BVB (Bottlespielverein Borussia Dortmund) watch | You love to see it

[Sir Marcus]

It genuinely feels like some on here are more pleased with ‘winning’ some ridiculous argument with the ‘BDL’ than they are about signing Sancho!



It’s getting a bit silly to be honest - I’m going to Sancho threads hoping to see some great new compilation or quotes from players but instead it’s multiple posts about Dortmund apparently accepting €5M less than they claimed they would!

Time to move on and enjoy the prospect of the electric front line we now have…

As for Dortmund - they will be fine relative to expectations they set for themselves…

 

[hasanejaz88]

Its
Its not a knack. Their youngsters are really high profile players. Theyre just a neutral club who these highly rated youngsters can join and still have their choice of clubs around all leagues when they want to move up.

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

 

[NoLogo]

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

I just don't get all the raging about another team not willingly gift wrapping us one of their best players. Like what are people even angry about?

But I reckon there is still a lot of pent-up frustration about Dortmund being held up as some example of a well run club on here during their best times, mainly in a manner to shit on how shitty we are run.

 

[thegregster]

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

Definitely. Those opposition fans on the caf prove it.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

certainly Sancho, Haaland and Bellingham were. All three were signed to help their careers, and to use Dortmund as a stepping stone.

nothing wrong with that. Everyone is on the same page.

very few people will be frustrated at Dortmund - it’s their fans, and their brothers in arms from other German clubs who spout conjecture like they are facts on here. That’s where the frustration is aimed.

 

[cyberman]

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

Theyre not the young younsters that are championed by Dortmund fans though. Lewandowski must have been 22 when he joined for feck sake. Kagawa about that age as well. That 23 year old kid Aubameyang.
What even is this point? An etc tacked on as to pretend theres many more examples when the actual examples are piss poor?
The football world is a tiny place these days. All clubs know of the great young players and very few underappreciated youngsters are wating to be saved from obscurity. Dortmund arent any more or less special than other clubs who focus on youth. Hell look at Utds youth set up a mere couple of years after taking it seriously. City developed Foden and Sancho from an academy that was only redevloped a few years prior.
If Dortmund were so much better than rival clubs at spotting and devloping youth then theyd actually have them in their own academy. German football should look at England and follow their steps rather than trying to poach kids before they take the final step to the first team. Dortmund takes a lot of credit for other teams work.

 

[OutlawGER]

Why do people hate on Dortmund? Based on their finances and general circumstances they strike me as an incredibly well-run club. They also tend to play attractive football and have a knack for finding and getting top talent.

Still mad because they didn't sell last season for their demanded price.

 

[Zehner]

I just don't get all the raging about another team not willingly gift wrapping us one of their best players. Like what are people even angry about?

But I reckon there is still a lot of pent-up frustration about Dortmund being held up as some example of a well run club on here during their best times, mainly in a manner to shit on how shitty we are run.

It's really silly but I think that every big club has many fans like this. You can find many Dortmund and Bayern fans who behave similarly in German forums, too. I believe the only thing you can do about it is that you don't project their behaviour on the club they support or its fan base.

With a little distance it's almost funny. They are so obsessed with this whole BDL narrative that they believe even the non-BVB German users in here would be devastated by the transfer and that they can rub it into our faces now. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Sancho in the EPL and I hope it helps him to get the credit he deserves for his performances.

 

[hasanejaz88]

certainly Sancho, Haaland and Bellingham were. All three were signed to help their careers, and to use Dortmund as a stepping stone.

nothing wrong with that. Everyone is on the same page.

very few people will be frustrated at Dortmund - it’s their fans, and their brothers in arms from other German clubs who spout conjecture like they are facts on here. That’s where the frustration is aimed.

Dortmund now are not the same club they used to be a decade ago, that is for sure. They have access to a better pool off youngsters now, such as Sancho, Bellingham, Haaland and even Dembele. But that shouldn't discount how they got here, and it was through brilliant scouting and youth development (to @cyberman point as well).

In terms of youth development they've had Gotze come through alongsid Pulisic and now we see Moukoko and Reyna coming through as well. Hummels and Subotic were signed as 19 year olds and were key in taking them to the title and UCL final, Schmelzer was a youth product from that squad as well. Sven Bender was 19 when he joined, though he was more well known in Germany alongside his twin brother.

Before, they would have access to some of best youngsters in Germany but not to other parts of the world. Now ofcourse they have access to the best youngsters all over the globe but that shouldn't take away to the work that was done by this same management in taking them here, and therefore shouldn't discount their ability in finding unknown youth products now.

 

[Sphaero]

Hey man, they're not a selling club alright!

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

 

[Yagami]

Funny how the BDL members who were so smug last summer have gone quiet.

The double whammy of us knocking Germany out and getting Sancho at an absolute steal has knocked them for six.

 

[Mindhunter]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

Good post. Don’t bother trying to explain this as people already know. Yet they will still use the tag of being a selling club as a jibe in an argument.

People are still mad about Dortmund publicly setting the conditions for the transfer last year and not budging from them at all as if to show that they are not a selling club suddenly. The lack of flexibility and the smug attitude of German fans here who argued that somehow being inflexible is absolutely how Dortmund should conduct business has caused the frustration.

 

[hasanejaz88]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

As 'Arry would say, top top quality post!

 

[FatTails]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

With the money we’ve thrown around as a club over the past 10 years, if we were run half as well as Dortmund are, we’d have a lot more trophies to our name.

Don’t mind the idiots in our fanbase.

 

[FatTails]

Wish the best of luck to ours and Bayern's feeder club. Keep hold of Haaland till next year chaps.

How dare they, they should only sell to United and Chelsea, even if the player wants to stay in Germany

 

[AgentSmith]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

Excellent post.

 

[Godfather]

Why do people hate on Dortmund? Based on their finances and general circumstances they strike me as an incredibly well-run club. They also tend to play attractive football and have a knack for finding and getting top talent.

It has zero to do with those points mentioned above. They are a pretty well run club (well nowadays) and are developing talents well.

But they have acted like complete idiots when they sold Mkhi and Kagawa, acting like this was a step down from their club. Tongue in cheek yes but still completely unprofessional. Even last year when Sancho stayed just to be sold for a much cheaper price this summer they couldn't help themselves but post childish things a 14 year old wouldn't laugh about. Since then they can do one for me.

Had a soft spot for them years ago but they seem to get more and more bitter about their status in German and world football

 

[NYAS]

Spectacularly wrong?



So apparently, the total fee will be somewhere between €95m and €100m and United indeed isn't "flush with cash" so it wasn't unreasonable to question if you could pay so much. I also wasn't overly confident and always claimed I could be wrong. In fact, the quoted posts are 6 or 7 weeks old and I've posted numerous times that I believe the transfer will go through when the first reports about United's improved bids emerged.

The amount of tribalism in this thread is really cringeworthy. You guys don't even care whether you're right or wrong, it's just you against somebody you perceive as an enemy for whatever reasons.

I’m pretty sure you’re fully aware of Dortmund’s investor release stating the total fee is €85m, with no mention of add-ons, compared to when they announced Dembele’s sale where they specifically mentioned add-ons. But you still went with an article that says “some German sources claim...”

This is exactly the type of post that make people shit on the “BDL”. You said it yourself, you always claimed you could be wrong. So why not just take the loss on this one? Nobody gets everything right, and people would respect your posts more if you were humble once in a while, admit you’re wrong, as opposed to getting yourself dug into a hole and never conceding defeat, even when official facts prove you wrong.

 

[Sphaero]

Good post. Don’t bother trying to explain this as people already know. Yet they will still use the tag of being a selling club as a jibe in an argument.

People are still mad about Dortmund publicly setting the conditions for the transfer last year and not budging from them at all as if to show that they are not a selling club suddenly. The lack of flexibility and the smug attitude of German fans here who argued that somehow being inflexible is absolutely how Dortmund should conduct business has caused the frustration.

But that is not why that happened? They handled this transfer so transparantly as a concession to Sancho himself, which is why anyone who had any knowledge about the way Dortmund deals on the market saw an agreement between club and player coming from a mile away. How is the fact, that Sancho with three years left on contract was even given a public price tag and on the market a show to prove to not be a selling club anymore? It is the exact opposite. The existence of a gentlemen agreement in itself is proof that they are not part of the absolute elite as these clubs don´t even entertain such ideas. Them sticking to the publicised requirements was simply showing faith in Sancho keeping his end of the bargain which he eventually did. Not everything in football is about tribalism.

 

[Kostov]

How dare they, they should only sell to United and Chelsea, even if the player wants to stay in Germany

I'd rather they sell to us, or even better sign some contract and send our youngsters there to develop.

 

[arnie_ni]

I’m pretty sure you’re fully aware of Dortmund’s investor release stating the total fee is €85m, with no mention of add-ons, compared to when they announced Dembele’s sale where they specifically mentioned add-ons. But you still went with an article that says “some German sources claim...”

This is exactly the type of post that make people shit on the “BDL”. You said it yourself, you always claimed you could be wrong. So why not just take the loss on this one? Nobody gets everything right, and people would respect your posts more if you were humble once in a while, admit you’re wrong, as opposed to getting yourself dug into a hole and never conceding defeat, even when official facts prove you wrong.

Was waiting for someone to pull him on his made up figures.

You love to see it

 

[Castia]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

Quality post that.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

It has zero to do with those points mentioned above. They are a pretty well run club (well nowadays) and are developing talents well.

But they have acted like complete idiots when they sold Mkhi and Kagawa, acting like this was a step down from their club. Tongue in cheek yes but still completely unprofessional. Even last year when Sancho stayed just to be sold for a much cheaper price this summer they couldn't help themselves but post childish things a 14 year old wouldn't laugh about. Since then they can do one for me.

Had a soft spot for them years ago but they seem to get more and more bitter about their status in German and world football

This, except I don’t remember what they said when they sold Kagawa, but pretty much acting childish for no reason. Prior to that I actually like them. Also I went to their fan forums (last year to see it they have some other news regarding sancho), they talked down about Manchester United supporters, called us many names, and they felt like they have some type of superiority.

 

[Zehner]

I’m pretty sure you’re fully aware of Dortmund’s investor release stating the total fee is €85m, with no mention of add-ons, compared to when they announced Dembele’s sale where they specifically mentioned add-ons. But you still went with an article that says “some German sources claim...”

This is exactly the type of post that make people shit on the “BDL”. You said it yourself, you always claimed you could be wrong. So why not just take the loss on this one? Nobody gets everything right, and people would respect your posts more if you were humble once in a while, admit you’re wrong, as opposed to getting yourself dug into a hole and never conceding defeat, even when official facts prove you wrong.

But I do admit I was wrong. I didn't expect them to go down one cent, not even regarding the conditions but apparently they felt more pressure that Sancho might leave for a free in 2023 than I thought they would. Anyway, if you really believe they'd settle for a €85m fee without any bonuses, I find that pretty naive and there is little to no chance this is true. We've had a very similar discussion when the Havertz deal was confirmed in here and it's now more or less secure the deal will reach a total volume of ~€100m. Unless you believe that Dortmund suddenly changed their mind and switched from insisting on bonuses that see the fixed fee grow from €90m to €95m to accepting only €85m without any additional payments within days.

 

[NYAS]

But I do admit I was wrong. I didn't expect them to go down one cent, not even regarding the conditions but apparently they felt more pressure that Sancho might leave for a free in 2023 than I thought they would. Anyway, if you really believe they'd settle for a €85m fee without any bonuses, I find that pretty naive and there is little to no chance this is true. We've had a very similar discussion when the Havertz deal was confirmed in here and it's now more or less secure the deal will reach a total volume of ~€100m. Unless you believe that Dortmund suddenly changed their mind and switched from insisting on bonuses that see the fixed fee grow from €90m to €95m to accepting only €85m without any additional payments within days.

So...you’re saying Dortmund are lying to their investors? You think Dortmund are telling their investors, that they are receiving less money than they actually might receive?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

But I do admit I was wrong. I didn't expect them to go down one cent, not even regarding the conditions but apparently they felt more pressure that Sancho might leave for a free in 2023 than I thought they would. Anyway, if you really believe they'd settle for a €85m fee without any bonuses, I find that pretty naive and there is little to no chance this is true. We've had a very similar discussion when the Havertz deal was confirmed in here and it's now more or less secure the deal will reach a total volume of ~€100m. Unless you believe that Dortmund suddenly changed their mind and switched from insisting on bonuses that see the fixed fee grow from €90m to €95m to accepting only €85m without any additional payments within days.

let’s wait and see. Very definitive statement.

It’s normal to be wrong, we all are a lot of time.

I’ll speculate on what’s happening, but ultimately I only believe what’s is actually reported by clubs - 90% of what’s reported is bollocks.

 

[Zehner]

So...you’re saying Dortmund are lying to their investors? You think Dortmund are telling their investors, that they are receiving less money than they actually might receive?

No, I'm not. I'm no expert on disclosure obligations but the important part for me is that those who should be (the reliable media outlets like The Athletic, Sueddetusche or Sky) don't seem to think the ad hoc statement rules out that there will be bonus payments. Dortmund could've chosen to let the bonus part out for various reasons - maybe because they aren't finally negotiated or they simply don't have to.

However, I also believe that there has been much confusion regarding the reported fees being negotiated or demanded due to the fact City hold a sell on clause apparently worth 15% of every Euro above the sum Dortmund initially paid for Sancho (~€8m). Now even if there won't be any bonuses, the question remains if Dortmund is reporting the fee that United paid them or the fee that Sancho cost in total? Because if they actually reported what goes straightly into their pockets, this would mean the total sum paid by United is somewhere around €101m. And I imagine the sum they have to report is subject to the contractual structure: Does United pay Dortmund and City seperately or only Dortmund with them paying out City?

So trying to read anything out of those ad hoc messages is pointless and speculative, if you ask me. But some of the insiders proved to be on the right track throughout the saga and they almost exclusively reported that Dortmund asked for bonuses that see the fee rise to €95m. And Dortmund suddenly dropping their bonus demands completely on top of lowering the base demand by €5m seems very unlikely to me. So either this really had something to do with City being involved and the reported asking prices included those fees or there will be bonuses.

 

[Mindhunter]

But that is not why that happened? They handled this transfer so transparantly as a concession to Sancho himself, which is why anyone who had any knowledge about the way Dortmund deals on the market saw an agreement between club and player coming from a mile away. How is the fact, that Sancho with three years left on contract was even given a public price tag and on the market a show to prove to not be a selling club anymore? It is the exact opposite. The existence of a gentlemen agreement in itself is proof that they are not part of the absolute elite as these clubs don´t even entertain such ideas. Them sticking to the publicised requirements was simply showing faith in Sancho keeping his end of the bargain which he eventually did. Not everything in football is about tribalism.

I agree it isn’t black or white but agreeing in principle to let him move and then setting an aggressive price tag as well as an arbitrary deadline with no flexibility whatsoever is a show of power over the player. You won’t agree with me and that’s fine.

No transfer in history has been completed by paying exactly what the selling club wanted and by the date they wanted it. It’s futile to argue that Dortmund didn’t want to sell Sancho last year because of how it looked. They didn’t want to give the impression that they sell their best players so they did the next best thing - ask for an unrealistic sum and didn’t budge from it at all and claimed the moral high ground by saying they were willing to let him go if the conditions were met.

This year their whole demeanour changed when they realised that the player is unhappy and they risk losing a huge windfall if they continue maintain their stance.

 

[Zehner]

I agree it isn’t black or white but agreeing in principle to let him move and then setting an aggressive price tag as well as an arbitrary deadline with no flexibility whatsoever is a show of power over the player. You won’t agree with me and that’s fine.

No transfer in history has been completed by paying exactly what the selling club wanted and by the date they wanted it. It’s futile to argue that Dortmund didn’t want to sell Sancho last year because of how it looked. They didn’t want to give the impression that they sell their best players so they did the next best thing - ask for an unrealistic sum and didn’t budge from it at all and claimed the moral high ground by saying they were willing to let him go if the conditions were met.

This year their whole demeanour changed when they realised that the player is unhappy and they risk losing a huge windfall if they continue maintain their stance.

There have been enough transfers through release clauses. The gentlemen's agreement was a lite version of a release clause. And the price tag isn't really aggressive considering Havertz went for €80m + €20m in the same window despite being a lesser talent. One might even argue that €120m is a bargain in comparison to Joao Felix or Ousmane Dembele. Dortmund (IMO rightfully) see Sancho in the Mbappe mould and he moved for €180m.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yea mate, I'm sure Lewandowski, Hummels, Aubamayeng, Pulisic, Kagawa etc were all known throughout Europe as the best youngsters in the would when Dortmund signed them

Seriously, lots of pent up frustration from last season coming out now on this forum. It's as if Bundesliga fans were living in those heads rent free all this time. Can't even just be happy that a major signed has been completed, and another hopefully with Varane!

You certainly signed up to a Manchester United forum rent free mate.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I just don't get all the raging about another team not willingly gift wrapping us one of their best players. Like what are people even angry about?

But I reckon there is still a lot of pent-up frustration about Dortmund being held up as some example of a well run club on here during their best times, mainly in a manner to shit on how shitty we are run.

True. But I don't think any one can deny we have been a terribly run club.

 

[Sir Marcus]

All this discussion about if the fee was x or x+5M is really quite sad, particularly when the only purpose of the discussion seems to be winning an internet argument.

Leave it be already! The finer details will probably never be revealed to us and even if they were both sides of the ‘argument’ will refuse to accept it.





On the topic of Dortmund - I expect Bellingham to have a great season next year.

 

[tenpoless]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

Okay Dortmund watch. Bundesliga Solidarity Group unite! you love to see it.

 

[Zehner]

All this discussion about if the fee was x or x+5M is really quite sad, particularly when the only purpose of the discussion seems to be winning an internet argument.

Leave it be already! The finer details will probably never be revealed to us and even if they were both sides of the ‘argument’ will refuse to accept it.





On the topic of Dortmund - I expect Bellingham to have a great season next year.

Probably true. Still think the details of such deals are interesting, especially if such things like the sell on fee etc. are included. Just proves that there are many perspectives and provides an explamation how the reported numbers in the media can vary so much

 

[mancan92]

I just don't get all the raging about another team not willingly gift wrapping us one of their best players. Like what are people even angry about?

But I reckon there is still a lot of pent-up frustration about Dortmund being held up as some example of a well run club on here during their best times, mainly in a manner to shit on how shitty we are run.

But we are run like shit....

 

[TheReligion]

Spectacularly wrong?



So apparently, the total fee will be somewhere between €95m and €100m and United indeed isn't "flush with cash" so it wasn't unreasonable to question if you could pay so much. I also wasn't overly confident and always claimed I could be wrong. In fact, the quoted posts are 6 or 7 weeks old and I've posted numerous times that I believe the transfer will go through when the first reports about United's improved bids emerged.

The amount of tribalism in this thread is really cringeworthy. You guys don't even care whether you're right or wrong, it's just you against somebody you perceive as an enemy for whatever reasons.

The deal for Sancho is £73m spread over 5 years. Fixed fee with no add ons.

It's been confirmed by everyone including Dortmund.

United have got a very good price when you consider it's cheaper than Havertz and equal with what Arsenal paid for Pepe. Even Dortmund said they aren't happy about the money and would have preferred he stayed however he'd explicitly requested United and they didn't want to stand in his way.

 

[Zehner]

The deal for Sancho is £73m spread over 5 years. Fixed fee with no add ons.

It's been confirmed by everyone including Dortmund.

United have got a very good price when you consider it's cheaper than Havertz and equal with what Arsenal paid for Pepe. Even Dortmund said they aren't happy about the money and would have preferred he stayed however he'd explicitly requested United and they didn't want to stand in his way.

Of course they aren't happy, they didn't want to sell him But they haven't confirmed that there will be no bonuses, at least not to my knowledge.

The only information regarding the fee from Dortmund's side is the ad hoc message in which they named a fix sum but didn't give any information on bonuses in contrast to the Dembele message. But that can have other reasons. The kicker that is widely regarded as the most reliable source in Germany for instance reported that there are bonuses relying on very probable conditions.

But the price of course is good regardless of the bonuses. Excellent signing for United.

 

[Sphaero]

I agree it isn’t black or white but agreeing in principle to let him move and then setting an aggressive price tag as well as an arbitrary deadline with no flexibility whatsoever is a show of power over the player. You won’t agree with me and that’s fine.

No transfer in history has been completed by paying exactly what the selling club wanted and by the date they wanted it. It’s futile to argue that Dortmund didn’t want to sell Sancho last year because of how it looked. They didn’t want to give the impression that they sell their best players so they did the next best thing - ask for an unrealistic sum and didn’t budge from it at all and claimed the moral high ground by saying they were willing to let him go if the conditions were met.

This year their whole demeanour changed when they realised that the player is unhappy and they risk losing a huge windfall if they continue maintain their stance.

You are right, I don´t, because I don´t consider a quasi release clause a power move by the club over the player, but rather giving agency away under certain circumstances. You can call the deadline abritrary all you want, from Dortmunds side that date made perfect sense (start of the pre season). Furthermore deadlines are the absolute norm when it comes to nonmandatory agreements be it in vocal (like this gentlemens agreement) or written form (a proper release clause). It is the one line of protection the clubs have from losing vital players too late to get a proper replacement.

The entire second paragraph is speculation and the only thing I can really put up against that is that the gentlemen agreement between Sancho and Dortmund has been confirmed by head officials several times now and has been pointed at by pretty much any reliable reporter as the driving force of the saga. Moral high ground has nothing to with this, just two parties eventually holding up their end of a bargain, which is why Jadon Sancho will be fondly remembered by the supporter base and club and Sancho will look back to his four years at Dortmund with a lot of satification and probably never utter a single negative word about the club or his time there. That relationship was a major success story and Manchester United will now reap benefits from that. Why not just be happy to have gotten such an amazing player? I don´t get it.

Okay Dortmund watch. Bundesliga Solidarity Group unite! you love to see it.

Well done on putting a +1 on your post count while contributing something worthwhile to the topic

Jesus fecking christ....

 

[Ali Dia]

You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.

Good post. Arguably our best player of the modern era used us a stepping stone and our greatest manager ever was perfectly happy to indulge him. Big deal. What has Pogba been trying to do for the last few years? He’s not trying to move down! If you guys eventually win a few leagues and CLs you’ll be able to hold onto more players. I don’t get the smug bit from our fans here at all. You just sold a player for 10 times what you bought him for. Nice work. Onto the replacement.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Thanks Dortmund, I've always liked the club since the 80s.