate his threat and seek to win ugly.

2. Possible lack of width going forwards… although I have two cracking wing-backs, they are tasked with marking two of the best british widemen ever, so it is going to be rare forays for ward admittedly.. but my team is super intelligent and tactically aware.. if one wing back does take a risk and bombs forward, the defence can shift into a super solid back 4 with ease and prevent danger on the counter attack.

Opponents Strengths

1. All time great width… tremendous wizardry on the wings, but I have the right players to stop them in their tracks.

2. World class midfield… Collins and Blanchflower, great mixture of brawns and brain.. but my midfield matches that level of brain in Carter but surpasses it in terms of brawn as I have Ball, Bremner and Mackay.

My strengths

1. Rock solid Defence

2. World class hard as nails midfield that can run a game too

3. World class wing back/full backs

4. Possibly the best number 10/9 combo in the draft.. both legendary players with bags of flair and goal-getting ability.
Annah's tactics:

 
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Lynk

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Jesus, this is a hard one to call. Annah's forward line is fantastic, but Raees midfield and defense are solid as feck. I think Raees team would keep the ball more but the strength on Annah's wings mean he'd be vulnerable to counter attack. I'm gonna think on this for a bit.
 
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Jammydodger7

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Jesus, this is a hard one to call. Annah's forward line is fantastic, but Raees midfield and defense are solid as feck. I think Raees team would keep the ball more but the strength on Annah's wings mean he'd be vulnerable to counter attack. I'm gonna think on this for a bit.
Yea I finding it hard to pick here!
 

sajeev

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@Raees & @Annahnomoss so how do you think this game would develop? Raees has given a fair idea, I am not sure how Annah thinks this game will go
 

harms

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at his peak was there a more complete CB than Sol Campbell?
It's no surprise that this particular draft is all about overhyping your players, due to a relatively unfamiliar pool, but this is too much, really!

This is closer than I expected, but I just can't see Annah's guys not scoring, even with uber-defensive approach, Reaney being the Bestie's kryptonite and Hapgood being the best left-back in the draft. On the other side, Raees' attack just doesn't convince me. So, 1:0 after a genius move by Georgie - who isn't going to play against Reaney, but roaming all-over, that's a nice touch by Annah. Close call though.
 

Annahnomoss

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@Raees & @Annahnomoss so how do you
think this game would develop? Raees has given a fair idea, I am not sure how Annah thinks this game will go
It's no surprise that this particular draft is all about overhyping your players, due to a relatively unfamiliar pool, but this is too much, really!

This is closer than I expected, but I just can't see Annah's guys not scoring, even with uber-defensive approach, Reaney being the Bestie's kryptonite and Hapgood being the best left-back in the draft. On the other side, Raees' attack just doesn't convince me. So, 1:0 after a genius move by Georgie - who isn't going to play against Reaney, but roaming all-over, that's a nice touch by Annah. Close call though.
Hapgood is a "left full back" as in a LCB in a defensive three, in a WM(3-2-2-3) formation under Chapman when most teams used just two central defenders - then called full backs.

I think that is quite a severe mistake to make and it will affect his entire tactics that he plays a left centre back as a wing back.

Overall I believe he will have more possession - which means that the obvious link of Blanchflowers brilliant long passes will find Best or Matthews far too often as one of them drops down to receive a ball on the counter. My defense is very strong centrally with my three man defense and he plays in to my hands with a central attacking team.

The two best players on the pitch are Stanley Matthews and George Best who both have a claim to be the best ever in this draft with Charlton. They will in my eyes comfortably create more chances and perfectly suited to break down an organized defense with their dribbling.

Hapgood surely won't provide width of the needed quality as a wing back when he was a LCB rather and on the other side Sansom will keep up with Reaney easily. That means Best can try to find space for the counter all across the front while Stanley was a hard worker defensively and will work hard on his right side, slightly centrally with Mortensen defending centrally as well.

Similar set up to Real Madrid offensively, Ronaldo/Best is the most offensive while the central player takes more responsibility in the defense. Mortensen often played as a second striker so he'll be comfortable doing slightly more defensive work and he was overall a hard worker too.

My attack is focused on the wings and his defense is strongest centrally. My defense is focused centrally and that is where he is attacking.
 
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Joga Bonito

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my wing-backs are primarily defensive rather attacking outlets.
Tbf he did say they were going to be rather defensive and I guess it would be like playing a CB at LB akin to Gentile? Except without Cabrini on the other side to provide width. Raees has acknowledged this himself and said he lacks width on the offensive front with the primary intent of stifling your 2 wingers.

His attack is too centrally oriented but he does have a terrific attack and a top notch midfield which has the forcefulness and creativity.

Annah on the other hand simply has the best, paciest and most fluid forward trio in this draft. Mortenson is the perfect foil for Matthews and Best, with his work rate, ability to drop deep and link up. Similar to the Benzema role you aptly described him as but only way faster and more prolific.

With Blanchflower pulling the strings and a great central defense against Raees's centrally oriented attack it makes me lean towards Annah team a bit. Make no mistake, I absolutely love Raees team and his midfield is just :drool:with Carter playmaking for Law is just fantastic. Just think its a bit too defensive and he only has a predictable central route which Annah's team is equipped to handle.

Tbf to him his defense will do a great job at stifling Annahs attack but I can see them sneaking a goal in the course of 90 mins but Raees might not have enough routes to score a goal imo.

Will see this play out for now
 

Annahnomoss

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Cheers @Joga Bonito had missed that, very true. Even though I still think it is odd to use a LCB as a wing back. I don't think sitting deep is the way to beat Best and Matthews, they'd both thrive getting to challenge the full back over and over through out the game.

Matthews had the ability to beat the best full backs in history consistently through a game and even dominate them.
Video

Maybe the best LB in history - the 30-year-old Santos found himself confronted by Stanley Matthews , recalled to the England team at the age of 41. Santos, who later professed immense admiration for Matthews, could make nothing of him that afternoon. England won 4-2, but even that score flattered Brazil. Matthews was one of the few wingers ever to embarrass Santos.

"It was to be an experience for Nilton Santos (nutmegged above left). Though Brazil exhibited their flamboyance, Matthews shredded his opponent's reputation: enticing him to within kneecap range like a matador, leaving him in a heap, having lunged off-balance for a vanished ball.

The maestro's touch led to each of England's goals, Brazil having drawn level soon after half-time after going two down early in the game. As Didi reflected: "The play of Matthews was an exhibition of his genius – an extraordinary player in the same class as Garrincha. I never thought a player that age could do what he did."

How would George Best influence the game?
 
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antohan

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Tight, but I'll go for goals here, not that Law didn't have them...
 

Joga Bonito

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Maybe Cliff Jones could be brought on for Carter in a final third roaming role behind Law? Carter was a creative genius and had the goals in him but with a great passing, driving midfield and a top notch goalscorer I don't think he's that vital to this set up.

Would have seen him thrive in a set up with wingers but this set up screams for Jones almost like in a Robben role to provide the incisive pace and trickery.
 

Annahnomoss

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Tbf he did say they were going to be rather defensive and I guess it would be like playing a CB at LB akin to Gentile? Except without Cabrini on the other side to provide width. Raees has acknowledged this himself and said he lacks width on the offensive front with the primary intent of stifling your 2 wingers.

His attack is too centrally oriented but he does have a terrific attack and a top notch midfield which has the forcefulness and creativity.

Annah on the other hand simply has the best, paciest and most fluid forward trio in this draft. Mortenson is the perfect foil for Matthews and Best, with his work rate, ability to drop deep and link up. Similar to the Benzema role you aptly described him as but only way faster and more prolific.

With Blanchflower pulling the strings and a great central defense against Raees's centrally oriented attack it makes me lean towards Annah team a bit. Make no mistake, I absolutely love Raees team and his midfield is just :drool:with Carter playmaking for Law is just fantastic. Just think its a bit too defensive and he only has a predictable central route which Annah's team is equipped to handle.

Tbf to him his defense will do a great job at stifling Annahs attack but I can see them sneaking a goal in the course of 90 mins but Raees might not have enough routes to score a goal imo.

Will see this play out for now
Very obvious that you've put a lot of effort in to getting to know the players in this draft, you have a really good understanding of both teams! Impressive.

I didn't want to be too long on each player so I have a lot of stored up on them for the discussion. Mortensen will go a bit under the radar, but he's a top striker - 22 goals in 25 England matches is brilliant and he was the top scorer of the league in 51 with 30 goals playing next to Stanley.

Tommy Lawton described Mortensen as "the most dangerous attacker of his day". He added: "With that curious, energetic run he has burst open more defences than any other man of his time, and I don't think I know a player who was faster off the mark than this Blackpool Bombshell was."

Stanley himself described it as "With the passing of each game, we developed a greater understanding of one another's style of play. A couple of years down the line it was as if we could read one another's minds. The on-the-field relationship was uncanny. When such a partnership is formed in football, it produces magical moments."

Matthews continues: "For a forward renowned for his goalscoring, he would often drop off quite deep to collect the ball and once he had it I'd take off down the wing. Invariably I'd never look back, the ball would be pushed in front of me to run on to, or come looping over my shoulder beautifully weighted with back spin on it so it slowed up ready for me to collect without breaking stride.

Morty
would head off for the left of the penalty spot, then with a burst of lightning speed head towards the near post. His change in direction and speed threw defenders and more often than not it meant he arrived at the near post in space. He wasn't the tallest of forwards and this I think helped him in his ability to swivel and turn his body for the arriving ball.

He was lethal in the box and pretty lethal outside it as well. He possessed a monstrous and explosive shot with either foot. For a man of his height, five feet ten, he was a match for anyone in the air. He had the uncanny knack of all great predatory strikers of being able to predict where the ball would arrive and this meant he often met it without having an aerial duel with the towering centre-half whose job it was to mark him. Once airborne, it was as if the thumb and first finger of the right hand of the good Lord had reached down, nipped the shirt on his back and held him there because Morty seemed to defy gravity and hang in the air for ages."
 

Annahnomoss

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Brilliant bit which explains the uniqueness of Matthews as a teamplayer: "He compelled attention, which was very often his principal value when he was playing for England. It did not matter, least of all to Matthews, which of his side puts the ball in the net...

When he moved with the ball, shuffling, leaning, edging ever closer to the defender, he was always the man teetering to the very brink of disaster, and we waited breathlessly to see whether this time he would fail or whether yet again he would come swaying back at the last possible moment to run on clear and free... The sadly impassive face, pale lips and hooded eyes, had a lot of pain in it, the deep hurt that came from prolonged effort and the certainty of more blows.

It was a workers' face, like a miner's, never really young, tight against the brutal world even in repose... He was representative of his age and his class, brought up among thrift and the ever-looming threat of dole and debt."

 

crappycraperson

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I need more input from managers here before voting.

@Raees - You seem to have bet it all on keeping Annah out and scoring one. That's a valid strategy but do you think you can mount a comeback if he ends up scoring first? Or is that a no-no as per your tactics. Unlike others I actually do think you can shut out Annah, it's just the scoring part that needs more convincing.

@Annahnomoss - i need to read up more on your defense I guess. That's the key part for me. If your defense is not a weakness then I can buy that Best or Mathews will create one at the other end, otherwise Raees can do you on counter and sit back even more.
 

Skizzo

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The fact that raees' formation looks like a giant hand showing a middle finger is doing it for me.

But seriously, think annah is set up to Best ( ;) ) capitalize on his threat going forward. No slight on raees because he has a great set up. .. but don't think he could shut out that offense... or do enough to get back into the game if they concede
 

Raees

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Formation change coming up.. by the way as much as I love annahs frontline I don't think his defence and supporting midfield duo is receiving enough critical analysis. It seems to be a given that its solid.. ? Granted I am playing on counter attack but has he got a world class defence? I have players in there who are capable of keeping his guys quiet.. Reaney has proven it and if Hapgood can't keep Matthews quiet or at least give him a fair game who can. Not to mention.. likes of bremner and ball helping to track back too.. double teaming if need be with enough energy to counter.
 

Annahnomoss

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I need more input from managers here before voting.

@Raees - You seem to have bet it all on keeping Annah out and scoring one. That's a valid strategy but do you think you can mount a comeback if he ends up scoring first? Or is that a no-no as per your tactics. Unlike others I actually do think you can shut out Annah, it's just the scoring part that needs more convincing.

@Annahnomoss - i need to read up more on your defense I guess. That's the key part for me. If your defense is not a weakness then I can buy that Best or Mathews will create one at the other end, otherwise Raees can do you on counter and sit back even more.
Above their quality they are a brilliant trio - Mel Hopkins and Billy McCracken were brilliant in the one on one game thanks to their speed - while still being strong in the air and centrally a typical British hard man in George Hardwick who was an outstanding passer as well.

Mel Hopkins, who played with both Blanchflower and Burgess in the "push and run" team: The upshot, after spurning interest from Matt Busby's Manchester United, was a Spurs contract as an amateur in May 1951, duly followed by a professional deal a year later.

This was a period when Arthur Rowe's exhilarating push-and-run combination, which had lifted the championships of the Football League's top two tiers in 1950 and1951, was beginning to decline, so there was ample opportunity for promising rookies to make their mark. Accordingly, Hopkins made his senior debut as a 17-year-old at Derby in October 1952, soon emerging as a natural successor to the two men who had previously contested the left-back berth, the ageing Arthur Willis and Charlie Withers.

By 1954-55 Hopkins was the regular incumbent and when he earnedhis first cap for Wales, against Northern Ireland at Ninian Park, Cardiff,in April 1956, he was hailed as one of the best young flank defenders in Britain. Immediately he became an automatic selection for his country, embarking on a sequence of 23 consecutive appearances, including five in the World Cup finals of 1958 in Sweden, where Wales bowed out at the quarter-final stage to the eventual winners Brazil.

That day in Gothenburg Hopkins shone against his direct opponent, the brilliant but bewilderingly unorthodox winger Garrincha, known in South America as "The Angel with Bent Legs", a bamboozling dribbler with a deformed spine of whom the Welshman remarked: "His legs went one way and his body went the other. It was difficult to know whether you were coming or going." Jimmy Murphy's gallant side, shorn of their own star player, John Charles, through injury, and also facing the teenage genius Pele, lost by the game's only goal but covered themselves in glory for their spirited display.

Now Hopkins, who had helped Tottenham to finish second and third in England's top flight during the previous two League campaigns, while resisting what proved to be anominously persistent challenge from the erstwhile understudy Henry, was at his zenith. Standing an inch under six feet and with a loping, almostspidery gait, he could appear awkward, but that was deceptive. In fact, he was an accomplished all-round footballer, quick and tenacious, strong in the air, a perceptive passer and a brisk tackler."

George Hardwick:
Boro’s ferrous full-back was dubbed “Gentleman George” but it was more for his engaging lady-killing charm, rakish moustache and debonair dress sense off the pitch than anything polite in his demeanour on it.
His deceptive film star façade was totally at odds with a ruthless tenacity in the tackle that made even the hardest players of the day wince.

Football was an unforgiving game in the Pathe News era of bruising forwards, no-nonsense defenders and brutal midfield hatchet man.
But even in that era of hard men, the Boro skipper had a fearsome reputation.

He had already shown he was bomb-proof when he shrugged off shrapnel injuries to both legs in a German air raid on his Isle of Sheppey RAF base in the war.

The fear of Hardwick ’s crunching challenges made some household names fear the trip to Ayresome Park.

It was widely whispered that Stanley Matthews, the Wizard of the Dribble, was petrified of playing Hardwick.

Matthews’ trickery had seen him weave his way to fame, side-stepping weekly scything carthorse challenges.

But Hardwick was precise in the tackle, with an instinctive reading of body language and split second timing that trumped Matthews fleet-footed trickery.

He could also hit an opponent like a train. After some bruising early encounters in games and England training sessions jittery Matthews knew Hardwick had his number.

Matthews was conspicuous by his absence on the team-sheet whenever Stoke or Blackpool were pitted against Boro.

And Sir Stan wasn’t the only one to shrink when faced with a player who had learned his trade in the cut-throat local leagues of Teesside.

As a scrawny teenager he at South Bank East End he learned quickly to survive in physical sides peppered with cynical steelworkers and dockers out to bully the young upstart.

His toughness and an eye for exquisite pass soon attracted the big boys with Arsenal and Rangers being snubbed so he could sign for his beloved Boro .

He soon became a fixture at Ayresome where he honed his tackling art that was to take him to the top of the game.

“You always you knew when you had been hit by a tackle from George,” confirmed teammate Billy Day, who took repeated blows in training.

“He was firm and fast when he went in to the challenge and accurate too.

“He rarely missed a tackle and he when he got the ball he rarely wasted it.”

Hardwick’s incredible career was built on that efficiency.

When he won the ball – as he invariably did – he used it with great intelligence to pick out an incisive pass that brought the best out of the mercurial movement of Wilf Mannion.

In fact his ability to use the ball and his comfort in possession prompted Brian Clough to proclaim him a revolutionary.

“He was an attacking full-back before his time,” said Cloughie in his pomp, hailing the man who urged him to go into management.

“He could get the ball and play it ... normally they just kick it but George used it brilliantly.”

His strength in the tackle and his ability with the ball made Hardwick a red-hot property.

When he left Boro after 166 games in a war-disrupted spell it was to Oldham for £15,000 - a world record for a full-back.

He was the first man to make his England debut as captain and the only one to skipper the side in every one of his caps, all 13 of them.

He is also the only man to captain a Great Britain side in a post-war showdown with a combined Europe side.

And he later went on to work with the Dutch FA and PSV Eindhoven and is credited in Holland as being one of the architects of “total football”.

Billy McCracken

"Billy Mccracken - Belfast born - was one of the best but also most loathed footballers of his generation."

McCracken played for the English club Newcastle United from 1904 to 1924, helping them win three League titles and the FA Cup. McCracken was so adept at catching the opposing teams forwards offside that he forced a change in the rules of the game. By consistently keeping clean sheets - 6 goalless draws - in one season FA decided they had to change the rules.

He was one of the games "thinkers" and he realized that by organizing his defense perfectly he could catch his opponents in offside in a manner of consistency which was terrific. One of the few players to be so effective at something that he forced the FA to first change the throw in rule - so you couldn't be offside on throw ins - and later also the offside rule as a whole.

Almost every defense tried to copy McCracken - but none nearly as successful - which shows his great abilities as an organizer and tactician.

He's seen as one of Newcastles greatest players ever - with 400 games before retiring.
 
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crappycraperson

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Formation change coming up.. by the way as much as I love annahs frontline I don't think his defence and supporting midfield duo is receiving enough critical analysis. It seems to be a given that its solid.. ? Granted I am playing on counter attack but has he got a world class defence? I have players in there who are capable of keeping his guys quiet.. Reaney has proven it and if Hapgood can't keep Matthews quiet or at least give him a fair game who can. Not to mention.. likes of bremner and ball helping to track back too.. double teaming if need be with enough energy to counter.
Yes, like I predicted playing unknown older players seems to allow you to skate by without any questioning. It is a tricky one since you can't assume a defense or MF to be weak or strong without any evidence and thus end up simply ignoring it. I think it is a very big problem in the drafts which encompasses players from an earlier era.
 

Raees

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Above their quality they are a brilliant trio - Mel Hopkins and Billy McCracken were brilliant in the one on one game thanks to their speed - while still being strong in the air and centrally a typical British hard man in George Hardwick who was an outstanding passer as well.

Mel Hopkins, who played with both Blanchflower and Burgess in the "push and run" team: The upshot, after spurning interest from Matt Busby's Manchester United, was a Spurs contract as an amateur in May 1951, duly followed by a professional deal a year later.

This was a period when Arthur Rowe's exhilarating push-and-run combination, which had lifted the championships of the Football League's top two tiers in 1950 and1951, was beginning to decline, so there was ample opportunity for promising rookies to make their mark. Accordingly, Hopkins made his senior debut as a 17-year-old at Derby in October 1952, soon emerging as a natural successor to the two men who had previously contested the left-back berth, the ageing Arthur Willis and Charlie Withers.

By 1954-55 Hopkins was the regular incumbent and when he earnedhis first cap for Wales, against Northern Ireland at Ninian Park, Cardiff,in April 1956, he was hailed as one of the best young flank defenders in Britain. Immediately he became an automatic selection for his country, embarking on a sequence of 23 consecutive appearances, including five in the World Cup finals of 1958 in Sweden, where Wales bowed out at the quarter-final stage to the eventual winners Brazil.

That day in Gothenburg Hopkins shone against his direct opponent, the brilliant but bewilderingly unorthodox winger Garrincha, known in South America as "The Angel with Bent Legs", a bamboozling dribbler with a deformed spine of whom the Welshman remarked: "His legs went one way and his body went the other. It was difficult to know whether you were coming or going." Jimmy Murphy's gallant side, shorn of their own star player, John Charles, through injury, and also facing the teenage genius Pele, lost by the game's only goal but covered themselves in glory for their spirited display.

Now Hopkins, who had helped Tottenham to finish second and third in England's top flight during the previous two League campaigns, while resisting what proved to be anominously persistent challenge from the erstwhile understudy Henry, was at his zenith. Standing an inch under six feet and with a loping, almostspidery gait, he could appear awkward, but that was deceptive. In fact, he was an accomplished all-round footballer, quick and tenacious, strong in the air, a perceptive passer and a brisk tackler."

George Hardwick:
Boro’s ferrous full-back was dubbed “Gentleman George” but it was more for his engaging lady-killing charm, rakish moustache and debonair dress sense off the pitch than anything polite in his demeanour on it.
His deceptive film star façade was totally at odds with a ruthless tenacity in the tackle that made even the hardest players of the day wince.

Football was an unforgiving game in the Pathe News era of bruising forwards, no-nonsense defenders and brutal midfield hatchet man.
But even in that era of hard men, the Boro skipper had a fearsome reputation.

He had already shown he was bomb-proof when he shrugged off shrapnel injuries to both legs in a German air raid on his Isle of Sheppey RAF base in the war.

The fear of Hardwick ’s crunching challenges made some household names fear the trip to Ayresome Park.

It was widely whispered that Stanley Matthews, the Wizard of the Dribble, was petrified of playing Hardwick.

Matthews’ trickery had seen him weave his way to fame, side-stepping weekly scything carthorse challenges.

But Hardwick was precise in the tackle, with an instinctive reading of body language and split second timing that trumped Matthews fleet-footed trickery.

He could also hit an opponent like a train. After some bruising early encounters in games and England training sessions jittery Matthews knew Hardwick had his number.

Matthews was conspicuous by his absence on the team-sheet whenever Stoke or Blackpool were pitted against Boro.

And Sir Stan wasn’t the only one to shrink when faced with a player who had learned his trade in the cut-throat local leagues of Teesside.

As a scrawny teenager he at South Bank East End he learned quickly to survive in physical sides peppered with cynical steelworkers and dockers out to bully the young upstart.

His toughness and an eye for exquisite pass soon attracted the big boys with Arsenal and Rangers being snubbed so he could sign for his beloved Boro .

He soon became a fixture at Ayresome where he honed his tackling art that was to take him to the top of the game.

“You always you knew when you had been hit by a tackle from George,” confirmed teammate Billy Day, who took repeated blows in training.

“He was firm and fast when he went in to the challenge and accurate too.

“He rarely missed a tackle and he when he got the ball he rarely wasted it.”

Hardwick’s incredible career was built on that efficiency.

When he won the ball – as he invariably did – he used it with great intelligence to pick out an incisive pass that brought the best out of the mercurial movement of Wilf Mannion.

In fact his ability to use the ball and his comfort in possession prompted Brian Clough to proclaim him a revolutionary.

“He was an attacking full-back before his time,” said Cloughie in his pomp, hailing the man who urged him to go into management.

“He could get the ball and play it ... normally they just kick it but George used it brilliantly.”

His strength in the tackle and his ability with the ball made Hardwick a red-hot property.

When he left Boro after 166 games in a war-disrupted spell it was to Oldham for £15,000 - a world record for a full-back.

He was the first man to make his England debut as captain and the only one to skipper the side in every one of his caps, all 13 of them.

He is also the only man to captain a Great Britain side in a post-war showdown with a combined Europe side.

And he later went on to work with the Dutch FA and PSV Eindhoven and is credited in Holland as being one of the architects of “total football”.

Billy McCracken (incoming)
Fair play, good reads @Annahnomoss
 

Annahnomoss

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Formation change coming up.. by the way as much as I love annahs frontline I don't think his defence and supporting midfield duo is receiving enough critical analysis. It seems to be a given that its solid.. ? Granted I am playing on counter attack but has he got a world class defence? I have players in there who are capable of keeping his guys quiet.. Reaney has proven it and if Hapgood can't keep Matthews quiet or at least give him a fair game who can. Not to mention.. likes of bremner and ball helping to track back too.. double teaming if need be with enough energy to counter.
You are really clutching for straws here. I have three central defenders back, even when I am attacking and I have three natural defensive midfielders acting in the central areas as well. Blanchflower was the better partner of the Mackay/Blanchflower partnership and Burgess like my write up reads - is considered to be a near equally skilled player as Mackay in the very same mold.

Blanchflower was a defensive midfielder and is in that role considered one of the all time best - even if I secured it further with Ron Burgess and Bill Slater there. Bill Slater is also of the same mold as Mackay, so my midfield is incredibly strong defensively - two defensive midfielder - and one defensively brilliant central midfielder in Blanchflower.
 

Theon

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Close but has to be Raees for me - really like the look of his midfield and much prefer his defence. I think they'll have better control of the game and up top Law is always good for a goal or two.

It's no surprise that this particular draft is all about overhyping your players, due to a relatively unfamiliar pool, but this is too much, really!
Campbell was actually a fantastic defender at his prime and there genuinely werent many defenders as complete as him, primarily due to his immense physique and mobility. There have been far many other players overhyped more than Campbell has there IMO.

His partner Billy McNeill is the best defender on the pitch though, first British player to lift the European Cup when he Captained Celtic in '67. We have a huge Celtic following in my family and amongst all the clubs legends only Jinky Johnstone is as revered as McNeill. Raees has a great centre back pairing there.
 

Annahnomoss

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Regarding the formation change it is what I had planned for and it means that Lorimer is his main width - up against my left back Sansom and centrally where both Law and Jones will want to operate I have three central defenders, two defensive midfielders and a central midfielder. Both teams central players will crowd those areas of the pitch and Stanley Matthews and George Best are just much, much more likely to beat their defender down the wing.

Best is also the most clear cut threat when I win the ball as he's positioned so far up the pitch already, trying to expose the weakness in Raees defense rather than sticking out wide.
 

Gio

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Campbell was actually a fantastic defender at his prime and there genuinely werent many defenders as complete as him, primarily due to his immense physique and mobility. There have been far many other players overhyped more than Campbell has there IMO.

His partner Billy McNeill is the best defender on the pitch though, first British player to lift the European Cup when he Captained Celtic in '67. We have a huge Celtic following in my family and amongst all the clubs legends only Jinky Johnstone is as revered as McNeill. Raees has a great centre back pairing there.
Agree on Campbell, although I'd rank him as the top centre-half on the pitch. McNeill was obviously a great defender but gets slightly over-rated relative to his peers because of his captaincy and leadership of great teams in the same way that Adams, Greig and Terry do.
 

Theon

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Agree on Campbell, although I'd rank him as the top centre-half on the pitch. McNeill was obviously a great defender but gets slightly over-rated relative to his peers because of his captaincy and leadership of great teams in the same way that Adams, Greig and Terry do.
Certainly not the first time I've heard a Rangers fan try and talk down McNeill, Gio :smirk:

I think he's comfortably the best defender on the pitch, based on numerous accounts from people who consistently saw him play.

We won't agree here which is fine and all in good spirits. As I said though, only Johnstone seems to gather the same reverence and this is from people who know Celtic and know their football.
 

Annahnomoss

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I think Stanley Matthews is falling slightly under the radar here - "The Football League continued for the 1946–47 season, and Matthews played 23 league games, being a major contributor to 30 of the club's 41 goals in these games."

He wasn't a goalscorer but, above the goals George Best(And Mortensen) would naturally create for himself and the striker - Stanley Matthews would create equally many for Mortensen and Best here. In terms of creating chances he is among the best in history, that was basically his entire game and that game is what has got him considered as one of the best players in history, and after Garrincha the best out and out winger in history.

The full backs in the draft aren't of the top quality - while they are up against Best and Matthews here. Matthews did play one of the top three best left backs in history though, when he was 41 years old and not in his peak - and it ended with Matthews beating him time after time and creating all 4 goals.
 

Gio

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Blanchflower was the better partner of the Mackay/Blanchflower partnership and Burgess like my write up reads - is considered to be a near equally skilled player as Mackay in the very same mold..
I reckon you're over-rating Blanchflower here.
 

Raees

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Paul Reaney 'George Best's Nemesis'

Reaney quickly earned a reputation as a fiercely competitive, disciplined defender, capable of closing out the most talented of attackers—George Best rated Reaney as one of the two best defenders he played against, the other being Sanchis of Real Madrid.

Best's opinion...
'I was marked by Paul Reaney, who was one of the best full backs I've played against and he hardly gave me a kick. By that, I mean he hardly allowed me a kick at the ball, though he delivered plenty of his own to my legs. I had never worn shin pads until that that day...

George Best's recollection is probably quite typical of the views held by his team mates: "That Leeds team are now remembered as the most cynical football team of all time. Although they did deserve that reputation, I hated playing against them, I really did, it must be remembered that they also had a hell of a lot of skill, too, but they were still a bloody nightmare.

"But my little anecdote tends to sum them up. It concerns Matt Busby who, in a team talk before meeting Leeds, went through each member of their side. It must be remembered that Busby loved Man United but he was also a fiercely patriotic Scot.

"Anyway, Matt went like this: 'Gary Sprake, the goalkeeper . . . on his day a nasty piece of work. Right-back, Paul Reaney . . . dirty bastard. Left-back, Terry Cooper. . . . even dirtier bastard. Johnny Giles. . . dirty little bastard. Centre-half, Jack Charlton . . . dirty big bastard. Right-half, wee Billy Bremner . . . good Scottish boy!'"

For Best, Paul Reaney came to be a feared spectre at the feast over the years; he was usually detailed to man mark the gifted Irishman, and had done so successfully during the match between the two team. Over the next five years, as Manchester United conquered Europe and George Best was at his peak, he tore countless teams to shreds, but for all his sublime ability he never once dominated a game against Leeds United. It wasn't because Best was physically frightened by Leeds, simply that Leeds were prepared to use every weapon at their disposal to stop him playing, whether physical, psychological, tactical or, like the tunnel assault, borderline criminal.

Harry Redknapp on REANEY

He would be the least favourite opponent of 99 per cent of wingers. Reaney found a way of stopping George Best that eluded other players. His physical approach was important — but his speed, timing and positioning were faultless, too.

Fans from the 60's
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-your-favourite-right-back-revealed-1-3407997

Belfast’s finest, George Best, may have tortured many a full-back during his decorated career at Old Trafford, but one player was most definitely his master – as United fans have delighted in saying over the years.

Step forward Paul Reaney, our top man on the right-hand side of the defence after scooping 53 per cent of the votes – to join No.1 Nigel Martyn in our YEP United dream team, which is now taking shape.

A veteran of well over 700 games in a 17-year association with the Whites, encompassing all the glory years under the legendary Don Revie, Reaney had the measure of most opposing wingers, particularly the feted Best and the Whites droves have been quick to put that point in the floods of e-mails they have sent to us.

Alongside the fact that the consummately-skilled defender, who had few peers in his playing days, should have been awarded a load more England caps after incredibly picking up a derisory three.

Echoing a common theme, billyboy4 e-mailed: “Has to be Paul Reaney. Not given enough recognition at international level, but was one of the few players to keep George Best under wraps when they met. Speedy Reaney could cross a ball and had pace to match any winger, he was strong and could tackle a bus. Case closed!”

Carmel Garland was another who revelled in the prowess of Reaney, stating: “George Best could NEVER get past him, a joy to watch,” while George Southern said: “I never saw Jimmy Dunn or Willis Edwards, but it has to be Paul Reaney. He was such an ever-present, dependable player, his performances could be taken for granted, I suppose. His pace was surprising, his overlapping runs exciting, but my main Reaney memory is the number of goalline clearances he made. All good right-backs, though, it’s a good list!”

An e-mail from origina lkoppite perhaps best summed up the feelings of many, saying: “I saw Paul Reaney from the time he made his debut to his retirement and he was head and shoulders the best right-back that has ever played for United and he might be the best that ever played for England.”

http://www.lufctalk.com/forum-archive/index.php?topic=4496


Johnny Giles on Blanchflower and Mackay

"Saw Danny as a real leader, but not in the same class of player as Mackay... probably if I had to choose between two Blanchflowers or two Mackays, Id have to pick two Mackay's.. but I'm lucky I don't have that dilemma.

The other players used to say that Dave was so ferociously competitive that even in games during training it was imperative to be on his side - that if you were on Daves side, anything was possible. Rob white recollection of John white's stories...

 

Annahnomoss

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I reckon you're over-rating Blanchflower here.
Blanchflower was the captain of the team and had extra-ordinary freedom from their legendary coach Arthur Rowe. Also the Footballer of the year both in 58 and in their double winning 60-61. Bill Slater - my defensive midfielder won it in 59-60. Mackay had his arguably best career as a 34 year old in the second division as a sweeper I believe for Derby.

Mackay was brought as a brilliant complement for Danny Blanchflower and he was - but Danny was clearly the star. Rowe would allow him to make on pitch tactical changes himself as well as in half time.

Not saying Mackay didn't make it close - but Rowe, and Tottenham were a passing team and Blanchflower was the best passer in it while Mackay provided a combination of work rate and good ability on the ball. The same type of player as Ron Burgess is in my team.
 

Raees

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Blanchflower was the captain of the team and had extra-ordinary freedom from their legendary coach Arthur Rowe. Also the Footballer of the year both in 58 and in their double winning 60-61. Bill Slater - my defensive midfielder won it in 59-60. Mackay had his arguably best career as a 34 year old in the second division as a sweeper I believe for Derby.

Mackay was brought as a brilliant complement for Danny Blanchflower and he was - but Danny was clearly the star. Rowe would allow him to make on pitch tactical changes himself as well as in half time.

Not saying Mackay didn't make it close - but Rowe, and Tottenham were a passing team and Blanchflower was the best passer in it while Mackay provided a combination of work rate and good ability on the ball. The same type of player as Ron Burgess is in my team.
In your defence, for me Blanchflower was a cruyff type figure for Spurs... a tactical genius on the pitch. Mackay is a footballing god in british folklore too, I don't think you're doing him justice.
 

Annahnomoss

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In your defence, for me Blanchflower was a cruyff type figure for Spurs... a tactical genius on the pitch. Mackay is a footballing god in british folklore too, I don't think you're doing him justice.
Not trying to downplay Mackay at all, he's bloody brilliant and I went out and got the best replacement I could for him in Ron Burgess. If I had any doubts over Mackay's abilities I'd have not tried to replace him but improve. But there is still no doubt that Blanchflower was the better half of the partnership, the notorious captain, leader and star of the team.

No shame in Scholes being second to Keane when the partnership was one of the best ever in the league and the same goes for Mackay and Blanchflower.
 

Lynk

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Annah gets my nod.
 

Gio

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Not trying to downplay Mackay at all, he's bloody brilliant and I went out and got the best replacement I could for him in Ron Burgess. If I had any doubts over Mackay's abilities I'd have not tried to replace him but improve. But there is still no doubt that Blanchflower was the better half of the partnership, the notorious captain, leader and star of the team.

No shame in Scholes being second to Keane when the partnership was one of the best ever in the league and the same goes for Mackay and Blanchflower.
But there's plenty of doubt about it. It's pretty close either way. If we're making a Keane/Scholes comparison, it's pretty clear that Keane and Mackay are cut from the same cloth while Scholes and Blanchflower have the same unrivalled playmaking ability.
 

Raees

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But there's plenty of doubt about it. It's pretty close either way. If we're making a Keane/Scholes comparison, it's pretty clear that Keane and Mackay are cut from the same cloth while Scholes and Blanchflower have the same unrivalled playmaking ability.
Just on a side note... Blancflower v Scholes and Keane v Mackay, where would your money be on. Also Bremner.. he's being sidelined in this match, he's as successful as any on the pitch.
 

Gio

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Just on a side note... Blancflower v Scholes and Keane v Mackay, where would your money be on. Also Bremner.. he's being sidelined in this match, he's as successful as any on the pitch.
Well for me Mackay, Souness and Keane are the three standout uncompromising midfield generals in the draft.
 

antohan

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McCracken played for the English club Newcastle United from 1904 to 1924, helping them win three League titles and the FA Cup. McCracken was so adept at catching the opposing teams forwards offside that he forced a change in the rules of the game. By consistently keeping clean sheets - 6 goalless draws - in one season FA decided they had to change the rules.

He was one of the games "thinkers" and he realized that by organizing his defense perfectly he could catch his opponents in offside in a manner of consistency which was terrific. One of the few players to be so effective at something that he forced the FA to first change the throw in rule - so you couldn't be offside on throw ins - and later also the offside rule as a whole.
This is the second time I read this stuff about how he forced the change of the offfside rule. How exactly? How did it work before and after and what did he do to force such a change?

I get it with throw-ins, that's pretty bleeding obvious, you could pretty much run all the way up the pitch and wind up with the guy taking the throw-in needing to Rory Delap it into his own box, which is clearly flawed.
 

Annahnomoss

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But there's plenty of doubt about it. It's pretty close either way. If we're making a Keane/Scholes comparison, it's pretty clear that Keane and Mackay are cut from the same cloth while Scholes and Blanchflower have the same unrivalled playmaking ability.
Just on a side note... Blancflower v Scholes and Keane v Mackay, where would your money be on. Also Bremner.. he's being sidelined in this match, he's as successful as any on the pitch.
Blanchflower was more in the mold of the playmaking Scholes - not much of an extremely offensive box to box genius at all - and instead more about controlling the tempo - finding passing angles between and behind defenders that barely existed - but at the same time the teams leader and captain.

Mackay was a Keane type though, and I agree that he is one of the top midfield generals like Gio says.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Some great posts in this thread. Its hard for me to feel like I've formed a credible opinion with some of the more obscure players, but both of the managers are doing a good job in filling in the blanks.

I keep on being on the verge of voting for Annah on the strength of his formidable attack serviced by Blanchflower, but this Reaney as Best's kryptonite angle has me intrigued. I love the combativeness and workrate in Raees' midfield, and McNeill and Campbell in a back four looks great to me.

One question for @Raees though, out of McNeill, Mackay and Campbell, who have you awarded the captaincy too? :angel: