Captaincy…

bosnian_red

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Varane has been in the team longer than Maguire was when he was named skipper
Yes but that was an obviously crazy decision by someone who should never have been close to the job as manager. So i wouldn't look at that as an example to follow.
 

Rolaholic

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People dont understand how captaincy works. Captaincy is reserved to the player with the best leadership qualities, who is capable of organizing and giving instructions to the players during the game as well as working with the players to address their issues/concerns which they might not share with the manager. The captain is normally ever present in the team. Transfer of captaincy only happens when the player is injured for too long or is leaving. It never happens because of bad performances.

When Valencia and Ashley Young left, Maguire was the only one who had that capability. Matic was equally experienced but he suffered from fitness issues which ruled him out. So Ole and Rangnick were right to allow Maguire to be the captain. Taking the captaincy away just because he was not performing well on the pitch, is a wrong decision that can cause doubts within dressing room.

Currently Maguire is still the captain while Bruno is vice-captain and it will be that way unless Maguire leaves.
There's been reports over the last few years that the players have already questioned his captaincy though.

Highly doubt that giving it to a Bruno or Dave/Varane would cause any sort of unrest
 

roonster09

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The only reason Maguire is captain is because there isn't a clear cut option in the squad, so might as well leave it.

Agree with those that say Bruno as full time captain is kind of .... Meh. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez seem like captain types who are calm, assertive and will be mainstays in the team (once settled), but they haven't been at the club long enough, or are too injury prone
I think players and coach confirmed that they have group of leaders, so who wears the band is not a big deal. Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane, Martinez, Case, Eriksen will be the leaders.
 

SirReginald

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I think players and coach confirmed that they have group of leaders, so who wears the band is not a big deal. Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane, Martinez, Case, Eriksen will be the leaders.
Ahh the famous Emery approach..

At one point Chelsea had the captains of England, Germany, Ivory Coast.. with senior authorities figures like Cole , Cech, Lampard etc. it led to a very player-run dressing room. Lots of fights and emotions but it worked because they still had 1 single player as their voice. Having many leaders is fine but you always need a chain of command for things to work properly.
 

romufc

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Yes and you show your support in a weird way. Rather than just type this, you began by bashing other options, then misinterpreting the fighting statements as literally starting fights and then when all that failed, you threw in the obvious its your opinion comment (of course its my opinion, I typed it...whose opinion would it be unless I explicitly state it being someone else's opinion). Even in this very post you are having a go at DDG and shaw...without actually understanding why they would be better options. I explained this clearly. Maguire never takes responsibility for his part in that leaky defence. At least DDG and shaw have come out and owned their mistakes. Maguire never does that. They may not be perfect but they are better. This is the same thing for Bruno. Yes he moans but that has no bearing on whether he is a better option for captain than Maguire. Better is not perfect....its just better. Just because those other options have flaws doesn't mean that they are not better. You seem to think that unless we have the perfect option, we shouldn't make the change to better options. I think we should make the change and go with better captain options. It goes without saying that everything on the Caf is opinion

The point is what is the point of having a captain for the sake of a captain? DDG has been at this club for a long time and no one has thought he is captain material.

So a player coming out publicly saying I take responsibility = Captain? How do you know internally they aren't all taking accountability. Shaw and DDG take responsibility but still dont change anything? Last season we heard DE Gea come out say its not good enough, next game was the same.
 

Mwooyo

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The point is what is the point of having a captain for the sake of a captain? DDG has been at this club for a long time and no one has thought he is captain material.

So a player coming out publicly saying I take responsibility = Captain? How do you know internally they aren't all taking accountability. Shaw and DDG take responsibility but still dont change anything? Last season we heard DE Gea come out say its not good enough, next game was the same.
Yes. Like I said, he isnt a good leader. Keyword being Good. Taking accountability internally while blowing your own horn publicly is a valid leadership style...but it isnt good. Keyword being Good. As you saw last season, it became a case of every player releasing public statements to blow their own horns after every loss. Every one wanted to appear good publicly becoz of the leader maguire was. If he is this internal accountability only kind of leader...its even more reason for us to get rid of him.
 

romufc

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Yes. Like I said, he isnt a good leader. Keyword being Good. Taking accountability internally while blowing your own horn publicly is a valid leadership style...but it isnt good. Keyword being Good. As you saw last season, it became a case of every player releasing public statements to blow their own horns after every loss. Every one wanted to appear good publicly becoz of the leader maguire was. If he is this internal accountability only kind of leader...its even more reason for us to get rid of him.
Right you are making it seem like the reason we are so bad is because we have Maguire as captain.

Its almost as if you think that we will be back to where we belong by having a different captain, I am sorry to say but you are very wrong about that.

Lets see how everyone is after a loss, see what kind of responses you get.
 

Isotope

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Agreed with this. During his long career at Madrid, I've never seen Varane as a leader. I also want an aggressive captain that always on the ref face on every questionable decision. We had Cantona, Robbo, Keano, Vidic in the past doing that. Maguire is always too soft with ref, and Varane is just a continuation of that.

https://talksport.com/football/1194488/raphael-varane-man-utd-captain-lacks-personality/

"Varane should not be on the shortlist of contenders, according to Petit.

Raphael Varane has played at a very good level, but he’s very shy and doesn’t have the temper or the personality to be the Manchester United captain,” said Petit, who was speaking to Lord Ping.

“The one player that should receive the Manchester United captaincy is Christian Eriksen. He has the personality and the character and he always gives the best version of himself on the pitch.”
 
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JPRouve

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Petit is a lunatic and full of shit, he is always wrong on every takes he has regardless of whether you agree with him or not. Also that idiot, is talking about someone that was named captain of Lens at 18, is the youngest captain in the history of France and was one of Real Madrid's deputy captains.
 

MadDogg

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Petit is a lunatic and full of shit, he is always wrong on every takes he has regardless of whether you agree with him or not. Also that idiot, is talking about someone that was named captain of Lens at 18, is the youngest captain in the history of France and was one of Real Madrid's deputy captains.
I do remember a number of Real fans saying the same thing though, that Varane wasn't really a leader.

Perhaps that was just because he was playing next to Ramos though, who was obviously an incredible captain. With that force of personality next to him perhaps Varane looked quieter and less captain-material than he otherwise would have.
 

Rolaholic

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Petit is a lunatic and full of shit, he is always wrong on every takes he has regardless of whether you agree with him or not. Also that idiot, is talking about someone that was named captain of Lens at 18, is the youngest captain in the history of France and was one of Real Madrid's deputy captains.
Yea I don't think that simply being a fiery and vocal/loud 'rah rah' type person is necessarily a prerequisite for a captain.

Not everyone is a Roy Keane, Tony Adams or Vieira, other players are more like Pirlo, Buffon or Cafu personality wise. They have a more subdued nature yet they still command total respect and show their leadership in how they conduct themselves on and off the pitch.

Varanes coach for France, Didier Deschamps, was famously that very sort of captain for club and country and he still won at every level.

There isn't just one way to be a leader or captain. Petit is wide off the mark in my eyes.
 

JPRouve

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I do remember a number of Real fans saying the same thing though, that Varane wasn't really a leader.

Perhaps that was just because he was playing next to Ramos though, who was obviously an incredible captain. With that force of personality next to him perhaps Varane looked quieter and less captain-material than he otherwise would have.
It doesn't matter what people that have no knowledge of a dressing room think or not. The reality of the matter is that Varane has been a captain or deputy captain for the entirety of his career. Now ask yourself this question why would Varane be deemed worthy of it from the age of 17, for his national team and for Real Madrid. It different people at different levels with different teammates have deemed that he was captain material but he isn't a leader for people that aren't in the dressing room?

Does it makes sense to you?
 

JPRouve

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Yea I don't think that simply being a fiery and vocal/loud 'rah rah' type person is necessarily a prerequisite for a captain.

Not everyone is a Roy Keane, Tony Adams or Vieira, other players are more like Pirlo, Buffon or Cafu personality wise. They have a more subdued nature yet they command total respect and show their leadership in how they conduct themselves on and off the pitch.

Varane's coach for France, Didier Deschamps, was famously that very sort of captain for club and country and he still won at every level.

There isn't just one way to be a leader or captain. Petit is wide off the mark in my eyes.
Deschamps was a maniac, he was very different to Varane. In fact there is a story about him at Nantes when he was still a youth player but training with the pros, he allegedly started to scold senior players because they weren't training to a good enough standard. Varane would be more like Vidic, allegedly men of few words but words that count and they lead by example.
 

MadDogg

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It doesn't matter what people that have no knowledge of a dressing room think or not. The reality of the matter is that Varane has been a captain or deputy captain for the entirety of his career. Now ask yourself this question why would Varane be deemed worthy of it from the age of 17, for his national team and for Real Madrid. It different people at different levels with different teammates have deemed that he was captain material but he isn't a leader for people that aren't in the dressing room?

Does it makes sense to you?
Oh yes, and I expect that is likely the situation here. He doesn't seem like the classic dominating captain, but he probably has the respect and leadership role in the dressing room.
 

Andycoleno9

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Maguire was a poor choice but I didn't/don't see de Gea as an option either. He's pretty meek and can't even command his own penalty area, never mind the whole team. I think it would've been just another complication for him, he's struggled for form anyway, the additional scrutiny of the captaincy might have broken him just as much as Maguire.

Winning the league with Ferguson isn't a criteria for captaincy either. Phil Jones would be top of the list if that were the case.
And yet, when all those leaks were coming out, lots of those leaks said that De Gea is the one who has reputation and authority among players.
 

JPRouve

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Regarding Maguire didn't he dodge a captain interview during one of our rough period and Pogba was the one doing it instead?
 

Andycoleno9

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People dont understand how captaincy works. Captaincy is reserved to the player with the best leadership qualities, who is capable of organizing and giving instructions to the players during the game as well as working with the players to address their issues/concerns which they might not share with the manager. The captain is normally ever present in the team. Transfer of captaincy only happens when the player is injured for too long or is leaving. It never happens because of bad performances.

When Valencia and Ashley Young left, Maguire was the only one who had that capability. Matic was equally experienced but he suffered from fitness issues which ruled him out. So Ole and Rangnick were right to allow Maguire to be the captain. Taking the captaincy away just because he was not performing well on the pitch, is a wrong decision that can cause doubts within dressing room.

Currently Maguire is still the captain while Bruno is vice-captain and it will be that way unless Maguire leaves.
So new player who has never been a captain and spent most of his career in relegation battle in smaller clubs, was right choice to be a captain of Manchester United and be authority to a team full of stars and "stars"? Right....
 

JPRouve

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An other thing, team have to name a captain for administrative reasons, in theory he is the official on-field link between the team and officials. I bet that if it wasn't mandatory to name a captain on the teamsheet, teams wouldn't because they rarely only have one leader and the main leader isn't necessarily a starter.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Agreed with this. During his long career at Madrid, I've never seen Varane as a leader. I also want an aggressive captain that always on the ref face on every questionable decision. We had Cantona, Robbo, Keano, Vidic in the past doing that. Maguire is always too soft with ref, and Varane is just a continuation of that.

https://talksport.com/football/1194488/raphael-varane-man-utd-captain-lacks-personality/

"Varane should not be on the shortlist of contenders, according to Petit.

Raphael Varane has played at a very good level, but he’s very shy and doesn’t have the temper or the personality to be the Manchester United captain,” said Petit, who was speaking to Lord Ping.

“The one player that should receive the Manchester United captaincy is Christian Eriksen. He has the personality and the character and he always gives the best version of himself on the pitch.”
Using his Real Madrid reference could be an unfair thing to judge his leadership because he had lot of leaders around him, which makes people think he is not a leader in people's eye since his leadership is being overshadowed by others. I believe player can develop to be one and I will just use the Man United one as a reference, and I thought he looks like a leader this season ever since ETH took in charged (may be because ETH specifically asked him to step up being a leader). He seems to be more a commanding defender under ETH and ETH himself specifically mentioned him as a leader. If the manager specifically mentioned certain name means the manager sees something in Varane as a leader.
 

Isotope

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Using his Real Madrid reference could be an unfair thing to judge his leadership because he had lot of leaders around him, which makes people think he is not a leader in people's eye since his leadership is being overshadowed by others. I believe player can develop to be one and I will just use the Man United one as a reference, and I thought he looks like a leader this season ever since ETH took in charged (may be because ETH specifically asked him to step up being a leader). He seems to be more a commanding defender under ETH and ETH himself specifically mentioned him as a leader. If the manager specifically mentioned certain name means the manager sees something in Varane as a leader.
Was he? I remember on his last few seasons, he made some defensive blunders; especially when Ramos was injured, he became even worse and couldn't lead the defensive line good enough. He's always good with France NT though.

Edit: So found this thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/raphael-varane.440149/

Anyway, you're probably right that Varane will be a good captain. I don't see it but it's hard to tell from outside. Probably need a season to see how he does as last season he definitely didn't show any.
 
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lex talionis

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Vidic was a Captain. His actions did the talking and his performances pushed his teammates forward in the face of adversity.

Maguire doesn’t have that instinct, but now that we’ve strengthened the squad with natural leaders if the captaincy were an open question I’d go with either Varane or Eriksen. Ronaldo would be a decent but for the fact that he’s in notable decline and will be gone next season.
 

Foxbatt

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When your own player calls you a knob head on live tv and you do nothing then you know he doesn't have it in him.
 
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