Choosing to go 2nd for the shootout

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
19,529
Supports
Mejbri
I'm not going to pretend it was the difference, but generally, a pretty crazy decision by Bruno. Couldn't believe it when I saw it. It's the reason they came up with that terrible changed format of shootouts that's thankfully been shelved. Because it's a clear advantage to go first.

Reminded me of when the players decided amongst themselves who'd be taking pens. Some things should be absolutely clear to the players and not down to how they feel in the moment.
 
What's wrong with the ABBA method of shootouts? I don't think they should have shelved that.
 
I'm chalking it down to this underdog thing we've got going on. Like when we start playing better after going behind, or when we're away from home.

It has to be linked, right? The method behind the madness.
 
Was quite incredible. I dare say it showed another little detail we just hadn't planned for which is mad for a final
 
I must admit, I found it hard to believe he passed first penalty to them. Hindsight etc. etc. but surely you grab the initiative.
 
The worst thing is that we ended up taking second penalties and in front of the villareal end. That is absolutely ridiculous
 
Bruno didn't turn up for the whole 2 hours of football, and then decided to add massive pressure to our team by choosing that we should go second for the shootout.

Braindead.

Should not be our captain when Maguire is out.
 
I don't think it would have made a heap of difference but surely you should take every advantage possible. Definitely made it easier for them to score penalties, right in front of their fans too.
 
That was astounding. They must have discussed this at some point before the game?!
 
Gave them the first penalty AND let them have it in front of their fans. Complete crazy decision. Whether that is on Bruno or the management who knows.
 
Really bizarre move, yeah. No idea what that was about.
 
Commentator was saying that there were two tosses, one to pick the side and one to pick the order and that we lost both? Not sure if true.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Gave them the first penalty AND let them have it in front of their fans. Complete crazy decision. Whether that is on Bruno or the management who knows.
Click to expand...

No, Albiol won the first toss. That would have been a sackable offense had he chosen that :lol: he's of course unsackable, but you know..

Vidyoyo said:
I'm chalking it down to this underdog thing we've got going on. Like when we start playing better after going behind, or when we're away from home.

It has to be linked, right? The method behind the madness.
Click to expand...

I subscribe to your theory :D what's the line of thinking "it's so counterintuitive and stupid that it surely must work!"?
 
RonaldoVII said:
Is it not all one toss? May as well have let them win both given the choice Bruno made!
Click to expand...

Haha. No that ref tossed it twice, first for which goal, then for Bruno to gift them the other advantage.
 
Siorac said:
What's wrong with the ABBA method of shootouts? I don't think they should have shelved that.
Click to expand...


The music was a distraction.

Both teams should go at the same time at opposite ends. Then you have none of this first/second nonsense.
 
So he chooses first and we lose.
There's a thread for 'choosing to go first in the shootout'

Jesus Christ :wenger:
 
Can’t believe Ole didn’t tell him to go first if given the chance. Also can’t believe he didn’t think about it himself. Another confirmation he is not captain material (very good player and fine as vice captain).
 
Sunny Jim said:
What were the other details? Honest question.
Click to expand...

Im not saying all of these should be implemented, but:

We left ourselves with no plan b through our selection

Strong case Henderson should have been on late on, not figuring that out on the spot it should have been a clear ready made call a la Van Gaal.

We let their 30 goal striker have a free run at goal for their only shot on target, playing an absurdly high line for a non threatening free kick, suggesting that yet again we neglected set piece work

Every detail from small to large is important and arguably the small ones hurt us most last night
 
big rons sovereign said:
So he chooses first and we lose.
There's a thread for 'choosing to go first in the shootout'

Jesus Christ :wenger:
Click to expand...

There wouldn't be. This is a well studied topic in sports science with alot of thought indicating going second is a disadvantage
 
SER19 said:
There wouldn't be. This is a well studied topic in sports science with alot of thought indicating going second is a disadvantage
Click to expand...
Of course there bloody would be.
There's a whiny thread for everything that can be used to beat anybody with.
It's ridiculous.

What's next, why did ole wear that tie?
 
Is this confirmed? I just can’t believe he’d be that daft.

Kicking second in front of their fans, I’m amazed we lasted as long as we did.
 
Appreciate going first had some advantage, but did it really matter?

Once the 90 minutes were up Villarreal knew they could now win, it was reflected in their faces and the way they set about the extra time ;they had taken the 2nd team in the EPL to this point and were still standing with four or five fresh pair of legs to see them through.

In the grand scheme of things Bruno's mistake in choosing to go second was minor, by that time I suspect most United players had in their heads already lost and their body language confirmed it... " once more into the breech" was never on.
 
I never realised it was us who made the choice. That's mental
 
Yeah, there's a lot of research that went into this. I think it was something like over 60% of teams that choose to go first wins. I mean, it's a pretty simple psychological trick, really. Why the feck we would pick second I have no idea. Was it Bruno who choose it, or Ole?
 
I thought when I was watching it that Bruno had won the toss to choose the order but then when I realised we were kicking 2nd I thought no there’s no way he’d purposely choose that everyone knows you go first, everyone apart from Bruno. :wenger:
 
Not sure if it's true, but seen in on Twitter. Incredibly dumb if we did. Think it's been proven to have a 20% advantage if you shoot first? Logical anyway. The pressure of shooting 2nd to catch up to your opponent is what fecks you eventually (even though we scored ours brilliantly, but the bigger thing was Villareal never having that same pressure on them in the shootout).
 
Generally speaking you should always go first but on this occasion with all outfield players netting I'm not sure you can claim there was an impact really.

DDG choosing not to at least throw himself around a bit was a far bigger influence
 
Red_Aaron said:
Generally speaking you should always go first but on this occasion with all outfield players netting I'm not sure you can claim there was an impact really.

DDG choosing not to at least throw himself around a bit was a far bigger influence
Click to expand...
While it’s true we still scored, we don’t know what impact the pressure being on them having to score would’ve had.
 
Also pretty sure there were two coin tosses.

Surely he’s not that stupid?

On a totally separate note. Did we ever get a replay of the potential pen on Greenwood? Looked a penalty to me.
 
big rons sovereign said:
Of course there bloody would be.
There's a whiny thread for everything that can be used to beat anybody with.
It's ridiculous.

What's next, why did ole wear that tie?
Click to expand...

I agree with you mostly but i consider myself more level headed and was genuinely surprised we went second
 
Oranges038 said:
The music was a distraction.

Both teams should go at the same time at opposite ends. Then you have none of this first/second nonsense.
Click to expand...
:lol:

I don't really like the idea of simultaneous penalties. As a spectacle, it's just too overwhelming.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.