Can Bruno continue in the same position with Ronaldo in our 1st xi?

[Abraxas]

I don't buy that Bruno is a massive problem at the moment. He should be playing high, ideally he should be the main forward point of contact for our two in midfield. I don't see any sense in having him lateral or really close to our two holders.

If anything it's probably just a slight adjustment so he finds space better, but I think he's trying, his work-rate is good. Maybe there's more of an issue with our holding mids and our two centre backs, all of which have the capability of distributing the ball but are playing too deliberately, or in some cases making quick decisions simply isn't their forte.

Also, Bruno isn't spectacular in the build up. We have 5 blokes behind him (Maguire, Varane, 2 mids, and Shaw) that are probably just as competent. Less likely to find a killer pass perhaps, but I think you want him trying them close to goal anyway, not from the half way line.

However what I would say is it's about thinking on your feet. The above is a general idea, but he has to recognise periods in games where we have lost control and need help further back. This should be natural to a midfielder. His role may be more skewed to attacking play but he has to be adaptable.

 

[Pronewbie]

If Ronaldo is going to start every game then Bruno won’t be the only player who has to adjust his game. Not when you consider Ronaldo’s stats in terms of pressing. Although Bruno will be almost certainly denied the penalties and free-kicks he’s been so prolific at for us so far. And does it really make sense to ask a player who’s been at the heart of everything good we’ve done in the last two years to change the way he plays to accommodate a signing who is inevitably going to be on the decline? (if not now, soon)

Now the initial euphoria has worn off I’m moving more and more to the @Top point of view that this signing creates more problems for Ole than it solves.

A world class DM would certainly help as that would allow Pogba to start alongside him. In absence of that, I can see one of Bruno / Pogba being used more sparingly as Ole sticks with McFred.

That said, I think it's great to have competition amongst our attacking players. It's been awhile since we've had that depth in quality.

We really need that DM though. Someone who can lead and instruct his partner into taking better defensive positions. I miss Keano and Carrick so much.

 

[Eckers99]

Looking at the void between defence and attack at the weekend, it might actually help us, as Bruno can drop into the hole and connect the 2. Like others have said, it looked like we were playing without a midfield at times and that can and should change now.

 

[roonster09]

I felt as though his natural instincts and where he'd like to run were being curtailed because all of that space belongs to Ronaldo and there wasn't the time and focus put into catering to Bruno's game (because Ronaldo) to get him ticking correctly.

It's such a small passage of time and rather than work out the issue, Bruno simply got pushed to the side. He didn't look natural or comfortable to me at the Euros - most certainly not the Bruno United has known, anyway.

I don't know if it's considered reducing his own game to facilitate Ronaldo's, but I do think he has to learn how to orbit him and still be effective. He can, for example, learn how to run in behind Ronaldo for the invariable scrambles and loose balls, or work quickly to exploit the trails of the runs Ronaldo makes, but with Ronaldo on the pitch, Bruno cannot be the lead, as in, he has to react to what Ronaldo instigates rather than force the play himself, which he's had free rein with here.

Yes, Bruno was pushed to right wing in the Euros, at least in 1 or 2 games and it didn't work at all.

Also I don't think we should worry or analyze much on how Portugal set up. It's a national team where they barely get time to work together. Portugal makes us look like peak Barca when it comes to team work, that's how disjointed they are.

Bruno won't be the main man, that's for sure. Not everything will flow through him. Like any other player, he will have to play to accommodate Ronaldo, which makes sense as he will be our best attacker. Also I feel too much is made about "Bruno is a SS/CF". He isn't and never was.

Btw few interesting passmaps.

Their first game when they won 3-0 vs Hungary. Their only win in Euros. Bruno played close to Ronaldo and in very advanced position.

Spoiler: Passmap

Vs Germany. He is close to B.Silva who played as RW.

Spoiler: Passmap

This is vs Netherlands in 2018, Bruno played as attacking mid behind Ronaldo.

Spoiler: Pass map

 

[Deery]

Nothing will change Ronaldo will play as a number 9 just like Cavani is now and Bruno will do the same thing as when he and Cavani are on the pitch only with Ronaldo.

 

[UpWithRivers]

First problem is that Ole does not do tactics like this. He wants Bruno as a 10 and will not shift him no matter what. Secondly even though everyone said he can play midfield I have never seen him do it. He played deeper for Portugal and was sht. Thirdly his strongest attributes are scoring and assisting. Take that away and he is an average midfielder at best.

If we do this then everyone will call him sht and want him sold by summer. I love Bruno but I have always thought that tactically he is a problem. Hardly any teams play with a 10 and thats for good reasons. Our midfield is sht at the moment but one of the reasons is that we have one less body in midfield. Pogba and Bruno in midfield will never work. Its on the same lines of thinking Lindelof or WB can play in midfield. And Im talking season long. Yes in odd games they would destroy the sht out of the opposition and everyone will think they are great but over a season they will be overun more times than not.

 

[izec]

People live in cuckoo land if they believe we will line up with Bruno and Pogba in midfield, with one of Fred/McT behind.This isnt fantasy football or Pep.

Ole is cautious for a reason

 

[Ayoba]

It is a worry certainly, not least because do I trust our coaching staff to figure out a solution for this? Unfortunately the pessimist in me doesn't think so, but let's see.

As crazy as this sounds, if we do play a front three of Sancho, Ronaldo and Greenwood then I think one of Pogba or Bruno will need to be dropped as we will most certainly need Fred and Mctominay in midfield. As we've seen against wolves (or any team that presses us), having a double pivot of both Fred and Pogba just doesn't work and we're so exposed. In theory Bruno should be able to adapt and play a little deeper because he's certainly got the workrate to help out defensively but I'm not sure how effective he will be and whether that will completely neutralise his attacking output.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I would think part of the reason why Bruno has played so far up this season has been our lack of a clear no. 9? Granted Greenwood has been playing, but more often than not he is pulling out to a flank while Bruno has been tasked with making runs through the back line (which has worked out quite well). Once we get a clear no. 9 I think Bruno will play from a bit deeper in the field.

He’s done it since he came here though. People are starting to clock it now because of that picture of everyone playing on the last man but that’s what we did all of last season as well.

 

[Fortitude]

Yes, Bruno was pushed to right wing in the Euros, at least in 1 or 2 games and it didn't work at all.

Also I don't think we should worry or analyze much on how Portugal set up. It's a national team where they barely get time to work together. Portugal makes us look like peak Barca when it comes to team work, that's how disjointed they are.

Bruno won't be the main man, that's for sure. Not everything will flow through him. Like any other player, he will have to play to accommodate Ronaldo, which makes sense as he will be our best attacker. Also I feel too much is made about "Bruno is a SS/CF". He isn't and never was.

Btw few interesting passmaps.

Their first game when they won 3-0 vs Hungary. Their only win in Euros. Bruno played close to Ronaldo and in very advanced position.

Spoiler: Passmap

Vs Germany. He is close to B.Silva who played as RW.

Spoiler: Passmap

This is vs Netherlands in 2018, Bruno played as attacking mid behind Ronaldo.

Spoiler: Pass map

Thanks for the maps; I can't honestly say I paid any attention to Bruno before he came here and don't have any recollection of him in that 2018 game you put up; as far as I recall, @SportingCP96 posted a lot about Bruno being a proper 2-way CM and AM when we were linked to him, and his game seems to have modified and become more attacking and singularly focused since then.

I feel there's a distinction, between an AM who works forward and a SS who works backward; Bruno has become the latter and that's why he's so disconnected from midfield with such frequency - he has to go backwards to help them, which is obviously sub-optimal when the midfield is under the cosh and struggling to link play. Bruno does a ridiculous amount of work for the position he's in (too much), but it's not particularly beneficial because he's not in the thick of the action when he needs to be and joins it too late, which is where we see him wasting energy scrambling all over trying to get involved.

I see him likened to De Bruyne on here, but he's more Lampard or Deli Alli (when he was flying) than anyone else seen in England in the intervening years, for me. He blurs the lines and some might call them midfielders whilst others will state they're forwards who worked backward. Bruno's absence from our build ups and the fact he's the one on the end of so many of the plays - as opposed to following in behind them ala Lampard with Drogba or Dele Alli with Kane - tells a story in itself.

When I think about the current iteration of Bruno, and the way Ronaldo plays, it just comes to mind that something (Bruno) has got to give and it's probably more a discussion of how Bruno compromises that I'm thinking of - whether that be by just sitting deeper initially, or moving off to the side in a different system.

 

[Highfather_24]

Bruno doesnt work excellently with them, he in fact impede their space, you will often see them taking a wider role while he stays central(and this even true for Cavani). He is somewhat selfish in that regard.
Additionally, he affects our midfield passing options by playing that high.
The point is we have catered to his needs but I doubt Ronaldo will take that seeing how it all went for him with the Portugal team and resulting in him not playing.

Bruno works well with Cavani and Martial, they both played very well alongside Bruno, and so has Bruno alongside them. During project restart Martial's best form came alongside Bruno, and in the 2nd half of last season during Cavani's form, he played with Bruno as well. I have never seen Bruno impede anyone's space.

Whether he affects our midfield options by staying high is irrelavant to whether he is playing alongside Ronaldo or Martial.

Ronaldo also doesnt just stay fixed centrally, he also likes to roam to the wider areas cutting in from the left and right.

 

[Highfather_24]

One of the reasons Ronaldo came here might be to develop a good partnership with Bruno, keeping the world cup in mind.

 

[roonster09]

Thanks for the maps; I can't honestly say I paid any attention to Bruno before he came here and don't have any recollection of him in that 2018 game you put up; as far as I recall, @SportingCP96 posted a lot about Bruno being a proper 2-way CM and AM when we were linked to him, and his game seems to have modified and become more attacking and singularly focused since then.

I feel there's a distinction, between an AM who works forward and a SS who works backward; Bruno has become the latter and that's why he's so disconnected from midfield with such frequency - he has to go backwards to help them, which is obviously sub-optimal when the midfield is under the cosh and struggling to link play. Bruno does a ridiculous amount of work for the position he's in (too much), but it's not particularly beneficial because he's not in the thick of the action when he needs to be and joins it too late, which is where we see him wasting energy scrambling all over trying to get involved.

I see him likened to De Bruyne on here, but he's more Lampard or Deli Alli (when he was flying) than anyone else seen in England in the intervening years, for me. He blurs the lines and some might call them midfielders whilst others will state they're forwards who worked backward. Bruno's absence from our build ups and the fact he's the one on the end of so many of the plays - as opposed to following in behind them ala Lampard with Drogba or Dele Alli with Kane - tells a story in itself.

When I think about the current iteration of Bruno, and the way Ronaldo plays, it just comes to mind that something (Bruno) has got to give and it's probably more a discussion of how Bruno compromises that I'm thinking of - whether that be by just sitting deeper initially, or moving off to the side in a different system.

It will be interesting to see how things will change when Ronaldo plays. I don't see us changing much, for some reason Ole is big fan of 4-2-3-1.

Also one big change with Ronaldo compared to Martial/Cavani would be number of shots and also how our other players will be pressured to find Ronaldo. Cavani and Martial don't shoot much (close to 0) from outside the box or if they are not in good position. Ronaldo will shoot from any distance and from any angle. So other players like Rahsford, Bruno should be more economical when it comes to picking the moments to shoot. We can't have 3-4 players shooting all the time from outside the box.

Also I disagree on the role you described for Bruno or how Bruno plays. Maybe we see it differently. On the wider point, I think it would help team if everyone, especially in midfield plays close to each other to gain numerical advantage, create passing lanes. But this needs lot of work on training ground and tbh (and with all due respect to Ole) we are not the team that is geared towards building play in slow and patient methods where every player moves as a team and as a unit. We are very basic team when it comes to combinations.

One more problem in our team is, if we play McFred, we won't have player who can spread the play. If we play Pogba - Fred/McT we lose the defensive stability and more often that not we lose midfield battle. We should sign a good CM who will improve this team, someone who is defensively good and also comfortable in possession.

 

[E-mal]

Isn't that because he played deeper and Renato Sanches made all the attacking runs when both were on the pitch? Bruno was creating chances from deeper position (or lets say he was hoofing the ball into the box)

Not really, Sanches was the one that replaced him.
They never started a game together. Sanches played deeper and more disciplined which gave them more control.
It started as Danilo, Moutinho and Fernandes in the first two games but subsequently Sanches replaced Fernandes in the remaining games and they were a better outfit with better control.
People need to accept he is more a forward than a midfielder, he will be pretty average if played deeper and our only deep playmaker of any competence is Pogba.

I am pretty sure he is going to be very average if we asked him to play a more disciplined role that will benefit the team more.

 

[roonster09]

Not really, Sanches was the one that replaced him.
They never started a game together. Sanches played deeper and more disciplined which gave them more control.
It started as Danilo, Moutinho and Fernandes in the first two games but subsequently Sanches replaced Fernandes in the remaining games and they were a better outfit with better control.
People need to accept he is more a forward than a midfielder, he will be pretty average if played deeper and our only deep playmaker of any competence is Pogba.

I am pretty sure he is going to be very average if we asked him to play a more disciplined role that will benefit the team more.

They didn't start together but they played together.

People should understand what a forward is and what attacking midfielder with high work rate is.

 

[Devil may care]

He was running parallel with Cavani at times against Wolves, doubt Ronnie will care for that, the other issue is with the state of our midfield we need him a bit deeper to recieve the ball and offer the easy out ball.

 

[#07]

In answer to the OP, yes, and it will be necessary also.

Juventus have in recent seasons played a front two with Ronaldo, because he likes to have someone relatively close to him to play off of. Bruno will just fill the role that Dybala played for Ronaldo. In fact, IMO, he'll do it better. Bruno presses better and he runs off the ball better than Dybala.

Also, lets not act like Bruno doesn't often play as a #10 behind Ronaldo's #9 for Portugal. There will be very little adjustment needed for either.

 

[E-mal]

First problem is that Ole does not do tactics like this. He wants Bruno as a 10 and will not shift him no matter what. Secondly even though everyone said he can play midfield I have never seen him do it. He played deeper for Portugal and was sht. Thirdly his strongest attributes are scoring and assisting. Take that away and he is an average midfielder at best.

If we do this then everyone will call him sht and want him sold by summer. I love Bruno but I have always thought that tactically he is a problem. Hardly any teams play with a 10 and thats for good reasons. Our midfield is sht at the moment but one of the reasons is that we have one less body in midfield. Pogba and Bruno in midfield will never work. Its on the same lines of thinking Lindelof or WB can play in midfield. And Im talking season long. Yes in odd games they would destroy the sht out of the opposition and everyone will think they are great but over a season they will be overun more times than not.

My thoughts exactly.
In many ways he mirrors our chaotic approach to games. We are a high risk high reward team with no specific way towards attacking pattern and that's because Bruno plays that way, more instinctive than well thought out pattern.

To get a semblance of an effective midfield, we might have to get two box to box midfielders that are both exceptional defensively and attacking wise.
Pogba and Bruno will not work consistently, intact I might have to say Pogba is more adaptable to a midfield 3 in a 433 than Bruno.
There is only one way Bruno plays and is in a 4411, no any other way as far as am concerned.

 

[E-mal]

They didn't start together but they played together.

People should understand what a forward is and what attacking midfielder with high work rate is.

Bruno came in when they where chasing the game against Belgium and that was that.

 

[roonster09]

Bruno came in when they where chasing the game against Belgium and that was that.

Against Germany Sanches came on at half time and Bruno was subbed out after 20 mins
Against France, Bruno came on at 70th min and Sanches was subbed out at end of the game.
Against Belgium, Bruno came on at 55th min and Sanches was subbed after 78 mins.

 

[E-mal]

In answer to the OP, yes, and it will be necessary also.

Juventus have in recent seasons played a front two with Ronaldo, because he likes to have someone relatively close to him to play off of. Bruno will just fill the role that Dybala played for Ronaldo. In fact, IMO, he'll do it better. Bruno presses better and he runs off the ball better than Dybala.

Also, lets not act like Bruno doesn't often play as a #10 behind Ronaldo's #9 for Portugal. There will be very little adjustment needed for either.

The problem is we dont have the midfield to play that way and FYI, Juventus where not better for it.
I am pretty sure we will be here mid season still complaining about how poor our midfield is and how easy it is to dominate us, because teams hardly play a two in midfield anymore.
Additionally, we will be playing Rashford and Greenwood who are actually forwards themselves on either side of Ronaldo, further isolating the midfield two. It will end up being a 4-2-4 based on what you just said.

 

[RUCK4444]

I’m not sure if we are overthinking this, Bruno just needs to play between the lines and do what he does best, provide assists.

Absolutely no reason why having Ronaldo on the pitch compared to Cavani makes any difference imo.

Edit: Hes been playing higher up in the absence of Cavani. Just drop back into no 10 and play behind Ronnie as the striker.

 

[#07]

The problem is we dont have the midfield to play that way and FYI, Juventus where not better for it.
I am pretty sure we will be here mid season still complaining about how poor our midfield is and how easy it is to dominate us, because teams hardly play a two in midfield anymore.
Additionally, we will be playing Rashford and Greenwood who are actually forwards themselves on either side of Ronaldo, further isolating the midfield two. It will end up being a 4-2-4 based on what you just said.

I mostly agree with you. However, in most games we will win just by sheer quality. It's going back to what we did during the last few years under Sir Alex.

Last season we mostly fell away in the title race because we dropped stupid points. With Varane, and DeGea starting to look his old self, that should happen less. So you bank on us riding out the storm and someone coming up with some individual brilliance, like Van Persie did so many times in that 2012-13 season, in most weeks.

Yes the midfield is a problem, I've said so myself. However, with the attacking talent we have we should score most weeks. So then you're just asking: Can we keep enough clean sheets to steal points we probably shouldn't. I reckon the answer is yes. Will that be enough? Dunno. But with Ronaldo you always have a chance.

 

[Infra-red]

Ronaldo will simply replace Cavani/Martial/Greenwood as the #9.

I doubt Bruno's role will be altered very much in open play. The only thing we'll change is that Ronny will be on most/all direct free kicks & penalties (and Shaw/Bruno will look for him in indirect set pieces).

 

[E-mal]

I mostly agree with you. However, in most games we will win just by sheer quality. It's going back to what we did during the last few years under Sir Alex.

Last season we mostly fell away in the title race because we dropped stupid points. With Varane, and DeGea starting to look his old self, that should happen less. So you bank on us riding out the storm and someone coming up with some individual brilliance, like Van Persie did so many times in that 2012-13 season, in most weeks.

Yes the midfield is a problem, I've said so myself. However, with the attacking talent we have we should score most weeks. So then you're just asking: Can we keep enough clean sheets to steal points we probably shouldn't. I reckon the answer is yes. Will that be enough? Dunno. But with Ronaldo you always have a chance.

This is more like trying to patch up and making something up for a brief spell of success just like we did in 2012/13 season.

It seems we dont have a blueprint on how we want to play long term and with how consistent and ruthless city under Pep are, added to the solidity and efficiency of Chelsea and liverpool, we might have to do more than just expecting the defence and attack to always come through for us.
Football has significantly changed since the days of Sir Alex, smaller teams are more technically and tactically drilled now and without a consistent way of playing, we will come short.
In summary, we are not a solid outfit and that has more to do with our midfield combinations and the tactical naivety of our coaching staff.
Let's hope you're right.

 

[E-mal]

Ronaldo will simply replace Cavani/Martial/Greenwood as the #9.

I doubt Bruno's role will be altered very much in open play. The only thing we'll change is that Ronny will be on most/all direct free kicks & penalties (and Shaw/Bruno will look for him in indirect set pieces).

If Bruno's role remain thesame, we wont compete. We will lose games against the likes of Wolves and Southampton who look tactically more drilled. We cant luck our way to the title with the way we play. We appear disjointed.

 

[Infra-red]

If Bruno's role remain thesame, we wont compete. We will lose games against the likes of Wolves and Southampton who look tactically more drilled. We cant luck our way to the title with the way we play. We appear disjointed.

I agree. It's one of the reasons why I don't expect a title challenge.

 

[smi11ie]

Bruno will do what Ronaldo tells him to do, as will the other players. Ole must be tempted to make CR7 captain.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Ronaldo will play in the same areas Cavani and Martial play for us. Bruno works excellently with them, so I dont see that changing.

Ronaldo cannot play on the wing for us, because of his workrate.

End of thread.

Plus, Bruno already does a lot of defensive work.

 

[MadMike]

If Bruno's role remain thesame, we wont compete. We will lose games against the likes of Wolves and Southampton who look tactically more drilled. We cant luck our way to the title with the way we play. We appear disjointed.

Pogba won't be in central midfield every week. He will likely be on the left more with Martial covering for him, while Sancho and Greenwood compete for the right and Cavani with Ronaldo compete for the #9.

I expect McFred to continue their partnership when Scott is back. That midfield is alright in my opinion in terms of balance. It's just not technically good enough and could use a (much) better DM.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Ronaldo will play in the same areas Cavani and Martial play for us. Bruno works excellently with them, so I dont see that changing.

Ronaldo cannot play on the wing for us, because of his workrate.

You are ignoring all our build up issues because Bruno is too high and not available.

 

[KcB32]

Even without Ronaldo coming in, Bruno needs to drop deeper. Of course his goals will drop off, but I think it's in the best interest of the team.
I'm convinced his positioning is the reason our strikers struggle to get into games (Martial particularly). Our strikers don't have the space to operate effectively, because Bruno is playing as a second #9. The opposing defense sits in because no one is there to pull a center half off the back line to create the space - this is why we can't break down the 'low block'.

 

[bosnian_red]

It wasn't just Bruno, we had 4 players all in a line in attack with no structure against Wolves. Greenwood, Cavani, Bruno and even Sancho (not his natural game at all) were trying to make runs in behind at the same time when Pogba got the ball. It's fine if we have 2 players making those runs, but we need Bruno to mix it up with dropping deep and running in behind, we need one of the wingers (should be Sancho) coming short to offer up a 2nd passing option in that line, and we need 2 players making those runs. On paper, we have the right players for it, it's just about instruction.

 

[Ali Dia]

This is what makes the ronaldo signing a strange one for me. It makes Bruno become Portugal Bruno. Not nearly as potent. I don’t think he has a great short game. In fact most of his bad performances have come when he comes deep and loses the ball attempting something simple and trying to get back up the pitch. It’s a weird one. Big names don’t always gel and I’ve a feeling we’ve one forward too many now.

 

[roonster09]

Even without Ronaldo coming in, Bruno needs to drop deeper. Of course his goals will drop off, but I think it's in the best interest of the team.
I'm convinced his positioning is the reason our strikers struggle to get into games (Martial particularly). Our strikers don't have the space to operate effectively, because Bruno is playing as a second #9. The opposing defense sits in because no one is there to pull a center half off the back line to create the space - this is why we can't break down the 'low block'.

Yeah it was so much better before Bruno was signed, he came and destabilized the team.

Martial had his best spell as Manutd player with Bruno playing behind him. Cavani didn't have any problem playing well. We don't struggle against low block teams, we are just inconsistent team.

 

[KcB32]

Yeah it was so much better before Bruno was signed, he came and destabilized the team.

Not sure where I said, or even implied that. Excellent response though. Maybe next time you could provide a counter point to add to the discussion.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure where I said, or even implied that. Excellent response though. Maybe next time you could provide a counter point to add to the discussion.

Yeah it was so much better before Bruno was signed, he came and destabilized the team.

Martial had his best spell as Manutd player with Bruno playing behind him. Cavani didn't have any problem playing well. We don't struggle against low block teams, we are just inconsistent team.

Well I did.

 

[berbatrick]

this worked rather well

 

[Highfather_24]

You are ignoring all our build up issues because Bruno is too high and not available.

That happens regardless of whether he plays with Ronaldo, Cavani or Greenwood. So its irrelevant.

 

[Smores]

Bit of a weird framing to blame Bruno, I'm fairly sure the manager has a big say in our players positioning.

If we start with Pogba in CM we just need to adjust our tactics so our fullbacks aren't so high. We looked exposed against Wolves mainly because they were.