Cardiac arrests on the pitch

golden_blunder

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Another one today with the Luton captain, a lad who collapsed on the pitch before

what can be done to help?

surely they cannot take any more risks in this specific case
 

antsmithmk

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Awful situation. Not sure I know enough about the specifics to make an informed comment.
 

MiceOnMeth

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Waiting for my mate to text me to tell me it's the COVID vaccine causing it
 

VP89

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Another one today with the Luton captain, a lad who collapsed on the pitch before

what can be done to help?

surely they cannot take any more risks in this specific case
He has collapsed before as well and needed surgery I think.
 

rimaldo

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Awful situation. Not sure I know enough about the specifics to make an informed comment.
how long have you been posting on here? ignorance certainly isn’t a bar.
 

daveskimufc

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Shame really, I'd imagine he'll be advised to retire now. Can't risk it again.
 

Dirty Schwein

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He collapsed during the playoff final. I was there and it was horrible and I kept thinking about it during the game.

Whilst we will miss our captain, I hope he is not asked to play for the rest of the season whilst they look into it at the very least. I'm sure long term the club will give him a position that doesn't require him to be on the pitch.

Health comes first.
 

rimaldo

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He collapsed during the playoff final. I was there and it was horrible and I kept thinking about it during the game.

Whilst we will miss our captain, I hope he is not asked to play for the rest of the season whilst they look into it at the very least. I'm sure long term the club will give him a position that doesn't require him to be on the pitch.

Health comes first.
colloquially known as “the united.”
 

MalaysianRed7

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This is terribly sad. I’m no medical expert but if I was part of his family, friend group or one of his Luton or Welsh teammates, I’d strongly advise him to retire. It’s obviously terribly gutting to have to give up a dream like that, but I really do not want to see him risk his life just to play football after two separate heart issues. I’m sure that as captain, Luton have a role in the backroom staff lined up for him.

Poor guy.
 

MileStolar

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There's this serbian player(Gudelj's brother) that plays in Spain lower League that collapsed recently for the 2nd time. He had the same thing done to him on his heart that Christian Eriksen had. So anyway his heart stops, he collapses, it zaps him back to life and he jumps up 1s after collapsing. Apparently his doctor advised him to stop playing after that event.

It seems that with this defibrillator thing they are encouraged to return to stressing their bodies up to the maximum capacity, but one has to wonder how many times do you have to collapse before you damage yourself enough to have lasting consequences, and is it worth it?
 

Giggsyking

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Better obligatory testing needed every season. I do not know the protocols at the beginning of the season, but cardiac testing is not as easy as people think. I do not know anything about his previous medical history other than he collapsed during the summer, I can assume they could not find any serious pathological explanation to his syncope and probably diagnosed it as some sort of benign syncope like vasovagal attacks. He could still experiencing the same problem again.
 

Redstain

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Club captain so perhaps could look at coaching and management. As already stated it's good for people to enjoy a profession but health should be the immediate priority. It's a disappointing situation.

Some statistics on the frequency of this would be interesting because it could compel the authorities within the infrastructure of the sport to do more in the sciences for prevention. However, I would imagine players already having a rigorous schedule with checks and tests beyond a medical when they join.
 

Wolverine

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Any medics/sports science types here know what are part of footballer’s medicals. Do they have echocardiograms, 24hr ECG, stress tests?
 

Dan_F

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Any medics/sports science types here know what are part of footballer’s medicals. Do they have echocardiograms, 24hr ECG, stress tests?
Regardless, you’d have thought that someone who had this issue previously would have been through every test imaginable.
 

Red_toad

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Any medics/sports science types here know what are part of footballer’s medicals. Do they have echocardiograms, 24hr ECG, stress tests?
I'll invite some vaccine experts over from X, they're all over once more, 100% confirmed as true :p
 

Livewire1974

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Another one today with the Luton captain, a lad who collapsed on the pitch before

what can be done to help?

surely they cannot take any more risks in this specific case
Less games. TV (and betting companies) demands for a match almost every night.

We already have too many injuries, the possibility of someone dying is now becoming real.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Any medics/sports science types here know what are part of footballer’s medicals. Do they have echocardiograms, 24hr ECG, stress tests?
I have no idea but I’m curious about what happened to Lockyer. His previous collapse was put down to Afib, which was treated with what sounds like ablation? Am I right in assuming he must have had some sort of new, different arrythmia today? Afib won’t cause cardiac arrest, right? At worst it can only cause atrial tachyarrythmia, which won’t cause LoC?
 

Wolverine

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I have no idea but I’m curious about what happened to Lockyer. His previous collapse was put down to Afib, which was treated with what sounds like ablation? Am I right in assuming he must have had some sort of new, different arrythmia today? Afib won’t cause cardiac arrest, right? At worst it can only cause atrial tachyarrythmia, which won’t cause LoC?
yeah the procedure would have been ablation which has excellent prognostic outcome. Not sure what happened today. Undiagnosed HOCM or channelopathy leading to V-fib perhaps?

poor guy
 

Pogue Mahone

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yeah the procedure would have been ablation which has excellent prognostic outcome. Not sure what happened today. Undiagnosed HOCM or channelopathy leading to V-fib perhaps?

poor guy
You’d imagine they had a very good look at his heart after his last episode, so would have surely spotted HOCM? Feck knows though. Great they got his heart started so quickly, so whatever happened must have been shockable.
 

DaiHatsu

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I find this interesting. Along with the Christian Eriksen situation, too. I've been lurking for ages, but this prompted me to sign up.


Back in 2011, I had a heart attack. 2 stents later, I'd lost 25% of my heart muscle /efficiency, but had a decade of no further issues.

Recently, I'd been getting the atrial fibrillation (AF) issues as seen in Tom Lockyer during the playoff final. I was booked in for an ablation (which is what I assume he had), but we couldn't trigger my AF in the theatre, so couldn't ablate.

However, what we did trigger was a ventricular tachycardia (VT) which nearly caused me to black out and we were seconds from shocking me (they already have the pads on when you're undergoing procedures like this). Fortunately I didn't need this and came back myself. I've since had another 2 stents done to try to protect me from restricted blood flow.

Without wanting to feed rumours, it looks like this is what happened to Tom today - he went into ventricular tachycardia but couldn't recover from it, this crashes your blood pressure and often leads to arrest.

Fortunately, on the pitch in a football stadium is one of the better places for this to happen - you have medics and a defibrillator on site - as we saw with Eriksen and previously with Muamba.

Unfortunately, this often happens when you're alone or asleep, so you never get the help before it kills you.

I assume Tom Lockyer will now have to have an ICD (defibrillator / pacemaker) like Eriksen - which could allow him to continue playing. I hope to have one implanted in the new year as an insurance policy for me.

However, you can imagine what this has done for my anxiety levels this evening!

The problem is that these things are hard to diagnose - and the diagnosis process is quite stressful, involving adrenaline injections which come with their own risk (see above ref my failed ablation - it was the adrenaline that pushed me into VT). Hearing the nurse call 'he's in VT, 300 joules, stand clear' is not what you want to hear!
 
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Hernandez - BFA

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Any medics/sports science types here know what are part of footballer’s medicals. Do they have echocardiograms, 24hr ECG, stress tests?
Doctor and a diploma in Sports Medicine here.
Generally ECHOs are part of a footballer’s medical but structurally it doesn’t sound as if this is the cause for Lockyer’s cardiac issue. Rhythmic issues typically are invisible structurally and are due to the electrical system of the heart, which can be transient and paroxysmal.
 

Belisarius

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Unheard of? These are just the players that died, with the vast majority being heart issues. The list does not start in 2020.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_who_died_during_their_careers
That is a frighteningly long list.

I tried to read through it but it was impossible for me to know if these were top level professionals in the prime of their lives or duffers and out of shape old-timers. I'm in Canada and it's not uncommon to hear of old-timer hockey players suffering cardiac arrest.

But, I had rarely heard of professionals in their prime suffering these attacks prior to covid except in exceptional circumstances where the individual was born with some kind of major heart defect.

But, perhaps they were always occurring and I'm only hearing about them more now.
 

LDUred

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I am not a doctor, but I think we have to take into consideration the intensity that the game is played at these days as a possible factor that could exacerbate existing medical conditions. Also, stuff like climate change and players having to play in stultifying conditions as a matter of course undoubtedly has an effect, as do punishing schedules.

The Jimmy Quinns and Jan Molbys of this world would last two minutes in the modern game. Look at how tough players who recover from long term injuries have it when they return. Yes, it's often due to the severity of the injury hindering a full recovery, but some players simply cannot reintegrate into a gruelling pace.

Football is more dangerous than is often recognized but 45 minutes is arguably too long in the modern context.

I think living in a post-vaccine world we have a tendency to blow up and scandalize every unfortunate incident that takes place, but there are other factors to take into consideration.
 

jojojo

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This feels like a reminder of just how hard it is to spot who is at risk on a football pitch. You'd assume that someone who needed treatment only a few months back must have had every test imaginable before returning to play and yet, here we are today - glad that treatment was good enough to get him to the hospital and hoping we will be ok.

A decade back I read a study done in Spain on football cardiac fatalities and serious incidents. Essentially they concluded that things like ECGs were too crude to spot all risks and the more sophisticated tests saw most top athletes as being "anomalous" in some way. Their recommendation back then was to standardise the defib and resusc kits in service and add more of them (at amateur ground and training grounds as well). I don't know if the recommendations have changed since then, I do know they've saved some lives as a result.
 

Ted Lasso

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Would it help for things like thickened heart walls and calcium scans all that to become part of annual physicals?
 

Dirty Schwein

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I find this interesting. Along with the Christian Eriksen situation, too. I've been lurking for ages, but this prompted me to sign up.


Back in 2011, I had a heart attack. 2 stents later, I'd lost 25% of my heart muscle /efficiency, but had a decade of no further issues.

Recently, I'd been getting the atrial fibrillation (AF) issues as seen in Tom Lockyer during the playoff final. I was booked in for an ablation (which is what I assume he had), but we couldn't trigger my AF in the theatre, so couldn't ablate.

However, what we did trigger was a ventricular tachycardia (VT) which nearly caused me to black out and we were seconds from shocking me (they already have the pads on when you're undergoing procedures like this). Fortunately I didn't need this and came back myself. I've since had another 2 stents done to try to protect me from restricted blood flow.

Without wanting to feed rumours, it looks like this is what happened to Tom today - he went into ventricular tachycardia but couldn't recover from it, this crashes your blood pressure and often leads to arrest.

Fortunately, on the pitch in a football stadium is one of the better places for this to happen - you have medics and a defibrillator on site - as we saw with Eriksen and previously with Muamba.

Unfortunately, this often happens when you're alone or asleep, so you never get the help before it kills you.

I assume Tom Lockyer will now have to have an ICD (defibrillator / pacemaker) like Eriksen - which could allow him to continue playing. I hope to have one implanted in the new year as an insurance policy for me.

However, you can imagine what this has done for my anxiety levels this evening!

The problem is that these things are hard to diagnose - and the diagnosis process is quite stressful, involving adrenaline injections which come with their own risk (see above ref my failed ablation - it was the adrenaline that pushed me into VT). Hearing the nurse call 'he's in VT, 300 joules, stand clear' is not what you want to hear!
Good luck on the pacemaker bro. I get palpitations out of nowhere and I think it's attending related but doctors can't figure out what's going on.
 

TwoSheds

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That is a frighteningly long list.

I tried to read through it but it was impossible for me to know if these were top level professionals in the prime of their lives or duffers and out of shape old-timers. I'm in Canada and it's not uncommon to hear of old-timer hockey players suffering cardiac arrest.

But, I had rarely heard of professionals in their prime suffering these attacks prior to covid except in exceptional circumstances where the individual was born with some kind of major heart defect.

But, perhaps they were always occurring and I'm only hearing about them more now.
You think? Look up Dani Jarque or Marc Vivien Foé. and tell me they looked unfit.

Statistically young, fit men between the ages of 20 and 40 are the most likely people to die from sudden, often unexplained heart attacks, and it's always been that way.
 

MassVolto

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You think? Look up Dani Jarque or Marc Vivien Foé. and tell me they looked unfit.

Statistically young, fit men between the ages of 20 and 40 are the most likely people to die from sudden, often unexplained heart attacks, and it's always been that way.
Source?
 

Belisarius

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You think? Look up Dani Jarque or Marc Vivien Foé. and tell me they looked unfit.

Statistically young, fit men between the ages of 20 and 40 are the most likely people to die from sudden, often unexplained heart attacks, and it's always been that way.
Yeah, that's not true.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Another one today with the Luton captain, a lad who collapsed on the pitch before

what can be done to help?

surely they cannot take any more risks in this specific case
Surprised he was allowed back onto the field at all after one collapse. Probably time to get another profession.