City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

YikesSchmeics

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Of course they won't be banished forever, nor should they be. Let's not forget its their owners who cheated. So while they need punished and hopefully a forced change of ownership their fans don't deserve to see their club banned forever.
To be quite honest, every single conga dancing, banana waving, gloat merchant in that fanbase, who vehemently defends the owners and shuts every 115 discussion down with "cry" or waffle about grass length, deserves everything that they get.

As far as I'm concerned we should be putting the year counter banner back up, with an asterisks beside it, and disregard every single trophy they have won under that ownership.
 
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Changeisgood

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They deserve all their trophies taken away and assigned to another club called 115 charge City. In all fairness they do not deserve those trophies. I dont care a whole lot about relegation, even if it benefits us. It is all about what they won...take back that CL too...although that's for UEFA to deal with and I guess it is too late there.

There needs to be a clear message. I find the entertaining of the thought that the PL is in the wrong going after City pretty humorous. You follow rules. Doctors have to follow the medical staff hospital bylaws...football clubs follow the PL. Lots of entities have bylaws out there, and it seems to me they are likely guilty of cooking the books the books in various ways if not more, so f them. I personally believe the govt should investigate the matter further.
 

stevoc

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To be quite honest, every single conga dancing, banana waving, gloat merchant in that fanbase, who vehemently defends the owners and shuts every 115 discussion down with "cry" or waffle about grass length, deserves everything that they get.

As far as I'm concerned we should be putting the year counter banner back up, with an asterisks beside it, and disregard every single trophy they have won under that ownership.
That would boil their piss more than anything.

:lol:
 

iammemphis

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They deserve all their trophies taken away and assigned to another club called 115 charge City. In all fairness they do not deserve those trophies. I dont care a whole lot about relegation, even if it benefits us. It is all about what they won...take back that CL too...although that's for UEFA to deal with and I guess it is too late there.

There needs to be a clear message. I find the entertaining of the thought that the PL is in the wrong going after City pretty humorous. You follow rules. Doctors have to follow the medical staff hospital bylaws...football clubs follow the PL. Lots of entities have bylaws out there, and it seems to me they are likely guilty of cooking the books the books in various ways if not more, so f them. I personally believe the govt should investigate the matter further.
Personally i don't think the trophies would be awarded to anyone retrospectively. The Italian FA didn't when they relegated Juve, they just scratched those years from the records instead.
 

YikesSchmeics

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Personally i don't think the trophies would be awarded to anyone retrospectively. The Italian FA didn't when they relegated Juve, they just scratched those years from the records instead.
I agree, void them BUT the Italian FA awarded I think 1 of them to Inter, then voided the other 1. Maybe the numbers are wrong but Inter, and ironically, Mancini, were given at least 1 default title.
 

Red the Bear

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Personally i don't think the trophies would be awarded to anyone retrospectively. The Italian FA didn't when they relegated Juve, they just scratched those years from the records instead.
2004 was voided while 2005 was given to inter.
 

lysglimt

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I have been a United fan for over 30 years, since Cantona first signed for the club.

I've seen the rivalries and the battles over the years, but nothing in football makes me as angry as Manchester City and what they have done - and are continuing to do - to this league.

It is absolutely abhorrent that this small time, mid table club was able to become a powerhouse in world football purely down to blatant and obvious cheating. Their *treble was one of the most nauseating things I'd ever seen, especially all of the articles fawning over Guardiola - whilst continually ignoring how they got there in the first place. Not to mention they won the CL in a season where they shouldn't have even been in the CL in the first place.

Nobody seemed to care when they were purchased by the Sheikh, as we were the dominant team in the league at the time, and therefore they weren't fussed if they upset United's dominance. So they've allowed this monster to be created by allowing this awful owner to buy the club who expects to get his own way all of the time, and refuses to be told "no" about anything. Now, it's come back to bite them in a big way.

If this rotten, evil little club somehow squirm their way out of this, the league is as good as over.

Let's hope that they lose this case, the 115 charges stick, and that this rotten club is banished forever so that the game can finally have a chance to recover.
I actually prefer Liverpool winning the league next year, if the other alternative is City. I hate City extra much for making me feel that way.
 

DixieDean

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They are probably going to get away with it due to government pressure. Like what happened with Newcastle. Just again proving that a state, dictatorship or not, should NEVER be allowed to own a football club. And it's disgrace they are allowed to.

Football in this country is rotten to the core. I've said it before, but the whole thing needs nuking and starting again. Broken beyond repair.
 

Red the Bear

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What was the reason for voiding one and awarding the other out of interest?
It was controversial, die hard juve gans claim the federation was in on it with inter considering the latter finished third in both of those season behind Milan and juve.

In my opinion both of them should have been voided if they were going for that approach.
 

TrailMonkey

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Simon Jordan (on TalkSport) quite rightly laying into Shitty and their owners this morning. He'd like to see them expelled from the league but obv can't see it happening.
 

Changeisgood

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Personally i don't think the trophies would be awarded to anyone retrospectively. The Italian FA didn't when they relegated Juve, they just scratched those years from the records instead.
I would be fine with that personally. Not taking away trophies means you are saying you still won even though you cheated.
 

RoyH1

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I would be fine with that personally. Not taking away trophies means you are saying you still won even though you cheated.
I'd love it if they kept them as winners but with a big fat asterisk next to it. Would be even better than giving the title to the runner up.
 

Sgreddevil

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I'd love it if they kept them as winners but with a big fat asterisk next to it. Would be even better than giving the title to the runner up.
I would rather the titles to be stripped and leave a void there with an asterisk saying title holder stripped due to serious fraudulent & violation of rules. This will be a reminder to all future generation of their dirty past.
If it is given to the 2nd place team, it won't have the impact and doesn't really benefit the other teams at all.
 

Woziak

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If you are domiciled in the UK you have to pay tax on global income, wherever it accrues. You can deduct foreign tax expenses in cases where there's a treaty to avoid double taxation.

It doesn't matter where your bank account is. It makes it harder to establish the taxable income, sure, but if it materialises somehow e.g. via Panama Papers or similar, you are up the creek as you would have lied in your tax return.

You can make the case that you are NOT domiciled in the UK but elsewhere, have no intention to stay, etc. In that case you get taxed on the greater of income received in the UK (i.e. paid into a UK bank account) or the share of global income corresponding to days you spent in the UK.

However, non-domiciled status can only be claimed for three years and I'd guess most players (maybe not managers) have contracts that run for longer than that so they probably dismiss the non-dom argument outright.
Yes however the part that people are missing he is being paid in the UAE for work in the UAE, it was mentioned that a lot of city recruits would be asked to do 3 or 4 days ambassadors work in the contract with a separate contract for the players manager self employed company, so if they earned money in the US for 3 or 4 days work they would have to pay US tax on the payment which would normally be paid into a us bank account, he would only be liable for UK tax if the money was paid from a US company into a UK bank account.

Since there is no income tax in the Middle East and some players/managers like Manchini would 100% been shown how to set up a UAE bank account to facilitate these payments, providing he has proof that he attended the country to work, there is very little HMRC or the PL can do even though it’s clearly wrong.

It’s not a far fetched stretch to think that City during their early years made alternative and additional payments to circumnavigate FFP rules at the time, if and it’s a big if, because as yet no one has come forward with any proof, City said to Mancini that we can only pay you £6m yearly salary for 4 years in the UK to be complicit in PL rules and UK tax law but to make your salary up to the £10m that you want we will create a secondary ambassadorial contract and pay you in the UAE tax free a further equivalent to £4m and we’ll make sure that all the photo shoots and pre season tours are conveniently located in Abu Dhabi prior to the season start, I very much doubt the current Uk government, especially with how much they rely on the Middle East would ask HMRC to go after non UK residents for incomes that may or may not have been earned In foreign countries?
 

antohan

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Yes however the part that people are missing he is being paid in the UAE for work in the UAE, it was mentioned that a lot of city recruits would be asked to do 3 or 4 days ambassadors work in the contract with a separate contract for the players manager self employed company, so if they earned money in the US for 3 or 4 days work they would have to pay US tax on the payment which would normally be paid into a us bank account, he would only be liable for UK tax if the money was paid from a US company into a UK bank account.

Since there is no income tax in the Middle East and some players/managers like Manchini would 100% been shown how to set up a UAE bank account to facilitate these payments, providing he has proof that he attended the country to work, there is very little HMRC or the PL can do even though it’s clearly wrong.

It’s not a far fetched stretch to think that City during their early years made alternative and additional payments to circumnavigate FFP rules at the time, if and it’s a big if, because as yet no one has come forward with any proof, City said to Mancini that we can only pay you £6m yearly salary for 4 years in the UK to be complicit in PL rules and UK tax law but to make your salary up to the £10m that you want we will create a secondary ambassadorial contract and pay you in the UAE tax free a further equivalent to £4m and we’ll make sure that all the photo shoots and pre season tours are conveniently located in Abu Dhabi prior to the season start, I very much doubt the current Uk government, especially with how much they rely on the Middle East would ask HMRC to go after non UK residents for incomes that may or may not have been earned In foreign countries?
No, if you are domiciled in the UK and go for 10 days to the UAE to do work in the UAE and get paid in the UAE you still have to declare that income and pay tax on it. If the UAE doesn't tax you that makes it even easier and far less protracted.

Of course, you can skip it and consider it untraceable, but if it gets traced or there is sufficient proof from all the 115 charges investigations you have a bigger problem than the tax due. You've lied to HMRC.

Mancini isn't the best example as he may well have made the case for non-dom successfully. There's no way they non-dom someone like Agüero applying for a work permit with a 5 year contract in hand.
 

Adz_99

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. City are a horrible soulless entity. The most plastic of the plastic clubs. I know people joke about them being formed in 2008 but it's true isn't it. They're the MK Don's of the Premier League. The kind of club who could die off tomorrow and would be missed by basically nobody.

I would love nothing more than to see them booted down the pyramid and their owners piss off for good. At least the league seems to be more robust now against this kind of state owned financial doping, Newcastle for all their faults seem to be doing things by the book so I hope we're future proofed from this happening again.
 

Top_Bins

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It's only a matter of time before they claim a jealous campaign of hate has been started by the 'cartel' when they ultimately get booed and chanted 'cheats' at every away day and by visiting away fans. When the whole world knows what you are, there's no shaking it off.
 

McTerminator

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I actually prefer Liverpool winning the league next year, if the other alternative is City. I hate City extra much for making me feel that way.
Been saying this for years. At least the scousers have a genuine football club. You can respect them.
 

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ScholesyTheWise

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Again, you can believe your records aren't actually broken, though they actually are, and no, they won't actully be punished either.

But hey, better than having "annoying" Arsenal-fans winning a trophy or two, right?

Jeez, the amount of cope on this forum is unreal.
Do you think, based on what we know, that they have broken the law?

I get your view that they indeed will be rememberd as the team who set all these new records, and only current fans of their rivals will keep caring about the "aesterisks".

But, should they get punished, I believe it'd be a different story.

I'm not much of a follower of Italian football, but I don't think the Championship that Juve won just before the cheating scandal broke are taken with the same gravity or seriousness as other titles they have won since.

It does have an effect.

The PL would put itself in a very inconvenient position if they don't punish City.
 

DarkLord1984

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Been saying this for years. At least the scousers have a genuine football club. You can respect them.
That's what I've always appreciated about Liverpool - though the rivalry is fierce, there has always been grudging respect between the two clubs, as each recognizes the other as being a genuinely big club.

Though I don't like Klopp for obvious reasons (and I'm bloody glad he's finally gone) there was always respect there for what he achieved with that Liverpool team, and fair play to them, they won the League and CL fair and square.

With Guardiola and City there's no respect as it's all obtained illegally. They can't really expect us to believe that they only paid 51 million for Haaland. They're so corrupt it's not funny.

A lot of the "fans" that follow City are the type of people who use aimbot in multiplayer video games, and then mock the other players for losing. Just shit humans in general.
 
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NotChatGPT

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That's what I've always appreciated about Liverpool - though the rivalry is fierce, there has always been grudging respect between the two clubs, as each recognizes the other as being a genuinely big club.

Though I don't like Klopp for obvious reasons (and I'm bloody glad he's finally gone) there was always respect there for what he achieved with that Liverpool team, and fair play to them, they won the League and CL fair and square.

With Guardiola and City there's no respect as it's all obtained illegally. They can't really expect us to believe that they only paid 51 million for Haaland. They're so corrupt it's not funny.

A lot of the "fans" that follow City are the type of people who use aimbot in multiplayer video games, and then mock the other players for losing. Just shit humans in general.
Not sure why people keep bringing up the Haaland transfer. The structure of the deal is well known and it was also well known when he first joined Dortmund. Dortmund agreed to a contract where they would get him for a certain amount of years until his release clause kicked in, where they would then get a less than 50% of the total «transfer fee», where the rest of the transfer fee is agent fees to Raiolas company and Haalands father. In reality the fee was over £110mill. Haaland&Co wanted an agent that would bring in as much money as possible and Raiola was well known for doing exactly that. Every contract extension, every transfer, Raiolas company and Haalands father will bank millions.
 

noelyman

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Not sure why people keep bringing up the Haaland transfer. The structure of the deal is well known and it was also well known when he first joined Dortmund. Dortmund agreed to a contract where they would get him for a certain amount of years until his release clause kicked in, where they would then get a less than 50% of the total «transfer fee», where the rest of the transfer fee is agent fees to Raiolas company and Haalands father. In reality the fee was over £110mill. Haaland&Co wanted an agent that would bring in as much money as possible and Raiola was well known for doing exactly that. Every contract extension, every transfer, Raiolas company and Haalands father will bank millions.
People keep bringing up the Haaland transfer because despite the player being hugely in demand and seemingly available for a bargain fee. There was no scramble for his signature. If it was such a cut price deal why didn't we hear about all the teams that were lined up to sign him. City signed him pretty much on the quiet. Most of us think that the situation just like City's declared finances, doesn't quite add up.
 

NotChatGPT

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People keep bringing up the Haaland transfer because despite the player being hugely in demand and seemingly available for a bargain fee. There was no scramble for his signature. If it was such a cut price deal why didn't we hear about all the teams that were lined up to sign him. City signed him pretty much on the quiet. Most of us think that the situation just like City's declared finances, doesn't quite add up.
Ehm, but everyone knew he wasn't available for a bargain fee. The total costs of the transfer fees was over £110mill. Just because Dortmund got less than 50% of that it doesn't mean that the overall fee was a fecking bargain. Plenty of clubs were in contact with Raiola, just as they were in contact before he joined Dortmund in the first place, but not many clubs are going to accept deals where they end up losing the player for feck all in return for him potentially scoring a lot of goals over a short period of time at the club.

Also, there are rarely public scrambles for signatures, just as there's hardly any bidding.

There's nothing in it.
 

MegadrivePerson

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People keep bringing up the Haaland transfer because despite the player being hugely in demand and seemingly available for a bargain fee. There was no scramble for his signature. If it was such a cut price deal why didn't we hear about all the teams that were lined up to sign him. City signed him pretty much on the quiet. Most of us think that the situation just like City's declared finances, doesn't quite add up.
The Haaland deal cost at least £260 million in total.

£51 million fee.
£40 million to his agent.
£30 million to his dad.
£140 million over five years of his contract.

That's just what we know of. Some reports have his contract closer to £230 million over five years!
 

stevoc

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The Haaland deal cost at least £260 million in total.

£51 million fee.
£40 million to his agent.
£30 million to his dad.
£140 million over five years of his contract.

That's just what we know of. Some reports have his contract closer to £230 million over five years!
And that's just the official accounts.
 

RedRocket9908

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This is going nowhere and neither are Abu Dhabi's city project.
How do you know this? Its highly unlikely City will be succesfull in their ridiculous court action thats currently ongoing and there is still a very real possibility that they will be found guilty and expelled when the face their hearing for the 115 charges in November.
 

Sandikan

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The Haaland deal cost at least £260 million in total.

£51 million fee.
£40 million to his agent.
£30 million to his dad.
£140 million over five years of his contract.

That's just what we know of. Some reports have his contract closer to £230 million over five years!
You wonder how on earth it's legal for a fee to go to 3 different parties like that.