Yeh and I am sure PL players like Martial and McBrune are better players than the likes of Benzema, Neymar, Messi, Mahrez, Mitrovic from Saudi or MLS, for the exact same reason of yours.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Nah, just want to hear the proper response to this, rather than the usual brainless crap like “he is shit because he didn’t play in top league”, you know.
Regarding Romario and Zico, I do agree they are both great player who are still playing well into their mid late 30s in lesser league. My only argument against them as being better 38 year old than Ronaldo, is that they no longer able to play or score goals for their country at that age. And they also didn’t manage to outscore or outperform a good number of the world’s top players playing in the same league or competitions, as compared to what Ronaldo did right now.
See you don’t even have the guts to tell the whole picture here. Truth is, he has also been outperforming the every top class players currently playing in Saudi, but sure you are not going look into any detail of that, and instead you just assume every single one of them are all just unprofessional pricks who don’t give a damn about their performance there at all despite taking huge pay cheque there. That shows the flaws and weakness of your arguments.
23/24
Ronaldo - 17 goals in 17 games
Benzema - 6 goals in 11 games
(last year Ballon D’or winner, 31 goals in 43 games last season for Real Madrid)
Mane - 7 goals in 16 games
(last year Ballon D’or runners up, 12 goals in 38 games last season for Bayern)
Neymar - 1 goals in 5 games
(still Brazil best player currently, 18 goals in 29 games last season for PSG)
Mahrez - 3 goals in 9 games
(key member of treble winner in Europe last season, 15 goals in 47 games for City)
Mitrovic - 7 goals in 10 games
(one of PL top goalscorer early last season with 14 goals in 24 PL games)
Firmino - 3 goals in 9 games
(scored 13 goals in 35 games for Liverpool last season)
Last edited:
I dont think the intensity of the game has changed all that much since they retired. Its only been a decade.
I mean he finished in the top 3 for the 2 seasons after leaving Madrid. I know what you are so it’s ironic to call me delusional.
Ronaldo was 3rd topscorer in the hardest league in the world at 37 despite playing for a diabolical side. Scored 2 PL hat-trick at 37. He was much better than any player on that list at the same age apart from Modric.
Literally your only argument is that he’s now at Saudi league. If he does well at the euros next summer then we’ll revisit this.
With the exception of Mitrovic all of those players were no longer wanted by top level clubs anymore.
You haven't answered my other question,
Who have been Ronaldo's toughest five opponents since he turned 38?
You do realize that Real Madrid offered Benzema a contract? Are they not a top level club?
I watched most of his games at Juve, especially in his first season because Juve were still serie a top dogs back then. He wasn't as good as in Madrid. Ronaldo was still an excellent goalscorer but also an aging player becoming worse and more limited every year. Benzema was offering so much more than him on the pitch at that point. Pretending that Ronaldo was better than Benzema in 20/21 is absurd; the frenchman finished 4th in the Ballon D'or that season - ahead of Ronaldo - despite not winning a single trophy and not being half the star the portuguese is.
There's no guarantee that Madrid would have fared any better with Ronaldo after 2018. Remember they had also underperformed in the league the previous season when he was still there. They were simply at the end of a cycle in 2018. It's hard to stay hungry after winning so many trophies, and playing 60-70 games per season for years, many of them high intensity european games, eventually takes a toll on players physically and mentally.
Now if we go into the details, Madrid did miss Ronaldo's goals right after he left, but many other factors can explain their dip in form: Zidane, the man who led them to 3 CLs in a row, had also left and they struggled to replace him, Hazard, who was supposed to replace Ronaldo, flopped, Bale became a part-time football player, Marcelo got old overnight and became a defensive liability, etc. The second season without Ronaldo, they won the league again.
I don't think that's really true.
It's the same issue as mentioned before, wages. Nobody wants Neymar because his wages were prohibitive, not because he was a bad player. Nobody in Europe was going to make a better offer to Benzema than Real Madrid so he was going to stay put.
Martial was definitely better than Ronaldo during the 2022-2023 season at United.
Wrong. You didn't respond directly to my arguments too, you are just dodging.
Benzema was clearly best player at Real Madrid and La liga when he leaves them for Saudi. He is Ballon D'or winner in 2022, and he scored 31 goals last seasons. Real wants him to stay but he wants to move to Saudi.
Mahrez was still City key player in their treble winning side few months ago, playing 47 games in treble winning season scoring 15 goals. He is current treble winner.
Neymar is Neymar, and he is only 31. He is still one of the best in the business when he is not injured. Still managed 18 goals 17 assists in 29 games last season playing there as part time footballer.
As for your question, what do you want me to answer? He could only conquer things in front of him, and win the games he is playing. He did all that in 2023 fine. Or let me put it this way, who's Messi toughest opponents in MLS then? Does that make him shit player overnight in MLS for you too?
Your logic is just so flawed.
Ok. But I am talking about year 2023.
You watched his first season at Juve and his last season at Madrid and your conclusion was that he wasn’t as good? All of his dribbling and creative stats in his 1st season at Juve were much better than his last 2 seasons at Madrid. The eye test easily confirms this too so no idea what you saw. He scored less goals but that was a product of the defensive styled team and coach he played under. Also, Benzema had his worst career season in 17/18 so no idea how he was offering more than Ronaldo on the pitch at that point. He was good in 18/19 but wasn’t better than Ronaldo imo. Like I said, there’s no season he was categorically better until 21/22 and I maintain that. The eye test and stats don’t indicate he him being much better. Also, finishing 4th in 20/21 isn’t definitive proo
Yeah there’s no guarantee Real Madrid would have continued to win major trophies like the CL (there’s never a guarantee) but no way they would have dropped it as much as they did in the immediate departure of Ronaldo even with the loss of Zidane.
When Zidane returned and they won the league in 19/20; they had to drastically modify their playing style and won the league by having the best defensive record and still scoring very few goals which was uncharacteristic of Madrid - clearly still feeling the impact of Ronaldo’s departure.
Exactly, I was just pointing out many of the players now in the Saudi league are there for the paycheck, not because they aren't good enough for the top European leagues.
At no point Ronaldo at Juve was better than he was at Madrid. I never said anything about Benzema before 2018. The topic was about Ronaldo and Benzema's performances after the portuguese left. Ronaldo was still scoring lots of goals, and quite a few clutch goals. Benzema started scoring more goals and was far more useful to his team in other facets of football than Ronaldo was. Not sure why you're bringing up the eye test when Ronaldo was providing so little outside of goals, especially when comparing him to probably the most well-rounded striker in the world. He was never going to win this contest.
I also question your ability to understand what you're watching and/or your objectivity, considering you're convinced that Ronaldo could still be Madrid's main man in 2023, a take at least a few posters in this thread - and probably most posters really - found ludicrous. And finishing 4th in the Ballon d'Or without winning a single trophy is a clear indication that a player has had a massive individual season, especially when that player isn't a superstar. You could make a case for both players for 18-20, for 20-22 it's a mismatch.
They won the league in 19/20 at least, which they failed to do with Ronaldo in two of his last three seasons with the club. Football isn't just about scoring goals. Letting him go was the right move at the time, and it became a genius move in hindsight.
Ronaldo does not fall in that category, no serious European side was going to gain anything positive from a player that has lost pace, offers nothing in the build up play or off the ball, forget the issues his over inflated ego brings along, footballing wise he's a lot closer to Saudi league level than even a Ligue 1.
That would be the same Ronaldo who's currently topscorer in Euro qualifying and was 3rd topscorer in his last full season in Europe in the toughest league in the world playing for an awful side.
You're entitled to an opinion.
Not just my opinion, it was also Ten Haag's opinion and apparently every other top club in Europe's opinion.That would be the same Ronaldo who's currently topscorer in Euro qualifying and was 3rd topscorer in his last full season in Europe in the toughest league in the world playing for an awful side.
You're entitled to an opinion.
Ronaldo is not good enough for the top European sides. Or rather, he is not good enough to start every game for such sides, and his ego will not allow him to alternate starts and sub appearances (like Moddric for example, who is a similar age, but humbler and less self-obsessed). So CR had to move to a team and league where he is guaranteed to be in the starting eleven every week. Might as well make that Saudi for the cash as opposed to other, less lucrative options (Portuguese league etc).
What I meant was that pressing was not exactly popular, and most teams did not do it. It gave (older) talented players time to show their skills more. Scholes would be a good example of it. Give him time and space; we know what he could do and he was given those. I really doubt they would have that much time and space if they played now. And when we met Bara's pressing in those finals, it was obvious that our level dropped significantly.
Last edited:
As of present he is good enough to start for Portugal in Euro qualifiers and outscore the likes of Haaland, Mbappe and Kane though. That all it matters now.
Yet everyone knows when it comes to the real thing those players will outperform him. Except maybe Haaland who’ll struggle to get to big tournaments because of his country of origin.
Qualifying for Euro is not a real thing for you?
There are going to be lots of people from many countries disagreeing with you: Italy, Norway, Ireland, Croatia, Poland, Sweden etc
No the qualifiers aren’t the real thing, that’s why they’re called “qualifiers” mate. When Euro 2024 comes around these strikers you’re questioning will do a better job. Your man traditionally doesn’t do particularly well in the knockout rounds of the big tournaments. Playing in such a poor league won’t help him there either. It’s all good and well finishing from a few yards out or from the spot against part timers, but when it comes to playing the big boys he’ll be a real problem for Portugal again.
[l
It was also Ten Hag’s opinion that Antony was worth pissing €100M away for.
With the bolded, let’s just agree to disagree..
Doesn't mean he wasn't right about Ronaldo. We saw how piss poor he looked at the WC as well so it wasn't just an issue solely seen at United.
Maybe that's because he's good and rested fron playing in the 60th best league in the world (or whatever it is) so he's got plenty of energy to score tap ins against cannon fodder in the qualifying rounds of the Euros. The other guys are actually good enough to play week in week out for top clubs in top leagues.
That greatly depends on the team you are playing for. Looking at Rodri in CM for City, he has all the time in the world because they dominate games to such an extent. If Scholes played for Crystal Palace, he wouldn't be afforded that luxury. If he, at his prime, played alongside Bruno and Casemiro, we would also dominate games much more than we currently do. Scholes was able to get the time he needed, not that he was given it. It was the same with Carrick - they created time and space; it wasn't awarded. Playing against Barca, arguably the greatest club team of all time, does not negate that.
And Ronaldo has publicly stated it is his darkest chapter in his career. Thus, it may not be far fetched that because of circumstances his game was impaired, and that may have improved once those external factors had been remedied.
Doesn’t mean he was right either. And it’s funny that only Ronaldo can be crucified for a few months of bad form to being called finished. No other player is held by this standard.
Rashford took a whole season off. Ditto Martial who went on loan and didn’t score ONCE. I remember Hazard taking a whole season off in 2016. But Ronaldo who clearly had problems with the coach and team environment as well as a difficult summer with the passing of his daughter isn’t given any leeway.
Exactly.
Ok. Good luck convincing the same to the Italians, Swedish, Irish, Croatian, Polish and Norwegian fans out there.
None of those players were in their late 30's showing clear signs of physical decline, I'm not even going to touch on his daughters death.
Seems strange how only a Saudi team wanted him despite just a 'few months' of bad form though ..
I'm Irish, if we had Portugal's team and Portugal's group I'd expect to win every game. There is nobody else in their group in the top 40 of the world rankings. The rankings of the other teams in the group are 48, 63, 67, 85 and 199. Taking out the minnows, in our group we're against 2, 7, 51, while Italy are against 4, 24 and 66. They beat Luxembourg 9-0 without Ronaldo, which shows how much of a joke that group is.
So you’re saying age is the main reason you couldn’t give him a chance for a second despite what he’s proven in the past
His reputation was affected by the pressing and toxicity bogus. And most top sides in Europe weren’t in dire need of a 9.