Coronavirus Champions League - SF 1st Leg - Himannv/DVG vs Enigma/Pat

[GodShaveTheQueen]

......................................HIMANNV/DVG.............................................................................ENIGMA/PAT

TEAM HIMANNV/DVG

Tactics

• No major adjustments or anything here, this is quite simply Pep's Barcelona.
• All players playing the same system and pulling together to achieve a common goal.
• We have Pep himself on the bench dammit.

Defence

• Bossis and Amoros are a play on what Abibal and Alvez offered the team. I'd say Bossis is an upgrade, while Amoros is more like-for-like.
• VVD and Bergomi in place of Pique and Puyol is also an upgrade in quality.

Midfield

• Barcelona's original midfield retained here.
• They are the best midfield put together and playing the tactics that made them famous.

Attack

• Spearheaded by Messi in his devastating False 9 version.
• Czibor comes into this side. He can be direct and has played with similar sort of setups for Hungary.
• Robben in the version that played under Pep in Bayern.

TEAM ENIGMA/PAT

Formation: Zona mista.
Style: Direct, counter-attacking.

Player Profiles:
GK: Peter Shilton - Complete keeper, one of England's elite.
LB: Antonio Cabrini - Attacking full back, manning the left flank in a system he is very comfortable and experienced in.
RCB: Paul McGrath - Has experience as a right back and playing in a role that should suit his best qualities.
CB: Laurent Blanc - sweeper. Commanding the defence - world cup and EURO winner.
CB: Karlheinz Forster - stopper.
CM/DM: Jean Tigana - defensive central midfielder. Protects the back four.
CM: Wilem van Hanegem - a mixture of playmaker and B2B. Controls the tempo, actively participates in the defensive phase and adds a lot of power and height in the midfield battle.
AMC: Rivelino - Participates in both phases. Ability to beat his man pull the strings in the attacking third, but also adds great work rate to the midfield.
RW: Bruno Conti - Another winger notable for his stamina and work rate. Plays as a right winger in both phases.
SS: Enzo Francescoli- One of the most inspiring and technically gifted players in the game.
CF: Alberto Spencer - Excellent fit to lead the line - complete and proven goalscorer in his heyday.

Defence: One of the greatest pure stoppers in the game is paired with Blanc who completes him stylistically. Tucked in right back in McGrath who is a fantastic defender and great reader of the game. Cabrini played in the system and is well suited to it.

Midfield: van Hanegem and Tigana combo have it all as a pair - tireless running, stamina and defensive game coupled with playmaking ability, excellent on the ball and power. Rivelino would also put a shift in to allow more control in midfield when we're off the ball, whilst Bruno Conti offers a lot in both phases.

Attack: Francescoli / Spencer is a deadly combination of creativity and finishing ability. Francescoli will play in his favorite SS role, whilst Spencer will stretch and occupy the opposition CB's.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good luck @Himannv @DVG7 @Enigma_87 @Pat_Mustard

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm AMing for Enigma so please don't count my vote in either match @GodShaveTheQueen .

Thoughts on the opposition:

Decent midfield for a Pep Barca tactic I suppose . Front three is class in terms of quality, less so in terms of fit. Robben/Messi has been discussed extensively in previous threads and without meaning to typecast his game too much this system doesn't seem to get the best out of Czibor's traditional wingplay either. Generally, the balance would be improved markedly with wide players who excelled in off the ball movement rather than with the ball at their feet. Villa is the obvious example who would have balanced the attack brilliantly, but it was unfortunate for Himannv that he ended up with a combined squad with so few CF options. The French FB duo are good fits and very strong defensively, but Amoros won't quite match Dani Alves' vital attacking contribution to Pep's Barca


Our Team:

A counter-attacking system like the Zona Mista looks like the smart choice against tiki-taka. Conti and Cabrini in the crucial wide roles have unimpeachable credentials in the system, winning the World Cup with Italy in 1982 and even combining to assist Rossi for Italy's opener vs Brazil (from 1:25)


The central defensive trio are good fits for the system too, with Blanc leading one of the best defences ever for France, Forster being one of the consensus greatest stoppers ever and McGrath producing one of the all-time great backs to the wall defensive displays to thwart Baggio's Italy in 1994.


Spencer/Francescoli look a fine duo to nick something on the counter, with both excelling in counter-attacking teams. God bless whoever had the patience to try making an all-touches video from this dire video quality, as it gives a strong sense of Spencer's playing style:


His willingness to work the channels, his muscular hold-up play and powerful running with the ball at his feet make him an ideal target striker for this system, and Enzo has dragged Uruguay to multiple Copa America titles near single-handedly at times

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'm AMing for Enigma so please don't count my vote in either match @GodShaveTheQueen .

Your name is in the title mate

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Your name is in the title mate

Oh dear...I had a moment of clarity after clicking away from the Caf and just came back to edit that out

 

[Physiocrat]

@Pat_Mustard

Czibor from what I have seen is more of a roaming, floating winger than a traditional line hugger like Gento or Matthews. So I think he will operate well positionally the question is will he do a lot of runs off the ball to give Messi space or will he just dribble with it?

 

[Gio]

@Pat_Mustard

Czibor from what I have seen is more of a roaming, floating winger than a traditional line hugger like Gento or Matthews. So I think he will operate well positionally the question is will he do a lot of runs off the ball to give Messi space or will he just dribble with it?

I like Czibor in this system. He wasn't really a traditional outside-left like most from his era. For Hungary it was Budai who kept the width, while Czibor roamed, cut onto his right and hunted out goals. Can see him working well here and it's a nice nod to a Barcelona theme.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@Pat_Mustard

Czibor from what I have seen is more of a roaming, floating winger than a traditional line hugger like Gento or Matthews. So I think he will operate well positionally the question is will he do a lot of runs off the ball to give Messi space or will he just dribble with it?

I like Czibor in this system. He wasn't really a traditional outside-left like most from his era. For Hungary it was Budai who kept the width, while Czibor roamed, cut onto his right and hunted out goals. Can see him working well here and it's a nice nod to a Barcelona theme.

Good points from both of you. I wouldn't argue that Czibor is out of place in an intricate possession style or anything, just that 1) crossing still seems to have been a prominent feature of his game* and he doesn't have the best range targets here and 2) especially with Robben on the other wing, some specialist off the ball runner (C. Ronaldo would be the gold standard but someone like Heynckes would work well) looks the better fit. It's highly possible I'm underrating Czibor in that regard though or misjudging his playing style as I haven't watched much of him.

* Just in case anyone hasn't read it, I'll post that great anecdote about Czibor's Puskas/Kocsis dilemma

Zoltan Czibor sauntered into the dressing room, wholly satisfied by his first-half exhibition. Hungary led Sweden 3-0 in their Men’s Olympic Football Tournament Helsinki 1952 semi-final. He had put the first-minute opener on a plate for Ferenc Puskas, witnessed the same player cannon a shot against the crossbar from his teasing centre, and then another of his crosses, which was en route to the infallible left boot of ‘The Galloping Major’, diverted into his own goal by Gosta Lindh.

Congratulation was expected. Condemnation arrived. Directing it was a team-mate. “He told me to stop crossing low for Puskas, that if I’d put more crosses in the air we’d have scored even more.” explained Czibor. “Puskas was the greatest player in the world. I don’t think anybody else would have dared take issue.”

The protester nevertheless had a voice that commanded attention. Czibor took heed and began to alternate between low and high crosses. The critic duly vindicated his half-time outburst by scoring twice en route to a 6-0 victory. They contributed to him retiring having netted a preposterous 75 goals in 68 internationals and almost a hundred more headers than Dario, the Brazilian who sits second on the list of football’s all-time aerial kings. Those stupefying statistics pay testament to why Sandor Kocsis could challenge even the immortal Puskas.

Lazslo Budai, another supplier in that irresistible side, later recalled: “Puskas had the best left foot and Kocsis was the best header of a ball I'd ever seen. The bad thing was that when we crossed the ball, we were always going to disappoint one, because one would want it on the floor and the other in the air. The good thing was that if we got the cross right, nine times out of ten it would result in a goal.”

 

[Synco]

I think too much is made of Messi's supposed inability to intelligently cooperate with different kinds of players. (Same goes for Robben.)

I agreed with the Ronaldinho argument when Messi is played centrally, but I think it gets a bit out of hand.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think too much is made of Messi's supposed inability to intelligently cooperate with different kinds of players. (Same goes for Robben.)

I agreed with the Ronaldinho argument when Messi is played centrally, but I think it gets a bit out of hand.

Some systems do require a total precision if you want to reap all the benefits from it, tiki taka is one of them.
As for Messi and ability/inability to cooperate, it happens only with F9 Messi and rightly so. But in general i think we are even to lenient, most often then not we are playing open pools so all players that are picked are great ones and 90% of them are pretty intelligent football wise so by that logic you can pretty much pair anyone with anyone as they are great ability wise and intelligent enough to make it work. At that point we can even drop tactics and just rate the teams with most individually great players.
You dont even look into history to kill that argument, just look at current Barca side....filled with great players yet are absolute shambles on the pitch. If you want to look at history you have Galaticos that by all accounts should have dominated world football, they didnt. Any Inter side ever, always full of big names and always doing feck all.

 

[Synco]

Some systems do require a total precision if you want to reap all the benefits from it, tiki taka is one of them.
As for Messi and ability/inability to cooperate, it happens only with F9 Messi and rightly so. But in general i think we are even to lenient, most often then not we are playing open pools so all players that are picked are great ones and 90% of them are pretty intelligent football wise so by that logic you can pretty much pair anyone with anyone as they are great ability wise and intelligent enough to make it work. At that point we can even drop tactics and just rate the teams with most individually great players.
You dont even look into history to kill that argument, just look at current Barca side....filled with great players yet are absolute shambles on the pitch. If you want to look at history you have Galaticos that by all accounts should have dominated world football, they didnt. Any Inter side ever, always full of big names and always doing feck all.

I wasn't dismissing the argument altogether, as you can see in my post about Ronaldinho/Messi. I think that, in comparison with usual standards, it seems to be applied too rigidly to me, especially thinking of Messi/Robben.

 

[DVG7]

@Himannv sorry I am the worst AM ever been busy playing a WW game

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Synco @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam

We are playing 2 legged ties here. I notice that you have voted on the 2nd Leg in the below thread but not voted on this leg.

Please vote unless of course you consider it to be a draw.

This whole fixture of 2 ties is very close and I don't want someone to lose because a voter checked only one thread or voted only on one thread without giving too much thought about the second game.

There is still around 7 hours left. Hope you can vote or comment if you think its a draw.

 

[Synco]

Please vote unless of course you consider it to be a draw.

That has been the case when I voted only once this round. Or at least I wasn't sure who to vote for.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

That has been the case when I voted only once this round.

Fair enough. I just want to make sure the draws are being called out so no one feel robbed at the end.

 

[Synco]

Fair enough. I just want to make sure the draws are being called out so no one feel robbed at the end.

Yeah, that's fine of course.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

checked both threads no worries, just dont know what to do here so will call it a draw

 

[Šjor Bepo]

feck it, voted himan even though i dislike that Messi Robben combo and not sure what to think of Czibor cause of lack of footage but defence is spot on so will give benefit of the doubt for the attack to somehow click as i cant see the other team coping against the GOAT midfield.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Synco @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam

We are playing 2 legged ties here. I notice that you have voted on the 2nd Leg in the below thread but not voted on this leg.

Please vote unless of course you consider it to be a draw.

This whole fixture of 2 ties is very close and I don't want someone to lose because a voter checked only one thread or voted only on one thread without giving too much thought about the second game.

There is still around 7 hours left. Hope you can vote or comment if you think its a draw.

@Physiocrat , I forgot to tag you as well. Please read this quote.

 

[Jim Beam]

I call it a draaaaaaaw

 

[2mufc0]

I think Messi and Robben would gel nicely, imo Himannv has that extra quality in attack to tilt the game into his favour in this one.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat , I forgot to tag you as well. Please read this quote.

Thanks for tagging me, that was a fair thing to do. I do though call it a draw. I can't really separate them.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Congratulations on the win @Enigma_87 , as I mentioned in the PM when you sent the tactics, putting all your eggs in one basket/tie was a brilliant move.

Great draft @Himannv . So many teams drafted, but I think its safe to say, you win the prize for both the best midfield and the 2nd best midfield in the draft.

Replacing Pirlo with Kaiser remains one of the best moves of this draft IMO.

 

[Enigma_87]

Congratulations on the win @Enigma_87 , as I mentioned in the PM when you sent the tactics, putting all your eggs in one basket/tie was a brilliant move.

Great draft @Himannv . So many teams drafted, but I think its safe to say, you win the prize for both the best midfield and the 2nd best midfield in the draft.

Replacing Pirlo with Kaiser remains one of the best moves of this draft IMO.

Cheers! Yes it was tight all round and commiserations @Himannv - you have build two great sides !

 

[Isotope]

Himannv/DVG might have won this by an absolute landslide if they put Kaiser here, instead of fecking VVD