Chelsea in 15/16 revisited.

[FootballHQ]

The are Man. United going to get relegated thread over on the main forum had me mentioning Liverpool in 10/11 as a decent comparison.

I'd actually forgotten that there was even more obvious example of team being threatened by relegation, Chelsea in 15/16.

Mourinho's last game was a 2-1 defeat to Leicester on 14th December 2015.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35023774

As you can see from table they were 3 games away from halfway point of the season and Chelsea had just 15 points and were 1 point above Norwich in 18th.

For all Man. United's issues you're only 6 points off that total already.

Of course it was a bonkers year with Leicester winning the thing but Chelsea being terrible was nearly as bizarre. You're not talking about a United or Liverpool style decline over many years. Chelsea had comfortably won the league the previous season and also reached CL in 13/14. Nor a break up of a team. Hazard and Diego Costa both started that Leicester game and likes of Matic and Fabregas were still good in those times and were also regulars.

I know the narrative is they all downed tools to get Mourinho sacked but even then that should've been only 8th-10th place bad, not 16th. Chelsea had lost at home to newly promoted Bournemouth the previous week.

 

[tentan]

That was such a strange season. In the the modern era I don't think we've ever seen a defending 'big club' champion struggle so much in the following season, and especially with a high profile manager like Mourinho. Will always be a myth why the players and Mourinho fell out where they were all so together the previous season.

 

[Theafonis]

That was such a strange season. In the the modern era I don't think we've ever seen a defending 'big club' champion struggle so much in the following season, and especially with a high profile manager like Mourinho. Will always be a myth why the players and Mourinho fell out where they were all so together the previous season.

I think one issue was that Mourinho drove those players to the ground and hardly ever rotated other than between one of Pedro or Willian, also his tactics had become stale.

 

[adexkola]

I wonder what the Xg table looked like up to Mourinho's sack

 

[bosnian_red]

I wonder what the Xg table looked like up to Mourinho's sack

Not sure if this is a tongue in cheek post... but they were 10th in the xG table when he got sacked, having conceded 7.63 goals more than expected, 7.88 points fewer but only scored 1.5 goals less then xG. United was 6th.

 

[adexkola]

Not sure if this is a tongue in cheek post... but they were 10th in the xG table when he got sacked, having conceded 7.63 goals more than expected, 7.88 points fewer but only scored 1.5 goals less then xG. United was 6th.

It really wasn't although I get why you think it is

I remember reading somewhere that the year Dortmund under Klopp were flirting, on average their performance merited a 4th place. It is a results business at the end of the day but obviously it goes without saying that the Chelsea squad and manager had more quality in them than that torrid run showed.

Another theory I've heard that makes sense is that Chelsea struggled to win games once teams caught onto their counter-attacking approach and were less open against them. It happened to United after the 06/07 season... The difference was that we were also great at dominating matches without needing to counter attack.

 

[Dancfc]

The signs were there in the title run in of 2015, basically every single point gained bar like 6 were thanks to a big moment by either Hazard or Courtois, often both.

I didn't expect things to go as bad as they did but it was very clear we were not far off hitting a major wall.

 

[Casanova85]

I think 17-18 was just as bad for Chelsea.

15-16 was just more dramatic because with Mourinho everything gets blown out of proportion, but the actual fear of relegation was nonsense. It was just another bad season for Mou, the kind that gets him sacked (or gone by May-June). Similar to 2007 in Chelsea or 2013 in Madrid, or 2018 with Utd. It was not about getting relegated (they would have finished 9th-11th), it was about sacking Mou because nobody wanted to work with anymore, the players, the board, the female doctor, etc.

With Ole there's the feeling that he'll do as bad as Moyes. Midtable and out of Europe for 2020-21.

 

[adexkola]

I think 17-18 was just as bad for Chelsea.

15-16 was just more dramatic because with Mourinho everything gets blown out of proportion, but the actual fear of relegation was nonsense. It was just another bad season for Mou, the kind that gets him sacked (or gone by May-June). Similar to 2007 in Chelsea or 2013 in Madrid, or 2018 with Utd. It was not about getting relegated (they would have finished 9th-11th), it was about sacking Mou because nobody wanted to work with anymore, the players, the board, the female doctor, etc.

Under Conte?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Can't compare it. Conte took them to a record breaking title the season after. The quality was always there. We are in much more terrifying territory because we don't have that kind of quality...

 

[bosnian_red]

It really wasn't although I get why you think it is

I remember reading somewhere that the year Dortmund under Klopp were flirting, on average their performance merited a 4th place. It is a results business at the end of the day but obviously it goes without saying that the Chelsea squad and manager had more quality in them than that torrid run showed.

Another theory I've heard that makes sense is that Chelsea struggled to win games once teams caught onto their counter-attacking approach and were less open against them. It happened to United after the 06/07 season... The difference was that we were also great at dominating matches without needing to counter attack.

Yeah I'd be interested to see Fergie's xG stats over the years and see what trends were there. Shame they only started up after he retired.

But yeah Klopp that year had Dortmund 3rd on xG I think but just weren't getting the luck. It happens really, flukes happen for a full year at times but you'll usually get back to normal eventually.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I think 17-18 was just as bad for Chelsea.

15-16 was just more dramatic because with Mourinho everything gets blown out of proportion, but the actual fear of relegation was nonsense. It was just another bad season for Mou, the kind that gets him sacked (or gone by May-June). Similar to 2007 in Chelsea or 2013 in Madrid, or 2018 with Utd. It was not about getting relegated (they would have finished 9th-11th), it was about sacking Mou because nobody wanted to work with anymore, the players, the board, the female doctor, etc.

With Ole there's the feeling that he'll do as bad as Moyes. Midtable and out of Europe for 2020-21.

2007 was a pretty good season for Chelsea. Stayed in the title race until the very end despite serious injuries to key players throughout the season; won the FA Cup; made it to the semis of the CL where they were unlucky to be knocked out on pens. Most fans would bite your hand off if you offered them a season like that.

 

[Casanova85]

2007 was a pretty good season for Chelsea. Stayed in the title race until the very end despite serious injuries to key players throughout the season; won the FA Cup; made it to the semis of the CL where they were unlucky to be knocked out on pens. Most fans would bite your hand off if you offered them a season like that.

I could be wrong, but I was talking about 2007-2008, when Mou got sacked and that interim manager made it to the UCL final (against Utd).

 

[Pete Dahh Sneak]

Combination of factors. I remember Mourinho coming out and saying “Why buy anyone, we’re champions. The other clubs will try to catch up to us.” The stubbornness of only wanting Stones that summer where there was dross everywhere was the first mistake. Relying on Eden who came back outta shape and looking unmotivated was #2. Third was never rotating the squad and not dropping the players who needed to be dropped. Complacency obviously set in but who cares? Not gonna be dropped bc Mou doesn’t play the youf.

Bonus reason: Losing Drogba and Cech in the locker room.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I could be wrong, but I was talking about 2007-2008, when Mou got sacked and that interim manager made it to the UCL final (against Utd).

Ah, fair enough then.

 

[Casanova85]

Ah, fair enough then.

Cheers!

 

[giorno]

The key Chelsea players were still very much with Mourinho when he got sacked in 2007 actually. That was about Abramovich getting tired of Mou, not the players

 

[Skills]

The signs were there at the end of 14/15. They had an outstanding start to the seasons and had basically won the title by Christmas, but then somehow fell into a fake title race in the second half with Hazard dragging them over the line.

 

[Dancfc]

I think 17-18 was just as bad for Chelsea.

Not even close.

As poor as the football was in 17-18 we were skating between 2nd and 5th all season, it's a world away from never getting above 9th and ultimately finishing 10th.

Pound for pound 15/16 was probably the biggest underperformance for a team ever.

 

[Dancfc]

Combination of factors. I remember Mourinho coming out and saying “Why buy anyone, we’re champions. The other clubs will try to catch up to us.” The stubbornness of only wanting Stones that summer where there was dross everywhere was the first mistake. Relying on Eden who came back outta shape and looking unmotivated was #2. Third was never rotating the squad and not dropping the players who needed to be dropped. Complacency obviously set in but who cares? Not gonna be dropped bc Mou doesn’t play the youf.

Bonus reason: Losing Drogba and Cech in the locker room.

While I don't doubt the infulenence they had I'm not sure how much they could have done to stop this, in many ways the rot kicked in while both were still here.

I mean we still had Terry and if it happened under any manager not named Jose first thing we would have said is "Jose wouldn't have let this happen".

 

[Casanova85]

Not even close.

As poor as the football was in 17-18 we were skating between 2nd and 5th all season, it's a world away from never getting above 9th and ultimately finishing 10th.

Pound for pound 15/16 was probably the biggest underperformance for a team ever.

For a "PL Champions squad with the same manager", for sure.

 

[Mb194dc]

Cant see Utd getting anywhere close to relegated.

Simply there are some abysmal sides at the bottom and they'll get far more points than at least 3 teams.

 

[Casanova85]

Cant see Utd getting anywhere close to relegated.

Simply there are some abysmal sides at the bottom and they'll get far more points than at least 3 teams.

But the danger of finishing 8th-10th is real. A de-evolution back to 1990.

 

[Dancfc]

For a "PL Champions squad with the same manager", for sure.

For any team, when was the last time a team underperformed so badly compared to squad quality and value? It was unprecedented.

 

[UweBein]

That was such a strange season. In the the modern era I don't think we've ever seen a defending 'big club' champion struggle so much in the following season, and especially with a high profile manager like Mourinho. Will always be a myth why the players and Mourinho fell out where they were all so together the previous season.

It really was not. From the very first game it became apparent that we had serious problems in defense. Especially with Ivanovic - Mourinho did not react to that at all. We conceded so many goals just because of him. It was a travesty (because Ivanovic was such a great player for Chelsea before that) which Mourinho could not see.

I think one issue was that Mourinho drove those players to the ground and hardly ever rotated other than between one of Pedro or Willian, also his tactics had become stale.

Yes, that was definitely a big point, for me. It was also comical because because Mourinho threatened the established players with "I will play the kids instead". But he himself was too much of a coward to fulfill that promise.

The signs were there in the title run in of 2015, basically every single point gained bar like 6 were thanks to a big moment by either Hazard or Courtois, often both.
I didn't expect things to go as bad as they did but it was very clear we were not far off hitting a major wall.

Yes, we relied heavily on a few players (in both our title wins actually). We were not that good, when we actually won the last two titles.

 

[Dancfc]

It really was not. From the very first game it became apparent that we had serious problems in defense. Especially with Ivanovic - Mourinho did not react to that at all. We conceded so many goals just because of him. It was a travesty (because Ivanovic was such a great player for Chelsea before that) which Mourinho could not see.


Yes, that was definitely a big point, for me. It was also comical because because Mourinho threatened the established players with "I will play the kids instead". But he himself was too much of a coward to fulfill that promise.


Yes, we relied heavily on a few players (in both our title wins actually). We were not that good, when we actually won the last two titles.

Conte's title winning team was far from the best ever but there was atleast a system there. Case in point being we did allright whenever Hazard was out then but under Mourinho it felt like the end of the world if he couldn't play, even domestic cup games vs lower league sides (Bolton, Shrewsbury, Bradford) were either tumescent grinds or worse.

 

[reelworld]

Combination of factors. I remember Mourinho coming out and saying “Why buy anyone, we’re champions. The other clubs will try to catch up to us.” The stubbornness of only wanting Stones that summer where there was dross everywhere was the first mistake. Relying on Eden who came back outta shape and looking unmotivated was #2. Third was never rotating the squad and not dropping the players who needed to be dropped. Complacency obviously set in but who cares? Not gonna be dropped bc Mou doesn’t play the youf.

Bonus reason: Losing Drogba and Cech in the locker room.

Scarily sounds like United this season. At least Chelsea had the luxury of being champions the season before!

 

[UweBein]

Scarily sounds like United this season. At least Chelsea had the luxury of being champions the season before!

Totally unpredictable though. That year felt like there were two Christmases.
But yeah, that way 15/16 did not actually matter - that much.

 

[AshRK]

Conte's title winning team was far from the best ever but there was atleast a system there. Case in point being we did allright whenever Hazard was out then but under Mourinho it felt like the end of the world if he couldn't play, even domestic cup games vs lower league sides (Bolton, Shrewsbury, Bradford) were either tumescent grinds or worse.

I thought you lot were great in the first half of that title winning season. I feel the 5-3 loss to spurs made Jose a bit scared and he started grinding out results. I feel not freshening up your squad after the title win was one of the biggest reasons you lot became stale. Jose completely lost it and players gave zero fecks.

 

[Sky1981]

But the danger of finishing 8th-10th is real. A de-evolution back to 1990.

The danger is relegation.

8th and 10th is a safe spot

 

[Dancfc]

I thought you lot were great in the first half of that title winning season. I feel the 5-3 loss to spurs made Jose a bit scared and he started grinding out results. I feel not freshening up your squad after the title win was one of the biggest reasons you lot became stale. Jose completely lost it and players gave zero fecks.

There was something fundamentally wrong going into that season, we conceded four second half goals to a bunch of teenagers in pre season, it was such a mess I genuinely don't think even Messi would have got us out of it.

My personal take is that Jose stretched every ounce of physical and mental energy to get that title it fecked the whole squad on both levels, so much so Hiddink had to come in and practically run a holiday camp for 6 months so they could recover and go again the season after.

The supposed lack of effort people were seeing was actually lack of energy.

 

[duffer]

"Life is a roller coaster, you've just gotta ride it" - Winston Churchill.

 

[Casanova85]

The danger is relegation.

8th and 10th is a safe spot

Hyperbole!

Relegation means 18th-20th! Show some respect for Man Utd!

 

[Mb194dc]

But the danger of finishing 8th-10th is real. A de-evolution back to 1990.

Possible for a season or two. You're better of getting local lads in the team though long term. Then just buying quality, for a particular style of football for the long term. Need a DOF so managers can't just panic buy players like Sanchez a la Mourinho.

Will take few seasons get back to a good level.

 

[Casanova85]

Possible for a season or two. You're better of getting local lads in the team though long term. Then just buying quality, for a particular style of football for the long term. Need a DOF so managers can't just panic buy players like Sanchez a la Mourinho.

Will take few seasons get back to a good level.

When hell freezes over.

 

[Pete Dahh Sneak]

While I don't doubt the infulenence they had I'm not sure how much they could have done to stop this, in many ways the rot kicked in while both were still here.

I mean we still had Terry and if it happened under any manager not named Jose first thing we would have said is "Jose wouldn't have let this happen".

Agreed, that’s why I didn’t list it along with the 3 main ones, just something that could’ve played a minor role from an outsider’s perspective.

 

[Sky1981]

Hyperbole!

Relegation means 18th-20th! Show some respect for Man Utd!

Respect? here we are predicting top 6 is a miracle for Manchester United