De Gea makes our defensive midfielders look bad?

[Andersons Dietician]

You can see the people who were rubbish at football in this thread. DeGea should never have been giving the ball to Matic in that situation. Yes Matic screws up, but he should never have been given the option to screw up by DeGea as Matic is effectively blind as to what is behind him and DeGea can see the whole play developing.

Watching the game as soon as he went to give him the ball my reaction was what the hell are you doing before the ball had even got to Matic. DeGea made a huge mistake in that screw up as well.

I can’t really recall the Fred one that well but I don’t think Fred was under as much pressure as Matic was and he I think was on the turn when he got it.

 

[flappyjay]

I think it was instructions, to build up play from the back instead of just kicking it long. We will have problems initially but we have to take the risk to move to next level.

Rojo was available for a pass

 

[flappyjay]

De Gea's passing is fine, he's not Xavi but he doesn't need to be. The pass that Matic messed up against Milan is the kind of pass Busquets handles without issues. We don't have a quality defensive midfielder who can take the ball off our defence and start our attacks.

Passing is not just about the ball reaching its destination, you have to choose the best man for a pass, especially de Gea who had a bit more time to assess. He would have seen Rojo standing all alone at the left

 

[Kostur]

Against Milan it was Matić's shit first touch that cost him and us, Fred I cannot remember but given how erratic he is I presume this was the case as well. DDG's passing is average but he wasn't at fault here, we've got schemes how to play it from the back so skipping two CBs who are most likely occupied by forwards' pressing and passing it straight to the CDM dates back to Jesus times. Could change with the recent change to the defenders being let into the box though.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

You can see the people who were rubbish at football in this thread. DeGea should never have been giving the ball to Matic in that situation. Yes Matic screws up, but he should never have been given the option to screw up by DeGea as Matic is effectively blind as to what is behind him and DeGea can see the whole play developing.

Watching the game as soon as he went to give him the ball my reaction was what the hell are you doing before the ball had even got to Matic. DeGea made a huge mistake in that screw up as well.

I can’t really recall the Fred one that well but I don’t think Fred was under as much pressure as Matic was and he I think was on the turn when he got it.

Tbh mate if you were half decent at football then you would know how to deal with a situation like that. Yes, the pass is poor and De Gea shouldn't have played it, but when you're blind to the play behind you, the last thing you do is dawdle on the ball. You should hurry to it and pop it off to another player asap

 

[flappyjay]

Against Milan it was Matić's shit first touch that cost him and us, Fred I cannot remember but given how erratic he is I presume this was the case as well. DDG's passing is average but he wasn't at fault here, we've got schemes how to play it from the back so skipping two CBs who are most likely occupied by forwards' pressing and passing it straight to the CDM dates back to Jesus times. Could change with the recent change to the defenders being let into the box though.

Rojo was completely unmarked in this instance and the attackers stood either of Matic.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I disagree that pass wasn't fine, it was risky and unnecessary though a better midfielder would have made better work of it.

 

[Skills]

Players make mistakes, especially if you're trying to play out of the back rather than hoofing it straight back up. Our fans are just too vindictive and unforgiving.

 

[Abhinav]

You can see the people who were rubbish at football in this thread. DeGea should never have been giving the ball to Matic in that situation. Yes Matic screws up, but he should never have been given the option to screw up by DeGea as Matic is effectively blind as to what is behind him and DeGea can see the whole play developing.

Watching the game as soon as he went to give him the ball my reaction was what the hell are you doing before the ball had even got to Matic. DeGea made a huge mistake in that screw up as well.

I can’t really recall the Fred one that well but I don’t think Fred was under as much pressure as Matic was and he I think was on the turn when he got it.

Passes like these are routinely made by the top possession teams in the world. If you search for it you will find countless passes like these made by Valdes during Pep’s Barca, Ederson, Allison etc. What is different is how skilled their outfield players are at receiving and circulating the ball. If you want to play from the back, you will end up making mistakes. What you hope is that your players have the skill to get out of a tough situation.

I think this more of a question to Ole rather than David - do we have the players to execute a possession based build up play or are we taking unnecessary risks given the lack of technical capability in the team. It might be something Ole is trying to instil with a view of progressing the team’s build up play for the future, knowing fully well the risks associated with it.

 

[roonster09]

Rojo was available for a pass

So was Matic.

Edit: Unless you meant Rojo was available for Matic too.

 

[roonster09]

You can see the people who were rubbish at football in this thread. DeGea should never have been giving the ball to Matic in that situation. Yes Matic screws up, but he should never have been given the option to screw up by DeGea as Matic is effectively blind as to what is behind him and DeGea can see the whole play developing.

Watching the game as soon as he went to give him the ball my reaction was what the hell are you doing before the ball had even got to Matic. DeGea made a huge mistake in that screw up as well.

I can’t really recall the Fred one that well but I don’t think Fred was under as much pressure as Matic was and he I think was on the turn when he got it.

Posts like these are just hilarious.

 

[settembrini]

It wasn't a good pass by De Gea but Matic was just laughably bad. The safe option would have been to pass it first time to Rojo but Matic never does anything first time. He took one touch, then he tried to take another touch but it was awful and he lost control of the ball, then he was tackled. This sort of situation happened to him regularly last season and it will happen again this season.

 

[Eckers99]

People saying that Xavi could've controlled that pass easily doesn't make it a good pass. If I'm a DM, on the edge of my box, with opposition players around me, I don't want and shouldn't expect, that pass from De Gea.

 

[edgar allan]

I think you're right about Matic but the pass was unnecessarily risky, DDG's distribution is one of the poorer sides of his game, passing between two attackers on the edge of your box like that is asking for trouble when you have an unmarked player out on the left who could have easily received the ball, bad decision making by DDG.

But you're right Matic could have dealt with it better

Better off hoofing it up the pitch than playing a pass to Matic

 

[mitchmouse]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

I said this at the time.. and stick by it. Some people here just refuse to criticise him. He was pretty poor last season

 

[midnightmare]

DdG's distribution isn't the best - but some of the statements here border on "DdG should know that Matic isn't skillful enough and should not put him into the position where he could make an expensive mistake". Well, we're supposed to be an ambitious club. We're supposed to have players that can anticipate plays and be smart. Most on here cribbed about the "safe" passing under LvG. Well, that is what you get when players are constantly trying to avoid putting their colleagues into a position where they could make a mistake. Ole wants to play football that will build from the back and be rapid and full of intent. Our players need to either prove they can live with it - or get benched / sold.

In Matic's case, he was laughably poor. No top-four team can afford a DM with poor positional awareness who can't anticipate an opponent bearing down on him.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Posts like these are just hilarious.

As are the responses you get from people offended by them. Says a lot about them. the fact is Matic is in a terrible position already under pressure from 2 players before the ball has been played to him.
He screws up but again anyone with half a brain can see that isn’t the right option for DeGea to take.

@Jordan_mufc if I was half decent at football I would have turned around and asked DeGea what the hell he was thinking after I’d pinged it straight back at him for giving me a ball in a stupid position. However I wouldn’t have been in the position Matic was as I’d either be on the move to DeGea or on the turn if I could but even then two players in very close proximity to me to take that pass on the turn even then I’m at a disadvantage.

Simply that pass should never have been made.

 

[Lash]

Passing is not just about the ball reaching its destination, you have to choose the best man for a pass, especially de Gea who had a bit more time to assess. He would have seen Rojo standing all alone at the left

the ball to Matic was a far better option, he broke the line with it. If Matic could turn on the ball, he would have the whole pitch to chose a pass. You pass to Rojo and all he does is pass it to Shaw, who in turn probably passes it back.

 

[Vault Dweller]

His passing is fine, it's the DM's being unable to take the ball on the turn or at pace which causes us real issues imo.

 

[roonster09]

As are the responses you get from people offended by them. Says a lot about them.

No one gets offended by these silly posts. It's like "people who don't agree with me are just dumb" posts which are just nonsense.

If I was arsed, I would have posted few videos showing how midfielders receive pass when pressed but that would be too much effort for a waste of post.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

As are the responses you get from people offended by them. Says a lot about them. the fact is Matic is in a terrible position already under pressure from 2 players before the ball has been played to him.
He screws up but again anyone with half a brain can see that isn’t the right option for DeGea to take.

@Jordan_mufc if I was half decent at football I would have turned around and asked DeGea what the hell he was thinking after I’d pinged it straight back at him for giving me a ball in a stupid position. However I wouldn’t have been in the position Matic was as I’d either be on the move to DeGea or on the turn if I could but even then two players in very close proximity to me to take that pass on the turn even then I’m at a disadvantage.

Simply that pass should never have been made.

Maybe in your Sunday league team but football has evolved and the top teams play these risky passes all the time and that's the level we're aiming for. Expecting a £140k p/w midfielder to control a ball, or at least pop it back to keeper/Rojo isn't unreasonable. There's plenty of examples of 'passes that should never have been made' in this Ederson compilation but City's midfielders deal with it.

 

[Dan_F]

I thought it was the right pass to make. If Matic controls it, then we’ve broken the press and taken four Milan players out of the game. De Gea passes it Rojo and all we’re doing is giving them a chance to press higher, which is going to end with Rojo smashing the ball forward.

 

[BusbyMalone]

For me the pass wasn't great. And this isn't the first time De Gea has been let down by his passing. His distribution is truly awful. In all the years he's been here he still hasn't improved on this. Of course Matic bungles it, as you can see by his second touch, but the pass was not a good one especially when you consider the other options he had.

 

[arthurka]

Why is this even a debate? It wasnt a bad pass it was a poor touch and then even poorer execution from Matic. This is clearly something we are working on and it shows that our DM arent good enough to work with this.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I thought it was the right pass to make. If Matic controls it, then we’ve broken the press and taken four Milan players out of the game. De Gea passes it Rojo and all we’re doing is giving them a chance to press higher, which is going to end with Rojo smashing the ball forward.

Exactly, passing through the lines is something we've been crap at and why we look so toothless except when we manage to break on the counter. So many of our fans have such dated attitudes.

De Gea's distribution isn't great but it's not 'truly awful' either and there was nothing wrong with that pass.

 

[harms]

Bravo had attempted multiple risky passes through the center in the game against Liverpool, but City players had to problems controlling them. Matic's first touch is the issue here, and poor awareness of his surroundings.

 

[Maticmaker]

The problem as with all such matters that go wrong, is the timing, Fred was having fitful game and Matic is suffering lack of mobility from his long term back problem (why Chelsea let him go!) DDG should not have trusted either with such a pass.

 

[Greck]

Nothing wrong with De Gea passing to a player under pressure. Other big teams aren't just going to let you pass out of the back. They too press high. We've seen how Liverpool swarm even City when they meet. Were there better options? Yes. But many times there won't be and you need your DM to be capable or we'll be back to hoofing it

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Why is this even a discussion? It's blatantly obvious Matic fecked up. Twice even, because after he messed up and lost the ball he was too slow to snuff out the danger and made the wrong call again by running forward trying to press the man in possession while he should have spotted the free man that received the pass and either held his ground or try to cut out the pass.

 

[WireMUFC]

Football players make mistakes.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Maybe in your Sunday league team but football has evolved and the top teams play these risky passes all the time and that's the level we're aiming for. Expecting a £140k p/w midfielder to control a ball, or at least pop it back to keeper/Rojo isn't unreasonable. There's plenty of examples of 'passes that should never have been made' in this Ederson compilation but City's midfielders deal with it.

No offence but knowing your team mates and their limitations should also affect your thought process so given we all know Matic doesn’t have that great of a touch, turns like a tanker why would you give him the pass. Decisions people, and he’s made a poor one by giving it to Matic in that position who isn’t even placed well to receive a ball.

It’s all good saying players receive balls in that situation, we all know this and some can do it under more pressure than others but common sense comes in to it as well.

Simply DeGea made a poor choice, Matic then did what Matic does. It’s that simple.

What’s even funnier is your video proves my point because he makes 1 central pass to someone who is under pressure from 1 player in that video. That’s it. The rest if there is a press on a player he pops it off to the wing. No ball goes central unless there is space and time for it.

The one that has similarities to Matic even though they aren’t really all that similar the ball is sent straight back to a defender that is sitting wider than Ederson. There is something earlier where they play the ball about a few times in the box and then he plays it centrally to a player moving in to space up the field which would be the correct way to play out from the back.

If people can’t see the issue with giving the ball to Matic in that scenario then I stand by my first sentence of my first post.

It’s simply a poor decision to give the ball to Matic under those circumstances. Playing from the back isn’t wrong but your video highlights how it should be done and we demonstrated how it shouldn’t be done.

 

[Foxbatt]

This is why we are so poor. Any decent player should be able to receive a pass in that situation. It is not as if he was covered by two opposing players. It was his lack of ball control and not knowing what was going on that led to the goal. He had a few options in dealing with the ball. At this level we have to expect that any player is able to control a ball that is passed to him at that pace and at that angle.
Players should be able to receive passes under pressure and control the ball. If we do not have players of that quality then no point in trying to win trophies. It was not a difficult pass at all. I would say most Sunday players would have controlled that ball. Matic simply messed it up.

 

[SlimDizzle075]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

I would say our defensive midfielders make themselves look bad all on their own. as Matic stands and watches his man score.

 

[Dec9003]

It's both players' faults imo.
De Gea panicked because a player was on him and played a pass to Matic who had two players close to him.
Matic messed his touch up, gives it away, bad attempt at a save from De Gea and suddenly we've conceded.
De Gea shouldn't have expected that Matic could play it out under the pressure of two players, and Matic probably shouldn't have been on the pitch.

 

[caid]

They pressed well and it was a dangerous pass to play, so I wouldn't say De Gea is entirely innocent. Matic could and should have done better though all the same.

 

[Stadjer]

They pressed well and it was a dangerous pass to play, so I wouldn't say De Gea is entirely innocent. Matic could and should have done better though all the same.

But a good player would play out of that pressure. Someone like Frenkie de Jong would love that situation for example... Matic did everything wrong in that situation against Milan.

Frenkie de Jong is a good player and Matic isnt a good player... guess that is the big difference.

 

[Greck]

It's both players' faults imo.
De Gea panicked because a player was on him and played a pass to Matic who had two players close to him.
Matic messed his touch up, gives it away, bad attempt at a save from De Gea and suddenly we've conceded.
De Gea shouldn't have expected that Matic could play it out under the pressure of two players, and Matic probably shouldn't have been on the pitch.

Good summary. De Gea needs to be better and Matic needs to be somewhere else

 

[Ekeke]

Being able to receive those kinds of passes is one of the most important parts of playing DM

 

[Charlie Foley]

This was Matic vs Milan (see 1:07)

This is Matic’s fault. I would understand the point of a straight out pass versus a diagonal if the pass meant the receiving player received the ball at an angle where he couldn’t see oncoming opponents but DDG could. That is not the case here-Matic lost the ball because of a poor touch. Receiving the ball at an angle where he’s more open to the play wouldn’t have fixed it

 

[caid]

But a good player would play out of that pressure. Someone like Frenkie de Jong would love that situation for example... Matic did everything wrong in that situation against Milan.

Frenkie de Jong is a good player and Matic isnt a good player... guess that is the big difference.

Its a hard one for de gea tbh. If Mourinho is the coach hes going to hoof that forward every time, maybe roll it out to rojo to do the same. So he plays it out to the easier midfielder to reach with more space behind him, which makes sense. But then its not a great pass and with how hes positioned his body its pretty obvious where hes sending the pass, so hes giving the guys pressing every advantage they can ask for really. Still though. Matic has plenty of space behind him and could have positioned himself better or started moving away from the two guys pressing, he didn't. He took 2 touches to control the ball on the edge of our box, the first left it stuck under his feet, which is pretty unforgivable for a midfielder in the modern game.
Matic was at fault really but De Gea could have done a bit better (and i think watching 2 mins of that ederson video should really drive home why). I still hold high standards for the guy so im going to nitpick at things i ignore for Matic.