Wasn't that a signing on fee? I was pretty sure Liverpool got nothing for him.
Critics one sided in Benitez debate
- Thread starter thoward
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I suppose it's one thing having the money and another being able to actually get the players. In our case there are players that could improve us but they are either too expensive, they would prefer to stay where they are or go elsewhere, or Fergie, the coaching staff and the scouts may believe that they don't necessarily have the right ingredients to be a success in English football.But we are in a position to go out and spend big next summer if the need arises (unless of course the Glazers clamp down). I don't think Fergie would spend for the sake of it(the squad is as big as ever), I don't think he'd splash the cash just because others were doing it.When you think about over the years we have very rarely bought players from the really top teams, Hargreaves from Bayern and Veron from Lazio (and that was probably down to Lazio's debts and him facing a possible ban over a passport issue).
I think with Liverpool, they can't find it easy to attract the right players necessarily. They could do with a quality forward who could cover for Torres and perhaps at times play alongside him. However that player may not bewilling to spend time on the bench. Look at Robbie Keane, he arrived as a boyhood fan of the club and he plays for Ireland where his place has never really been under threat. And yet he still left about 6 months later.
They got £8 million for him as his contract was due to end in the summer of 2005.
Wasn´t Kuyt like one of the most lethal strikers in the Dutch league before he was converted into a defensive winger at Liverpool?
And I thought he had become a defensive striker.
Loved this:
Kuyt is a flop, was brought to score goals and turned into a defender who puts a shift in.
Christ... Lot of crap in this thread.
Kuyt is not a flop. He was the highest scoring winger behind ronaldo in the league last year and does great work in the buildup. More than worth his place in the first team.
Arbeloa was signed as a cheap squad player, ended up doing so well he grew into a decent firsteamer. He was sold for a pittance because he had one year left and wanted to go home last year, except he agreed to stay on for another season.
Aurelio is a quality player whenever he gets 4 weeks in the side to get his defending back up to scratch. How succesful his contribution has been might be weighted against his injury record but as a player, he was a good signing.
Garcia was second only to Gerrard as our best attacking player during our CL run in 05. That alone makes him a succes for the price, albeit not a resoundingly unqualified one.
Heskey was sold before Benitez arrived. Owen being sold was hardly his decision. Murphy, on being told the shocking news that afa didn't see him as a regular starter, wanted to leave. Kewell was shown a lot of faith by Rafa but in the end it only translated into 15 months of being a good player over four years with rafa. Without even going into the merits of Cisse as a player, he broke his leg twice in one year ffs. A theoretical contribution, even if he had stayed. Finnan had been quite frankly awful in his first season with us under houllier and only came into his own after rafa took over and likewise carragher's recognition as a genuine quality defender only came after he was moved into the centre by benitez and Henchoz was never used by benitez as he deemed him finished due to injuries.
That said, it is true that the team wasn't entirely a shambles and there was material to work with. Hamann was indeed incredibly underrated (second best signing Houllier ever made, imo), Carragher did grow into a great defender, same with Gerrard coming into his own as an attacking midfielder under houllier, Finnan turned into one of the best fullbacks in the league (tbf, he was quality for fulham before that as well), Hyypia is just an immense defender and Riise did do a good job for a few years.
Then again, if there was some material there for a top four team already, I think it would have been very difficult to cement our position in there over the past years for anyone, with the level being what it is (or was) at the top.
And yes, Benitez is no wenger in the transfer market. There's usually a fair correlation between price and quality in his signings.
Kuyt is not a flop. He was the highest scoring winger behind ronaldo in the league last year and does great work in the buildup. More than worth his place in the first team.
Arbeloa was signed as a cheap squad player, ended up doing so well he grew into a decent firsteamer. He was sold for a pittance because he had one year left and wanted to go home last year, except he agreed to stay on for another season.
Aurelio is a quality player whenever he gets 4 weeks in the side to get his defending back up to scratch. How succesful his contribution has been might be weighted against his injury record but as a player, he was a good signing.
Garcia was second only to Gerrard as our best attacking player during our CL run in 05. That alone makes him a succes for the price, albeit not a resoundingly unqualified one.
Heskey was sold before Benitez arrived. Owen being sold was hardly his decision. Murphy, on being told the shocking news that afa didn't see him as a regular starter, wanted to leave. Kewell was shown a lot of faith by Rafa but in the end it only translated into 15 months of being a good player over four years with rafa. Without even going into the merits of Cisse as a player, he broke his leg twice in one year ffs. A theoretical contribution, even if he had stayed. Finnan had been quite frankly awful in his first season with us under houllier and only came into his own after rafa took over and likewise carragher's recognition as a genuine quality defender only came after he was moved into the centre by benitez and Henchoz was never used by benitez as he deemed him finished due to injuries.
That said, it is true that the team wasn't entirely a shambles and there was material to work with. Hamann was indeed incredibly underrated (second best signing Houllier ever made, imo), Carragher did grow into a great defender, same with Gerrard coming into his own as an attacking midfielder under houllier, Finnan turned into one of the best fullbacks in the league (tbf, he was quality for fulham before that as well), Hyypia is just an immense defender and Riise did do a good job for a few years.
Then again, if there was some material there for a top four team already, I think it would have been very difficult to cement our position in there over the past years for anyone, with the level being what it is (or was) at the top.
And yes, Benitez is no wenger in the transfer market. There's usually a fair correlation between price and quality in his signings.
People seems to be forgeting that the 80M we got is thanks to SAF's eye for talent.
It's not like we buy Ronaldo, we developed him.
It's not like we buy Ronaldo, we developed him.
20 minutes wasn't close enough?
Ahh but if you weren't useless, you would have won.
For the record, I don't think Arsenal are useless, particularly in that run to the final.
Kuyt? one half decent year and he is a success?
He's been one of their best players for the last two seasons. Given that he's been there for three, yes I'd call that a success.Kuyt? one half decent year and he is a success?
He sold Hobbs?
Though he was the 'next big thing?'
Though he was the 'next big thing?'
Kuyt's definitely a success. Was fantastic for them last season, and been a solid contributor over the journey.
Riera, on the other hand, still has a bit to prove. Same too with Agger, though this is just a matter of actually getting out on the park, same too with Skrtl (or however you spell his name).
Riera, on the other hand, still has a bit to prove. Same too with Agger, though this is just a matter of actually getting out on the park, same too with Skrtl (or however you spell his name).
To be honest, I don't think I'd put Aurelio, Agger and Riera up there.
Aurelio is a shite full back as we all know.
Agger was injured way too much to say that he was a success, mind you he is a good defender but to me he hasn't proved that he's top notch with one season without even getting injured.
Riera is just too left sided and to me only show glimpses of brillience in the first half of last season. Many occasion's we will see that he relies too much on his left foot when an easy right foot shot could have made him a star. 11m is an okay price but certainly not cheap.
Agreed, hasn't set the world alight but has been consistant enough to say that he's a success.
A more balance article on Benitez
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/aug/10/rafael-benitez-liverpool
Don Welsh is a name now forgotten by all but the most diehard Liverpool fans but the club's manager during its 1950s nadir was the last at Anfield to survive in his job after three successive trophyless seasons - a feat emulated by Rafael Benítez this summer. Not that Benítez's position is under threat. After fighting and winning battles against the owners, the chief executive and more than a dozen of the club's long-serving academy staff, he has established an impregnable position.
As he begins his new five-year contract the club's unpopular owners are too cowed by valid criticisms to exert control in any area other than the size of his transfer budget and Rick Parry, whose alleged caution scuppered Benítez's desire to meet Aston Villa's asking price for Gareth Barry last year, has cleared his desk.
The duties of the man the fans dubbed "Coco the Clown" have been temporarily assumed by the new managing director, Christian Purslow, a Spanish-speaking former season-ticket holder and Harvard Business School MBA who has already, it is said, struck up a good relationship with the manager. Good job, too, as Melwood stalwarts such as Steve Heighway, Hugh McAuley and Dave Shannon have found to their cost over the years. Disagree with the boss over policy and there has only ever been one winner. With the coup d'etat complete and the club being rebuilt to his model, no one stands in his path.
And the fans seem to like it that way. Apart from some disquiet about his fondness for deploying the prosaic Lucas - and Liverpool fans' loyalty to the incumbent manager in the past has not stopped Jamie Carragher and Ronnie Whelan becoming Main Stand scapegoats - the Spaniard sails along with the backing of those who go to games and the rabid support of the cyber warriors and massed ranks of phone-in Ra***ologists.
To them, of course, the pair of trophies he won on penalties in the first two years of his Anfield spell - the thrilling second-half revival against Milan in the 2005 Champions League final and the comeback from two down against West Ham to win the FA Cup - make him immune to criticism. The odd selection mistake, costly and imprudent purchase, overly cautious approach against demonstrably inferior teams or obdurate adherence to a hole-strewn zonal-marking system scarcely make a dent in their icon. In his defence, every manager has flaws and blindspots and his are no more flagrant than his contemporaries' but his tendency in his public pronouncements to flit between mordancy and monotony has given him a reputation for petulance that is difficult to disregard.
His scorn for Everton - the "small club" slur from two years ago and likening them to Extremadura last season - might be written off as barbs in a long-established city rivalry were it not for the disdain with which they were said. Similarly, his handling of the press conference immediately after the news broke that Tom Hicks and George Gillett had sounded out Jürgen Klinsmann as a possible replacement in 2007, was an object lesson in churlishness. Having been upbraided by the owners for his outspokenness about a lack of funds to invest in players, he responded to every single question with: "As always I am focused on training and coaching my team." Again, it could have been funny had it not been delivered with the curled-lip and deliberately heavy-handed sourness of a schoolkid who wants everyone to know they are making a point.
His spat last season with Sir Alex Ferguson was excusable in that it came after he was provoked by the usual post-Christmas mind-games charade of the Manchester United manager. Holed up at home with kidney stones, Benítez seems to have collated a dossier of United's transgressions and he ran through their catalogue of referee-intimidation with barely concealed ire. To some his rising to United's bait played directly into Ferguson's hands but that depends on whether you believe that old claim that Ferguson's mind games are effective. What is sure, though, is that it gave the United manager the ammunition to portray Benítez as unhinged and his quip that he "would need to read more of Freud" before he could understand his rival's thrust was a sharp rejoinder that left the Spaniard looking small when Liverpool failed to hang on at the top of the table.
The title was theirs for the taking. All the spoils from four league games against Manchester United and Chelsea were won and draws home and away against Arsenal meant they comfortably topped the big-four table. But the old problems of a team set-up for Champions League football surfaced in seven home draws when an instinctive dependence on counter-attacking was stymied by a lack of adventure from the home side and the visitors. In the spring the goals came by the bucketload as his perfected and cherished 4-2-3-1 system bore fruit but by then it was too late.
Keeping his key midfielders out of the clutches of Spanish predators has been Benítez's key priority this summer but he has also spared the time to lambast Barry's greed for choosing Manchester City over Liverpool. He can't help himself. Ask him a question and if there's a point to be scored he'll usually oblige. It has served him well during his internal battles. He has got the club in one hand and the fans eating out of the other, but now it is time to deliver.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/aug/10/rafael-benitez-liverpool
Don Welsh is a name now forgotten by all but the most diehard Liverpool fans but the club's manager during its 1950s nadir was the last at Anfield to survive in his job after three successive trophyless seasons - a feat emulated by Rafael Benítez this summer. Not that Benítez's position is under threat. After fighting and winning battles against the owners, the chief executive and more than a dozen of the club's long-serving academy staff, he has established an impregnable position.
As he begins his new five-year contract the club's unpopular owners are too cowed by valid criticisms to exert control in any area other than the size of his transfer budget and Rick Parry, whose alleged caution scuppered Benítez's desire to meet Aston Villa's asking price for Gareth Barry last year, has cleared his desk.
The duties of the man the fans dubbed "Coco the Clown" have been temporarily assumed by the new managing director, Christian Purslow, a Spanish-speaking former season-ticket holder and Harvard Business School MBA who has already, it is said, struck up a good relationship with the manager. Good job, too, as Melwood stalwarts such as Steve Heighway, Hugh McAuley and Dave Shannon have found to their cost over the years. Disagree with the boss over policy and there has only ever been one winner. With the coup d'etat complete and the club being rebuilt to his model, no one stands in his path.
And the fans seem to like it that way. Apart from some disquiet about his fondness for deploying the prosaic Lucas - and Liverpool fans' loyalty to the incumbent manager in the past has not stopped Jamie Carragher and Ronnie Whelan becoming Main Stand scapegoats - the Spaniard sails along with the backing of those who go to games and the rabid support of the cyber warriors and massed ranks of phone-in Ra***ologists.
To them, of course, the pair of trophies he won on penalties in the first two years of his Anfield spell - the thrilling second-half revival against Milan in the 2005 Champions League final and the comeback from two down against West Ham to win the FA Cup - make him immune to criticism. The odd selection mistake, costly and imprudent purchase, overly cautious approach against demonstrably inferior teams or obdurate adherence to a hole-strewn zonal-marking system scarcely make a dent in their icon. In his defence, every manager has flaws and blindspots and his are no more flagrant than his contemporaries' but his tendency in his public pronouncements to flit between mordancy and monotony has given him a reputation for petulance that is difficult to disregard.
His scorn for Everton - the "small club" slur from two years ago and likening them to Extremadura last season - might be written off as barbs in a long-established city rivalry were it not for the disdain with which they were said. Similarly, his handling of the press conference immediately after the news broke that Tom Hicks and George Gillett had sounded out Jürgen Klinsmann as a possible replacement in 2007, was an object lesson in churlishness. Having been upbraided by the owners for his outspokenness about a lack of funds to invest in players, he responded to every single question with: "As always I am focused on training and coaching my team." Again, it could have been funny had it not been delivered with the curled-lip and deliberately heavy-handed sourness of a schoolkid who wants everyone to know they are making a point.
His spat last season with Sir Alex Ferguson was excusable in that it came after he was provoked by the usual post-Christmas mind-games charade of the Manchester United manager. Holed up at home with kidney stones, Benítez seems to have collated a dossier of United's transgressions and he ran through their catalogue of referee-intimidation with barely concealed ire. To some his rising to United's bait played directly into Ferguson's hands but that depends on whether you believe that old claim that Ferguson's mind games are effective. What is sure, though, is that it gave the United manager the ammunition to portray Benítez as unhinged and his quip that he "would need to read more of Freud" before he could understand his rival's thrust was a sharp rejoinder that left the Spaniard looking small when Liverpool failed to hang on at the top of the table.
The title was theirs for the taking. All the spoils from four league games against Manchester United and Chelsea were won and draws home and away against Arsenal meant they comfortably topped the big-four table. But the old problems of a team set-up for Champions League football surfaced in seven home draws when an instinctive dependence on counter-attacking was stymied by a lack of adventure from the home side and the visitors. In the spring the goals came by the bucketload as his perfected and cherished 4-2-3-1 system bore fruit but by then it was too late.
Keeping his key midfielders out of the clutches of Spanish predators has been Benítez's key priority this summer but he has also spared the time to lambast Barry's greed for choosing Manchester City over Liverpool. He can't help himself. Ask him a question and if there's a point to be scored he'll usually oblige. It has served him well during his internal battles. He has got the club in one hand and the fans eating out of the other, but now it is time to deliver.
he even manages to contrdict himself in the space of a couple of sentences, liverpools 87-90 is only listed 5th because they never got a chance to show what they can do in europe, yet arsenal are 1st despite getting that chance and failing miserably
also our 95-01 listing can't be counted as one team, the buys at the start of the treble season completely changed the team.
He wasn't injured in his first full season with us and was perhaps our best player that year.
It was 8m, but even then it's been a mixed bag so far.
Agger's good for scoring cracking goals though...that one at Blackburn was pretty good, even if it was against Blackburn.
Was it him or Aurelio who scored a cracker in their first game?
Was it him or Aurelio who scored a cracker in their first game?