City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[mandroid]

Yeah because we never went in on Chelsea when they got oil money while we were winning titles and the CL

sure a mention here and there, but definitely no 89 page long thread and still going on...

 

[Silverman]

Sky Sports are insufferable talking about them. No mention of the 115 charges against them to allow them to get to where they are now.

 

[Muninman]

They should receive a joint punishment with Barcelona. The two of them can play each other every week for a season in a super league of two. The winner gets promoted to Saudi Arabia. The loser gets abolished.

I mentioned to one of my City fan friends that the full implication of state ownership is some kind of franchise or transfer of the club somewhere else (like US sports teams have done). He laughed it off, but it is a possibility. Apart from the City of Manchester stadium and Foden, which bit of City has any link with the city? The Euro superleague, which will happen unless there is a concerted effort by the big European governments, may just be the start. 'Manchester' City playing their 'home' games in Abu Dhabi! It would be terrible and hilarious in equal measure. The fact is they can't fill their stadium in Manchester, so why not?

 

[Trumpeter Whydah]

While I'm prepared to agree that it's unlikely, I do think there's some chance that the book will be thrown at them.

The Premier League has one thing going for it above all else: its reputation for competition and a uniformly high level. It has been a league that is either not dominated by any one team, or dominated by one team because that club clearly deserves to rule English football on a premise of fairness that is understood in English culture. I'm not just fellating myself in saying that, I'm not English, but it's a country that does have a measure of belief in the notion that success and power ought to be earned. Probably stems from times when such a thing was won militarily. The sun never sets on bla-bla.

And while one would be silly to think that England still embodies that wholeheartedly, I do think that football is the place that has it closest to heart. It certainly isn't politics, so let's say it's football. There's still pride in being the tough, competitive league where it takes a little more to excel, and where there's only pride in earning it the traditional way, as opposed to just being successful because it was automatically granted. There's all this talk of whether or not some foreign player can make it in the Premier League. There's even some merit to that, although it's not as true now as it may have been in the days of Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira and Vinnie Jones. It's still part of the culture of English football. It isn't yet gone altogether.

For that reason, there's some hope (but no guarantee) that this notion will be taken into account when it comes to the investigation of MCFC. If they choose not to, they know that they're giving up the last vestiges of what used to represent English football. There's not so much of it left these days, but it isn't entirely gone, and selling out entirely to a human rights sportswashing effort will mean that nobody can ever again evoke that spirit. It would be right, in that event, to laugh mockingly at anyone who says that there's anything special about the Prem.

I do think that at least some of the people charged with the decision in question would keep that in mind. Whether or not that'll be enough to make the decision that anyone with any sense knows is right, that remains to be seen. But I don't think it's hopeless, or gullible to hope for it. It takes a willfully blind person to call City innocent, and it comes with a declaration that English football is nothing special anymore, and that whoever has enough money can erase all that used to make it special. I do think that there's still enough resistance to that in English culture to make the right decision.

It's still the country behind the Magna Carta and the declaration of war in 1939. That's not entirely gone yet. It's still a small piece of what makes up the English football heritage, i.e. that it's rooted in real culture and deserves to be representative of the people's voice. Even if eight tenths of that notion has been eroded by money, I really think that they won't let money scour away the last two tenths, because everyone knows that City are guilty.

My man! Only thing you forgot mentioning were the pirates at sea, the spider mule, and railroads connecting the Free Men!

A really interesting and thoughtful post, as as an Englishman (with a lot of Welsh and some Irish) ancestry, I would agree with those comments about the culture of fair play, 'playing the game', etc.
However, I think the sad fact is that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. The UK has been largely ruled by neoliberals / neo-cons / libertarians since 1979, and I would include Tony Blair as fundamentally a neoliberal. Deregulation is the norm; markets are essentially fetishized; and money rules everything. I think I am correct in stating that the Edwards family were one of the first to end the model of private ownership when they floated United to save their meat business in the early 1980s. In this they were guided by MU director professor Roland Smith. Once that genie was out of the bottle it is difficult to go back unless, like City, wealthy and corrupt states are willing to sink in billions. And then control is lost completely.

The top clubs themselves were only too eager to remove themselves from the restrictions and regulations of the Football League and get their hands on more of the TV and advertising money, hence the emergence of the Premier League. It was extremely unlikely that the then Major neoliberal government (although he WAS a sports fan - but favoured cricket) would intervene when they were busy selling off virtually every UK asset like public utilities and transport systems.

I think it would take a very brave government to take charge of the current mess. I think there would be three main considerations / barriers: first, the clubs would probably challenge any legislation as a restriction on trade. The clubs cannot be viewed in isolation from European competition, etc, so that might be a challenge to any form of regulation unless it was Europe wide as some posters have suggested. And perhaps most importantly, in terms of UK wealth and prestige, the Premier League is one of the few success stories over the last few decades. But the last point does support your consideration that it needs to retain its Englishness and competitiveness to remain attractive.

I know there have been some City fans acknowledging personal disquiet at what has happened to City, and some of my City friends share those concerns, but any truly reflective fan must wonder what this current outfit, owned by Abu Dhabi, with a virtually non-English management and coaching staff, a different ground and virtually no connection with the former club except the colour of the shirt. In what sense is it the same club. Do we want that for United?

Dare I say that Swiss non-mainstream media use to portray Brexit as a potential start into your supponed direction?

Although in the middle of continental Europe, we sort of share with GB a self-understanding of being islanders. Us being surrounded by four former empires that to this day seem to struggle with the loss of influence they once enjoyed, and for the better part spared from the misery of two world wars, and having gone through a period of relative wealth, obtained by a generation of hard working people who knew all too well where we came from - poverty - we deeply feel what isolates us from our neighbors with their aristocratic culture remains. Nice to read the spirit lives on on your island, let me toast you from ours.

 

[Muninman]

My man! Only thing you forgot mentioning were the pirates at sea, the spider mule, and railroads connecting the Free Men!


Dare I say that Swiss non-mainstream media use to portray Brexit as a potential start into your supponed direction?

Although in the middle of continental Europe, we sort of share with GB a self-understanding of being islanders. Us being surrounded by four former empires that to this day seem to struggle with the loss of influence they once enjoyed, and for the better part spared from the misery of two world wars, and having gone through a period of relative wealth, obtained by a generation of hard working people who knew all too well where we came from - poverty - we deeply feel what isolates us from our neighbors with their aristocratic culture remains. Nice to read the spirit lives on on your island, let me toast you from ours.

Greetings to Switzerland. Brexit was the end point of neoliberalism, not the start. But it certainly makes European wide legislation harder to enact.

 

[Traub]

They'll probably get fined and a transfer ban at most, then the fans will carry on believing they're not guilty like with the UEFA case

Yes a summer and winter transfer ban, with the summer ban being ‘postponed’ whilst appeals go on. After which it will end up being a winter ban only when no one does business anyway.

 

[Moriarty]

Shearer's the last person to call it out when he's banking on Newcastle following the same model.

Shearer's after a bit of that Saudi scratch. He's not going to say anything to upset them.

 

[Idxomer]

Shearer's after a bit of that Saudi scratch. He's not going to say anything to upset them.

He's certainly already on their payroll.

 

[Moriarty]

He's certainly already on their payroll.

Probably first in the queue with his hand out.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Mentioned in passing by Gary Lineker on MotD. Glossed over by Shearer.

Discussion over, move on.

Basically, no one gives a shit. They'll get away with it, no doubt about it.

Saw that, I think Shearer just said something along the lines of - it's not the players though is it. Lineker agreed, and they moved on.

Ulterior motive, or of their depth talking about it, there is no appetite amongst most of the TV fluff media to say anything it seems.

 

[Lay]

Sky Sports are insufferable talking about them. No mention of the 115 charges against them to allow them to get to where they are now.

They bank on the EPL and to have the most dominant team in the league being corrupt makes the league look shite. That doesn't fit the narrative they want which is all is rosy in the EPL.

 

[Tender Teacher]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both Manchester United and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

 

[I’m loving my life]

They sure will get away with it. It's a sad state, sucks when cheaters prosper and it happens too much.

As football is now a free for all you can understand why United fans have come to terms with swapping a bunch of leeches for a nation state.

The only way to combat it is to drop out of all FIFA/FA/UEFA competition and start a new one off.

 

[FrankDrebin]

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'hope no one gets hurt'

Wild scenes.
Think I saw a kid take a selfie. Mental.

 

[Pintu]

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[Salt Bailly]

If Man Utd were doing good on field, Man Utd fans wont even mention city's financial doping, but at the moment thats the only stick they are left to beat man city with. And, they dont want anyone to talk abt the fact that Man Utd's net expenditure easily matches city's or even higher....fact is pep has totally transformed man city and Man Utd are jut playing catchup game now and it can easily be decades for them before they win title, and thats why all this bitterness. Fans all over the world just want to see their teams playing fantastic football , scoring goals and winning titles...and only one team in manchester seems to be doing all that at the moment, while fans of other one are left with no choice but to badmouth city's success...

1/10
Must try harder.

 

[The Irish Connection]

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Best thing he’s said in years.

 

[sebsheep]

1/10
Must try harder.

To be fair the people we really need to hear from regarding cheating allegations are definitely Barca fans.

 

[cyberman]

Just showed their bus driving through and there’s more in my house than standing there. They had police watching the road and everything

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Just showed their bus driving through and there’s more in my house than standing there. They had police watching the road and everything

Yeah but that ring road traffic, etc.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Saw that, I think Shearer just said something along the lines of - it's not the players though is it. Lineker agreed, and they moved on.

Ulterior motive, or of their depth talking about it, there is no appetite amongst most of the TV fluff media to say anything it seems.

The players wouldn't be, wouldn't have even considered City as an option, if they hadn't cheated their way there.

Pep hadn't even heard of City 10 years ago.

 

[Sassy Colin]

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'hope no one gets hurt'

It's a sunny Saturday afternoon, most of their support is local, and they can't muster more than 100 or so fans to celebrate outside the ground.

Can you imagine how many Barcelona, or Bayern, fans, who are used to winning regularly, would be celebrating outside the ground when they win the league?

The richest club in the World.

 

[Silverman]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both ourselves and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

There's only one thing pathetic about your post mate

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

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You know it’s a sad state of affairs when Richard fecking Keys is speaking sense.

 

[roonster09]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both ourselves and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

So pathetic, general fan rather than particular team and then calls ManUtd as "ourselves" when talking about wages.

Only thing more pathetic is, how ashamed you are to admit that you are City fan. Pretend as ManUtd fan to praise City

Are you one of those guys who puts nail polish on one hand and take a pic pretending that you are with a girl?

 

[Ayoba]

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Jesus Christ, I need a shower! Feel dirty actually agreeing with Keys here!

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

So pathetic, general fan rather than particular team and then calls ManUtd as "ourselves" when talking about wages.

Only thing more pathetic is, how ashamed you are to admit that you are City fan. Pretend as ManUtd fan to praise City

Are you one of those guys who puts nail polish on one hand and take a pic pretending that you are with a girl?

Oof. Serious burns

 

[Rayman96]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both ourselves and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

You would think Pep would try to be a bit more subtle with his first post

 

[Fortitude]

"Best bench the Prem' has ever seen."

Well no shit. And how did that come about?

Sky have no shame.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I still think they'll be relegated... Financial doping just shouldn't be a thing. It doesn't happen is US sports in the same way because they realise long term it damages the product a lot.

Football needs to sort it self out. It shouldn't be mainly an economic competition, need sort it at UEFA level as well as notionally. Need a team level salary cap, easy to enforce and will level the playing field financially to a large degree. Sort the structure out so all clubs accept it.

They will never get relegated. The PL don't have the balls to kick them out.

The salary cap just wouldn't work when we know City have been paying its employees two salaries. Nothing to stop Newcastle or others doing the same.

 

[Quagmire Maguire]

I was just about to post the bein sports pundits talking about it.

 

[Mb194dc]

They will never get relegated. The PL don't have the balls to kick them out.

The salary cap just wouldn't work when we know City have been paying its employees two salaries. Nothing to stop Newcastle or others doing the same.

No one knows and that's not what they're being accused of. Just of inflating revenue.

Of course it can work. More so if you sanction (ban) players, managers as well as the club for rule breaks.

 

[arthurka]

Nothing to see here.. on it goes

 

[stevoc]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both ourselves and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

Ourselves?

 

[JPRouve]

So pathetic, general fan rather than particular team and then calls ManUtd as "ourselves" when talking about wages.

Only thing more pathetic is, how ashamed you are to admit that you are City fan. Pretend as ManUtd fan to praise City

Are you one of those guys who puts nail polish on one hand and take a pic pretending that you are with a girl?

That's not a thing.

 

[OleGunnar20]

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Jesus christ, Richard keys the lone voice of reason. Madness.

Spot on though fair play.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Why is it taking so long for any action or conclusion?
Took the EPL 4 years to gather evidence, then announce 115 charges, then nothing?!
I’ve seen stories saying it could be 2027 before anything is done.
I can only imagine that City have had their lawyers shut it all down as best they can and that’s why it’s all gone quiet.
Speculation and hearsay is going to circle until this is resolved.
Surely it’s in everyone’s best interest to have this resolved quickly? Otherwise it is going to hang over the EPL like a big question mark for god knows how long.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is more a general fan of English football than of any one particular team, this thread is actually extraordinarily pathetic.

Manchester City have put together an incredible squad at a lower cost in transfer fees than Chelsea's and on a lower overall wage bill than both ourselves and Chelsea (and no, Manchester City's transfer fees/wages for this season are not part of the charges brought against them by the Premier League).

In any case, those FFP rules that Manchester City are accused of breaking are despicable in their nature. I will never understand why it should be fair that teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid be legally protected to continuously outspend all their rivals simply through having created more revenue historically, leading to a perpetual cycle of anti-competitive protectionism where the fresh investment required for new competition is throttled.

I also notice a distinct lack of appreciation for what Manchester City have given to English football. Since 2009, Manchester City have brought a large volume of star players to the Premier League, contributed some of the league's most defining moments, contributed to England's coefficient in Europe and ultimately been a major reason behind the dramatic increase in television revenues which have benefitted the entire league and wider football pyramid.

I understand that there is also this "sportswashing" angle, but as with the above aspects, I also do not understand it at all - what exactly is the practical point that those who use this argument are trying to make?
Everybody cares about human rights abuses across the world and specifically in this instance, the related issues in the Middle East.
However, if Abu Dhabi hadn't purchased Manchester City, would all the political prisoners being held in the UAE now be free? If England had given the UAE and other Middle Eastern countries the cold shoulder in the past, would their subsequent pivot towards China and Russia have improved the human rights situations there?
Simply holding the position that you don't want such states to be involved in English football, with zero additional thought given to the wider context within which this viewpoint sits, is a completely closed-minded and morally indefensible position to hold. The way these situations improve is through dialogue and communication, through giving Qatar the World Cup then using this to push through the abolition of the kafala system.
It does not improve with stonewalling through the adoption of an us vs them attitude.

You say you don't have an interest in any particular team, yet you're clearly a City fan. But I'll let you off because, judging by years of empty seats during games and empty streets during trophy celebrating bus runs, City fans in general don't have much interest in a particular team either.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

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The bit where Gray says that City been accused of cheating shouldn't detract from the players on the pitch, is basically what Shearer said on MOTD last night, but rather than been challenged on it like Keys did, Lineker just shrugged his shoulders and agreed.

It would have been pre planned Lineker mentioning it, so no idea why they bothered bringing it up if they were literally going to gloss over it the way they did.

 

[horsechoker]

You know it’s a sad state of affairs when Richard fecking Keys is speaking sense.

Don't be surprised if Bein becomes a United mouthpiece if Jassim takes over.