[NZT-One]

On the flip side he has united 'fans' in here where he could score a CL final hat trick and save their mothers from a burning building and they'd still say he's overrated and holding us back.

Interesting anecdote but those fans don't seem to post in here but in the secret Bruno channel that I seem to have no access to. Or... you mean me, then we have a different discussion.

I would have preferred that he didn't. Don't get me wrong, he has stepped it up recently in Amad's absence. However, he had time remaining on his previous deal. The new contract was all about Bruno threatening to leave and the club bowing to his demands. That's not a good position to be in as a club. I would have preferred it if we had called his bluff, accepted a huge fee and reinvested accordingly. We may even have ended up becoming a better team as a result.

Same here. Even though my feeling is, that by now we probably wouldn't be better off.

Needs to be playing in the midfield role. Dictates the game better with his passing.

When he plays as the 10 he drifts all over place and feel we lose attacking option. Especially when he drops deep for the ball.

If we get in a good number 10 in summer window then Bruno needs to be midfield.

Means we can have the 3 attackers ahead of him.

Astonishing to believe people can watch us and have an interest in football, yet still think it is a good idea to play weak AMs in CM and that all the Top teams don't do it because they aren't as innovative as us...

And a guy with Xavi in the name talking about Bruno and him "dictating" play...thats something

 

[LeonDion]

On the flip side he has united 'fans' in here where he could score a CL final hat trick and save their mothers from a burning building and they'd still say he's overrated and holding us back.

If he did that and played shite…he’d still have played shite?

 

[Pickle85]

I would have preferred that he didn't. Don't get me wrong, he has stepped it up recently in Amad's absence. However, he had time remaining on his previous deal. The new contract was all about Bruno threatening to leave and the club bowing to his demands. That's not a good position to be in as a club. I would have preferred it if we had called his bluff, accepted a huge fee and reinvested accordingly. We may even have ended up becoming a better team as a result.

Yep, good plan to get rid of our best player with precisely zero assurance that we'd get anything close to an upgrade. Absolute bollocks to say that him not signing would have been a positive.

Interesting anecdote but those fans don't seem to post in here but in the secret Bruno channel that I seem to have no access to. Or... you mean me, then we have a different discussion.


Same here. Even though my feeling is, that by now we probably wouldn't be better off.


Astonishing to believe people can watch us and have an interest in football, yet still think it is a good idea to play weak AMs in CM and that all the Top teams don't do it because they aren't as innovative as us...

And a guy with Xavi in the name talking about Bruno and him "dictating" play...thats something

Yep, I'm referring to you

If he did that and played shite…he’d still have played shite?

Did you read the message I quoted?

 

[Tincanalley]

Just chiming in to say. I love Bruno. He's an incredible player. He does things that no player for us besides him has been able to do for a decade. Talent, workrate, ability to pick a killer pass, and leadership when we've been bereft.

And he gets an incredible run from the media. Every single impartial report starts with something like 'despite his faults' or 'he's not the complete player but' before they eulogise some performance or other. 'He's not the complete midfielder, but tonight he produced something sublime'... or some such. What utter bollocks.

Christ, we know he's not a box to box, or an enforcer, or a speedy winger, or an MF capable of bursting through defences. Do they also do reports that say 'Salah doesn't track back, but he was good tonight'; 'De Bruyne doesn't have physicality but his passing range makes up for it'; or 'Messi can unlock the tightest defences which makes up for his inability to claim crosses'.

Let Bruno do his thing while he's head and shoulders above the rest. Love his attitude and his capabilities.

Excellent post and too true

 

[Remember the geese]

Yep, good plan to get rid of our best player with precisely zero assurance that we'd get anything close to an upgrade. Absolute bollocks to say that him not signing would have been a positive.

Or you could just say that you disagree...

 

[Just Hope]

Needs to be playing in the midfield role. Dictates the game better with his passing.

When he plays as the 10 he drifts all over place and feel we lose attacking option. Especially when he drops deep for the ball.

If we get in a good number 10 in summer window then Bruno needs to be midfield.

Means we can have the 3 attackers ahead of him.

He can't because we don't have the players for it. The most important part of the team, the midfield, is a disaster.

 

[Olecurls99]

He was back to the old Bruno in the 1st half which is all the more infuriating considering how well he's played since Christmas.

Forest were there for the taking and he was giving it back to them like it was a bomb.

 

[NZT-One]

Yep, good plan to get rid of our best player with precisely zero assurance that we'd get anything close to an upgrade. Absolute bollocks to say that him not signing would have been a positive.

The only thing the poster did was pointing out, that the extension had a certain taste, not because the player didn't play well enough for a raise but because the point in time was a little strange. You don't have to agree on that opinion but to call it bollocks is odd - almost as odd as being happy that the player got a raise. I mean, again, I can see why it would be odd to be angry about him getting a raise but to be happy about it? Why? We failed as a team last season and we failed even more this season. I know your group sits on a wall where everybody is at fault but Bruno but if you really think it would be "absolute bollocks" to question the point in time where somebody becomes top earner then you have to see for yourself that you are overshooting by a bit.

Yep, I'm referring to you

So we have the reading issue confirmed. Honestly mate, if you do read my posts and go away with me trying to convey the message of "overrated and holding us back" then something is up. "when one loses the capacity for nuance, one becomes an extremist..."

Or you could just say that you disagree...

No, that would be "absolute bollocks". If you consider yourself to be "on the right side of things", opinions become facts and some opinions are so wrong, that something has to be up with the persons motivations.

 

[Remember the geese]

No, that would be "absolute bollocks". If you consider yourself to be "on the right side of things", opinions become facts and some opinions are so wrong, that something has to be up with the persons motivations.

It's amusing how emotional the response was. I just pointed out that Bruno essentially gave the club an ultimatum and the club bowed to his demands. Yet we have to be delighted this occurred. Or something.

 

[Pickle85]

The only thing the poster did was pointing out, that the extension had a certain taste, not because the player didn't play well enough for a raise but because the point in time was a little strange. You don't have to agree on that opinion but to call it bollocks is odd - almost as odd as being happy that the player got a raise. I mean, again, I can see why it would be odd to be angry about him getting a raise but to be happy about it? Why? We failed as a team last season and we failed even more this season. I know your group sits on a wall where everybody is at fault but Bruno but if you really think it would be "absolute bollocks" to question the point in time where somebody becomes top earner then you have to see for yourself that you are overshooting by a bit.


So we have the reading issue confirmed. Honestly mate, if you do read my posts and go away with me trying to convey the message of "overrated and holding us back" then something is up. "when one loses the capacity for nuance, one becomes an extremist..."


No, that would be "absolute bollocks". If you consider yourself to be "on the right side of things", opinions become facts and some opinions are so wrong, that something has to be up with the persons motivations.

It's sweet that you feel the need to jump in so regularly on behalf of other posters but I'm not getting into it with you. You live in grey spaces, leveling veiled criticisms at the player while maintaining just enough grey area to retreat back to your faux-objectivity fence when someone calls you out.

 

[Pickle85]

It's amusing how emotional the response was. I just pointed out that Bruno essentially gave the club an ultimatum and the club bowed to his demands. Yet we have to be delighted this occurred. Or something.

If we didn't renew him (on a contract that was absolutely deserved when you look at our pay scale more broadly) he would have left. So yes, I think that not signing him up again would have been dumb because we didn't want to lose him. Which has been proven correct thus far.

 

[Remember the geese]

If we didn't renew him (on a contract that was absolutely deserved when you look at our pay scale more broadly) he would have left. So yes, I think that not signing him up again would have been dumb because we didn't want to lose him. Which has been proven correct thus far.

We didn't need to sign him up. He had time remaining on his previous deal. It was only because Bruno was kicking off that we were 'forced' into offering him a new contract.

Like I say, I don't feel that Bruno is worth £300k a week or whatever he's on. It is my view that nobody at the club should be earning more than £200k a week.

 

[Pickle85]

We didn't need to sign him up. He had time remaining on his previous deal. It was only because Bruno was kicking off that we were 'forced' into offering him a new contract.

Like I say, I don't feel that Bruno is worth £300k a week or whatever he's on. It is my view that nobody at the club should be earning more than £200k a week.

I agree with this and apologies if my original post was a little blunt, diplomacy not always my strong point.

What I'll say is that we backed ourselves into a corner where our best player was (rightly imo) demanding pay parity or thereabouts with our best paid (who were playing horribly). Clubs reward player performance with contract renewals and so I think it was a perfectly understandable move, even more so when you consider that the alternative would have likely been losing our best player.

 

[Remember the geese]

I agree with this and apologies if my original post was a little blunt, diplomacy not always my strong point.

What I'll say is that we backed ourselves into a corner where our best player was (rightly imo) demanding pay parity or thereabouts with our best paid (who were playing horribly). Clubs reward player performance with contract renewals and so I think it was a perfectly understandable move, even more so when you consider that the alternative would have likely been losing our best player.

No problem.

Agreed that Bruno deserves to be the highest paid player at the club. However, his ultimatum came at a time where we were trying to normalise our pay structure. We still are. Bruno should have been told in no uncertain terms that these types of numbers are no longer the norm here.

It would have been a tough stance to take, but I think we took the easy way out.

 

[Shark]

Feels like everything aside from singing Bruno Fernandes. All of the managers have been shite and so have 80% of the players. Giving an 18 year old Rashford a chance was a good decision in theory regardless of how it panned out. In terms of managers Jose was probably the most logical choice.

 

[NZT-One]

It's sweet that you feel the need to jump in so regularly on behalf of other posters but I'm not getting into it with you. You live in grey spaces, leveling veiled criticisms at the player while maintaining just enough grey area to retreat back to your faux-objectivity fence when someone calls you out.

bolded bits:
- its a discussion forum, I react to posts of other posters - just like you, do you think it is sweet when you do it as well?
- not sure what "grey spaces" are but this is what I call nuanced standpoints, it is a very enriching concept, maybe you give it a try. For this thread, it would be very refreshing, because the current modus seems to be "all critics have the same standpoint than the latest worst critic in here"
- "veiled", "retreat", "call out" - do you even notice from what kind of selfrighteous point you enter the debate?

Agreed that Bruno deserves to be the highest paid player at the club. However, his ultimatum came at a time where we were trying to normalise our pay structure. We still are. Bruno should have been told in no uncertain terms that these types of numbers are no longer the norm here.

I share that viewpoint. I wouldn't even use that episode to criticize the player for since he and/or is agent is just trying to get out the best deal out for himself. I just think that a) it is odd to celebrate or defend the player for and b) to a degree telling that him pseudo-threatening to leave didn't even left a dent in the shiny armour he wears for a few fans. I think, it will end up being money invested rather well (in comparison) because he certainly is able to deliver to a good standard, is always available and is able to adapt but from an INEOS perspective, the only reason for it not being a bad idea is that the team doesn't have any other player with a comparable standard that would be able to pressure the club like that. But overall, I agree, the club certainly should have pushed back a little, trying to call the bluff. I mean, the market couldn't have been great, especially with wage demands and likely fee. PSG is on another train stylewise with the current manager, Bayern might have been an option but they probably would have pulled out from a certain point onwards fee-wise. Leaves Barca who were the only ones with any reported interest iirc.

It would have been a tough stance to take, but I think we took the easy way out.

Which is one the biggest issues for the club in my eyes. We see it over and over, extended contracts here, keeping a manager a little too long there, ask for weird money to prevent deals and so on. We are always going down the route of least resistance. And while that isn't the worst thing per se, doing it for the wrong reasons certainly is. But I guess, thats for another thread

 

[Pickle85]

bolded bits:
- its a discussion forum, I react to posts of other posters - just like you, do you think it is sweet when you do it as well?
- not sure what "grey spaces" are but this is what I call nuanced standpoints, it is a very enriching concept, maybe you give it a try. For this thread, it would be very refreshing, because the current modus seems to be "all critics have the same standpoint than the latest worst critic in here"
- "veiled", "retreat", "call out" - do you even notice from what kind of selfrighteous point you enter the debate?


I share that viewpoint. I wouldn't even use that episode to criticize the player for since he and/or is agent is just trying to get out the best deal out for himself. I just think that a) it is odd to celebrate or defend the player for and b) to a degree telling that him pseudo-threatening to leave didn't even left a dent in the shiny armour he wears for a few fans. I think, it will end up being money invested rather well (in comparison) because he certainly is able to deliver to a good standard, is always available and is able to adapt but from an INEOS perspective, the only reason for it not being a bad idea is that the team doesn't have any other player with a comparable standard that would be able to pressure the club like that. But overall, I agree, the club certainly should have pushed back a little, trying to call the bluff. I mean, the market couldn't have been great, especially with wage demands and likely fee. PSG is on another train stylewise with the current manager, Bayern might have been an option but they probably would have pulled out from a certain point onwards fee-wise. Leaves Barca who were the only ones with any reported interest iirc.

Which is one the biggest issues for the club in my eyes. We see it over and over, extended contracts here, keeping a manager a little too long there, ask for weird money to prevent deals and so on. We are always going down the route of least resistance. And while that isn't the worst thing per se, doing it for the wrong reasons certainly is. But I guess, thats for another thread

 

[Scandi Red]

Crazy that Bruno is top 3 (soon top 2) despite not even being in the PL for half of this timeline!

Fair play to Eriksen too. And to Trent for delivering these numbers as a fullback.

No surprises when it comes to De Bruyne and Salah. Both would make my all-time PL XI.

 

[LeonDion]

Crazy that Bruno is top 3 (soon top 2) despite not even being in the PL for half of this timeline!

Fair play to Eriksen too. And to Trent for delievering these numbers as a fullback.

No surprises when it comes to De Bruyne and Salah. Both would make my all-time PL XI.

KDB
Mins20708

Chance every 25 mins

G70 A117
——
Eriksen
Mins18151

Chance every 34 mins.

G54 A82
——
Bruno
Mins16329

Chance every 31.46 mins

G62 A50
——
TAA
Mins20522

Chance Every 39.92 mins

G17 A64
——-
Salah
Mins 23411

Chance Every 45.814

G182 A85

To me highlight how much freaks KDB and SALAH are. Such goals and assists plus huge creation from SALAH. KDB chance creation off the chart whilst also being functional in successful team. By far best players of last 10 years.

Eriksen is also standout. Different player to Bruno. Tempo controller with great chance creation. Massively impressive to do that and control.

Trent 64 assist from fullback is freakish also.

 

[Pickle85]

KDB
Mins20708

Chance every 25 mins

G70 A117
——
Eriksen
Mins18151

Chance every 34 mins.

G54 A82
——
Bruno
Mins16329

Chance every 31.46 mins

G62 A50
——
TAA
Mins20522

Chance Every 39.92 mins

G17 A64
——-
Salah
Mins 23411

Chance Every 45.814

G182 A85

To me highlight how much freaks KDB and SALAH are. Such goals and assists plus huge creation from SALAH. KDB chance creation off the chart whilst also being functional in successful team. By far best players of last 10 years.

Eriksen is also standout. Different player to Bruno. Tempo controller with great chance creation. Massively impressive to do that and control.

Trent 64 assist from fullback is freakish also.

I don't disagree with any of this but it's also worth bearing in mind that most of kdb's time he's been surrounded by some of the best attacking talents around and coached by one of the best coaches in a highly functional system.

 

[DWelbz19]

The substantial difference between De Bruyne and Fernandes to me has always been more simply player ability than systems issue. De Bruyne had pace and physicality and was able to drive and carry the ball in a way Fernandes has just never been able to. De Bruyne is/was also a much better crosser from wide. These two points in conjunction made him more of a creative threat all over the field whilst Fernandes has always been more of a straight vertical threat with chances. Otherwise, similar in most other aspects.

Just a case of the margins between a player being all time PL XI worthy and one who has ranged from good to top tier in his time here.

 

[LeonDion]

I don't disagree with any of this but it's also worth bearing in mind that most of kdb's time he's been surrounded by some of the best attacking talents around and coached by one of the best coaches in a highly functional system.

Two sides of that coin. KDB has had to be part of team function. On one side function can aid creative on flip side creation can hamper function. Pep has got rid of plenty good chance creators who jeopardize function.

 

[NZT-One]

I don't disagree with any of this but it's also worth bearing in mind that most of kdb's time he's been surrounded by some of the best attacking talents around and coached by one of the best coaches in a highly functional system.

 

[Pickle85]

Two sides of that coin. KDB has had to be part of team function. On one side function can aid creative on flip side creation can hamper function. Pep has got rid of plenty good chance creators who jeopardize function.

Kdb fits the team's system though. It's not like he's significantly had to adapt the way he plays to the team's system. I don't think that it's particularly controversial to say that Bruno would have looked even better in a settled system which he fit, alongside a group of world-class players. Unless you think he's the problem that's disrupted the team for the last five years.

 

[Cassidy]

The substantial difference between De Bruyne and Fernandes to me has always been more simply player ability than systems issue. De Bruyne had pace and physicality and was able to drive and carry the ball in a way Fernandes has just never been able to. De Bruyne is/was also a much better crosser from wide. These two points in conjunction made him more of a creative threat all over the field whilst Fernandes has always been more of a straight vertical threat with chances. Otherwise, similar in most other aspects.

Just a case of the margins between a player being all time PL XI worthy and one who has ranged from good to top tier in his time here.

Pretty much this. KDB just the better player and its pretty clear from their respective attributes. Nothing wrong with that though Ferdnandes is a really good player, but lacks that ability to drive the ball himself with pace and power. Both excellent passers and ball strikers, KDB probably edges the passing/crossing but not by a huge amount

 

[#07]

 

[Pickle85]

Pretty much this. KDB just the better player and its pretty clear from their respective attributes. Nothing wrong with that though Ferdnandes is a really good player, but lacks that ability to drive the ball himself with pace and power. Both excellent passers and ball strikers, KDB probably edges the passing/crossing but not by a huge amount

Agreed. Bruno is brilliant but has some weaknesses whereas it was really difficult, back in his pomp, to list skills kdb lacked (that were important for where he played).

 

[Scandi Red]

Wow. So Bruno will (almost definitely) make up 3 of the 5 spots. And the other 2 are Yorke from the legendary 99 team and C. Ronaldo from the legendary 07-09 period.

Yet another crazy stat.

 

[Red Rash]

Thought he was good today. In much better form recently than the start of the season.

 

[Godfather]

Very good performance again

 

[Bobski]

Best player on the pitch by miles today. Creative, won the ball a lot, progressed it responsibly, let down by the risible attackers.

 

[Fortitude]

Excellent performance. Must be sick and tired of teammates who are not on his level.

 

[Posh Red]

He’s currently the only reason to get excited watching United. Really needs some help out there in an attacking sense.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Gas the way he gets shit from some fans for flapping his arms and looking frustrated. Considering how many games he’s played with that shower of shite around him it’s a miracle he hasn’t literally pulled all of his hair out. If anything, his restraint is admirable.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Excellent performance. Must be sick and tired of teammates who are not on his level.

Have to imagine he is, yes.

 

[DWelbz19]

Probably deserved MOTM in a really shit game

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Best player again.

He's been our best player in almost every game for about 3 months.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Actually think these last 6-12 games he’s produced his best all round football for United. In terms of maturity, composure, picking the right passes etc. Stats not as good as 2020- 2021 but his all round footballing is at such a high level atm that it’s better than ever.

 

[LordSpud]

Sad to see a guy wasting his career here. But fair play to his loyalty

 

[harms]

I feel like he’s finally rectifying his big game bottler reputation that was at least partly deserved at some time. Another brilliant performance against top opponent (they were poor today but in general it’s still a big game). Best player on the pitch my some margin, a shame that our forwards can’t convert anything.