When there are highlights of uniteds greatest moments, how many will contain De Gea? Even Romero was the keeper for the europa league win. That will stop him from being remembered as our greatest keeper.
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DDG: Over 400 apps for our club. Legend status! Was he the best we've had? Shoot!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
12 years. More appearances than the likes of Keane and anyone bar 6 or so people? Great times. Bad times. Was always there throughout so many changes at the club and even though it's best for both partys that he is leaving, I feel similar to when Rooney left. Certified club legend.
Christ what a stupid thread title. “Was he the best we’ve had”. Er a very big resounding NO and I’m not even going to list the keepers who were miles ahead of him.
Really??
Be fair to DDG he didn't have the likes of Stam, Rio, Vidic, Keane type defensive monsters in front of him.
Would that help him coming for crosses or kicking the ball to his own teammates?
Now put them toys back in your pram and give us some names!
I’ve been a season ticket holder since 1995 so feel in a decent position to rate our 3 best gk’s. Personally DDG sits 3rd in the list. Edwin no1.
If DDG could have maintained his best form I’m sure it would have been different.
Edwin was something special though. Had absolutely everything. People forget just how strong he was with both feet. Could pick a 40/50 yard pass with both left and right with pin point accuracy. He was miles ahead of his time. World class shot stopper, amazing presence in the box, leader and full of composure. Big Pete wasn’t too far behind! We’re lucky to have had 3 genuine world class gks in the premier league era. Let’s hope we can talk about Onana in this bracket in the future.
If DDG could have maintained his best form I’m sure it would have been different.
Edwin was something special though. Had absolutely everything. People forget just how strong he was with both feet. Could pick a 40/50 yard pass with both left and right with pin point accuracy. He was miles ahead of his time. World class shot stopper, amazing presence in the box, leader and full of composure. Big Pete wasn’t too far behind! We’re lucky to have had 3 genuine world class gks in the premier league era. Let’s hope we can talk about Onana in this bracket in the future.
Pete and VdS are the top 2. Not sure what order.
de Gea has been a great servant first and a great keeper second, which means he’s comfortably third in the list.
de Gea has been a great servant first and a great keeper second, which means he’s comfortably third in the list.
Depends how you define legend.
Top tier is Scholes, Giggs, Best, Charlton. Maybe Eric. He's not alongside them, obviously.
Just a shade below that are players like Rooney, Keane, Robbo, Irwin, Beckham, Schmikes, etc. He's not in their tier either.
Then you have players like McClair, Vidic, Hughes, Bruce, Carrick, etc. I would probably put him in this tier. I'm happy to call Choccy a legend, so DDG definitely is too. But at a club as storied as ours, there's a lot of players I would say were as or more important than he.
Top tier is Scholes, Giggs, Best, Charlton. Maybe Eric. He's not alongside them, obviously.
Just a shade below that are players like Rooney, Keane, Robbo, Irwin, Beckham, Schmikes, etc. He's not in their tier either.
Then you have players like McClair, Vidic, Hughes, Bruce, Carrick, etc. I would probably put him in this tier. I'm happy to call Choccy a legend, so DDG definitely is too. But at a club as storied as ours, there's a lot of players I would say were as or more important than he.
Really? Wow
Keane and Robbo are nailed on top tier for me and I'd also put Ronaldo in the second tier but I definitely agree with where you placed Dave.
Agree with this largely, although I’d say Pete edges it but I do believe that if we’d signed VDS when he was leaving Juventus (for what was a world record fee for a keeper at the time I seem to remember? £12m), I do think he’d be talked about as the number 1.
I remember De Gea’s prime years where he was comfortably in the top 3 keepers in the world. People were raving about Neuer and I wasn’t convinced because he played in Germany and I hadn’t seen him play all that much, then we drew Bayern in the CL and watching him compared to De Gea was night and day. It was then I became aware of what a complete modern GK was and what De Gea was, which was a great shot stopper and not much else.
Behave
VDS was not even the best in Premier League. He was not better than Cech. In your wildest dreams mate.At 22 years Cech was in Chelsea. At 23 he was won back to back league titles and golden gloves.
Vds at 34 years was at Fulham having been there for 4 years.
Only united fans can pick Vds above Cech. Vds was never above Cech, Buffon, Nuer, Casillas to some extent. Only United fans can place him above those 4 keepers.
A 2007 VDS was unable to dive to kaka first goal.
Unable to save Henry header right straight at him. Same as Messi header in 2009 final.
Even Etoo goal that game was a near post mistake. 2009 final
Even Drogba goal in the league, albeit he was offside, VDS was completely wrong footed. 2010 league game. This is exactly like Pedros goal in 2011 final.
Drogba goal against him straight through VDS 2011 champions league, same same as Messi goal in the final.
Watch all of them here if you forgot.
There is a genuine reason at 34 years he was at Fulham and not a big club. Same as someone like say Oshea, Wes Brown won titles in a united team we can't say they were the best ever.
VDS was just part of a very good team. Especially in that 2008 team him and Wes Brown were the least talented starting 11 players.
VDS even slipped in that game to gift Lampard the goal. 2008 final.
VDS 2009 final let messi header and Etoo near post through.
VDS 2011 final let Pedro wrong foot him and messi straight shot in.
Those are 3 biggest games for United in the last 20 years in champions league.
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I look forward to the very same posters who apply this level of bitterness to De Gea calling you out over it while I sit here laughing at you all.
At 22 years Cech was in Chelsea. At 23 he was won back to back league titles and golden gloves.
Vds at 34 years was at Fulham having been there for 4 years.
Only united fans can pick Vds above Cech. Vds was never above Cech, Buffon, Nuer, Casillas to some extent. Only United fans can place him above those 4 keepers.
A 2007 VDS was unable to dive to kaka first goal.
Unable to save Henry header right straight at him. Same as Messi header in 2009 final.
Even Etoo goal that game was a near post mistake. 2009 final
Even Drogba goal in the league, albeit he was offside, VDS was completely wrong footed. 2010 league game. This is exactly like Pedros goal in 2011 final.
Drogba goal against him straight through VDS 2011 champions league, same same as Messi goal in the final.
Watch all of them here if you forgot.
There is a genuine reason at 34 years he was at Fulham and not a big club. Same as someone like say Oshea, Wes Brown won titles in a united team we can't say they were the best ever.
VDS was just part of a very good team. Especially in that 2008 team him and Wes Brown were the least talented starting 11 players.
VDS even slipped in that game to gift Lampard the goal. 2008 final.
VDS 2009 final let messi header and Etoo near post through.
VDS 2011 final let Pedro wrong foot him and messi straight shot in.
Those are 3 biggest games for United in the last 20 years in champions league.
I think they rated him though. He missed WC2014 because Casillas was a legend and Del Bosque wanted to stick with the captain of the team who won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup. Bear in mind that it was that summer when Madrid wanted to replace Casillas with De Gea. These things happen, for example in last World Cup, Germany played legend Neuer instead of much better Ter Stegen.
Then De Gea became Spain’s main keeper and started in Euros 2016 and World Cup 2018. He fecked it up there and lost his place. But the thing is, from 2018 on, he was not as good as during his peak (2012-2013 to 2017-2018). And during his peak, he started in two out of three big tournaments for them.
Best player of post-Fergie era. And the right time to go.
My basic thoughts are:
1) Schmeichel and VDS had a more uniformly consistent time here and won major trophies as part of our best era, so they will be remembered as our best goalkeepers.
2) De Gea at his peak was one of the best goalkeepers in the world, the best shot-stopper I've seen and the player we've been most dependent on in since I've been following United. He was our best player of the hell decade that was the 2010s and very arguably the best PL goalkeeper of the 2010s given he appeared in the PFA team of the year in literally five out of those ten years. Add his longevity to that, having the 7th most appearances of any player in our history, and he's unquestionably a legend here in his own right and will be remembered as such. Frankly I think arguments to the contrary are pretty stupid.
3) De Gea's decline in recent years is counting against him. But then again, those years of decline also added to his longevity, which I've just counted as a point in his favour. So it balances out in terms of how we view him overall. It just shouldn't cause us to downplay how good he was at his peak, a peak that was about as long as VDS' entire time here.
4) One very key difference in how all three are viewed is the fan-era in which they played, with De Gea being the only one to exist in the social media age. This means the sheer amount of scrutiny he was under during his time here is vastly beyond anything Schmeichel and VDS experienced, with his every fault and mistake being torn apart and compiled by both normal fans and the sort of weird online ******* with pro/anti player agendas, and his entire profile as a goalkeeper being statistically dissected. Had Schmeichel and VDS existed in this era, we would be far more aware of their flaws, mistakes and stylistic imperfections.
1) Schmeichel and VDS had a more uniformly consistent time here and won major trophies as part of our best era, so they will be remembered as our best goalkeepers.
2) De Gea at his peak was one of the best goalkeepers in the world, the best shot-stopper I've seen and the player we've been most dependent on in since I've been following United. He was our best player of the hell decade that was the 2010s and very arguably the best PL goalkeeper of the 2010s given he appeared in the PFA team of the year in literally five out of those ten years. Add his longevity to that, having the 7th most appearances of any player in our history, and he's unquestionably a legend here in his own right and will be remembered as such. Frankly I think arguments to the contrary are pretty stupid.
3) De Gea's decline in recent years is counting against him. But then again, those years of decline also added to his longevity, which I've just counted as a point in his favour. So it balances out in terms of how we view him overall. It just shouldn't cause us to downplay how good he was at his peak, a peak that was about as long as VDS' entire time here.
4) One very key difference in how all three are viewed is the fan-era in which they played, with De Gea being the only one to exist in the social media age. This means the sheer amount of scrutiny he was under during his time here is vastly beyond anything Schmeichel and VDS experienced, with his every fault and mistake being torn apart and compiled by both normal fans and the sort of weird online ******* with pro/anti player agendas, and his entire profile as a goalkeeper being statistically dissected. Had Schmeichel and VDS existed in this era, we would be far more aware of their flaws, mistakes and stylistic imperfections.
Point 4 above is relevant but the +'ve's also works in your favour. Depends on the mentality of the player how much it's affects their game overall- for example see Treebeard (sorry Maguire) not being able to handle it - and which I think we agree that maybe DDG's own psyche isn't as strong as it was and maybe plays a contributing factor. Not sure what goes through a goalie's head when they have little do for 80 mins apart from the taunts from opposition fans behind you.
From memory - just before big Pete left, didn't he do a bit of a howler in a CL game? and got a load of flack and the 'he's not as good as he was - the old Pete would have saved that' came out from all parties.
For the comparisons in general - he was the best shot stopper IMO but with such crap defences over the last decade had lot more practice that Peter/VDS in that regard. I wish him well and would have liked to see him with more trophies as he kept us at least from being totally embarrassed in league positions in the 'dead years'. Conversely though, a lot of mistake in the last couple of years in SF's - could have given us more cups.
Penalties though .... I would have put Hendo on in the Europa final in the last minute of ET for them - a good psyche boost both ways - but have to be a tough manager do to that. Although remember SAF dropped Leighton for the replay.... I also think Gary Bailey would have been on off our top 5 all time goalies had he not got injured and talked of in the same breath.
From memory - just before big Pete left, didn't he do a bit of a howler in a CL game? and got a load of flack and the 'he's not as good as he was - the old Pete would have saved that' came out from all parties.
For the comparisons in general - he was the best shot stopper IMO but with such crap defences over the last decade had lot more practice that Peter/VDS in that regard. I wish him well and would have liked to see him with more trophies as he kept us at least from being totally embarrassed in league positions in the 'dead years'. Conversely though, a lot of mistake in the last couple of years in SF's - could have given us more cups.
Penalties though .... I would have put Hendo on in the Europa final in the last minute of ET for them - a good psyche boost both ways - but have to be a tough manager do to that. Although remember SAF dropped Leighton for the replay.... I also think Gary Bailey would have been on off our top 5 all time goalies had he not got injured and talked of in the same breath.
12 years and shit load of appearances, made saves that most Keepers couldn't, kept us competitive for seasons when the rest were dreadful, would have loved him behind class CBs for long periods, the guys had to put up with Maguire ffs .....
It was time for him to go though because ETH needs to move the squad on. Legend yes was he the best we've had maybe no ..
It was time for him to go though because ETH needs to move the squad on. Legend yes was he the best we've had maybe no ..
DdG can be very lucky that he didn’t have them ahead of him most of the time, especially Stam or Keane. They wouldn’t have accepted his coward goal keeping for more than a couple of seasons.
Joint top with Ronaldo on 4 POTY award plus 12yrs solid service and various trophies along the way, so deserves to be in a 'legends' discussion
Clearly behind Schmeichel and VDS in best keeper I've seen though
Clearly behind Schmeichel and VDS in best keeper I've seen though
That is just far too long for me to address point by point. You've named a small handful of mistakes, a lot of which weren't even mistakes out of hundreds of games played.
At 22 years Cech was in Chelsea. At 23 he was won back to back league titles and golden gloves.
Vds at 34 years was at Fulham having been there for 4 years.
Only united fans can pick Vds above Cech. Vds was never above Cech, Buffon, Nuer, Casillas to some extent. Only United fans can place him above those 4 keepers.
A 2007 VDS was unable to dive to kaka first goal.
Unable to save Henry header right straight at him. Same as Messi header in 2009 final.
Even Etoo goal that game was a near post mistake. 2009 final
Even Drogba goal in the league, albeit he was offside, VDS was completely wrong footed. 2010 league game. This is exactly like Pedros goal in 2011 final.
Drogba goal against him straight through VDS 2011 champions league, same same as Messi goal in the final.
Watch all of them here if you forgot.
There is a genuine reason at 34 years he was at Fulham and not a big club. Same as someone like say Oshea, Wes Brown won titles in a united team we can't say they were the best ever.
VDS was just part of a very good team. Especially in that 2008 team him and Wes Brown were the least talented starting 11 players.
VDS even slipped in that game to gift Lampard the goal. 2008 final.
VDS 2009 final let messi header and Etoo near post through.
VDS 2011 final let Pedro wrong foot him and messi straight shot in.
Those are 3 biggest games for United in the last 20 years in champions league.
Van Der Sar was better than De Gea and he was better than Cech. I'm not really interested in going point by point for paragraphs so you can have your opinion and I'll have mine.
Edwin joined in 2005.
DDG was stability on the pitch when we needed it the most. For that we are hugely grateful and it can not be emphasised enough how important it has been to us over the last decade. That's why he will always have **** status in my eyes. He was the top gk in the world for many years, he could have gone to Real or back to Pathetico Madrid, but he stayed to help out and was rewarded handsomely for it.
Unfortunately the position of gk has extra needs now which he can not fulfill. And we have an excellent coach who is pushing us as fast as we can in the modern day direction.
Wish him all the best and many more years of success.
Unfortunately the position of gk has extra needs now which he can not fulfill. And we have an excellent coach who is pushing us as fast as we can in the modern day direction.
Wish him all the best and many more years of success.
When you say stability, what exactly do you mean?
VDS better than Cech. Please what are you smoking. Pass it over. You can't reply because you can't discredit anything because they are facts, not assumptions or my thoughts.
Cech at 23 years was a back to back EPL winner + Golden glove winner.
Vds at 31-35 years was playing at Fulham. Mighty Fulham.
All those mistakes, around 4 of them happened in the biggest games in United Champions League history in the last 15 years.
He can be better than DDG, fair enough but saying he's better than Cech and being the best in the league is a fallacy.
VDS at 35-40 was lifting PL trophies and CL trophies.
You can't reply because you can't discredit anything because they are facts, not assumptions or my thoughts.
Cech at 23 years was a back to back EPL winner + Golden glove winner.
Vds at 31-35 years was playing at Fulham. Mighty Fulham.
All those mistakes, around 4 of them happened in the biggest games in United Champions League history in the last 15 years.
He can be better than DDG, fair enough but saying he's better than Cech and being the best in the league is a fallacy.
Cech at 32 was bench player and at 33 was flogged to Arsenal, by 36 he was benched by Leno
VdS at 37-38 was winning CL trophy by winning penalty shoot out, Cech was signing his retirement collection application at that age.
Almost like players, particularly goalkeepers develop at different rates and ages.
You can't reply because you can't discredit anything because they are facts, not assumptions or my thoughts.
Cech at 23 years was a back to back EPL winner + Golden glove winner.
Vds at 31-35 years was playing at Fulham. Mighty Fulham.
All those mistakes, around 4 of them happened in the biggest games in United Champions League history in the last 15 years.
He can be better than DDG, fair enough but saying he's better than Cech and being the best in the league is a fallacy.
VDS at 36 was winning the CL. At 38 was beating Cech's clean sheet minutes record. At 40 he was winning the PL whilst still playing over 40 games a season.
Cech at 35 was washed up and playing for a poor Arsenal side. At 40, he had gone to play hockey.
I'd have young Cech over young VDS, but older VDS over older Cech.
No doubt about that. Among goalkeepers of the modern era, only for Buffon can the case be made that he aged more gracefully than Edwin. It's amazing to think that he won a PL title and was in the starting line-up of the CL finalists when he was 40 years old. I don't think many people grasp or appreciate the level of perceptiveness and intelligence required to play the game at the highest level when you're the last line of defence and your agility has abandoned you. It's definitely not something that can be shown in highlight reels.
Exactly, also iirc it was Rio or Vida who said how having VdS in goal helped the entire defence as he kept shouting instructions to defense, even something like which leg to use to block shots something like that.
To me, he’s 3rd to VDS and Schmeichel (who are 2nd and 1st respectively). Thing with DDG is he’s actually been part of more bad United teams than good ones, and it’s a damning thing on our team in hindsight that a goalkeeper won club player of the year as much as he did.
Schmeichel looked like he was on his way out quality wise in 98/99 and jumped out at the right time. VDS was the same in his last season but he was 40. DDG has been declining for the past four years at least for all to see.
I still respect his status with the club but it’s time to move on. The game has evolved beyond him where sweeper keepers are now the thing. Competitive sport is a cutthroat business and you could go from prince to pauper in no time (and vice versa), through no fault of your own sometimes.
Schmeichel looked like he was on his way out quality wise in 98/99 and jumped out at the right time. VDS was the same in his last season but he was 40. DDG has been declining for the past four years at least for all to see.
I still respect his status with the club but it’s time to move on. The game has evolved beyond him where sweeper keepers are now the thing. Competitive sport is a cutthroat business and you could go from prince to pauper in no time (and vice versa), through no fault of your own sometimes.
Edwin.
Peter.
Dave.
Bye.
Peter.
Dave.
Bye.
I've lived through Leighton, Bosnich, Schmeichel, Barthez, Carroll, van der Sar, and de Gea. All marvelous goalkeepers. David de Gea is by far the greatest of the lot, through my eyes. He came in at the age of twenty and had big boots to fill. He had a rough start and developed into the greatest goalkeeper I have seen in the history of the sport. I'm at liberty to say this because I believe the role of a goalkeeper is to save shots and he did that better than anyone I have ever seen. It brings tears to my eyes writing this such is the admiration and love I have for the fella. If only he had been part of a better squad. While fans wax lyrical about overrated players such as Marcus Rashford who has had two relatively good seasons, they have moaned about de Gea countless times throughout the years for sustained periods. The man has exceeded expectations and hasn't had a good defence in front of him since he arrived. He has put his heart and soul into his performances.
He is a club legend and if he had been part of a better squad a statue would have been erected in his honour. He is utterly marvelous and has been a joy to watch. I will miss him dearly. I hope, and have no doubt, that he succeeds in his future endeavours. Without David de Gea this club would have been in an even more dire state. The man is a legend of football.
He is a club legend and if he had been part of a better squad a statue would have been erected in his honour. He is utterly marvelous and has been a joy to watch. I will miss him dearly. I hope, and have no doubt, that he succeeds in his future endeavours. Without David de Gea this club would have been in an even more dire state. The man is a legend of football.
This is just a wall of text. Over half is irrelevant (why does age matter for example).
At 22 years Cech was in Chelsea. At 23 he was won back to back league titles and golden gloves.
Vds at 34 years was at Fulham having been there for 4 years.
Only united fans can pick Vds above Cech. Vds was never above Cech, Buffon, Nuer, Casillas to some extent. Only United fans can place him above those 4 keepers.
A 2007 VDS was unable to dive to kaka first goal.
Unable to save Henry header right straight at him. Same as Messi header in 2009 final.
Even Etoo goal that game was a near post mistake. 2009 final
Even Drogba goal in the league, albeit he was offside, VDS was completely wrong footed. 2010 league game. This is exactly like Pedros goal in 2011 final.
Drogba goal against him straight through VDS 2011 champions league, same same as Messi goal in the final.
Watch all of them here if you forgot.
There is a genuine reason at 34 years he was at Fulham and not a big club. Same as someone like say Oshea, Wes Brown won titles in a united team we can't say they were the best ever.
VDS was just part of a very good team. Especially in that 2008 team him and Wes Brown were the least talented starting 11 players.
VDS even slipped in that game to gift Lampard the goal. 2008 final.
VDS 2009 final let messi header and Etoo near post through.
VDS 2011 final let Pedro wrong foot him and messi straight shot in.
Those are 3 biggest games for United in the last 20 years in champions league.
Cech was an elite keeper but he had two huge weaknesses, ball at feet and coming off his line. Otherwise he was amazing. He played in a very defensive Chelsea team with a deep back line which is why he was such a good choice for them, his weaknesses weren’t on show and how could do what he was great at, coming out, being dominant in his box and he was also a good shot stopper.
VDS didn’t really have a weakness that’s why he’s better for me. You could probably name other keepers who were better at certain things than him but none who were as well rounded until Neuer (who himself said VDS was his biggest inspiration for his playing style) came along.
You can argue some of those clips are mild errors but it would be harsh - Eto’o form point blank for example is more on the defenders he’s skinned than any keeper. Some simply aren’t though, Pedro’s goal isn’t an error and the Lampard goal just shows, quite frankly, either a terrible eye or complete bias. It was a double deflection and you’re blaming VDS for the goal.
This poster has so many clown posts saying more or less the same thing all the time. I am surprised he didn’t manage to add a line criticising Bruno even in the gk discussion as that’s what he usually does.
And as you say why should age matter in this context. And it’s not like VdS himself wasn’t winning big trophies as a young goal keeper.
At 22 years Cech was in Chelsea. At 23 he was won back to back league titles and golden gloves.
Vds at 34 years was at Fulham having been there for 4 years.
Only united fans can pick Vds above Cech. Vds was never above Cech, Buffon, Nuer, Casillas to some extent. Only United fans can place him above those 4 keepers.
A 2007 VDS was unable to dive to kaka first goal.
Unable to save Henry header right straight at him. Same as Messi header in 2009 final.
Even Etoo goal that game was a near post mistake. 2009 final
Even Drogba goal in the league, albeit he was offside, VDS was completely wrong footed. 2010 league game. This is exactly like Pedros goal in 2011 final.
Drogba goal against him straight through VDS 2011 champions league, same same as Messi goal in the final.
Watch all of them here if you forgot.
There is a genuine reason at 34 years he was at Fulham and not a big club. Same as someone like say Oshea, Wes Brown won titles in a united team we can't say they were the best ever.
VDS was just part of a very good team. Especially in that 2008 team him and Wes Brown were the least talented starting 11 players.
VDS even slipped in that game to gift Lampard the goal. 2008 final.
VDS 2009 final let messi header and Etoo near post through.
VDS 2011 final let Pedro wrong foot him and messi straight shot in.
Those are 3 biggest games for United in the last 20 years in champions league.
Despite that he was such a commanding and calming influence at the back that we had one of the best defences in Europe over the time he was here.
The same defence basically fell apart in front of De Gea.
You are right though Peak Cech was probably a better all round keeper. Not by much mind.
For me he is a club legend, I will be forever grateful for his service, and I hope he does well wherever he goes.
But as good as his peak was, for me he is behind Pete and Edwin. They both were more complete keepers and had a higher trophy tally. Although in Dave’s defense, he didn’t have the defenders the other two had.
But as good as his peak was, for me he is behind Pete and Edwin. They both were more complete keepers and had a higher trophy tally. Although in Dave’s defense, he didn’t have the defenders the other two had.