Cricket World Cup/ICC Champions Trophy Draft - R1 Harshad vs Boycott

Discussion in 'Other Sport' started by 2mufc0, Apr 16, 2018.

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Based on performances in ICC tournaments which team would win?

Poll closed Apr 17, 2018.
  1. Team Harshad

    58.8%
  2. Team Boycott

    41.2%
  1. Apr 16, 2018
    #1

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    This draft is based on player performances in ICC World Cups and Champions Trophy only, only performances in these tournaments count, performances outside these tournaments carry no weight. Please vote according to this criteria.


    TEAM HARSHAD

    1. M. Greatbatch
    2. B.C. Lara
    3. M. Amarnath
    4. D. Jones
    5. A.Ranatunga
    6. Inzi
    7. S. Pollock
    8. L. Klusener
    9. I. Smith (WK)
    10. S.Warne
    11. M. Shami

    VS

    TEAM BOYCOTT

    1. Ganguly
    2. Anwar
    3. Gower
    4. Martyn
    5. Elliot
    6. Houghton (wk)
    7. Bravo
    8. Afridi
    9. Lee
    10. Prabakhar
    11. Allot


    Harshad writeup


    Team Harshad

    1. M. Greatbatch - The protagonist of pinch-hitting openers. Don't believe me? Read this.
    2. B.C. Lara - One of the GOATs
    3. M. Amarnath - Can bat. Can bowl. Not the most flamboyant of cricketers but underestimate Jimmy at your own peril. MOM in the 83 Final
    4. D. Jones - Laid the foundations of Australia's 1987 World Cup campaign
    5. A.Ranatunga - Captain Marvel
    6. Inzi - The party pooper as far as NZ are concerned. MOM in the 1992 semi-final
    7. S. Pollock - Old war horse.
    8. L. Klusener - Remember '99 World Cup. But for a brain fade, it would have been known as the Klusener Cup
    9. I. Smith (WK) - Has a strike rate of over 100.
    10. S.Warne - GOAT. Of th 2 SF and 2 Finals he played he was the MOM in 3 of them
    11. M. Shami - Consistent throughout the '15 World Cup

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Why I would win - My team is full of players who have a history of performing in clutch situations and winning matches.

    Boycott writeup


    [​IMG]

    • At the top of the order I have two quick-scoring openers who will take on the bowlers and make the most of the new ball and powerplay. Anwar has played four matches in Champions Trophy, averaging 144.50 with two centuries and a half-century. Ganguly has played thirteen matches in Champions Trophy, averaging 73.88, a total run tally of 665 runs and three centuries and three fifties.
    • Gower top scored in the 1983 World Cup. His languid, elegant style will keep the run rate healthy while providing the anchor for the innings.
    • Martyn is the right-handed Gower in many ways. He was an unsung member of the conquering Aussie side and in the 2003 World Cup Final he scored 88* from 84 deliveries as he was in a 234 run partnership with Ponting which really buried India in that game. In the CT, Martyn played 12 matches, scoring 492 runs, averaging 61.50 and five fifties to his name.
    • Elliott was a crucial player in New Zealand's run to the final in 2015. Scoring at a rate of 105, Elliot's power changed the momentum of games. It was Elliot's crusade against South Africa (84* from 73 balls) that turned it in the Kiwi's favour. In the final, while the others cracked in the biggest game of their life, Elliott scored a valuable 83 which gave them something to bowl at. 83 from a team total of 183.
    • David Houghton will provide a steady hand with the lower order.
    • Bravo is a handy option with the bat with the capability to strike ferociously. Moreover his bowling ability will give crucial options. His experience around the world in twenty-twenty has made him one of the most sought-after players. Line, length, cutters, slower balls. In CT, he has played 15 matches, scoring 220 runs, averaging 31, taking 15 wickets and averaging 32.
    • Afridi was the leading wicket taker in the 2011 World Cup with 21 wickets. He is a very smart spin bowler with a knack of picking up important wickets. In addition his ultra-aggressive batting on its day is match-winning. In 15 CT games he has picked up 14 wickets.
    • Brett Lee is one of the fastest bowlers ever and devastatingly good on his day. 22 wickets in 16 CT matches.
    • Manoj Prabhakar was a regular in the Indian side in the early 1990s. Prabhakar mixed cunning slower balls with in- and outswing, and on his day he could be a formidable opponent with the new ball.
    • Geoff Allott was one of the stars of the 1999 World Cup picking up 20 wickets (the first bowler to do so in tournament history until Warne matched it in the final). Ability to swing the ball and bowl for lengthy spells.
  2. Apr 16, 2018
    #2

    2mufc0 Full Member

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  3. Apr 16, 2018
    #3

    NM Full Member

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    Another WC centric write-up FFS. Regardless leaning towards Boycott as I don't think Harshad has a decent fifth bowler. Don't rate Ranatunga or Amarnath myself
  4. Apr 16, 2018
    #4

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Weird. As Jimmy used to bowl his entire quota of 12 overs more often than not and has a man of the match performance in a final. While Prabhakar got his career ended in a world cup match!
  5. Apr 16, 2018
    #5

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    Why is Lara opening? Poor squad building, I let go of so many players since they didn’t fit in. Klusener before Pollock too.
  6. Apr 16, 2018
    #6

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Lara opened in 92 world cup and has 4 50s to while opening so its not an unusual position for him. Also klusener generally came after Pollock in the 99 world cup
  7. Apr 16, 2018
    #7

    Boycott Full Member

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    The stats of the players who have played in the Champions Trophy are in the write-up.
  8. Apr 16, 2018
    #8

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Not the biggest fan of Inzi.. His performances in World Cup/ICC tournaments aren't the best.
    Lara i can see reason for him opening and even though i feel he is better at 1 down he is more than capable of performing as an opener.
  9. Apr 16, 2018
    #9

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    Fair enough. That Lara opening bit from 92 actually does alter my vote here but long term Lara has to play at 3 IMO
  10. Apr 16, 2018
    #10

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

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    This is the toughest vote so far. I can't believe I'm about to vote against Lance Klusener and Warney but I love Boycott's top four too much. I like Elliot coming in at five too.

    I may come back to change this as I like harshad's bowling options and his batting line-up is about a mile long.
  11. Apr 17, 2018
    #11

    Mani Full Member

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    Inzy’s knock of on 92 WC SF and Final was crucial for Pakistan to win the WC and he’s playing at the right position where he needs to play as for this draft his concern.
  12. Apr 17, 2018
    #12

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Yeah.. I meant that besides that knock he hasn’t done much, has he? Not discounting that innings mind but i meant it in terms of consistency
  13. Apr 17, 2018
    #13

    Mani Full Member

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    He’s was poor apart from that WC and we also need to note that he came in much earlier mostly at 3 or 4 in other WC’s and that’s one of the reason I said he’s playing at the right position here,coming in at when 5 down and with few overs left he can get you those quick runs.We are not looking for Inzy to build the innings here but the explosive one the innings that sent Pakistan to WC final.
  14. Apr 17, 2018
    #14

    Stretch Full Member

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    Happy I made it to vote for this one. Harshad's team has too many batting problem areas for my liking. Most of those batsmen bat too slow and Lara's not an opener. I think Boycott has a very strong batting line up that can score quickly and a good enough attack to limit Harshad's team.
  15. Apr 17, 2018
    #15

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    ICC Tournaments only mate
  16. Apr 17, 2018
    #16

    Akshay Moderator Staff

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    Very very close, could go either way. Harshad's bowling shades it for me but these are both terrific batting line ups.
  17. Apr 17, 2018
    #17

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Just couple of Lara's innings opening in a WC match. Also as I mentioned earlier, Lara opened for WI with Haynes throughout the 92 WC. Also how can one say I most of my batsman are slow when I am opening with Greatbatch who was the pioneer of pinch hitting openers.
  18. Apr 17, 2018
    #18

    Boycott Full Member

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    Greatbach might be a strong pinch-hitter but he doesn't score big, whereas I have two aggressive openers with 12 centuries between them in ICC WC/CT.

    My batting foundation is stronger. In ability to score big and at a good rate. Harshard only has one centurion per the table, and a few of his players played in the longer ODI format.

    Brett Lee opening up has the capability to blitz a team. If I get Greatbach early, you've got Armanath who has a low average and SR. Doesn't that put pressure on the other end to keep the run rate up?

    If you want to argue about SRs in that era, my number three has a SR of 82.35. He played in the same era and top scored in the 1983 World cup.

    David Houghton is the slowest of my recognised batsmen and he striked at 71.
  19. Apr 17, 2018
    #19

    Norris Full Member

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    Afridi at 8 ?
    Klusener after Pollock ?

    Harshad's team (especially batting) looks better on paper, but his 5th bowler is Amarnath, who as far as I can recall isn't much of a bowler. It's very surprising that his ICC numbers are way better than his career one's. I like Boycott's bowling as well to be fair. Good variation and lethal when on form. I like this matchup, should be interesting to see how discussions progress.
  20. Apr 17, 2018
    #20

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Don't know who to vote on this one, will follow the discussions as i'm open to persuasion.
  21. Apr 17, 2018
    #21

    Stretch Full Member

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    I know and Boycott's batsmen are stronger in ICC events collectively than yours from what I recall.
  22. Apr 17, 2018
    #22

    Stretch Full Member

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    That's my biggest worry for Harshad's team. Once Lara and Greatbatch goes you sit with a middle order who doesn't really score fast. Ranatunga only comes in at 5 and by that time the RR might have suffered too much already. Even Inzi after Rana is not a batsman known for scoring quick runs.
  23. Apr 17, 2018
    #23

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Inzi in 92 Final scored at a brisk pace to set a competitive total. Starts around 5:20 mark



    Also, Inzi in the 92 Semis won Pakistan the match with his batting. Starts around 4:40 mark

  24. Apr 17, 2018
    #24

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Don't need him to score a big 100, just need him to give a start from where the middle order will consolidate the runs.

    Why is the nos of players who have scored a century relevant? Some one like Dean Jones may not have scored a 100 but has a 50+ score every 3rd inning in 2 different tournaments. How is his record any less relevant.

    Again, if Lee or Allot even takes out Greatbatch I have a middle order of Amarnath, Jones, Ranatunga & Inzi before the likes of Pollock and Klusener come into question.

    Also, I take it Allot is your opening bowler along with Lee and Prabhakar would be bowling first change?
  25. Apr 17, 2018
    #25

    Mani Full Member

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    I’d gone with Harshad because some of the game changers in his team,Inzy in 92 WC sf and final,Warne’s performance in 96 SF and 99 WC against SA.Greatbatch’s solid foundation from top for NZ in 92 WC performance,finally Klusener the monster who had fantastic 99 WC.ODI is all about some key moments that change the course of the match.
    Boycott sorry mate you got solid team with good batting and decent bowling options but Harshad’s key players shades it for me.
  26. Apr 17, 2018
    #26

    Stretch Full Member

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    Thanks mate. You've made me reconsider but I'm still not entirely swayed. Well played though.
  27. Apr 17, 2018
    #27

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Fair enough. Can't really ask for more. But we still need to look at the bowling though. Prabhakar would be a liability in a world cup specific draft. We are talking about a player whose career ended in 4 overs of carnage dealt by Sanath and Kalu.

    This is Prabhakar against Lara in the '92 world cup. Starts around 6:35 mark



    Also, Prabhakar against Greatbatch in the '92 world cup

  28. Apr 17, 2018
    #28

    Boycott Full Member

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    Prabakhar got 3/46 in that game against NZ and 1/55 against Windies.

    24 wickets in 19 matches.
    Average of 26.
    Economy of 4.41

    If we're taking head to head matches, Ganguly scored a gutsy 97 in the 99 WC against Klusener and Pollock.



    Here he scored a more brisk 141 against them at a SR of 99 in the 2000 Champions Trophy.



    Lets look at the bowling:
    Shahid Afridi - leading wicket taker at 2011 World Cup. His stats in that tournament:

    [​IMG]

    Geoff Allott - joint leading wicket taker in 1999 with Shane Warne. Some of the names he dismissed: Mark Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Sourav Ganguly, Andy Flower and Herschelle Gibbs. His economy in that tournament was 3.71. He was a seam/swing bowler.

    Brett Lee - 35 wickets in 17 World Cup matches. 22 in 16 Champions Trophy games. WC ER: 4.52, CT ER: 4.79.

    Dwayne Bravo - 13 wickets in 10 World Cup matches. 5 wickets in 4 CT matches. ER: 5.57.

    Sourav Ganguly - 10 wickets in 21 World Cup matches. ER: 4.92

    The first four will bowl their full quota and I will split the last 10 between Ganguly and Bravo who are no mugs. Between the 23 wickets in World Cup combined, scalps include: Adam Gilchrist, Kumar Sangakkara, Nasser Hussain, Mahela Jayawardene, Matthew Hayden, Michael Clarke, Paul Collingwood and Mark Boucher. 8 of the 9 are in this draft and Hussain who isn't was the England captain.

    I have highlighted the ER of my bowlers because that is crucial to setting up the win. The elephant in the room is Amarnath and his batting average of 21, batting strike rate of 46 and just one fifty in 14 matches. What does he offer at number 3 in this draft? My bowlers are already hard to get away and here you have a batsman who is ultra defensive. As I said, he played in an era of 60 over games, but so did my number 3. This puts a lot of pressure on the other end to keep the rate healthy and can throw away wickets. If one goes early, I back my bowlers to dismiss Amarnath quick but I won't be sad if he sticks around for a while because he will eat up a lot of deliveries for not many runs. Others will have to play catch up. Dean Jones was a fine player who I put on a par with Martyn. Ranatunga is insurance to Amarnath I guess. Inzamam played more matches than anyone (40) yet only made 4 50s, one every 10 innings. You talk about him firing Pakistan to the final in 92, but so did my number 5 Grant Elliot who pummeled SA and scored 83 in the final vs Aus, but he's not someone I'm hedging the bulk of my innings on. And then Klusener at 7 is good for me because he'll be batting with the tail most likely.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  29. Apr 17, 2018
    #29

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    On the importance of Jimmy (starts around 3:50 mark):

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/802871.html

    Also this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/wctimeline/content/story/499458.html

    The point about Prabhakar was, and I did ask whether he was first your change bowler, that he was primarily a swing bowler and if there is no swing he would get taken for runs.

    Also, I made no comment playing down Grant Elliot's semi-final innings in any manner. The point regarding Inzi was to counter Stretch's point about him not being able to score runs enough.

    Re: Jones and Martyn - Jones was better over all and has better world cup performances. We can look into their individual performances if you want.
  30. Apr 17, 2018
    #30

    Boycott Full Member

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  31. Apr 18, 2018
    #31

    harshad Play the odds, not the man - Poor man's Harvey Scout

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    Cheers @Boycott

    'twas a good match :)