Let them believe the FIFA game manager is challenging! I think it's best for us. We have some payback to do to him anyway.
Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion
- Thread starter duffer
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The Shed End is an embarrassment to real Chelsea fans. I wouldn’t be taking anything from their. I previously mentioned that I was banned on their for saying Lampard doesn’t have a clue against a decent team.
As time goes on, he still doesn’t.
You basically have to agree with some old weirdo called coco on that forum or you don’t last. Or you have to donate loads to get let off with having an opinion. It’s not a forum, it’s a happy clapping clique of armchair fans.
Anyway, Lampard’s decision making is really poor. When he signed, Derby fans made throwaway comments about his poor game management and terrible use of subs. That has become all too apparent.
As time goes on, he still doesn’t.
You basically have to agree with some old weirdo called coco on that forum or you don’t last. Or you have to donate loads to get let off with having an opinion. It’s not a forum, it’s a happy clapping clique of armchair fans.
Anyway, Lampard’s decision making is really poor. When he signed, Derby fans made throwaway comments about his poor game management and terrible use of subs. That has become all too apparent.
Do you think that when crowds are back in that the "real Chelsea fans" at Stamford Bridge will be critical of Lampard?
It’s hard to tell as fans will just be happy to back in grounds again. Once the novelty wears off and we continuously fail to beat anyone decent then fans will start becoming frustrated.
It’s what makes it difficult when a legend of the club becomes manager. You really want them to do well but when they struggle, you still hold back from criticising until it’s too late and you’ve lost all hope in challenging for the title. This league is still open as many teams are faltering but with the money we spend and the experience gained from the squad last season, any competent manager would have us challenging. I really do hope he turns this around and we start competing in bigger games.
I've just checked their Lampard thread from last night.
Many post critical of Lampard, not a single one has been banned.
I think there is a thread called “Frank Lampard: Chelsea Manager” or something like that and yes, I’m sure it contains some criticism of Frank. I think on forums generally there will always be criticism of managers and players, it’s where we come to vent!
The difference is there aren’t about 50 threads about sacking Frank, there isn’t a poll where nearly half the votes want Frank sacked and if you notice, when posters argue for giving Frank time, they aren’t accused of being cultists, lowing standards or supporting Frank just because he scored some goals for the club
Carry on like this and you won't last long here either
Lampard came into the club with his hands tied behind his back, with the club in a difficult situation, and delivered CL football despite the majority of predictions, even among Chelsea fans, that it would be a tough ask.There may be some sentimentality sprinkled over it, but that's essentially the main reason why there isn't a widespread LampardOut movement. He delivered what we thought was unlikely, and he's now 12 games into his first 'proper' season as Chelsea manger.
I don't think the club is lowering the standards. I'd sack him tomorrow if I thought the club was lowering the standards to appease Lampard because once you start doing that, it's a slippery slope to somewhere no club wants to be.
I'm not really criticising Frank, if you go back to my original post, I'm comparing the way Utd fans treat Ole with the way Chelsea fans treat Frank.
Both arrived with little experience of managing a top club and both walked into challenging situations. I would argue Frank inherited a better XI and a significantly better squad than Ole, however, as you rightly say, achieving Champions League football was the objective for both managers and both achieved it.
What I don't understand is why Chelsea fans are largely patient with Frank whilst our forum is full of absolute bile towards Ole.
Like I said, it is early days for Lampard. This is his first excuse-free season (last season is excused of course, he only had youth and no transfer windows and he did well considering that) and in this short period of time he has already collected enough posts pointing fingers at him and a few calls for his head. Ole didn't get to 50 sack threads overnight either, it took a long period of incompetence and poor results to achieve such toxicity.
Going by the trend, there should be the same 50 sacks threads at the Shed End if Lampard lasts as long as Ole did so far and if the same results continue. I really don't believe he will last that long though, Roman isn't a patient guy.
Pretty much because as WeePat said he got top 4 with a squad no one thought capable (all be it on points that wouldn't usually be enough). To put it into context, our team last season on paper is inferior to Arsenal's team this year, and squad quality is constantly used as an excuse as to why Arteta has them bottom half.
For the majority there's no blanket backing, progress from last season has to be clear and if not, the fans will turn.
Chelsea fans are nice and reasonable people, always have been.
You lot are a bunch of entitled whingers?
True this, he overachieved last season. Obviously there are problems at the moment, we've lost two games and not getting the best out of the new players in those games. Nothing too serious though and if we go on a good run we'll be right back in the mix around the top of the table. I'm sure Lampard will get the season, but if he doesn't turn it around and we don't finish top 4, won't be surprised to see him gone in the summer.
That is how Mr Abramovich has always run the club, failure will not be tolerated.
That's quite telling. I really don't see it with Lampard at Chelsea, and I've seen little to suggest he knows how to get the best out of his team.
Twice I've seen you say this, you're either massively underrating your own players from last season or overrating this current Arsenal squad
That being said I remember not giving Chelsea a hope last season. Is that because I underrated your players or Lampard? I don't know which was the case (probably both) so yeah he did a good job last season in fairness
I can't speak for United fans, but the perception I had of Ole before the United job was that he was an ok-ish manager who was plugging away at an ok level. He only came in as interim initially so there was the feeling that he was just a former player who came in to help out and would be gone as soon as United find a permanent manager more befitting their status and ambition.
He has done really well since then, with a couple of rocky periods, but it does explain why people bring up this PE teacher thing every time United lose a game, because United doing badly is just confirming that initial view people had of him despite lots of evidence that he's actually a pretty good manager.
Thats because secretly you all know you are a small club and are just happy to be in the mix, we are football elite
Never in a million years are they world class! Most of them are still finding their feet at Chelsea for one. For perspective I'd say United only have one world class player.
Leno's better than Kepa (there's a case for that alone giving Arsenal the edge), Gabriel is better than all our CB's of last season, Tierney is considerably better than Alonso and Emerson, Saka is currently better than all of our wingers of last season bar Pulisic (although I do think CHO has the higher ceiling so you could say Lampard could have done better getting a tune out of him), Auba is better than both Tammy and Giroud, we both have Willian on the right, I'll ignore Partey as he's barely been fit.
Put it this way, had we gone into our transfer ban and lost Hazard summer at the same time Arsenal just beat us in the FA Cup final and signed Gabriel and Partey no one would have given us a prayer of finishing above them, infact they didn't with an (on paper) inferior Arsenal squad.
I think "worldclass" should be used to describe a player, who is in the top 4-5 players of his position,.
Chelsea has a lot of really solid/good players, but not a single player I would describe as a true worldclass player.
Yeah I don’t really buy this “nobody thought Chelsea would get top four” line that seems to have become the accepted narrative @Dancfc
If that’s true, who DID people think would get top four? City and Liverpool, fine. Arguably Spurs. So who was booked for the 4th spot?
I think this idea that Frank had his hands tied doesn’t really stack up. I'll accept 'challenges' due to the transfer ban and losing Hazard, but Pulisic was basically a new signing and was one of your best players last season.
I think you're going to struggle to argue you didn't have a top four squad on a Manchester Utd forum given that we came 3rd despite having to field the following... total PL appearances/(sub appearances)
Scott McTominay 27 (7)
Fred 29 (6)
Andreas Pereira 25 (7)
Dan James 33 (7)
Jesse Lingard 22 (12)
Juan Mata 19 (11)
Brandon Williams 17 (6)
Ashley Young 12 (2)
Odion Ighalo 11 (11)
Marcus Rojo, Axel Tuanzebe, Diogo Dalot, Phil Jones and Timothy Fosu Mensah all started PL games as well.
Pogba only started 13 games. Bruno only 14. Martial and Rashford missed 6 and 7 games respectively. Shaw missed 14.
I mean, I know I'm labouring the point a bit but bloody hell, looking at the state of that it's a wonder we didn't go down never mind finishing 3rd!
Tell us poor souls who had to watch that lot every week how hard you had it 'only' having Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Barkley, CHO, Willian, Pulisic, Mount, RLC, Pedro and Billy Gilmour to choose from in midfield!
I thought Spurs would be there personally, they did just reach the UCL final after all. I don't think anyone would have predicted Poch would be sacked a few months later
You've spectacularly managed to do exactly what you said he was doing by excessively criticising our own players!! Fred, McTominay, Mata and Williams are good enough players, Fred has been excellent at different points. The options you've listed in RLC, CHO, Pedro, Barkley, Jorginho and Willian are all extremely underwhelming and wouldn't feature much for us. Kante isn't the player he was, Kovacic is good as are Mount and Pulisic and Gilmour is promising albeit still just a squirt. You've portrayed it as if the gulf between the two squads/midfields is night and day when it just isn't. We do have dross that got way too much game time but Fred, McTominay, Mata and Williams don't fall under that category, neither does Tuanzebe which was another strange inclusion.
So, your saying the Goal keeper, half the defence, none of the midfield (taking out Partey), & Auba (given that Pulisic is better than Saka & we both had Willian).
So 4 players start out the XI, but our squad is better comparatively?
Certainly not on here there wasn't.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/2019-2020-season-predictions.449654/
Here no one had us higher than 6th if they had us atall.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/top...ere-think-man-united-are-not-all-that.450125/
First few pages here we were at best considered an outside shot.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-top-6-in-order.449619/
The big top 6 thread, the general consensus was we weren't getting top 4 and someone on the first page declared us "in a right state".
Come on, I like McTominay and Fred, to a degree, but you're talking about World Cup winner and PL winner N'Golo Kante, former Real Madrid player Kovacic, England regulars Barkley and Mount... granted RLC, Gilmour and CHO are unproven but they are hardly bad backup options.
I dispute that Mata isn't dross. He might have had a good spell for you guys and he undoubtedly has technical ability but he's actually one of the worst players in our squad for me. I don't think I've ever seen a slower, safer and more ponderous 'attacking' midfielder. Everything he does is sideways and backwards and his lack of pace at times is embarassing.
Williams was a 'needs-must' selection. Again, not a bad player...but come on...he doesn't start for any top 10 PL side and even arguably lower considering how raw he is.
Tuanzebe was more used to highlight the lack of depth. Soon as first team regulars were injured it's either kids, Phil Jones or Marcos Rojo
I don't dispute that the narrative was that Chelsea wouldn't finish top four....I just don't really know why they were so roundly written off when they clearly had one of the best squads in the league. With my 'conspiracy' hat on, I'd say it was the friendly media protecting Frank.
EDIT: we're getting away from the point here though really, which I acknowledge is also down to me sporadically responding to different posters. My point isn't that Chelsea are crap or Frank is crap or we are crap or Ole is crap, just that the fans and the media treat the two managers and two clubs completely different...despite the fact we're largely splitting hairs when comparing the records of the two
Compared to our squad last season you have a more proven scorer, better left back, better CB, better GK. Any advantage we had by having Pulisic is nullified by having Kepa in the nets while you have Leno.
I'm sure I used to sit and argue with my mates about who had the best team. Is this what it's come to? Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd fans arguing for each of their clubs being the sh***est? 
Actually, I think we're all agreed bar @Dancfc that Arsenal are by far 'the sh***est'
Actually, I think we're all agreed bar @Dancfc that Arsenal are by far 'the sh***est'
This Utd forum has a huge number of regular posters, so you're going get a faiirly accurate reflection of how the general fanbase is feeling.
The Chelsea forum has tumbleweed blowing throught it with a relatively tiny number of fans posting, so you're not going to get any kind of accurate reflection of the feelings of the Chelsea fanbase.
There must be a significant percentage of the wider fanbase who are unhappy with the lack of progress over the last 18 months and with the tumescent football being served up.
I think you probably get more 'fair weather' fans on RedCafe compared with The Shed End.
I was a regular at OT until recently (ST holder from 2006 to 2018) and I can assure you the opinions of the majority on RedCafe do not reflect the opinions of the majority in the stadium!
That was a dreadful post. I can’t decide if I want to blame my phone or if I put it down to being annoyed whilst typing. Whatever excuse sounds best.Carry on like this and you won't last long here either
absolutely breezes in.
I think the thing that is helping Frank is people are really focused on Arsenal falling apart and what will happen to Arteta. Ole had the eye of Sauron on him, but seems to have survived.
A PL 23-man squad would have 3 GKs, 3/4 CBs, 3/4 fullbacks, 6 midfielders (including attacking) and 5 forwards (wing+9s).
Fabinho, Bruno, KDB are breezing in for 3/6. Kante would be in contention with Henderson, Pogba, Grealish, James-Ward Prowse, Hojbjerg, Ndidi.
It is not evident at all that Kante is clearly the best of the rest.
Frank needs to seriously have a look at the team and start focusing on players who are best for Chelsea as opposed to his own personal projects. I like Mount but he has been terrible for a few weeks now. Kovacic and Kante is a far superior option and would allow Havertz to actually play further ahead and more central. He’s not a right winger or a central midfielder and the sooner Lampard realised this, the better.
Werner is also a striker and has stated this is his preferred position. Another player signed and shifted about by the tactical genius in charge.
130m of talent being moved around and their confidence destroyed. This is why last year was so successful, there was no pressure on Lampard to fit what he had into a team. Now there is expectation he is badly struggling.
Werner is also a striker and has stated this is his preferred position. Another player signed and shifted about by the tactical genius in charge.
130m of talent being moved around and their confidence destroyed. This is why last year was so successful, there was no pressure on Lampard to fit what he had into a team. Now there is expectation he is badly struggling.
You think it's Mount that should get dropped? I'd say it's Havertz that should be replaced by Kovacic, at his current levels Lampard sticking with him is the very definition of a personal project. Havertz will probably be a very good player in this league someday but at present offers very little to this Chelsea side. Mount, even at his worst, offers dangerous delivery from set pieces and consistent work rate. Maybe Kovacic and Kante next to Havertz will bring out the best in him but he's the one I'd drop if I was Lampard.
Whilst Havertz has been extremely poor, he’s continuously shifted about the pitch to
accommodate. He needs played centrally and ahead of the midfield before true judgement can be made.
accommodate. He needs played centrally and ahead of the midfield before true judgement can be made.
I think Chelsea dropped a huge ball signing this kid when they had Mount and having recently signed Ziyech. What they needed was a DM and CB in their prime, quite like us to be honest, and they had the funds. Now their team looks top heavy but still vulnerable at the back.
Reece James may need a knee operation but they also say he may play against West Ham...
https://theathletic.com/news/chelsea-reece-james-injury-latest/IZlLqIMxHRMy
Would be a big loss for them.
https://theathletic.com/news/chelsea-reece-james-injury-latest/IZlLqIMxHRMy
Would be a big loss for them.