Bruno Fernandes against the Premier League Top 6 sides

MyOnlySolskjaer

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I think before I even start this discussion, I must stress that I think Bruno is fantastic and he's a massive factor in why we are where we are. I'm not here trying to make a Bruno bashing thread.

There may be a number of reasons why he may not be showing his quality in these games, but his performances alone have been very questionable, he's a player we're trusting with the free role and his decision making in these games have been pretty poor and we know the player he is and his lack of willingness to play the easy pass. Is this something we should be worried about for these games? We're already going into these games with conservative passers in Fred and McTominay so I'm not sure if he feels a need to overcompensate that with risky passes. What are your thoughts?
 
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WR10

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He's a gambler. It's why Pep turned him down. When your team (United of past 5 years) is notorious for not taking risks, you want a gambler on the team.

When you have limited possession, you don't want a gambler.

In big games, we have limited possession and he more often than not wastes our possessions on his ego.


It's ok though because he makes the difference against the remaining 14 teams in the league.
 

Delano

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I spent the whole game saying "he needs to calm down" "he needs take a touch" etc. I feel like in these games he's just trying too hard and his performance is suffering because of it.
 

Bwuk

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In general we’ve only played one creative player (Bruno) ahead of two hard working, but not exactly creative players.

The better sides can just deal with our sole threat better.

I also think we got it wrong today, he was too high and the distance between him and McFred wasn’t great.
 

cyberman

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4 goals v the top 6 is a great record? Unless im reading it wrong?
 

space

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He was pretty good against them at the end of last season no? this season none of our players have done that well versus the top 6 and i think its more to do with tactics. Even today he gave it away a fair bit but also did more than most. Both him and Paul were launching blind long balls
 

DWelbz19

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I remember someone making the point in another thread that — a bit like Fellaini with launching the ball at him because it’s a tried and tested method — when you have Fernandes in your side, you indulge him too much in these big games. Too many times our other players will just give him the ball to try a ridiculous long ball or long shot.

He needs to tone it down a lot in these bigger games, but equally our other players need to pick up more responsibility in them.
 

MasterCode

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I've noticed for a while now in multiple games when Bruno is being pressed and he's receiving the ball - he just hoofs it or tries something first time before the opposition get to him.

I don't think he is that confident trapping it under pressure or receiving it on the half turn.

Love Bruno, but his general play has to improve theres no getting away from that, he strikes me as having the sort of mentality to want to improve however so I'm not worried.

His general play is very poor at times tbh.
 

TMDaines

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I think before I even start this discussion, I must stress that I think Bruno is fantastic and he's a massive factor in why we are where we are. I'm not here trying to make a Bruno bashing thread.

There may be a number of reasons why he may not be showing his quality in these games, but his performances alone have been very questionable, he's a player we're trusting with the free role and his decision making in these games have been pretty poor and we know the player he is and his lack of willingness to play the easy pass. Is this something we should be worried about for these games? We're already going into these games with conservative passers in Fred and McTominay so I'm not sure if he feels a need to overcompensate that with risky passes. What are your thoughts?
I’ve been banging on about this in a number of other threads and elsewhere, but United cannot score in these games right now. Nine games during the pandemic against the Big Six and zero non-penalty goals, with only the three penalties for Bruno. He’s been consisntlet mediocre in these matches, but we tend to forget it by the one because he delivers in between.

I do think Bruno is a bit of flat track bully, which is what United have needed for a while, but I question whether he can be the main man relied upon consistently against better teams. He’s struggled too to make his mark at international level. He’s the player we need to sort Fulham and Sheffield United out in the next fortnight with a bit of a tenacious spark, but he might not be the one for every occasion. We shouldn’t be afraid of leaving him out. We thumped Leipzig last time he didn’t start.

I wouldn’t be averse to mixing it up a bit for the Liverpool FA Cup game and letting some others have the chance in the main creative role. Can’t afford to keep on blanking against Liverpool next Sunday again and then against Arsenal the following weekend.
 

TMDaines

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He was pretty good against them at the end of last season no? this season none of our players have done that well versus the top 6 and i think its more to do with tactics. Even today he gave it away a fair bit but also did more than most. Both him and Paul were launching blind long balls
In 11 games domestically against fellow Big 6 sides, Bruno has 3 penalty goals and 2 assists. We have only scored 7 goals across those games.
 

Bojan11

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You could write the same thread about all our attacking players this season against the other big 6 teams.
 

cyberman

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In 11 games domestically against fellow Big 6 sides, Bruno has 3 penalty goals and 2 assists. We have only scored 7 goals across those games.
Goal and assist Leicester, 2 goals and assist v Everton, goal v Spurs.. What am i missing?
In fact he has scored or assisted against 7 of the current top 10 this season
 

Leroy The Red

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I think the problem is that us/we as a team are pretty wank in the big games, it’s not just Bruno .
Its now one goal in five and that was a pen.

Last season we benefited from playing on the counter in these games and randomly outplaying City in the first half at the Etihad (how bizarre was that).
This season teams are paying us a lot more respect. Not sitting as high and allowing us more possession (city and Chelsea in particular deliberately allowed us the ball)
We are pretty wank at keeping possession and pulling people out of positions. In particular Fred and Mctominay.
We need to find a different way to play in these games and sharp because we can’t be writing ten games off a season.
 

Offside

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Yeah Bruno has no patience and is constantly trying things. Against top teams you get less of the play so the chances that something he tries will come off is slimmer. I hate the way he rushes things though when we could do with just passing the ball around their third. Maybe something he will learn to be fair. Certainly not terrible, even today he was the most dangerous player for either side.

We lack players who are technically reliable in tight areas with a killer first touch. Lose the ball far too often in the last third. I suspect this is maybe why Barcelona and Man City didn’t pull the trigger on Bruno.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I think the big teams are making sure he doesn't get the space. They know how important he is.
 

JJ12

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Him and Pogba were lamping Hollywood balls from one touchline to another (and failing) first half. Frustrating but it is who they are.
 

Random Task

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He's a gambler. It's why Pep turned him down. When your team (United of past 5 years) is notorious for not taking risks, you want a gambler on the team.

When you have limited possession, you don't want a gambler.

In big games, we have limited possession and he more often than not wastes our possessions on his ego.


It's ok though because he makes the difference against the remaining 14 teams in the league.
Think you just nailed it.
 

Ekeke

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He's a gambler. It's why Pep turned him down. When your team (United of past 5 years) is notorious for not taking risks, you want a gambler on the team.

When you have limited possession, you don't want a gambler.

In big games, we have limited possession and he more often than not wastes our possessions on his ego.


It's ok though because he makes the difference against the remaining 14 teams in the league.
De Bruyne was a gambler before City signed him too. Pep calmed him down. So thats not it
 

Wheato

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I think his performances against the top six sides last season, sort of blows your argument out of the water. Especially that ridiculous chip against City where he put Martial clean through on goal. What I do believe is that playing so many games close together as has happened this season and towards the end of last season, a player like him who gives everything, can burn themselves out. And in recent weeks we have seen that. I think it is time for VDB and Mata to start taking up the slack and give Bruno a little rest. I don't want to see Rashford, Bruno or Martial start against Fulham.
 

TMDaines

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Goal and assist Leicester, 2 goals and assist v Everton, goal v Spurs.. What am i missing?
In fact he has scored or assisted against 7 of the current top 10 this season
It’s pretty established who the Big 6 sides are unless you are being facetious. Leicester finishing fifth last season and Everton having a decent first half to this season doesn’t really affect that.
 

bosnian_red

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I think last season he did well in them. Did well vs Chelsea, City and then Spurs after lockdown. Its this season where he's been off
 

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He's a gambler. It's why Pep turned him down. When your team (United of past 5 years) is notorious for not taking risks, you want a gambler on the team.

When you have limited possession, you don't want a gambler.

In big games, we have limited possession and he more often than not wastes our possessions on his ego.


It's ok though because he makes the difference against the remaining 14 teams in the league.
I agree with this.
 

cyberman

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It’s pretty established who the Big 6 sides are unless you are being facetious. Leicester finishing fifth last season and Everton having a decent first half to this season doesn’t really affect that.
I genuinley didnt realise.
This season does affect things, the top 6 is the best top 6 in the league. To the point City have the grand total of 0 wins v the top 6.
Why is Chelsea harder to play against then Everton? Arsenal over Villa?
It makes no sense.
Traditional top 6 is a useless stat to bring up to be honest. Chelsea and Arsenal are not among the best top 6 sides in the league.
 

TMDaines

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Just added up the numbers at Understat. In the eight league games he has played against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal, he has a grand total of 1.25 non-pen xG and 1.07 xA.

That’s, erm, certainly a figure of such paucity that other talismanic midfielders that have their commitment called into question for.
 

redmanx

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I think his performances against the top six sides last season, sort of blows your argument out of the water. Especially that ridiculous chip against City where he put Martial clean through on goal. What I do believe is that playing so many games close together as has happened this season and towards the end of last season, a player like him who gives everything, can burn themselves out. And in recent weeks we have seen that. I think it is time for VDB and Mata to start taking up the slack and give Bruno a little rest. I don't want to see Rashford, Bruno or Martial start against Fulham.
Bruno has not only been our stand out player since joining last January but probably in the entire Prem. He's barely missed a game and has been outstanding more often than out.
 

TMDaines

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I genuinley didnt realise.
This season does affect things, the top 6 is the best top 6 in the league. To the point City have the grand total of 0 wins v the top 6.
Why is Chelsea harder to play against then Everton? Arsenal over Villa?
It makes no sense.
Traditional top 6 is a useless stat to bring up to be honest. Chelsea and Arsenal are not among the best top 6 sides in the league.
The league table means nothing until 38 games have been played, and even that it only does so for the purposes of determining the champions, European qualification and relegation. The Big 6 have dominated the last ten seasons overall and probably will the next ten too.
 

Andycoleno9

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His numbers vs top6 are bad because we play defensive in those games. Liverpool game (second half) was the most attacking half which we had this season against top 6.

So, not his fault. If it is then Martial, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba are also not big game players based on this season
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He was superb against man city and Chelsea last season but it’s been disappointment this season.

The only good game he had against against top side this season was PSG away, even his PSG home was shocking but that’s CL.

Ironically, last season and the PSG away were the games when we played 3 or 5 at the back formation. May be that’s the only way to make Bruno perform in big game? Probably not. I think the formation or tactic not the case, I think it’s down to him. Should have score today, that was the chance to break the curse, he had it. Let’s hope he or we can fix this issue.
 

Chief123

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I think before I even start this discussion, I must stress that I think Bruno is fantastic and he's a massive factor in why we are where we are. I'm not here trying to make a Bruno bashing thread.

There may be a number of reasons why he may not be showing his quality in these games, but his performances alone have been very questionable, he's a player we're trusting with the free role and his decision making in these games have been pretty poor and we know the player he is and his lack of willingness to play the easy pass. Is this something we should be worried about for these games? We're already going into these games with conservative passers in Fred and McTominay so I'm not sure if he feels a need to overcompensate that with risky passes. What are your thoughts?
Your best players don’t necessarily always have their best games against the best teams.

Mane, Salah and Firmino have only ever scored 1 goal each against us. Salah has literally been a passenger against Luke Shaw every time. That doesn’t mean they have been shit players. Big games are generally tight and limited in chances.

Bruno has a ridiculous amount of goals and assists without taking into account the amount he would have if our players actually finished the really easy ones.
 

Crashoutcassius

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yeah i dont think this is a genuine thing. the team has been poor in the biggest league games this season, I think we have moved on since the spurs and arsenal games and the city game was a wierd stalemate vs citys exceptional defence. we will hopefully see better performances vs spurs arsenal and chelsea in second games
 

jem

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It’s pretty established who the Big 6 sides are unless you are being facetious. Leicester finishing fifth last season and Everton having a decent first half to this season doesn’t really affect that.
Yeah but in the case of Leicester, I would say they are definitely a better team than Arsenal, Big 6 designation or not.
 

cyril C

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He's a gambler. It's why Pep turned him down. When your team (United of past 5 years) is notorious for not taking risks, you want a gambler on the team.

When you have limited possession, you don't want a gambler.

In big games, we have limited possession and he more often than not wastes our possessions on his ego.


It's ok though because he makes the difference against the remaining 14 teams in the league.
When every pass is 99% certainty, how creative this can be? How much space do you think a target man will get? Can you imagine a Top 6 team coming to a game without a game plan that mark out your target man?

As you stated, Bruno is doing a good job against the Rest 14, which is the most critical requirement for getting Bruno on board. Against Top 6 team or any big games, first of all you don't assume your opponent would sleep on the job, you need your entire team to play at 7 or above, you need more than 1 players to shine such that someone will contribute while Bruno is marked out.
 

rotherham_red

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I personally think him and Rashford are tired, mentally more than anything else. The both of them carried us at the start of the season and are a large part of why we are where we are at the moment. As a result of this, they are rushing their decisions and decision-making.

They badly need a rest (especially Rashford who is carrying a shoulder injury) but the problem is I just don't know where they are going to get it.