Did Woodward get it right, then?

[CG1010]

Based on just media reports, what woody got right:
- Ruled out selling Martial and possibly, Pogba and gave the two assurances about their future
- Seems to have understood the need for a footballing director (but remains to be seen)
- Sacking Mourinho before we got out of top 4 but still waited too long in my opinion.

I won't give him points on appointing Ole and Phelan as that clearly seems to be a master-mind idea of SAF.

What he got wrong:
- Not backing Mourinho in the transfer window after giving him a contract extension, especially in CB and RW - which effectively has written off this season for us.
- Ruling out signings like Perisic in the previous windows who would have been a good addition for us IMO.

 

[roonster09]

Woodward made right decision to sack Jose, just that it was bit late to pull the trigger. He was also right in not spending money to sign players like Perisic, Willian, or not selling players like Martial.

We should have added more to the squad, with benefit of hindsight I'm glad we didn't sign any Jose targets. Shame he wasn't sacked after that Sevilla PC or in preseason when he kept moaning about everything.

 

[Amar__]

No, he's an idiot, which is proven time and time again. He should be shifted from a football related position since obviously he has no idea about football.

 

[Sky1981]

Woodward is human.

Some of you lot acting like you have a crystal ball

 

[Ban]

No. He still has to hire a DOF and stop making football decisions. He has a big summer in front of him, signing players and clearing of the deadwood and were yet to see if he'll keep Ole or go for a new manager although that of course depends how will Ole do.
So only thing he got was hiring Ole as a temporary manager for now.

 

[devilish]

The problem with history is that we tend to look at things when we've got a clear view of how things ended. That's why many people see Italy's entrance in WW2 as idiotic military wise. What many fail to appreciate is that at the time Hitler had Europe in the bag and no one would have thought that they would blew it away by invading Russia and fighting a war on two fronts (big no no for Germany as highlighted by Bismarck decades earlier). Italy during both world wars implemented a rather Walder Frey like attitude were they would tag to what they believe to be the winners to garner more land for themselves. This wasn't any different for them.

Returning to us, Mou was able to take us to second place and was heading towards the end of his contract. Giving him an extension to his contract looked like a no brainer. No one could predict that Mou would throw his dummy out and act like a spoiled brat simply because the club wasn't keen to spend 60m on a 29 year CB that they could get on cheap just 6 months later.

 

[Catt]

I don't see much issue with the extension. The club possibly had to pay a bit more. Also, the club got the dreaded second last year and it's difficult to sack someone on the back of that. If it's the case Mourinho wanted Willian, Perisc, Maguire etc then he rightfully was told to snap out of it and work with what he had.

 

[ivaldo]

The problem with history is that we tend to look at things when we've got a clear view of how things ended. That's why many people see Italy's entrance in WW2 as idiotic military wise. What many fail to appreciate is that at the time Hitler had Europe in the bag and no one would have thought that they would blew it away by invading Russia and fighting a war on two fronts (big no no for Germany as highlighted by Bismarck decades earlier). Italy during both world wars implemented a rather Walder Frey like attitude were they would tag to what they believe to be the winners to garner more land for themselves. This wasn't any different for them.

Returning to us, Mou was able to take us to second place and was heading towards the end of his contract. Giving him an extension to his contract looked like a no brainer. No one could predict that Mou would throw his dummy out and act like a spoiled brat simply because the club wasn't keen to spend 60m on a 29 year CB that they could get on cheap just 6 months later.

Tell me more, granddad.

 

[devilish]

Tell me more, granddad.

 

[Ish]

It’s not that Woodward had faith in the squad and club structure, he just simply lost faith in Mourinho and chose not to back him. He’s a business man not a football man - he doesn’t have the football insight to have put together everything you just mentioned in hindsight.

Lucky shot though.

Spot on. Though I'd be cautioned against the bolded bit - every CEO worth his salt would be advised by experts in their field. & I'd assume Woodward would be no different.

 

[Ish]

Tell me more, granddad.

 

[Ban]

Tell me more, granddad.

I remember when my pal Napoleon decided to attack Russia. I said to him, listen brother it may look like a good idea now but in hindsight it could be a bad one.
Similar to Ed situation now.

 

[welshwingwizard]

What I don’t get is why Woodward kept Jose on until December, if you’ve decided against backing your manager in the transfer window & no longer trust his judgment in buying players, You have to them get rid of that manager, how can you expect the working relationship to go forward?

This exactly. We had already seem how Mou reacts when told he can't have playeys as it was exactly what happened in his last Chelsea season. It wasn't pretty.

What I find disconcerting is a non-football man blocking the manager's decision but keeping him on. It undermines the role...how will other managers view that. If it had been a DoF with a long term plan then fine. But a finance guy?

What would have happened if the players Mou wanted had had world class seasons this season and players like Martial regressed further? The decision was pure pot luck and that doesn't strike me as a great way of leading a club.

We need a serious review of how we make football decisions in the club. Part of me is hoping Fergie has just come back to take control.

Whatever way you cut it, the decision to both keep on Mou whilst not investing wrote off this season. I can't believe how this guy is still taking these footballing decisions after so many failures which must have cost his overlords money.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He got everything right IMO.

Maguire is hugely overrated and was coming off a big summer with England, his value was at it's maximum that window.

Tottenham didn't want £35m, they wanted £70m. Who in their right mind would pay that with a year left?. I don't think he's as good as he used to be anyway, all these injuries have slowed him down.

Perisic + Willian are no better than what we have, all we'd be doing is downgrading in age.

 

[Moonwalker]

So, let's bring it all back to last Summer. Mourinho has written off the squad completely. Stating that everyone who played in the WC is knackered and the start of the season is a total right off. There are no youth prospects coming through the ranks who will feature in the first team squad this season. The 6 center backs that we have available (including the two that he bought) cannot tackle a paper bag. World Cup winner, Paul Pogba, is nothing special. Martial doesn't want to be here. Rashford can't hit a barn door with a banjo...Oh, and Sanchez has fallen off the face of the earth? He's locked in some sort of passport/visa/calf injury/thingummy/bullshit.

The Shopping list​

Jose wants to sell 22 year old Martial to Chelsea and do a swap+cash deal with 30 year old Willian. He also wants to sign Harry Maguire for £75m. And 29 year old Ivan Perisic for £50m. Bearing in mind that we already have 3 left sided wingers at the club! He also wants 29 year old Toby Alderweireld for £35m, even though he only had a year left on his contract. He has since extended for 1 year with a release clause of £25m.

Knowing what we now know, did Woodward really help us dodge a rather expensive bullet, last summer? Has his faith in this squad of players and the academy, really shown Mourinho up as a crackpot who was hellbent on filling our squad with short-term fixes who would be finished in 2 years. Not that he would be around then anyway!

Crackpot is the wrong description. It's just that his own interests didn't align with club interests as neatly, and as smoothly as we would wish. He's an incredibly self centered, apres moi le deluge kind of guy, and you can't count on him to work the concept 'long term' into his dealings at any club.

As others have pointed out, this is something we all (or at least the less deluded portion of us) knew well in advance, so yeah - he did get it right, eventually. There was plenty of evidence to foresee this though, and he didn't have to wait for the tantrum to act.

 

[Smores]

I love how the Willian and Martial swap has become fact. We didn't even bid for Maguire and it was Perisic who turned us down the club were pursuing that. They were also pursuing Boateng and Milenkovic so it's not like the club decided no CBs or older players.

We just failed to get rid and failed to bring targets in the rest is spin.

 

[Wheato]

Nowt wrong with signing Alderweireld for £35m.

His release clause is £25m. Or free if you wait until summer.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

His release clause is £25m. Or free if you wait until summer.

His release clause will be 25m come summer. Have to wait another year for him to be free.

 

[lsd]

Woodward gave the "crackpot" a contract extension in January and then kept him on past the summer despite clearly having lost faith in (and publicly undermined) him, thereby all but writing-off the season.

The only thing Ed's got right recently is appointing Ole.

If he had sacked Mourinho in the summer there would have been uproar and we would have been listening to Jose was badly done by forever .

Instead he gave Jose enough rope to hang himself and Jose and his supporters,have no excuses now

 

[Buster15]

I think like most people, he expected a manager to actually manage a team and not throw his toys out of the pram when he didn't get shiny new ones.

Good post.
I guess we don't necessarily know how close Woodward was with Jose but as in all large organisations there is an expectation that individuals should be competent.

As to the question posed; in hindsight he has got the appointment right.
To me, the key thing was bringing Mike Phelan back because it is clear that Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna are now working as a team.

 

[Waynne]

No. He is still rubbish and needs to go.

Spent years and burnt through tons of cash to get us in the current situation these past few weeks where we look or somewhat resemble a United side.

If I had fecked up in my job for even a month I'd be out the door.

 

[steakpie]

If you ask who is more responsible for United's failure in the last 3 seasons, Woodward or Mourinho...In my opinion 99% Mourinho. Woodward gave him plenty of money to spend.

 

[Wheato]

The Ole feel good wave has masked another horrendous window. You can't bring in much in January, maybe we could sort out the contracts of top players that can leave for nothing in the Summer. Maybe we could finally get top players like Dave and Martial to sign up. Ed has given Scott Mc Tomminay and Smalling a new contract this window, wow. Darmian, Young, Valencia, Mata, Herrera, Young, Jones, Periera.... There is a lot of question marks over who is staying. I don't get why people aren't asking more questions?

The Ole's only here to May thing and the next manager might want potential signings is garbage, I doubt whoever is coming in wants Jones or Valencia. We need a clear out of deadwood. Some say we are waiting for a director of football, talk about that for ages now and nothing seems imminent. Ed Woodward have been lucky that United have been performing so well, it is lucky too. Nobody could have forseen Ole doing so well. If we lost the last 3 games, people would be saying we need to buy. Jose and his methods weren't working, his targets may have been ludicrous in hindsight but we need so much more to get back to the top. We had a fecking terrible summer window and didn't have a huge Netspend. There are clearly players not good enough here and coming to the end that shouldve be moved on and there not. I'm delighted of the tremendous job Ole has done but there are huge problems at the club. We have Luke Shaw getting a 5 year contract for less than a 2 month run of form and Martial and De Gea's contracts not sorted.

Mourinho tried to convince people that top players were no good, couldn't be trusted. He was wrong but we need signings, Ed has been leaking stuff to the press since September. This team needs an overdue drastic clearout and I don't think we are near it. People need to think about what we could bring in with players like Valencia, Jones and Darmian ect gone.

The Glazer's and Ed having been mugging the fans off for ages. Shit planning and poor choices have gotten us into a mess. I love what Ole has done, he's brought something back that was missing. Everyone knows the Ole' and Phelan appointment has Fergie all over it, not the reactionary people on the board. They seem to act to clean up one mess after the last mess, need to start putting money and a plan properly in place, DOF, sale players now, bring in someone that can help us get top 4. This window has been a missed opportunity and it comes down to Glazers not having the balls to act now. Feck hindsight about who was wrong, we clearly didn't learn anything because aren't acting now.

Act now? Now is the best time to plan ahead for the future. We shouldn't be making knee-jerk signings while a caretaker manager is in charge. We have done enough of that already, by signing Sanchez and Fred, just because City wanted them.

We need to bring in a director of football, let him and the coaching staff discuss where the gaps are in our squad. From these discussions, we should make plans for bringing in a new right sided full-back. A right winger and an experienced center back. Agree a short-list and work towards this, but also don't rule out what we have within our ranks in Tuanzebe, Fosu Mensah, Roshaun Williams, Mason Greenwood, Angel Gomez, Tahith Chong and Ethan Laird. And as we merge these players into the first team, we should then start phasing out the deadwood on high salaries. This is the sort of sustainability plan that every one can buy into. The aim should to be 2 years down the road to have a perfect blend of academy starlets, some experience, and some genuine world class players to add balance to the squad.

 

[PoTMS]

His release clause is £25m. Or free if you wait until summer.

No, his release clause only activates in June 2019. He would not be free in the summer, his current contract runs out in June 2020.

 

[Mr PG]

What I don’t get is why Woodward kept Jose on until December, if you’ve decided against backing your manager in the transfer window & no longer trust his judgment in buying players, You have to them get rid of that manager, how can you expect the working relationship to go forward?

Pressure from the contract extension he gave him is why. Doesn't look too good to his superior's to give an extra 15m to Mourinho then easily dismiss him.

 

[CM]

He was absolutely right in trying to protect the club's best assets from a lunatic manager, yes. I still think all the stuff about not backing Mourinho is largely unsubstantiated but if it was Woodward who vetoed the shambolic deals for Willian, Perisic, Maguire et al, fair fecks to him. You can say he shouldn't be making footballing decisions but those were the right calls in each instance.

Woodward's biggest mistake (by some distance) was Mourinho's contract renewal last January. I thought he let it linger too long when sacking him as well but I'll give him some credit for not writing the season off entirely - at one point I was convinced he'd wait until top 4 was mathematically impossible.

 

[Wheato]

No, his release clause only activates in June 2019. He would not be free in the summer, his current contract runs out in June 2020.

So in 4 months we can buy him for £25m, then? Some media sources were saying the asking price was £60m, last summer. Jose would have paid it.

 

[RedNed77]

I never understood the idea he should have been sacked after the Sevilla result

Because it was possibly the worst performance any of us have ever seen United put in and in what was a big and very winnable game. Jose then rubbed salt in the wounds afterwards by separating himself from the club and the result with his utterly ridiculous post match comments about how many times he had won things and how shit the clubs record was in Europe. You wouldn't expect an oppo manager with an axe to grind to be so disparaging about the club, let alone our own manager who was responsible for the utter turd of a game that had just transpired.

 

[Ibrahimorich]

What I don’t get is why Woodward kept Jose on until December, if you’ve decided against backing your manager in the transfer window & no longer trust his judgment in buying players, You have to them get rid of that manager, how can you expect the working relationship to go forward?

To give the replacement 5 "easy" games to bed in and assess the squad before the transfer window maybe

 

[Moonwalker]

Guessing he was hoping and praying Mourinho would eventually get the terrible twos tantrums out of his system, Man the feck up, and get on with the squad he had at his disposal without bitching about it every few hours.

Yeah, that's probably it. He thought, naively, that Jose can be counted on to act as if he were an adult and a professional. Perhaps he bought into the whole 'changed his ways' spiel.

Should have known better.

 

[OldPop]

I think the board lost confidence in Mourinho at the end of last season. Sure, we ended up in second place but in terms of points, the distance to the first place was huge.

Probably something happened between him and Ed behind closed doors that we didn't find out. When he then started to talk about the second place in the media as a victory, and his three PL titles, I think it was an attempt to put pressure on the board to get rid of Ed, but he lost that fight. After that, everything tracked out and he kept the most bizarre press conferences.

I guess that the board and Ed from September tried to find out how they would best get rid of him, it's certainly a very difficult issue in the middle of the current season because not only the coach but the entire coaching staff are affected. So my answer is that, yes, Ed and the board did right then.

The mistakes they made earlier with Moyes and LVG. But was it really their mistake, maybe it is more fair to call it bad luck? In retrospect we know that the extension of Morurinho's contract was a big mistake but when it was written it was not as obvious, then there were signs that he might succeed.

It is always easy to be wise afterwards.

 

[Revan]

The only thing he did wrong was to extend Mourinho's contract instead of calling his bluff. And we'll, sack Mourinho a couple of months earlier.

His vetoe on sales of Martial and Pogba, in addition to not spending like lunatics for Perisic, Willian and Maguire were very wonderful decisions.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Woodward is human.

Some of you lot acting like you have a crystal ball

Didn't need a crystal ball to work out we were in for a nightmare season under Mourinho.

You could tell from his first press conference in pre season he was in full on sulk meltdown mode. Should have been sacked in the Summer or at the very latest after the Tottenham game in August.

 

[Morpheus 7]

I wholeheartedly disagree with the bit about making signings! The last thing we need to do is make signings while we are recruiting a DOF and the managers position is uncertain. The new guys need to make that decision or we may be throwing another hundred million or so down the drain.

I hope Ole gets the job! He's already shown how much he can improve players; who's to say Bailly doesn't improve like Lindelof has which will totally change our transfer plans come the summer!

We should be clearing out players that shouldn't be here. A director of football is taking ages and an experience CB is needed now. You don't need to be a genuis to work that one out. Bailly has potential but is still unreliable, he can't be trusted to stay fit for a long period. We need someone of high quality to partner Lindelof now. How long will people give Ed and the Glazers a pass, it's a joke.

 

[Schmiznurf]

If anything he got lucky on a few things, he's still a buffoon.

 

[Castia]

He’s got most things right, I’m just glad he didn’t persist with Mourinho after giving him the new contract.

I also feel he was right to reject Jose’s transfer targets, I really don’t think Perisic or Willian would have added much.

 

[Saffron]

To give the replacement 5 "easy" games to bed in and assess the squad before the transfer window maybe

But what if we had won? It would be pretty hard to sack the manager after he just won the arguably hardest away match of the season against our biggest rivals.

That is exactly what interim managers are for. To take the heat until a replacement is found. Giving an interim manager easy fixtures is normally the last thing you'd want because you only run the risk of making him unsackable if he strings together a few lucky wins. Generally speaking.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I never understood the idea he should have been sacked after the Sevilla result

Because it was exactly the sort of pathetic cowardly tactics that typified what Mourinho's about and is the very obverse to what Manchester United believe we stand for against a side that was struggling in La Liga. Then afterwards, instead of owning up for providing a cowardly shitshow, Mourinho instead shit on the club and claimed it was United's heritage to lose in Europe.

 

[Denis_unwise]

Thank Christ we didn’t sign Perisic and Maguire.

If the board had been willing to back Mourinho we would more than likely have got Bale too. That would have been another near £300 Mill wasted.

 

[Red Devil Rising]

Tell me more, granddad.