Indeed.
It's part of Ole Master Plan, we couldn't understand it because the master level planning is out of this world. It's too high level.
Could our Champions League exit end up being a blessing in disguise?
- Thread starter PoTMS
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It's part of Ole Master Plan, we couldn't understand it because the master level planning is out of this world. It's too high level.
Yes, rightly pointed out. Extra rest also won't meant top 4 is a guarantee.How many clubs have been catastrophically knocked out of the CL and redoubled their efforts in the league whilst going on to win it?
The slump in morale; the self-doubt as to whether you're good enough; the gnawing anguish of playing through events that led to being knocked out again and again in your mind... these aren't solid foundations to build from when you've got a team who have no identity and very little achievements or trophies as a collective in their recent past. I should think it leads to capitulation over being a springboard to any resounding success or progress.
The slump in morale; the self-doubt as to whether you're good enough; the gnawing anguish of playing through events that led to being knocked out again and again in your mind... these aren't solid foundations to build from when you've got a team who have no identity and very little achievements or trophies as a collective in their recent past. I should think it leads to capitulation over being a springboard to any resounding success or progress.
Thank goodness there's some optimism on this Forum. I was beginning to wonder if everything was doom and gloom but now I feel my spirits have been lifted by this ray of light and positivity. Hoorah!
In a normal season yes, but people are ignoring the fact that this is the most condensed season we've ever had.
it's going to be survival of the fittest - trying to do well in 4 competitions this year just isn't going to be possible without a hugely talented squad and a lot of luck with injuries.
We ended up stretching ourselves too thin last season and ended up losing 3 semi finals and just about creeping top 4. Let's not make the same mistake again.
Once normality resumes then yes we can go flat out for 4 trophies.
Ole needs a trophy. We will be going all out for all 4 this season. Ironically we are likely to end up worse off fixture wise because we are more likely to progress further in the Europa, and there is an extra knockout round.
My quote was tongue in cheek and you're right, there can be a silver lining. The Europa seems to take its toll on teams in terms of distance that has to be travelled and time to recover. It's a route to the CL if you win, however and we may be glad of that as well as the silver. I'm becoming ambivalent about domestic cups because I want to see us back on top of the PL but however we fare in competitions, I agree with you it's going to be the squad which can handle the stress best that will do well.
Will it be us? Perhaps, but we won't get a better incentive and opportunity than the bizarre season that's unfolding now.
Which is why we should forget the Europa and just concentrate on the domestic side.
Try to win the league, and try to win the FA/League cup. Ole gets a trophy and we keep the top 4.
Mourinho won the Europa league but where did that get us? the squad are no better for it. Regular CL finishes is what we need to keep our reputation high and in the spotlight.
The best young talent don't want to play for a europa league side. Eventually we'll get to the point where we will fight for the title again every year -but it's baby steps right now.
I feel like people are stuck in the mindframe that we're under Fergie and deserve to be winning every title going, the team just isn't at that level yet.
I agree that we are not at that level yet, but I dont think that Ole would want a CL group stage exit followed by an early Europa defeat. Can you really see this fanbase, who go off on a 0-0 draw with City, being understanding of any defeat or looking at the big picture? There is no way he doesn't try to win it.
No way, playing on thursday night then the week-end will hurt us even more.
there's nothing positive at all about going out at the group stage, add in its even more horrific going in to the Europa League, no matter what spin people put on it, that was a disaster for the club. we ain't going to put out the young players in any the cups either, best you could hope for would be some more squad players getting some game time, but really would rather the likes of Jones, Rojo, Lingard etc just left in January once an for all.
Sociedad will knock us out anyway, that will be a blessing in disguise, not really disguise in the EL
How on earth can we topple the likes of man city and liverpool in the league when ole couldn't even get the team to finish ahead of Leipzig and a very out of sorts psg side?
There's always the 4th place trophy.
I know what you mean, but fans can be very shortsighted. We had this conversation at the end of last season and said if we go for the EL final we will suffer with no pre season - and that's exactly what happened. Fans still complained.
I know Ole will never purposely throw the competition, he's a bit too honourable for that.
In my opinion right now cementing ourselves as a top 4 club is more important, players want to be in the CL, people like Pogba and Fernandes won't want to be dipping in and out of it forever, nobody cares about the EL.
Would a trophy be nice? sure. But look at Arsenal - they won the FA cup and are even worse this season, winning a tournament isn't that important all the time.
I can't see how being out of the CL for any reason is a good thing. The CL is what we have been aiming for since Fergie left (a title run has been unrealistic), so why would we want to be out of it?
I also don't see the logic of resting players being helpful. I say this mainly because Ole doesn't seem prone to doing it, certainly not fully anyway. We always usually seem to go half way house with it. More often than not we rest most of the first team, do badly, then sub 3 of our key players on which defeats the object.
The EL just feels bad all round. There's a good incentive for winning it, but do you want to embarrass yourself/waste resources for your domestic games by playing your first team and not getting there? There are plenty of good teams in the draw this year, so it's no easy task. It's much better to be in the CL. At least you know where you stand with that (the money isn't bad, either).
I also don't see the logic of resting players being helpful. I say this mainly because Ole doesn't seem prone to doing it, certainly not fully anyway. We always usually seem to go half way house with it. More often than not we rest most of the first team, do badly, then sub 3 of our key players on which defeats the object.
The EL just feels bad all round. There's a good incentive for winning it, but do you want to embarrass yourself/waste resources for your domestic games by playing your first team and not getting there? There are plenty of good teams in the draw this year, so it's no easy task. It's much better to be in the CL. At least you know where you stand with that (the money isn't bad, either).
Can you imagine Fergie promoting the idea of losing in the CL?
Nope.
Losing is infectious, so once you start thinking that losing is okay, the team will continue to lose. This is why many teams go through streaks of winning/losing.
Once you enter the losing mentality it's tough to break out of it. And similarly once you enter the winning mentality, it's tough to break out of that.
The above also goes for "life" in general. Never accept failure and always try your best to succeed.
In the modern game, the narrative is often set by the media. The Champions League is the most lucrative competition on the planet in terms of revenue and therefore there needs to be this constant hype from the media to make it sound like the single, most important thing due to the amount of money they have piled in.
However, in my opinion, European competition will always come 2nd to league positions. I don't want a Liverpool-style Champions League win where you finish 6th in the league, lose 5 matches during the competition itself and yet somehow are crowned as 'the best team in Europe' in what has become a glorified FA Cup where the majority of teams don't play anybody even remotely decent until they get to the quarter finals.
We had next to no chance of winning the competition this year and even if we did, it would have been hollow unless we had backed that up with AT LEAST a 2nd placed finish in the league. So to my mind, great that we qualified, we got a tough group, probably should have gone through with a bit more nous from the players and management, now we're out...who cares? Get on with performing well in the league. Same for the FA Cup, same for the League Cup...all pretty hollow if we keep finishing 6th
However, in my opinion, European competition will always come 2nd to league positions. I don't want a Liverpool-style Champions League win where you finish 6th in the league, lose 5 matches during the competition itself and yet somehow are crowned as 'the best team in Europe' in what has become a glorified FA Cup where the majority of teams don't play anybody even remotely decent until they get to the quarter finals.
We had next to no chance of winning the competition this year and even if we did, it would have been hollow unless we had backed that up with AT LEAST a 2nd placed finish in the league. So to my mind, great that we qualified, we got a tough group, probably should have gone through with a bit more nous from the players and management, now we're out...who cares? Get on with performing well in the league. Same for the FA Cup, same for the League Cup...all pretty hollow if we keep finishing 6th