Can we put this rumour that our managers are not backed to bed?

[Nou_Camp99]

It's creeping into the forefront once again. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was given £200m in his first full season to spend. More than any other PL club and we didn't even have CL football to help finance it. That's real backing. Whether we spent that money wisely is another discussion all together. Personally I think we wasted a lot of it. Maguire was £30m to 40m overpriced and AWB just isn't a good enough footballer. Dan James was a rather cheapish punt at £15m so it's not as bad but not sure he's done anything Chong couldn't have done with the amount of time he's had on the pitch. Only Bruno has been worth the money and looked like a player capable of taking us back to where we all want to be.

LVG was backed handsomely. Jose was also backed significantly up to his last season where I personally believe the board knew the writing was on the wall and chose not to give him any more money. Can't say I blame them as Jose had looked washed up for a while then.

We badly need a total revamp of our recruitment team. It's appalling. The money has been there for managers but its been squandered on dross or players coming from the wrong reasons (Di Maria etc).

I hate Woodward and the Glazers but they have given our managers a lot of money to do the job. It's just been bad scouting, bad decisions from whoever is making them. No way Woodward chooses the targets so somebody must be.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

@Nou_Camp99

You have an awful memory if you think Wan Bissaka is a poor footballer.

He's 20 and played about 60 games this season, with nobody to share responsibility with. He's been shattered by the end, and a roaring success overall.

Pathetic, silly comment.

 

[balaks]

Financially your managers are backed extremely well generally. I think this perception comes from rumors in the media about certain players that a manager would like to sign but at the end of the window that particular player didn't come in - that's when you hear people shouting about the manager not getting backed to get that specific player.

This ignores the complexity and challenge it is to get a transfer completed, particularly for the really high profile players. Sometimes despite everybody's best efforts it just isn't possible to get a deal over the line.

 

[Samid]

@Nou_Camp99

You have an awful memory if you think Wan Bissaka is a poor footballer.

He's 20 and played about 60 games this season, with nobody to share responsibility with. He's been shattered by the end, and a roaring success overall.

Pathetic, silly comment.

He's 23 in a couple of months. Or is this the new 'Lingard is young' joke?

 

[El Zoido]

Apart from James, the new players have all been successful. I’d rather have “overpaid” for Maguire than not had him at all, he’s been superb.

And the squad needs repeated investment, so spending whatever amount last summer is totally irrelevant if he’s not also backed this summer. Because the job isn’t done.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Where did this rumor originate from?

The only time a manager wasn't backed was Jose in 2018 and I think all of us would agree it was the correct decision.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

@Nou_Camp99

You have an awful memory if you think Wan Bissaka is a poor footballer.

He's 20 and played about 60 games this season, with nobody to share responsibility with. He's been shattered by the end, and a roaring success overall.

Pathetic, silly comment.

Go and look on the AWB player thread. I think you'll find most agree with me now mate.

Good tackler / 1 on 1 defender and that's it. Poor positionally, poor in the air and can't pass a ball to save his life. If that's now the Utd standard we are in for another decade of mediocrity.

 

[shaky]

We definitely needed a new thread just for your personal opinion on our transfer dealings.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The managers get plenty of money, undeniably, if that's what you mean by backing them.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Apart from James, the new players have all been successful. I’d rather have “overpaid” for Maguire than not had him at all, he’s been superb.

And the squad needs repeated investment, so spending whatever amount last summer is totally irrelevant if he’s not also backed this summer. Because the job isn’t done.

james was an important player for us at the start of the year and cost 17m. I don't know where we would be this year without him, not in 4th anyway. Has paid back that money already. Lucky we were able to kick on the second half of the season.

 

[JPRouve]

Where did this rumor originate from?

The only time a manager wasn't backed was Jose in 2018 and I think all of us would agree it was the correct decision.

Mourinho got Sanchez 6 months earlier, then added Fred and Dalot. By the end of summer United wage bill had increased by +100m in 24 months. Mourinho has been backed every summers, the issue is that we allocated a lot more money on wages and therefore couldn't spend more on transfer fees or wages. As for people talking about Maguire a year later, during that year we made money and could spend it on Maguire.

 

[Sandikan]

Remember that thread about how soon before people turn on Maguire and Wan Bissaka!

How anyone is blaming Wan Bissaka when we missed about 20 chances over the last two games i do not know.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Wierd thread... not sure where it says Ole wasn't backed in the past tense. Yes we sold a star player to fund transfers & spent little the year before so we didn't exactly break the bank for him last summer, but a reasonable level of backing.

Think people are mostly worried he won't be backed this summer and players of the quality needed won't be brought it, and that our negotiation methods will get in the way. hopefully that clears up what people are actually worried about

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Mourinho got Sanchez 6 months earlier, then added Fred and Dalot. By the end of summer United wage bill had increased by +100m in 24 months. Mourinho has been backed every summers, the issue is that we allocated a lot more money on wages and therefore couldn't spend more on transfer fees or wages. As for people talking about Maguire a year later, during that year we made money and could spend it on Maguire.

I should have phrased it the summer specifically, but I did forget about Fred and Dalot that summer. Still, I highly doubt that was the entirety of what Jose wanted.

That said, I'm definitely not trying to argue that Jose wasn't backed throughout his tenure. He most definitely was and failed.

 

[Glorio]

I think we did buy the right players, but at massively inflated prices. Always happens at United though, so I'm unsure the recruitment team is at fault here.
Maguire and AWB have vastly improved our defence (and I thought AWB was a lot better on the ball yesterday despite his concentration lapse which resulted in an easy goal.)


I think our managers definitely get backed in their first real summer after making an assessment of the squad, and then less so in the next. Ole has exceeded expectations in his first full season though, so he should definitely be backed, and there's still a lot of time in this transfer window, so I'm hoping we see some action, because not backing him now would be criminal.

 

[Hoboman]

Enough backing for wrong managers

 

[Siorac]

@Nou_Camp99

You have an awful memory if you think Wan Bissaka is a poor footballer.

He's 20 and played about 60 games this season, with nobody to share responsibility with. He's been shattered by the end, and a roaring success overall.

Pathetic, silly comment.

He's 22 and played 45 games this season. He has almost the exact same number of minutes as Liverpool's full-backs (3102 vs 3114 and 3176).

 

[JPRouve]

I should have phrased it the summer specifically, but I did forget about Fred and Dalot that summer. Still, I highly doubt that was the entirety of what Jose wanted.

That said, I'm definitely not trying to argue that Jose wasn't backed throughout his tenure. He most definitely was and failed.

It doesn't matter what José wanted, what matter is what the club could realistically do, that's how you determine whether someone is fully backed. It's important to remember that United spent the same proportion of their budget during all Mourinho's years, around 95% on operating expenses.

For example if I need a 1000€ and you give me 95€ out of the 100 that you have. No one will suggest that you didn't fully back me because I wanted/needed a 1000€, you backed me to your abilities which is the most I can expect.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Even though it doesn't seem like the intent of this thread, but it seems like our scouting and overall recruitment has sort of given up on finding cheaper first team / squad options. James was an exception but can't really put that down to finding a hidden gem. Our record from the Portuguese league is not bad, and overall recruits from French, German or Spanish clubs seems to be much cheaper and something that is being practiced by a lot of big clubs. But the problem with our strategy seems to be that:

1. Our key transfer targets are known to everyone: Maguire last year, Sancho this year
2. A randomly picked high valuation is attached to said players: 80 million and 100 million respectively
3. We, ultimately, have to pay that figure
4. We do not have any back up options / alternative targets
5. Our transfer dealing is prolonged and rarely done swiftly

In the post Fergie era, going by the 6 months of evidence, Bruno seems to be the most successful of the signings we've made. And for once, we did not pay over the odds. 47 odd million for a guaranteed top quality player is a bargain in this market. However, when we become fixated on players like Maguire, Sancho, Grealish probably, we open ourselves to being bullied in the transfer market and the players rarely deliver the same value expected of a 50 million or 100 million figure and we are left arguing whether the player is worth it or not.

For all the success our rivals have had, apart from Van Dijk, most key signings seem to be from abroad because it represents better value and swiftness of business. At the risk of sounding too wishful, we genuinely need a Monchi or Campos type DoF, who would be focused towards finding value in the market. We have a lot of money and it could and should be more wisely spent. Not backing Mourinho's targets was a wise decision. But not improving the target selection process is criminal, primitive and wasteful. That is something that needs to be backed and improved.

 

[Feed Me]

The real failure at this club was the lack of spending in Fergie’s final decade. That left us way behind the curve and we have then spent money poorly via a succession of managers to try and catch up. We do not spend that handsomely given our resources and I think that is the major frustration.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Remember that thread about how soon before people turn on Maguire and Wan Bissaka!

How anyone is blaming Wan Bissaka when we missed about 20 chances over the last two games i do not know.

most clean sheets in the top five leagues in europe, with a goalkeeper who the forum agrees is 'done'. maguire played every minute after years of crocked centre backs.

these guys are pure 'grass is greener' merchants, for whom one mistake is a 'warning sign' and two mistakes the player needs to be replaced (even if its a player who recently made mistakes at another club, like henderson or koulibaly, because they only watch the youtube highlights of these)

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It doesn't matter what José wanted, what matter is what the club could realistically do, that's how you determine whether someone is fully backed. It's important to remember that United spent the same proportion of their budget during all Mourinho's years, around 95% on operating expenses.

For example if I need a 1000€ and you give me 95€ out of the 100 that you have. No one will suggest that you didn't fully back me because I wanted/needed a 1000€, you backed me to your abilities which is the most I can expect.

But this seems unfounded to me. I don't think the club were unable to spend that summer. I think Woodward didn't want to trust Jose's plans for the squad.

And even if there were financial restrictions, wasn't it rumored that Jose wanted to sell Pogba and Martial? Woodward didn't back him in that regard(rightly too).

 

[Siorac]

The real failure at this club was the lack of spending in Fergie’s final decade. That left us way behind the curve and we have then spent money poorly via a succession of managers to try and catch up. We do not spend that handsomely given our resources and I think that is the major frustration.

No matter how you look at it, this is simply not true. We are one of six clubs to have spent over a billion euros since the summer of 2013 (so in the post-Fergie era). Barcelona, Manchester City, and Juventus are the only clubs to have spent more than us. If we look at transfer balance (that is, the infamous net spend that I still don't understand why people consider irrelevant) then it's even worse: only City has a higher net spend than United.

The real failure, as you put it, is that we kept wasting a lot of money on players and managers who simply couldn't live up to expectations. Sure, we could have done better in terms of investing the squad in Fergie's final years but we had a billion opportunities to put that right and yet we kept failing. Liverpool were behind on the curve, too, and managed to build an absolute top class side with less investment than what we wasted.

 

[Feed Me]

No matter how you look at it, this is simply not true. We are one of six clubs to have spent over a billion euros since the summer of 2013 (so in the post-Fergie era). Barcelona, Manchester City, and Juventus are the only clubs to have spent more than us. If we look at transfer balance (that is, the infamous net spend that I still don't understand why people consider irrelevant) then it's even worse: only City has a higher net spend than United.

The real failure, as you put it, is that we kept wasting a lot of money on players and managers who simply couldn't live up to expectations. Sure, we could have done better in terms of investing the squad in Fergie's final years but we had a billion opportunities to put that right and yet we kept failing. Liverpool were behind on the curve, too, and managed to build an absolute top class side with less investment than what we wasted.

I agree with you and think I worded my initial post badly. But you have hit the nail on the head in your post. We have spent a lot of money badly post-Fergie, which happens when you have no overarching strategy or vision for running the club and keep chopping and changing managers. That said, the truth is that we allowed the squad to decay under Fergie and this was masked by his genius. We are genuinely spend thrifts between around 2009 and 2013 and it has killed us ever since, because we’ve been trying to build from a position of weakness. For the first time in ages, I feel comfortable that we have a manager who will spend the money we do have responsibly.

 

[ivaldo]

Remember that thread about how soon before people turn on Maguire and Wan Bissaka!

How anyone is blaming Wan Bissaka when we missed about 20 chances over the last two games i do not know.

AWB was very poor last night and was largely at fault for both goals. That said, the issue is a multitude of posters here tend to judge a played based on their last performance. We've got posters claiming Martials finishing isn't good enough in general, that Rashford is dump, that our CBs are both rubbish, that Pogba doesn't do enough on the ball, there's even one maniac using the result as a reason to attack his performance despite being man of the match.

It's the same usual shit posters popping up to blame their chosen scapegoat in whatever way possible. Objectively, we completely dominated Sevilla. They're a good side that press really well and they will know they are fortunate to go through. But no, our inability to put the ball in the net despite the endless amount of opportunities we created was Oles fault!

Of course we then get the same reactionary posts and then the reactionary threads to try and counter it, when really everyone should just be pissed off we didn't go through in a game we completely dominated. It sucks. It happens.

 

[JPRouve]

But this seems unfounded to me. I don't think the club were unable to spend that summer. I think Woodward didn't want to trust Jose's plans for the squad.

And even if there were financial restrictions, wasn't it rumored that Jose wanted to sell Pogba and Martial? Woodward didn't back him in that regard(rightly too).

But the club spent that summer, they spent 60m on Fred and Dalot but also what they spent earlier than anticipated on Sanchez, in football that's a lot of money, there isn't actually a lot of clubs doing that and the club accounts support that, of course the club could have borrowed money but that's a stupid idea particularly when you are not talking about great players.
So to me your idea of backing is way too absolute, we are talking in relative terms because managers are employees and none of them will have 100% of their ideas backed because clubs executives have to think about the club long term, they are not working for the manager but the club.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

They have been backed, but backed to buy any old player that was available if they fit United or not, then various manager have made matters worse. Ole is trying to undo all that damage. He is trying to build a Manchester United side, he might not be the answer in the end, but let him get rid of the wasters and then it will be up to the board to get the manager who fits United and what the fans want to see, that is where we have failed miserably up to now.