DiMarzio: United target Atlético Madrid's sporting director Andrea Berta alongside Mourinho

[Flytan]

We don't need a DOF and its just being used as another gun to point at the club. I can't wait for us to start winning soon not because I'm fed up of the on pitch performances but just so people will stop being ridiculous and battering the club at every opportunity.

What actual information do you think exists that proves we don't need one or at least having one would alleviate pressure on Woodward/Mourinho to not have to negotiate for players. I mean unless I'm crazy I don't see a bad thing occurring as a result. I mean Fergie's gone. No one else should have control.

 

[liamp]

Sammer is Bayern's DOF though and he hasn't been involved with Bayern before. Same goes for Reschke, our technical director (he is responsible for the scouting), whom we poached from Leverkusen.

Exactly. Txiki has no ties to City but he's done a great job for them. Berta has no ties to Atletico. Fabio Paratici, Juve's Sporting Director, was poached from Sampdoria. I don't think hiring outside the confines of the club is much riskier...it's almost a necessity in a situation like United where the manager has historically had all the power.

 

[prath92]

Sammer is Bayern's DOF though and he hasn't been involved with Bayern before. Same goes for Reschke, our technical director (he is responsible for the scouting), whom we poached from Leverkusen.

But your executive chairman and vice chairman are Bayern through and through (rumenige and hopfner?). Not like Woodward who isn't football related. So a DOF at United would be required to do more being the only football related guy I guess (the likes of SAF and Sir Bobby though directors are merely figureheads and unlikely to take part in day to day operations of the club).

 

[Longlivekeano]

Since Mourinho is here, the DoF is not so impt as super agent Jorge Mendes who is very close to Jose. Expect a glut of signings from Jorge Mendes' stable of clients- if realistic and possible (unlike Cristiano). doF role is a technicality I think for United; more to oversee coordination between United's diff teams, vision

 

[Raoul]

Since Mourinho is here, the DoF is not so impt as super agent Jorge Mendes who is very close to Jose. Expect a glut of signings from Jorge Mendes' stable of clients- if realistic and possible (unlike Cristiano). doF role is a technicality I think for United; more to oversee coordination between United's diff teams, vision

Clearly we can't limit our transfers to just Mendes clients, which is why we really do need a DoF.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I can't believe people are opposing the DoF type of structure. We're getting left behind by the continental clubs as it is, and risk being completely out of sight if we don't modernize. The club used to be proud that it's ahead of the times. We no longer are, and need to buck up our ideas.

 

[Dreaded]

I can't believe people are opposing the DoF type of structure. We're getting left behind by the continental clubs as it is, and risk being completely out of sight if we don't modernize. The club used to be proud that it's ahead of the times. We no longer are, and need to buck up our ideas.

I fail to see how a DOF would revolutionise anything.

There are positive and negatives to having a DOF so I cant see how not having one leaves us failing behind.

 

[Raoul]

I fail to see how a DOF would revolutionise anything.

There are positive and negatives to having a DOF so I cant see how not having one leaves us failing behind.

I'd rather have an experienced DoF to handle all things football and transfers, which would free up Woodward to work on sponsorships and other financial matters.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I fail to see how a DOF would revolutionise anything.

There are positive and negatives to having a DOF so I cant see how not having one leaves us failing behind.

You only have to look at how the best run clubs in the world to see how far behind we are in terms of efficiency. A proper structure with power being delegated is clearly shown to be beneficial and the positives far outweigh the minor negatives.

 

[Dreaded]

I'd rather have an experienced DoF to handle all things football and transfers, which would free up Woodward to work on sponsorships and other financial matters.

The club has about 900 members of staff do you really think Woodward doesnt already have people to help him with both the football and sponsorship side.

He may be there to announce, take credit or blame for everything depending on how things go but he will already have teams of people working for him on all sides of the business.

 

[Dreaded]

You only have to look at how the best run clubs in the world to see how far behind we are in terms of efficiency. A proper structure with power being delegated is clearly shown to be beneficial and the positives far outweigh the minor negatives.

If you appoint the right person and they do a good job.

Otherwise i think there are two people to blame when the football isnt going well both blaming each other.

 

[itso 7]

I fail to see how a DOF would revolutionise anything.

There are positive and negatives to having a DOF so I cant see how not having one leaves us failing behind.

There are negatives to virtually anything in life but in this case the positives could outweigh the negatives, imo. I think you'd agree that poor recruitment (of managers and players) has been central to the failures of the last season and that can be attributed to Woodward's inability to analyze on his own the relative merits and demerits of each signing/football decisions made by managers, if we had a DOF in place he could have done the groundwork in some of the cases and established the facts regarding the availability of certain targets or worked to ensure their availability. Then there are certain circumstances where managers come up with outlandish suggestions like signing Willian for £60m or Van Gaal preferring Kraft to Neuer, and they need to be checked.

 

[dogwithabone]

It's horses for courses, suits some set ups but doesn't suit others. Liverpool and Spurs have been down the DoF route and chaos and discontent set in.

Don't think there's anything to say it will suit us. Sounds all foreign and fancy but where will it help Mourinho or player performance ? With all the analysts within a management structure nowadays the manager is largely allowed to manage, I just dont see the benefits.

 

[itso 7]

The club has about 900 members of staff do you really think Woodward doesnt already have people to help him with both the football and sponsorship side.

He may be there to announce, take credit or blame for everything depending on how things go but he will already have teams of people working for him on all sides of the business.

We don't even have a single football person who sits on the executive board. This means that the board, on football matters, hears what Woodward wants them to hear (if he is so inclined). The efficiency and effectiveness of our football operations leaves a lot to be desired and this is why we are miles behind clubs with comparable balance sheets to ours.

 

[Revan]

How would that actually work, keeping Di Maria? Would he have just played in the reserves for the past year, ready to prove himself to a new manager? Would the DoF confront the manager, question the way certain players are used? How can you justify keeping a player the manager doesn't want, unless you don't have confidence in the manager? Doesn't that undermine his position?

Of course it undermines the manager, and that is exactly the point. DoF is there to not allow the manager to make ridiculous decisions. Benching and then selling a player that the manager requires just 10 months before and for whom the club spent 60m pounds (a British record) classifies as a ridiculous decision.

When the manager is just for 2-3 years he shouldn't have the power to do whatever he wants at the club.

And finally, there is no need to deal in the absolutes like you do that unless you don't have confidence on the manager. You might have confidence on the manager, but realize that the club has to go on even after the manager leaves.

 

[Adebesi]

Of course it undermines the manager, and that is exactly the point. DoF is there to not allow the manager to make ridiculous decisions. Benching and then selling a player that the manager requires just 10 months before and for whom the club spent 60m pounds (a British record) classifies as a ridiculous decision.

When the manager is just for 2-3 years he shouldn't have the power to do whatever he wants at the club.

And finally, there is no need to deal in the absolutes like you do that unless you don't have confidence on the manager. You might have confidence on the manager, but realize that the club has to go on even after the manager leaves.

Im still not sure I understand the process by which Di Maria stays, if we have a DoF. He's still not getting played. So what, he does stay in the reserves for a year? How would a situation like that play out?

 

[Revan]

Im still not sure I understand the process by which Di Maria stays, if we have a DoF. He's still not getting played. So what, he does stay in the reserves for a year? How would a situation like that play out?

Of course, he is, or the manager gets sacked. Not necessarily every match, but not frozen out. When you spent 60m pounds on a single player, you have to play him, it is how things run at every club. Club isn't a charity for the manager to experiment things. Sure, you can experiment with cheap punts, but when you go and break the transfer record, you cannot decide after a few months that you don't fancy that player.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

What actual information do you think exists that proves we don't need one or at least having one would alleviate pressure on Woodward/Mourinho to not have to negotiate for players. I mean unless I'm crazy I don't see a bad thing occurring as a result. I mean Fergie's gone. No one else should have control.

Well for one the fact that a DOF is not a guarnetee of success because you can easily get a contrast of interest with a manager and I for one would rather be known as a club that gives the managers power to do their job. It's not outdated, it's not old school, it's tried and tested and if you get the right manager (I.e Mourinho) then it's the best method. People are just so keen to throw Woodward off a bridge that they think a DOF is exactly what we need even tho our transfer dealings haven't been anywhere near as bad as people make out over the last couple of Windows.

 

[ti vu]

Of course, he is, or the manager gets sacked. Not necessarily every match, but not frozen out. When you spent 60m pounds on a single player, you have to play him, it is how things run at every club. Club isn't a charity for the manager to experiment things. Sure, you can experiment with cheap punts, but when you go and break the transfer record, you cannot decide after a few months that you don't fancy that player.

Or just never sign Di Maria in the first place with a good DOF. I meant, DOF role would be more specific in looking at player & our manger style, player & our manager's character compatibility. DOF would have a fairer view on both the player and manager than the manager's own perspective of himself and his judgement of the player. This may also be problem, but as many had said, the positives outweigh negatives on the long run.

Look at Di Maria case specifically as prime example. Di Maria didn't see us as first choice destination. His style is too direct while LVG loves his complicated possession football. Di Maria was known to have mental issue: Mourinho had to call him out to up his game. Only out of his love to remain at Real, Di Maria works his butt off. LVG likes to command and receive obedience, not that LVG is smooth persuader/ motivator.

 

[Revan]

Or just never sign Di Maria in the first place with a good DOF. I meant, DOF role would be more specific in looking at player & our manger style, player & our manager's character compatibility. DOF would have a fairer view on both the player and manager than the manager's own perspective of himself and his judgement of the player. This may also be problem, but as many had said, the positives outweigh negatives on the long run.

Look at Di Maria case specifically as prime example. Di Maria didn't see us as first choice destination. His style is too direct while LVG loves his complicated possession football. Di Maria was known to have mental issue: Mourinho had to call him out to up his game. Only out of his love to remain at Real, Di Maria works his butt off. LVG likes to command and receive obedience, not that LVG is smooth persuader/ motivator.

Yep, Di Maria as a signing for LVG never made sense, so it shouldn't have happened, and under a good DoF it wouldn't have happened. But when you make a signing like that, you have to persist with it, cause you had just spent a lot of money, and money doesn't come free.

An another example is when LVG wanted Kraft instead of Neuer. Bayern said to him 'feck off' instead.

 

[JPRouve]

Well for one the fact that a DOF is not a guarnetee of success because you can easily get a contrast of interest with a manager and I for one would rather be known as a club that gives the managers power to do their job. It's not outdated, it's not old school, it's tried and tested and if you get the right manager (I.e Mourinho) then it's the best method. People are just so keen to throw Woodward off a bridge that they think a DOF is exactly what we need even tho our transfer dealings haven't been anywhere near as bad as people make out over the last couple of Windows.

It has nothing to do with Woodward, it's about replacing SAF's skills.

 

[ottosec]

Telegraph reporting that we decided against a DOF and will continue with our normal set up.

 

[Happytom82]

Fecking leicester and spurs have built the teams they have due to steve walsh and paul mitchell.. not to forget dortmund and atletico. A dof has a long-term goal, while a manager often look shorter into the future for instant glory

 

[Tiber]

The Times is also saying that we decided against a DOF. They mentioned the club decided on adding more scouts instead but Mourinho is going to shape how many we hore (original plan was 30+)

 

[JPRouve]

So Mourinho managed to seduce the board, fair enough.

 

[Raoul]

The club has about 900 members of staff do you really think Woodward doesnt already have people to help him with both the football and sponsorship side.

He may be there to announce, take credit or blame for everything depending on how things go but he will already have teams of people working for him on all sides of the business.

He's not a football guy though, he's basically an ex investment banker who the Glazers liked enough to take over after the Fergie era. I'd rather we appoint a specialist who does nothing but football .

 

[Fortis Mente]

The best way for a DoF to work is to have the Manager select him. Someone who can work with the manager, rather than against him. He should be working for the Manager directing the Clubs' Academy, U18s and U21s to play in the same style and principles as the Manager does with the 1st team. Also doing the negotiations and signings of players that the Manager wants. So in effect he takes over from Woodward in that role but liaises with him on salaries and transfer fees.
Therefore he takes some of the responsibilities off the Manager and gets Woodward away from mucking up the signings.

 

[JPRouve]

The best way for a DoF to work is to have the Manager select him. Someone who can work with the manager, rather than against him. He should be working for the Manager directing the Clubs' Academy, U18s and U21s to play in the same style and principles as the Manager does with the 1st team. Also doing the negotiations and signings of players that the Manager wants. So in effect he takes over from Woodward in that role but liaises with him on salaries and transfer fees.
Therefore he takes some of the responsibilities off the Manager and gets Woodward away from mucking up the signings.

It's the other way around, the DOF needs to select the manager. A DOF works for the club not for the head coach.

 

[Harry190]

A Director of football would have to be a Manchester United man. Don't think there's any of this type right now.

 

[Rado_N]

A Director of football would have to be a Manchester United man. Don't think there's any of this type right now.

Why?

 

[RedRover]

A Director of football would have to be a Manchester United man. Don't think there's any of this type right now.

For me that's the exact opposite of what we would need.

Firstly, we may not need one at all if the manager is being afforded the freedom to identify and to get the players he wants.

If the club goes down that route they need to bring in the best man for the job based on experience and knowledge and with impartiality - not an old boy stuck in the past and banging on about the "united way" or some other vacuous concept.

 

[Raoul]

If you appoint the right person and they do a good job.

Otherwise i think there are two people to blame when the football isnt going well both blaming each other.

Appointing the right person being the operative term.

 

[Harry190]

Why?

The whole point of a Director of football is one who understands the identity of the club, has lived it and been part of it. Bayern Munich being the prime example.

 

[JPRouve]

The whole point of a Director of football is one who understands the identity of the club, has lived it and been part of it. Bayern Munich being the prime example.

Sammer is the prime example of Bayern's identity, the lad from Dortmund?

 

[Kill 'em all]

The idea of a DoF for me is the same as having a chairperson-DoF and a CEO-the manager in a corporation. One limits the powers of the other. I'm not sure Mourinho would be too fond of someone he doesn't know interfering with his work.

 

[Rado_N]

The whole point of a Director of football is one who understands the identity of the club, has lived it and been part of it. Bayern Munich being the prime example.

As already pointed out above though:

Txiki has no ties to City but he's done a great job for them. Berta has no ties to Atletico. Fabio Paratici, Juve's Sporting Director, was poached from Sampdoria.

 

[rotherham_red]

Exactly. Txiki has no ties to City but he's done a great job for them. Berta has no ties to Atletico. Fabio Paratici, Juve's Sporting Director, was poached from Sampdoria. I don't think hiring outside the confines of the club is much riskier...it's almost a necessity in a situation like United where the manager has historically had all the power.

Txiki has been shit for City. Almost 200m will be spent on CBs by the time the season starts and they're still no closer to getting it right. Sterling for 50m, Fernando and so many more...

 

[Harry190]

Sammer is the prime example of Bayern's identity, the lad from Dortmund?

Still German. Still answers to Rummenigge. Understands the culture perfectly.

Don't understand why the 'Manchester United way' is pejorative on this forum all of a sudden. What's up with that?

 

[VII]

To be honest this Berta don't look all that impressive if you compare his signings with Monchi from Sevilla. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

 

[JPRouve]

Still German. Still answers to Rummenigge. Understands the culture perfectly.

Don't understand why the 'Manchester United way' is pejorative on this forum all of a sudden. What's up with that?

There is nothing up, a new DOF can understand the culture and philosophy of United. You don't need to be English, scottish or mancunian to understand United otherwise Mourinho wouldn't be our manager.