Champions League Final: FC Internazionale Milano vs 115 Charges FC

pocco

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You have the same access as me, I'm not doing the leg work for you.

Funnily enough, Tifo just 7 hours posted a video that covers tactical differences between ETH and Ole and the stats. Explaining the possession football.


We don't sit back and hoof a long ball to the wide players. We play in possession - playing out from the back, and around a press, rather than over it.

We have Rashford and Anthony to find out wide once the ball gets to Bruno to find, as opposed to James and Rashford.

Just because the 'final' ball goes out wide, doesn't mean it's counter attacking football. We aren't relying on soaking up pressure and attacking in transition, we are trying to play around the pressure, keeping possession and getting the ball to a playmaker.

Don't compare us to Ajax. We aren't replicating Ajax 1:1. That's a mistake I made early in the season, trying to compare them. ETH even said in an interview that we don't have the players to play Ajaxball, saying something along the lines of a manager isn't god and cannot create miracles.

Agreed about the players, I wish there was a poll that could see why though. I wonder how many look at the age and worry that we end up needing to replace a nearly-whole team in 1 season or so.

Darmian is an interesting point, but have managers been given a run long enough to say "hmm, weren't great last season, you might do well in another position". Only Shaw I've seen be tested in another role and done well. We have players that I think are capable of being utilised elsewhere in order to do a job and help the team.
Personally, I think having a good core of experienced players is important - maybe down the spine - a GK, 1 CB, 1 CM and a Striker all should be experienced enough to teach and help the younglings around them.
You've not given me enough to go off to find out who these more qualified people are :lol:

I get what you're saying but I think we're a team that is neither here nor there tactically. In bigger games, we do sit deep a lot. And in the FA Cup final we did go long and sat in deep. I still stand by my point that inter did a better job than I've seen us do in ages against City or in general really. I could see a plan to play the sort of football we want and were expecting.

I can see a plan with ETH but I don't think it's geared up at all to play possession. Go back through match day threads for the season, or the ETH thread, and everybody is now saying the same thing. In my opinion, we want to play out from the back, but when you look at the position of our midfield and attack, in comparison to better possession teams, I don't think we're looking to keep the ball but go from back to front as quickly as possible. Not necessarily always in the air. But look at all the long balls in behind we do play and all the goals and chances for Rashford.

It's clear to me that we aren't a possession team. And as I originally said, we aren't aggressive in the press either. I'd be a very happy man if I saw some of what Inter showed on a regular enough basis for me to think it's actually part of the plan.
 

JustCoco

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I can see a plan with ETH but I don't think it's geared up at all to play possession...But look at all the long balls in behind we do play and all the goals and chances for Rashford.
If you think through balls to Rashford means we're a CA side then I give up.

There's more the football then either playing through balls = CA and Sitting in opponents half = Possession.

Like I've already said, we are clearly trying to play through the press in our half and utilise a playmaker for the outlet.
With the right players, we wouldn't get trapped in our own half and that passing through the press would help us in playing around their press in their half instead.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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.

I can see a plan with ETH but I don't think it's geared up at all to play possession. Go back through match day threads for the season, or the ETH thread, and everybody is now saying the same thing. In my opinion, we want to play out from the back, but when you look at the position of our midfield and attack, in comparison to better possession teams, I don't think we're looking to keep the ball but go from back to front as quickly as possible. Not necessarily always in the air. But look at all the long balls in behind we do play and all the goals and chances for Rashford.

It's clear to me that we aren't a possession team. And as I originally said, we aren't aggressive in the press either. I'd be a very happy man if I saw some of what Inter showed on a regular enough basis for me to think it's actually part of the plan.
This is a bit mad. You’re judging EtH off a single season. We played a whole season with a keeper that can’t pass, started it with a 9 that couldn’t run, and has midfielders that can either pass but not run, or run but not pass. In addition… In January we didn’t spend a penny.

EtH so clearly wants us to own and control the ball. Less like Pep and more like Klopp. Transitions should be fast and seek to exploit, but if that’s not possible they should reset. He doesn’t want possession for the sake of it, but he wants to own the balance of possession. He’s somewhat similar to Arteta. Pressing in areas that make sense. Concession when it doesn’t. Control the ball when there are no spaces, risk losing it when there are.

I don’t think that that’s hard to spot when you watch us at our best.

I’d support your point if he was 3 years, 6 windows and 10-15
Players into his plan, but right now your judgement is waaaay too early.
 

pocco

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If you think through balls to Rashford means we're a CA side then I give up.

There's more the football then either playing through balls = CA and Sitting in opponents half = Possession.

Like I've already said, we are clearly trying to play through the press in our half and utilise a playmaker for the outlet.
With the right players, we wouldn't get trapped in our own half and that passing through the press would help us in playing around their press in their half instead.
Long balls in behind. We try it all the time with Rashford. But in general I think we want to be a quick transition team, in the ground or in the air. We've shown this all season. I don't need a YouTube analysis to tell me what I can see at the stadium better than they can on their screens. Our shape and structure doesn't lend itself to possession football or pressing football. We don't give enough options to the players on the ball to be a possession team. I don't care if our keeper can't play from the back when I don't see it when the defenders or midfielders are on the ball.

The first two games of the season are a good reference point as it is ingrained in all our memories. Think about the shape when playing from the back, Fred was like an island in midfield. Obviously it was tweaked after we got took apart by Brighton and Brentford, but the principles were still on display for the rest of the season. Albeit with a bit more of a safety factor and willingness to go long.

I said myself that we try to play from the back, but that doesn't equal possession football. If you think that then I give up.
 

pocco

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This is a bit mad. You’re judging EtH off a single season. We played a whole season with a keeper that can’t pass, started it with a 9 that couldn’t run, and has midfielders that can either pass but not run, or run but not pass. In addition… In January we didn’t spend a penny.

EtH so clearly wants us to own and control the ball. Less like Pep and more like Klopp. Transitions should be fast and seek to exploit, but if that’s not possible they should reset. He doesn’t want possession for the sake of it, but he wants to own the balance of possession. He’s somewhat similar to Arteta. Pressing in areas that make sense. Concession when it doesn’t. Control the ball when there are no spaces, risk losing it when there are.

I don’t think that that’s hard to spot when you watch us at our best.

I’d support your point if he was 3 years, 6 windows and 10-15
Players into his plan, but right now your judgement is waaaay too early.
He brought in 7 players, so he's not completely hamstrung. Plus he did inherit some talented players or useful players.

I don't see the similarities to Arteta, and this is coming from somebody that could see from early days what Arteta was doing at Arsenal. The receipts are all there. But I don't see it with us in terms of the style of play. Perhaps we're similar to Klopp if a year or two ago but obviously far, far less aggressive. Which is what made Liverpool. Even Klopp puts more emphasis on possession this season though.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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He brought in 7 players, so he's not completely hamstrung. Plus he did inherit some talented players or useful players.

I don't see the similarities to Arteta, and this is coming from somebody that could see from early days what Arteta was doing at Arsenal. The receipts are all there. But I don't see it with us in terms of the style of play. Perhaps we're similar to Klopp if a year or two ago but obviously far, far less aggressive. Which is what made Liverpool. Even Klopp puts more emphasis on possession this season though.
7 Players is a little misrepresentative.

Antony, Martinez, Casemiro were all big signings and all have been assimilated into the first team. Some don’t fully rate Antony. I do. But the other two have been among the best transfers of the season by anyone

Malacia was an inexpensive addition to fill a squad (and could come good).

So that’s 4.

Eriksen, Sabitzer and Weghorst were free (or close to it) and would not have been signed had we had Chelsea or City money to spend on those three positions.

I think we all need to be fair. If Arteta had City cash, he’d have two players for every position and they’d have won the league. the Loss of Saliba and the sheer exhaustion of Saka, Odegard and Partey cost them at least ten points.

But he doesn’t play like Pep. He plays like EtH. Press high, or drop, press deep and counter fast if the high press fails. They both concede the middle of the pitch. Pep doesn’t. His team presses relentlessly. Everywhere. Because every player is always fit enough to do so. Because their squad is huge enough to rest and rotate.

Eth has played a year with a keeper that can’t be trusted to receive or make a pass. No right back. I’m addition to the points I mentioned.

He needs time.
 

Ted Lasso

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Winning a CL title in 23, when legacy clubs are going through substantial depression, while monopolizing Premiership and CL with financial doping, and then barely scraping a win against Inter. Historic!

Outside of petro dollar infested punditry and Pep zealots, does anybody even care about City? Answer is clear.
Promote this poster.
 

JustCoco

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Long balls in behind. We try it all the time with Rashford. But in general I think we want to be a quick transition team, in the ground or in the air. We've shown this all season. I don't need a YouTube analysis to tell me what I can see at the stadium better than they can on their screens. Our shape and structure doesn't lend itself to possession football or pressing football. We don't give enough options to the players on the ball to be a possession team. I don't care if our keeper can't play from the back when I don't see it when the defenders or midfielders are on the ball.

The first two games of the season are a good reference point as it is ingrained in all our memories. Think about the shape when playing from the back, Fred was like an island in midfield. Obviously it was tweaked after we got took apart by Brighton and Brentford, but the principles were still on display for the rest of the season. Albeit with a bit more of a safety factor and willingness to go long.

I said myself that we try to play from the back, but that doesn't equal possession football. If you think that then I give up.
Maybe utilising analysis from multiple sources would do you a world of good then, sounds rather arrogant to assume that simply being at the game offers you more insight, as opposed to spliced builds of play, stats and everything in between.

We play possession based, you don't want to hear it, but it's the truth.

We aren't sat back, soaking up pressure and unleashing long balls to Ol' Rashie down the channel like we did under Ole.
That said, we aren't unnecessarily plodding around in a modified 442 begging for someone to just do something, anything like with Rangnick either.

ETH obviously wants to play out from the back (it's important, to do so in a possession system, you see).
We try and pass it around the press, as opposes to over it, i.e defence to attack in transition. Instead, passing it around, even having inverted wingbacks to support the central midfield, then we fortunately have 3 outlets to pass from - typically Bruno, Cas and Eriksen
as all 3 are good passers. This prevents one single playmaker being marked out of the game.

If we pushed up too high, we cannot abuse the glaring strength of Rashford - pace.
We pass the ball around, make runs etc and pull people out of position and then get a pass in to either another playmaker higher up, or to someone like Anthony or Rashford.

It's using possession to invite a press so that we can use our strengths against it.

Funnily enough, it's how ETH played w/ Ajax. I believe it's been referred to as 'slow-slow-fast' transitions or something to that affect.
We also use the same formation in build up play 3-2-4-1 with Shaw or Dalot tucking in besides the CB's / Cas + 1 other - Fred or Eriksen/ Rashford, Bruno, AWB or Dalot/Shaw on the left and Anthony with Werg or Martial up top.

If you want, coach some kids, try sitting back and hoofing longballs from the back with such a formation and let me know how it works out.
It's made to cluster midfield on defence and stretch backlines in attack. Which is becoming very common as of this season, nearly all teams are doing it.

This is a bit mad. You’re judging EtH off a single season. We played a whole season with a keeper that can’t pass, started it with a 9 that couldn’t run, and has midfielders that can either pass but not run, or run but not pass. In addition… In January we didn’t spend a penny.

EtH so clearly wants us to own and control the ball. Less like Pep and more like Klopp. Transitions should be fast and seek to exploit, but if that’s not possible they should reset. He doesn’t want possession for the sake of it, but he wants to own the balance of possession. He’s somewhat similar to Arteta. Pressing in areas that make sense. Concession when it doesn’t. Control the ball when there are no spaces, risk losing it when there are.

I don’t think that that’s hard to spot when you watch us at our best.
Thank you for understanding Possession football as a philosophy, unlike someone else in this thread.
 
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nakpodiareuben

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No joke put De Gea there and their whole plan crumbles.

You can just see the confidence onana breathes out. If city players press him, they open up space for him to beat their press. I think a goal keeper might even be more important than a striker in the way ETH liked to play
 

nakpodiareuben

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Lot of replies so far. I will try and sum up -
  1. Keeper being comfortable on the ball - enough said.
  2. Team more in sync and adept to manager's tactics - Greater than sum of parts
  3. Midfield battle - City aren't as dominant in midfield as they were against us. This is where having more energy and legs would have massively helped us. Eriksen couldn't compete physically.
Not exactly offering any unique insight but it seems a keeper, energetic midfielder and striker should be on top of our wish list. I suppose it does show that City are catchable with the right kind of investment and management.
Now it makes sense why we are going for Mason mount, may not extend Dr Geas contract and prioritise that Danish striker