Always enjoy your posts. This was no exception.
Countries that ‘stopped’ producing top players...
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
The Italians used to have such fantastic players always before. Even in the 80s players like Bruno Conti, Paulo Rossi, Scirea and Antognioni would walk into any team. Then you had players like Cabrini and Tardelli who would walk into most teams. You then have Gentile whom no one wants to play against.
They don't have players like that anymore.
They don't have players like that anymore.
How come Greece hardly produce great players? I know basketball is probably bigger there but I'm kinda surprised they didnt kick on after their Euro win.
The USA and Canada are an embarrassment although slowly coming around.
I always thought Jamaica should produce a few more class players than they do.
Nigeria should produce more classy players. Huge population and they love footy.
If Great Britain played as a United country I think they might have an extra trophy or two. Saying that the gap between Rooney and Kane was pretty barren.
The USA and Canada are an embarrassment although slowly coming around.
I always thought Jamaica should produce a few more class players than they do.
Nigeria should produce more classy players. Huge population and they love footy.
If Great Britain played as a United country I think they might have an extra trophy or two. Saying that the gap between Rooney and Kane was pretty barren.
Ronaldinho is a one off in any generation to be honest.
I agree with posters saying Brazil don't produce the same players nowadays. It may be a cycle but Neymar has only been the truely stereotypical attacking Brazilian footballer. They seem to have lost a lot of flair within their youngsters with more coaching being applied over there which makes players more structured and rigid which may be seen as a good thing for clubs who are taking the punt. There is less freedom to play off the cuff in football now anyway, teams are drilled tactically and the depth of video analysis makes it easier to tactically structure a team compared to days gone by.
Compared to what they use to have its very very poor.
Chiesa. 22. Doing ok at Fiorentina. 17 apps one goal for Italy.
Zaniolo and Tonali could be the next top top players, but this is Italy...
They used to have Del Piero, Totti, Maldini, Bonucci, Chielini , Buffon, Pirlo, Vieri etc.
Now they have Verrati. He's more Gattuso than Pirlo.
We were never a world power but feck me we used to produce some great players
the national team has been garbage for a good 15 years now. A few good results in qualifying now and again but no consistency and no players even close to a top clubIn terms of Canada, I know that the long-term ambition is to become the 3rd best team in CONCACAF behind Mexico and the USA, although they are still well behind the likes of Costa Rica, Honduras and Panama at the moment, and it has usually been Honduras and Panama who have stopped them for qualifying for the Hex during the past few World Cup cycles. The team do seem to fall to pieces when they face hostile environments in away games in Central America.
I now know there is the CONCACAF Nations League, but I wonder previously if Canada's automatic qualification for every Gold Cup was more of a hindrance than a help for their development. Having to qualify like the Central American and Caribbean teams did through their regional tournaments now replaced by the Nations League, and playing more competitive, meaningful matches against teams at a similar or higher level to them, surely would have helped.
The USA failing to qualify for the 2018 World Cup from CONCACAF has got to be one of the biggest sporting embarrassments in their history. It was far worse than Italy or the Netherlands failing to qualify from UEFA or Chile failing to do so from CONMEBOL (or even Argentina if they had failed to qualify which was far from certain at one stage), given the relative strengths of the confederations, and their huge resources compared to every other country in their confederation minus Mexico. Mexico and the USA should basically have a free ticket for every World Cup. Mexico nearly threw away their ticket for Brazil in 2014 but were ironically saved by the USA scoring a late equaliser in Panama (their even later winning goal wasn't significant in terms of the qualification race). The USA topped that by actually throwing away their ticket for Russia in 2018, after failing to get a draw away to a Trinidad & Tobago team that was rock bottom of the Hex with nothing more than pride to play for, that had a record of 1 draw and 8 defeats in their previous 9 matches and that had an injury crisis and shortage of fit players.
Australia
We had our golden generation that had the likes of Kewell, Viduka, Cahill and Bresciano, not to mention the goalkeepers (highlighted by Bosnich and Schwarzer of course) where at one stage we had five #1's in the premier league which was the same amount England had that season. Our entire team played in the PL and Serie A, and in 2006 we were a very arguable referee decision from knocking out the eventual champions Italy and moving into the WC quarter-finals where we would have been favourites to get to the semi's.
These days Aaron Mooy is our most notable player.
We had our golden generation that had the likes of Kewell, Viduka, Cahill and Bresciano, not to mention the goalkeepers (highlighted by Bosnich and Schwarzer of course) where at one stage we had five #1's in the premier league which was the same amount England had that season. Our entire team played in the PL and Serie A, and in 2006 we were a very arguable referee decision from knocking out the eventual champions Italy and moving into the WC quarter-finals where we would have been favourites to get to the semi's.
These days Aaron Mooy is our most notable player.
The decline in football/sport being the number 1 street pastime has a lot to answer for as this is where so many technical marvels of the past honed their craft and became technical marvels who also had guile and resilience.
Even from when I was younger to now there is a massive difference in this area amongst kids - in the past, people travelled to neighbouring areas or well known melting pots for pick-up games against complete strangers, where pride was at stake but also a complete unknown element in what you were about to face and no real refereeing as the players self-marshelled.
Humiliating someone in games like those came with its own element of risk as you had no idea what kind of temperament the person had or whether he'd pay you back in kind or just try to take you out next time. That's obviously going to instill wit, improve reaction times and sharpen instincts - something you used to see in abundance with street footballers in professional games.
The additional aspects of any game played on surfaces far removed from pristine pitches come with interpretation of bounce and quickness of adjustment to predictably 'unpredictable' events - this helps defenders just as much as attackers.
I should imagine in countries with beaches, beach futsal (beasal), foot volleyball etc. Would be prevalent and its own place for convening for random games against a throng of unknown opponents. I've never played beach footy, but I have messed about with a ball on the beach, and it is so much more challenging than on grass. Your legs also feel lactic acid build up much sooner. Playing full games on such an exhausting surface against opposition you don't know comes with the additional element of commitment and sharpness. Countries like Brazil prided themselves on the malandro spirit - something assuredly being washed out as kids go into academies younger and play systems and structures rather than find their own way and perfect it. To put this into eurocentric terms, the stories of Best perfecting techniques by himself against walls and outside of United's tutelage are legion, same with Charlton.
This topic has many branches and reasons, but I think the decimation we've seen has obvious root causes, irrespective of nation.
Writing from a queue freezing outside a supermarket, so hope that this post is coherent.
Even from when I was younger to now there is a massive difference in this area amongst kids - in the past, people travelled to neighbouring areas or well known melting pots for pick-up games against complete strangers, where pride was at stake but also a complete unknown element in what you were about to face and no real refereeing as the players self-marshelled.
Humiliating someone in games like those came with its own element of risk as you had no idea what kind of temperament the person had or whether he'd pay you back in kind or just try to take you out next time. That's obviously going to instill wit, improve reaction times and sharpen instincts - something you used to see in abundance with street footballers in professional games.
The additional aspects of any game played on surfaces far removed from pristine pitches come with interpretation of bounce and quickness of adjustment to predictably 'unpredictable' events - this helps defenders just as much as attackers.
I should imagine in countries with beaches, beach futsal (beasal), foot volleyball etc. Would be prevalent and its own place for convening for random games against a throng of unknown opponents. I've never played beach footy, but I have messed about with a ball on the beach, and it is so much more challenging than on grass. Your legs also feel lactic acid build up much sooner. Playing full games on such an exhausting surface against opposition you don't know comes with the additional element of commitment and sharpness. Countries like Brazil prided themselves on the malandro spirit - something assuredly being washed out as kids go into academies younger and play systems and structures rather than find their own way and perfect it. To put this into eurocentric terms, the stories of Best perfecting techniques by himself against walls and outside of United's tutelage are legion, same with Charlton.
This topic has many branches and reasons, but I think the decimation we've seen has obvious root causes, irrespective of nation.
Writing from a queue freezing outside a supermarket, so hope that this post is coherent.
and what happened to you? the league is weaker than before ?.We were never a world power but feck me we used to produce some great players
Obviously you can't get a Stoichkov every year, but at least upper-middle-level players for the big leagues and seeing the last call of your national team I really don't know anyone
Yugoslavia is a bad argument since Croatia has had reasonable success in the WC during the last 25 years. Add players like Dzeko, Vidic and Oblak and you have a very strong Yugoslavia team. The Czech Republic would be my argument since they looked like Brazil in 2004 and they are nowhere near that now.
Is there something around the countries that tend to have a lot of immigration coming to the fore in talent? i.e. From countries that have a lot of natural talent (e.g. African countries) but not the framework to develop it to countries that do, like England, France, Belgium, Germany, Portugal and Holland?
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Spanish strikers?
Yugoslavia and Croatia were both in France 98’ if I’m not mistaken, there is a difference. I thought Yugoslavia is now more Serbia - who haven’t produced the same level of talent as the Jugovic, Stankovic, Savicevic, Stoijkovic and Mijatovic lot.
Yugoslavia is now Serbia + Croatia + Bosnia + North Macedonia + Kosovo + Montenegro + Slovenia
So no cycle, a team composed of players from all these countries would still be scary good.
Regarding your post above, Mijatovic and Savicrvic are Montenegrin, so a Serbia only side in 98 would not look that impressive.
If Scotland left UK and UK had a national team and Scotland were able to qualify the next WC would have both UK and Scotland. Which would not mean Scotland were not a part of UK.
Czechrepublic comes to my mind. What a fall from grace for them.
Outside shout well I will say Argentina are no longer producing a bulk of world class players. Yes you have messi and the likes of aguero di maria and Dybala but then not much apart from that.
Outside shout well I will say Argentina are no longer producing a bulk of world class players. Yes you have messi and the likes of aguero di maria and Dybala but then not much apart from that.
But it would. Because they have left.
But with regards to your previous post that is certainly very helpful, thank you.
Well, not really
I meant, that Scotland were never part of UK.
Yugoslavia post 1991 was Yugoslavia only in name as only Serbia and Montenegro were left. It had more than 20 mill people pre 1991 and around 8 mill post that. Kosovo was still officially a part, but they were boycotting everything so not really.
So, yeah, from 22 mill to 8 post 91.
Also, if you’re talking about USSR/Ukraine, you can’t underestimate Lobanovsky’s influence, who has brought up 3 very successful generations from the 70’s to the 90’s (if we’re going by big names, from Blokhin to Shevchenko).
Cameroon and Czech Republic for me. I have always loved watching Cameroon and Senegal at World Cups. Where Senegal still has players like Mane and Koulibaly, Cameroon hasn't produced anyone I've been excited about for ages.
The league is fecking corrupt, every club has money problems other than Ludogorets who don't really develop players and just buy Brazilians and Portuguese and nationalize them. It's really sad, football in the country has just fallen apart and no one seems to really care anymore. We're obviously not a rich country but there are plenty of small similar countries producing great talent. Got to hope we just get lucky with some naturally talented player breaking through.and what happened to you? the league is weaker than before ?.
Obviously you can't get a Stoichkov every year, but at least upper-middle-level players for the big leagues and seeing the last call of your national team I really don't know anyone
Our best player Popov has been in the Russian league for a while now. There's a quite talented kid called Kraev on loan in Portugal from Midtjylland but who knows if his career will go anywhere.
What I'd do for a Stilyan Petrov right now
Czechia's best player Soucek is in West Ham, Smicer and Poborsky were in Liverpool and United. So that's the drop.
The issue with Canada is hockey. Everyone or most play hockey. At least on the east coast. This is due to the weather. More than half the year they will play hockey. Football or soccer is a summer past time. Plus unless you get the school football going like they do for hockey, it's not going to go anywhere. Too many coaches at that level are interested in physical fitness or condition as I have heard them call it. They can run for 90 mins but can't properly kick a ball. Plus they are no heroes or idols in soccer. No one knows a Canadian football player but everyone knows Sidney Crosby.
Its like a global phenomenon
Till the late 90s kids used to play outside kick ball in the dirt and develop their skills Kids now play more indoors and video games than they used to, to play football these days you have to almost be middle class and your parents afford to put you in an academy
For countries without those type of academies, they will get a drop in talent
Till the late 90s kids used to play outside kick ball in the dirt and develop their skills Kids now play more indoors and video games than they used to, to play football these days you have to almost be middle class and your parents afford to put you in an academy
For countries without those type of academies, they will get a drop in talent
Have had a quick glance in the previous pages and I'm quite surprised that no one mentions Spain. La Masia had manufactured so many great players over the years that many clubs and countries copied their blueprints, but they have failed to produce top players in recent years. This also leads to the fall of Barcelona and the national team.
They never produced star of football, but i have feeling Australia had much more known players in europe (2006-2010). Dont have much clue about A league, but i guess they are more among gulf leagues intead of europe as slots for asian players.
Cahill Viduka Kewell and many others playing champions league
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Also if i look to carribean region I see Trinidade and Tobago. Around 2006, they had few players in PL, some of them decent players. Many of them even born, not naturalize like today. Current look to squad, none of player play any relevant league.
Yorke, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Latapy, Andrews
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Honorable mentions
- Spain
- Chile
Cahill Viduka Kewell and many others playing champions league
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Also if i look to carribean region I see Trinidade and Tobago. Around 2006, they had few players in PL, some of them decent players. Many of them even born, not naturalize like today. Current look to squad, none of player play any relevant league.
Yorke, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Latapy, Andrews
---
Honorable mentions
- Spain
- Chile
Ireland have had a huge drop off recently. We always have produced a fair few good to great players even though our national sports, and recently rugby have always been a bigger draw to sports people.
Without trying to overdo our success is must be remembered that our island is literally split in two and unlike some other countries of similar population we have two national sports (as in barely played anywhere else in the World) to contend with. It is actually pretty impressive when we manage to make championships (although us fans forget it sometimes). In my lifetime we've had two very good sides being 1990-1994 and 2000-2002. Also you must remember that because of how close we are to England that any of our very good youngsters get signed by English clubs so they never play much in Ireland and our home League is underfunded to hell. Most of the guys playing in Ireland are amateur. Although probably our best recent player (Hoolohan) played in Ireland until he was 23. He went on to be one of Norwich's best players.
It can't be overstated how much an impact GAA has on soccer in Ireland. I was pretty handy at both but when I made my county GAA team at 14, I was told to quit playing soccer for my local club. The same happened to mates of mine and some of them were seriously good soccer players. We chose GAA because that's what we were brought up with. Also anyone following Irish football will have knowledge of our FAI scandal which has further killed the game here.
Thankfully our u21s are excellent and finally most of them are only eligible to play for Ireland (no bad feelings for Grealish or Rice but would like to avoid that again) so the future is bright and our current u21 manager (Stephen Kenny, good guy) is being promoted to our first team manager so hopefully a lot of them will go on to have successful careers. I seen them two months ago tear apart an Italy side with the much vaunted Tonali, Cutrone and others in it. So fingers crossed.
To be honest all this just goes to show what an incredible job our rugby clubs, provinces and IRFU have done in making Ireland a serious rugby nation in this time. That's the type of model we need for football. When I see my province (Leinster) on course to somehow being the most successful European team of all time then it tells me that Irish football can do more to develop young players to make it big again.
Without trying to overdo our success is must be remembered that our island is literally split in two and unlike some other countries of similar population we have two national sports (as in barely played anywhere else in the World) to contend with. It is actually pretty impressive when we manage to make championships (although us fans forget it sometimes). In my lifetime we've had two very good sides being 1990-1994 and 2000-2002. Also you must remember that because of how close we are to England that any of our very good youngsters get signed by English clubs so they never play much in Ireland and our home League is underfunded to hell. Most of the guys playing in Ireland are amateur. Although probably our best recent player (Hoolohan) played in Ireland until he was 23. He went on to be one of Norwich's best players.
It can't be overstated how much an impact GAA has on soccer in Ireland. I was pretty handy at both but when I made my county GAA team at 14, I was told to quit playing soccer for my local club. The same happened to mates of mine and some of them were seriously good soccer players. We chose GAA because that's what we were brought up with. Also anyone following Irish football will have knowledge of our FAI scandal which has further killed the game here.
Thankfully our u21s are excellent and finally most of them are only eligible to play for Ireland (no bad feelings for Grealish or Rice but would like to avoid that again) so the future is bright and our current u21 manager (Stephen Kenny, good guy) is being promoted to our first team manager so hopefully a lot of them will go on to have successful careers. I seen them two months ago tear apart an Italy side with the much vaunted Tonali, Cutrone and others in it. So fingers crossed.
To be honest all this just goes to show what an incredible job our rugby clubs, provinces and IRFU have done in making Ireland a serious rugby nation in this time. That's the type of model we need for football. When I see my province (Leinster) on course to somehow being the most successful European team of all time then it tells me that Irish football can do more to develop young players to make it big again.
Actually (maybe suitable for another thread) my question would be why are China not incredible? Indeed why the hell have China never produced one World Class player in the history of the game. The USA guys like to talk about if they took it seriously they'd be the best footballing nation (bullshit see my Irish post about national sports in a nation of 4 million) but why the hell hasn't a nation of that population ever even produced one top top player?
This thread makes you realise how much of football is team focussed. I think a lot of the African countries are a good example of this - Nigeria in the mid-late 90s, Senegal in the early 00s and Ivory Coast in the late 00s/early 10s. A lot of the countries mentioned so far had waves of talent across a few players rather than singular players dotted throughout. Makes you think what we've missed out on over the years.
South Africa also had a really strong crops in the 90s....Lucas Radebe, Benni McCarthy, Mark Fish, Phil Masinga and Quinton Fortune all had good careers in europe.
Seems in last 15 years the only top class player they've produce is Steven Pienaar, their squad is really poor nowadays.
Definitely Scotland
I think they made three world cups in a row in the 70 early 80 period and had a good portion of the best players that were playing in England at that time.
I would not be able to name one Scottish player playing for Celtic or Rangers at the moment.
I think they made three world cups in a row in the 70 early 80 period and had a good portion of the best players that were playing in England at that time.
I would not be able to name one Scottish player playing for Celtic or Rangers at the moment.
What about Chinese, Indian, Indonesian? If it is simply a law of statistics, they should have plenty.
Good schooling system ensure countries like Korea and Japan able to produce good footballers. Not necessarily world class but at least good ones. This is a start.
Good domestic league is no longer a requirement as good players can always work aboard. Paraguay, Hungary are the 2 that disappear at WC stage. Meanwhile you find more of Central and South American, African players in top clubs.
I don’t think I implied it was. It seems to be quite a layered issue tbh, often sociopolitical, but I just wonder why the infrastructure used to be in place to produce good Scottish or Romanian players, but then none. Meanwhile, some countries, big and small, have ALWAYS produced good players. I doubt there’s a simple answer as to why, and it probably varies case by case. There have been some particularly good answers in relation to the economic situation in Scotland for example. Russia/USSR is a different case study altogether. The Dutch are only just returning to something like what we are used to, but then you ask the question of why have they managed to consistently produce such good players historically anyway, in relation to their resources. Different cultures, different influences, role models, economics etc - so much to consider really.
This. They have had an embarrassment of riches over the decades. Their current crop are very underwhelming. At one point they had Del Peiro, Vieri, Totti, Di Natale, Luca Toni and Inzaghi to choose from and that was only their forwards!
I'm quite surprised no one has mentioned Turkey. Football-mad, home to several big clubs, relatively good football infrastructure, yet early noughties Indian summer aside they never seem to produce players destined to be at the very top.
As a Hongkonger I may be able to answer your question. In Chinese societies, money is the top priority of many people, and there is a general belief that academic excellence is the only way to become rich. As a result, parents arrange all sorts of tutorials and make their children study 24/7. Under these circumstances, many children miss the best opportunity to develop basic skills in football.
Even if some take the path of sports, they tend to choose small ball games (e.g. table tennis, badminton) over big ones (e.g. football, basketball). This could be due to multiple factors, maybe because China has a better past record, maybe because the development system is more mature, maybe because of genetics.
Meanwhile, there are also plenty of problems regarding Chinese football. Top local players are paid so high that they become unwilling to challenge themselves in foreign leagues (Wu Lei has been the only one in recent years). Match fixing is still a serious issue. Like other East Asia countries, they struggle very hard when they face the physicality of West Asian players, that's why they recruit Elkeson to their national team.