Diving in the PL...

[Rozay]

Seems to be at something of an all time high, but the worrying thing for me is the punishment for it seems to be at an all time low. It’s as if we are becoming desensitised to it, and the commentators aren’t even bothered to condemn it anymore - instead opting for a ‘nah, that’s not a penalty’ or in one case today with Harry Kane - simply saying ‘that’s a dive’ and moving on.

Referees have stopped giving yellow cards for diving too, and seem content to simply point out to the offender that they won’t give a penalty because they see it as a dive. I think we need to take a tougher stance towards it in order to get a hold of it.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Seems Redcafe is as unwilling as the English media to acknowledge this issue

At this point there’s barely a club left who can attempt to take the moral high ground, maybe Burnley or someone. I don’t blame refs for having given up on it in fairness

 

[Sylar]

The reward is higher than the risk so it will continue

 

[Berbasbullet]

Seems Redcafe is as unwilling as the English media to acknowledge this issue

At this point there’s barely a club left who can attempt to take the moral high ground, maybe Burnley or someone. I don’t blame refs for having given up on it in fairness

Why Burnley?

 

[MayosNoun]

Harry Kane will always get off with it. He’s English.

The media here puts these guys on a certain level where it is ‘clever’ as opposed to blatant cheating. Kane is the worst for it.

 

[kclord]

The reward is higher than the risk so it will continue

Yep. Until it's either consistently punished in the moment or retroactively then it will continue. I go back and forth on whether it's one more thing to add to VAR's plate, considering how well that's gone in some cases.

 

[kclord]

https://official.nba.com/explanation-of-anti-flopping-rule/

The NBA tried to start fining people starting in 12-13. I've seen it used a couple of times, but consistency has to be the key.

 

[Klopper76]

Salah is one of the worst in the league for it. He'll feel the slightest touch and throw himself over. Mane is the same but Salah's are normally worse.

I watched Gary Neville's Soccerbox last night with Jamie Carragher. They were watching a Liverpool United game from the 2001/02 season. There was a point where Van Nistelrooy went around Dudek and Neville was saying that they would've always told him to go down in that scenario, especially in a big game. Dudek didn't make any contact but was wreckless in trying to win the ball. Van Nistelrooy didn't go down because there wasn't any contact but I found it interesting that he was being instructed to do so in those situations.

I think Klopp, Pep, Mourinho etc all tell their players to go down. They basically encourage diving to gain an advantage. It's something that has been around for ages and will continue to be until there are more serious repercussions.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Hasn't this topic been done to death?
Technically, more than half of the falls in the box are dives. If it happens far away from the box, the player would try to somehow not fall and continue his run. If it happens in the box, the player says thank you very much and falls in a heap.
Having said that, refs don't give anything in the box, unless they see the fall. Thus inspiring people to take the tumble. Even a simple shirt tug or pull back when you are about to make a decisive pass or take the shot is a foul and needs to be penalty. But no ref would give that.

The only yellow cards for dives is given when player falls down in a heap, when not even touched. And that was rare even before the VAR.

So in effect everyone dives, but the way they dive is only different. For example, Salah is super crap in the diving department. He goes starfish for everything. Many players just fall down when tripped. But Salah has this weird body language (both hands raised, both legs flying in air and all) during the fall which makes it look like obvious dive.
Martial occasionally does that kind of dive. Herrera rolls on the floor for every tackle, clutching whatever he gets off his leg. But it looks more natural than what Salah does.

 

[Counterfactual]

I quite like how they call the divers out on the 5-live 606 segment, "the simulation game".

Unsurprisingly, Mo Salah has "won" the last three weeks.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The worst divers in the league are Sterling, Barnes and Salah. They’re totally crap at it. At least learn to dive if you’re going to do it.

 

[Wilt]

Harry Kane will always get off with it. He’s English.

The media here puts these guys on a certain level where it is ‘clever’ as opposed to blatant cheating. Kane is the worst for it.

Or the best at it

 

[Rozay]

Hasn't this topic been done to death?
Technically, more than half of the falls in the box are dives. If it happens far away from the box, the player would try to somehow not fall and continue his run. If it happens in the box, the player says thank you very much and falls in a heap.
Having said that, refs don't give anything in the box, unless they see the fall. Thus inspiring people to take the tumble. Even a simple shirt tug or pull back when you are about to make a decisive pass or take the shot is a foul and needs to be penalty. But no ref would give that.

The only yellow cards for dives is given when player falls down in a heap, when not even touched. And that was rare even before the VAR.

So in effect everyone dives, but the way they dive is only different. For example, Salah is super crap in the diving department. He goes starfish for everything. Many players just fall down when tripped. But Salah has this weird body language (both hands raised, both legs flying in air and all) during the fall which makes it look like obvious dive.
Martial occasionally does that kind of dive. Herrera rolls on the floor for every tackle, clutching whatever he gets off his leg. But it looks more natural than what Salah does.

If Salah is so bad at it why is he at least not getting booked? As opposed to his claim simply being dismissed by the ref ‘because he’s dived!’. That is what is baffling me. Refs have stopped booking players altogether now. There was one by Salah in each of his last two games that I’d categorise as ‘gone down in a heap without being touched’.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If Salah is so bad at it why is he at least not getting booked? As opposed to his claim simply being dismissed by the ref ‘because he’s dived!’. That is what is baffling me. Refs have stopped booking players altogether now. There was one by Salah in each of his last two games that I’d categorise as ‘gone down in a heap without being touched’.

The overall quality of refereeing is low. It is not just the card for simulation, but take almost any area and it is full of incompetence or inconsistency. Teams use tactical fouling as a strategy and never get punished. Some teams use falling down and rolling as a strategy and never get punished.

And refs are so much influenced by media. If media starts singling out certain players as divers, then refs will start carding them. If media says one team is getting all penalties, refs stop giving penalties.

 

[El Zoido]

It would be less of an issue if refs would start calling fouls on players who are impeded, but try to remain on their feet. If you don’t go down, most of the time you don’t get the freekick. So there’s huge incentive to play for it and exaggerate contact. A lot of dives are a result of players going down first because they expect contact after the fact to validate it, such as the Martial one against Southampton.

 

[Rozay]

It would be less of an issue if refs would start calling fouls on players who are impeded, but try to remain on their feet. If you don’t go down, most of the time you don’t get the freekick. So there’s huge incentive to play for it and exaggerate contact. A lot of dives are a result of players going down first because they expect contact after the fact to validate it, such as the Martial one against Southampton.

That sounds like simple cheating to me. How can a player who ‘starts going down because he expects contact’ be justified?