Do fans and pundits think that owners use monopoly money?

[Andycoleno9]

Transfer talks are always big (and fun) part of the game. But lately i noticed how fans, pundits and journos lost a sense for reality (imo). Owners not backing Klopp because they refuse to spend 60 mil on defender (despite spending around 100mil this summer), Ole was "betrayed" and not backed by Ed/Glazers because they refused to spend 120mil on Sancho and 50,60 mil on Upamecano. Some coaches are not backed at all (Jose, Rodgers, Arteta...) because they spent "only" 70,80 mil. Not to mention clubs outside UK where spending was on minimum.

Owners are not fans. They care for profit. Club is their investment and nothing else. Lots of people say that xy owner didn't spend a euro of his own money. Especially all that goes for this post covid era where clubs losing huge amounts of money.

Am i too realistic here or am i missing something? I know whole story about Glazers and yes, they are leechers and we deserve better owners but on the other hand, last few years we are one of few clubs who made big investments and maybe only club who didn't cut wages during lockdown. I like that. I like to see financial stability especially after reading that Barca is near bankrupt and lots of our rivals needed to cut wages and sack employees of the club.

I apologize if this is not thread worthy but as i said, maybe i don't have a clear picture about all this. But when i see pundits who every week are saying that xy club must buy this and that player ( players who would cost 50 -100 mil) then i am thinking; "am i the one who is crazy here"?

 

[roonster09]

It's all relative. When your club is making 700+ million in revenue, fans and media expect investment to improve the team. At least in ManUtd case, fans are asking to spend club money.

 

[Deery]

We lost something like £112m due to covid I wouldn’t be surprised if we spend very little in the next transfer window.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Transfer talks are always big (and fun) part of the game. But lately i noticed how fans, pundits and journos lost a sense for reality (imo). Owners not backing Klopp because they refuse to spend 60 mil on defender (despite spending around 100mil this summer), Ole was "betrayed" and not backed by Ed/Glazers because they refused to spend 120mil on Sancho and 50,60 mil on Upamecano. Some coaches are not backed at all (Jose, Rodgers, Arteta...) because they spent "only" 70,80 mil. Not to mention clubs outside UK where spending was on minimum.

Owners are not fans. They care for profit. Club is their investment and nothing else. Lots of people say that xy owner didn't spend a euro of his own money. Especially all that goes for this post covid era where clubs losing huge amounts of money.

Am i too realistic here or am i missing something? I know whole story about Glazers and yes, they are leechers and we deserve better owners but on the other hand, last few years we are one of few clubs who made big investments and maybe only club who didn't cut wages during lockdown. I like that. I like to see financial stability especially after reading that Barca is near bankrupt and lots of our rivals needed to cut wages and sack employees of the club.

I apologize if this is not thread worthy but as i said, maybe i don't have a clear picture about all this. But when i see pundits who every week are saying that xy club must buy this and that player ( players who would cost 50 -100 mil) then i am thinking; "am i the one who is crazy here"?

And this is exactly when clubs lost the right to expect supporters to be supporters. Football is now a business first and foremost, and a sport a distant distant second. The owners care most about rinsing money out of the customers. The players and agents care most about rinsing money from the club, and like any other business the customers have every right to kick off if they feel short changed.

 

[Rozay]

I found it bizzare last summer, and I’ve said a few times that I felt the summer window was a low for the caf and football commentary in general. Was absolutely ridiculous. We still found about £80m+ in a pandemic yet there was outrage from all quarters, with immature emotional complaining from fans. The health of the clubs is most important, and some are just about paying wages at the moment. The caf threw a massive strop that we didn’t sign Sancho for 120m and Woodward apparently needed immediate replacing with Van Der Saar, and a new DoF needed to come in (presumably he would have brought 120m of his own money with him or something).

 

[Andycoleno9]

I found it bizzare last summer, and I’ve said a few times that I felt the summer window was a low for the caf and football commentary in general. Was absolutely ridiculous. We still found about £80m+ in a pandemic yet there was outrage from all quarters, with immature emotional complaining from fans. The health of the clubs is most important, and some are just about paying wages at the moment. The caf threw a massive strop that we didn’t sign Sancho for 120m and Woodward apparently needed immediate replacing with Van Der Saar, and a new DoF needed to come in (presumably he would have brought 120m of his own money with him or something).

Yes, that with Sancho is something which annoyed me the most. Not just fans. Gary Neville who is former football player and who is now businessman (so someone who knows value of money and market in general) casually repeated whole summer; "Why Glazers refuse to pay 120+ mil for Sancho? It is pathetic. They betrayed Ole".
It is bloody 120 mil plus other fees in this covid era and he was talking about it like it is peanuts. Not just him. All pundits are talking about transfers like it is virtual money in football manager or fantasy football.

Also, i know it is never good move to praise someone who is hated but Ed (who was pretty bad in transfer market for years) did excellent job this summer. He found free striker, bought midfielder for good value (we always can sell Donny for similiar price) and bought Telles for really small fee. Time will tell is Diallo bargain or waste of money.
And he didn't allowed to be bullied by Dortmund.
Anyway, before people jump on me; Ed is bad but this year he had good summer

 

[Zen86]

I'd rather our transfer policy in recent years than Barcelonas.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I'd rather our transfer policy in recent years than Barcelonas.

Barca, Leeds and Chelsea in the past or many Italian clubs (Milan, Parma, Lazio, Roma) are great examples what happens when owners don't pay attention on spending. When owners behave like fans.
I will rather be angry why we are not first than reading will my club go bankrupt or not

 

[Stacks]

It's all relative. When your club is making 700+ million in revenue, fans and media expect investment to improve the team. At least in ManUtd case, fans are asking to spend club money.

United have never generated £700 revenue. Also what % of revs should be spent on transfers? A large portion is gone on wages and we pay off debts too.

I found it bizzare last summer, and I’ve said a few times that I felt the summer window was a low for the caf and football commentary in general. Was absolutely ridiculous. We still found about £80m+ in a pandemic yet there was outrage from all quarters, with immature emotional complaining from fans. The health of the clubs is most important, and some are just about paying wages at the moment. The caf threw a massive strop that we didn’t sign Sancho for 120m and Woodward apparently needed immediate replacing with Van Der Saar, and a new DoF needed to come in (presumably he would have brought 120m of his own money with him or something).

agreed. Was the definition of spoilt fanbase. I hate that term but no one was fussed that other clubs barely spent on massive transfer fees (clearly a signal) and believed United should of had a 200M window to "close the gap" as if we aren't affected the same as everyone else. We also boosted our squad and all my friends who support rivals (including Liverpool) said we have one of the better stocked squads in the league as a result. We can bring guys like MArtial/Cavani, Van der Beek, Pogba/Bruno, off the bench in some games. Sometimes even Rashford. The commentator said during Pool game that no one has rotated more than Ole in the league and you can see how well we are doing injury wise.

 

[roonster09]

United have never generated £700 revenue. Also what % of revs should be spent on transfers? A large portion is gone on wages and we pay off debts too.

Healthy percentage should be invested in the squad like any club which generates lot of money.

Yeah we never generated 700 million, we did around 600 million. We spend around 300 million on wages, which is among the best in the league when it comes to wages/total revenue ratio.

Now it's different though, Covid means all clubs should be very careful with any investment.

 

[Ali Dia]

People were just freaking out because we barely scraped 3rd and it was still really hard to see where we could improve without splashing it or else being really clever or lucky. We’ve been courting sancho for years and he was finally for sale and we sat on our hands and offered less than the asking well into the summer when he wasn’t for sale anymore. We’ve already messed up and dithered far too often in the market over the years. I’m glad they got it right this time in hindsight (with covid majorly forcing their hand) while I understand it’s good for the club I really don’t get fans getting all smug because we didn’t pay 100 million for Sancho and now he’s not having a great season. We absolutely would have paid up if it wasn’t for covid. Young lad probably had his bags packed for the last 2 summers and we left him in the lurch and didn’t fully follow through. I’m sure his heart isn’t in it in Germany anymore affer all that. Cavani while still being a good player was a total last minute gamble that’s come off. All these points still stand just because we got a bit of luck this year and the team has gelled doesn’t mean that everything has been fixed behind the scenes. I’d argue the only thing that’s been fixed is Ole is able to work around the glazers, Ed and the club better than any other manager we’ve had since Fergie. The Fergie and Jim Lawlor style recruitment (probably Rice next) is coming back and it’s making a big difference. Oles man management is making the really big difference despite the dithering from above and I would wager Fergie is somewhere in the background advising.

 

[acnumber9]

I found it bizzare last summer, and I’ve said a few times that I felt the summer window was a low for the caf and football commentary in general. Was absolutely ridiculous. We still found about £80m+ in a pandemic yet there was outrage from all quarters, with immature emotional complaining from fans. The health of the clubs is most important, and some are just about paying wages at the moment. The caf threw a massive strop that we didn’t sign Sancho for 120m and Woodward apparently needed immediate replacing with Van Der Saar, and a new DoF needed to come in (presumably he would have brought 120m of his own money with him or something).

The complaints are less about not spending huge sums but about spending all summer chasing a player they knew they couldn’t afford. There was plenty of legitimacy in complaining about that.

 

[OleBoiii]

We've always been careful with spending relative to the club's wealth. Probably to a much higher degree than our rivals. This is fine when you got the best manager in history. But if you expect to win big trophies regularly without someone like Fergie in charge, then you can't be greedy. Not in 2021.

Look at the teams in the last 10 or so years that have won big trophies fairly consistently: Real, Barca, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, City and us(under Fergie). With the exception of us under Fergie, all of these teams have 1 or 2 things in common. They:

1. Spend a lot of money
and/or
2. Are in a unique position in their league

We are not in a unique position, so it's no point looking at our rivals outside of England. Basically: if we don't spend a lot, then we can only pray that the next Fergie magically ends up coaching us. That's just the reality. The good old days are over. Football has become capitalism at its most ruthless and it's all about the short term. Seeing as we have the means to compete, it would be silly to not go for it(not necessarily Sancho, though).

And before you bring up Klopp: he's the best manager in the game(post Fergie obviously) and it still took him 3.5(?) years of grinding and spending a pretty considerable amount before succeeding. And he might already have to start a rebuild.

 

[Rozay]

Yes, that with Sancho is something which annoyed me the most. Not just fans. Gary Neville who is former football player and who is now businessman (so someone who knows value of money and market in general) casually repeated whole summer; "Why Glazers refuse to pay 120+ mil for Sancho? It is pathetic. They betrayed Ole".
It is bloody 120 mil plus other fees in this covid era and he was talking about it like it is peanuts. Not just him. All pundits are talking about transfers like it is virtual money in football manager or fantasy football.

Also, i know it is never good move to praise someone who is hated but Ed (who was pretty bad in transfer market for years) did excellent job this summer. He found free striker, bought midfielder for good value (we always can sell Donny for similiar price) and bought Telles for really small fee. Time will tell is Diallo bargain or waste of money.
And he didn't allowed to be bullied by Dortmund.
Anyway, before people jump on me; Ed is bad but this year he had good summer

Yea, I didn’t want to mention Gary Neville as some people seem to think I always mention him due to some sort of agenda - but he was one that immediately came to mind. I remember his typically exaggerated and dramatic commentary during the Palace game on the subject. How the recruitment was ‘Bad!’ and the rest of it.

We did good business under the circumstances. And people who follow the game have an unhealthy obsession with transfers in general tbh. We’ve added a bit more squad depth, but we are essentially top of the league with the same XI that ended last season. Most fans would, of course, preferred the summer Chelsea had.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

The whole "Jadon Sancho" thing is outrageous to me. He is worth 40-50 at most, even after including the British tax. We would be fools to let Dortmund take us to cleaners.

That is if we ignore the glaring problems in defense and need for a striker first.

 

[Rozay]

The complaints are less about not spending huge sums but about spending all summer chasing a player they knew they couldn’t afford. There was plenty of legitimacy in complaining about that.

Well that isn’t what happened though. Firstly, who knows the extent of the ‘chasing’ we did all summer. And why is it anyone’s business that we pursued our primary target up until the end of the window if that is indeed what happened? Is that a reason to ‘complain’? We knew we couldn’t afford 120m, so we spent the summer trying to agree a lesser deal, which is common sense. If we do, then great, if we don’t, then we don’t sign the player. But we have up until the end of the window to try, that’s why there is a deadline.

We have pursued players we want across a transfer window many times before, and we will again, just as every other club will, because they have the entirety of the window to work with. In real life, clubs are not bound by the silly fan demand that ‘all business is done by the time the window opens’ due to nothing more than their excitement and impatience.

And the complaints were just about any and everything. The complaints were that we didn’t buy Sancho. The complaints were that we tried too hard to buy Sancho. The complaints were that we signed Cavani in the first place. The complaints were that we didn’t sign Cavani at a date of the fans choosing. The complaints were that we didn’t sign a centre half. Fans and commentators lost all common sense and touch with reality, and as a result, lashed out and started taking it out on the club.

It seems some fans care more about transfers than actual football. They forget that transfer dealings are supposed to be with a view to on-field success, and often see it as the other way round. Last season, many fans kept talking about Champions League qualification from the perspective of ‘so we can get Sancho’ or ‘no way will Sancho join if we aren’t in the Champions League’. I’ve heard fans saying we need to first win the league so that we can (achieve our main objective) of signing Haaland. When people focus on the football they will see we aren’t even do that badly on the pitch.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Transfer talks are always big (and fun) part of the game. But lately i noticed how fans, pundits and journos lost a sense for reality (imo). Owners not backing Klopp because they refuse to spend 60 mil on defender (despite spending around 100mil this summer), Ole was "betrayed" and not backed by Ed/Glazers because they refused to spend 120mil on Sancho and 50,60 mil on Upamecano. Some coaches are not backed at all (Jose, Rodgers, Arteta...) because they spent "only" 70,80 mil. Not to mention clubs outside UK where spending was on minimum.

Owners are not fans. They care for profit. Club is their investment and nothing else. Lots of people say that xy owner didn't spend a euro of his own money. Especially all that goes for this post covid era where clubs losing huge amounts of money.

Am i too realistic here or am i missing something? I know whole story about Glazers and yes, they are leechers and we deserve better owners but on the other hand, last few years we are one of few clubs who made big investments and maybe only club who didn't cut wages during lockdown. I like that. I like to see financial stability especially after reading that Barca is near bankrupt and lots of our rivals needed to cut wages and sack employees of the club.

I apologize if this is not thread worthy but as i said, maybe i don't have a clear picture about all this. But when i see pundits who every week are saying that xy club must buy this and that player ( players who would cost 50 -100 mil) then i am thinking; "am i the one who is crazy here"?

You’re 100% right but maybe not so much at United because of our revenue but at some other clubs. Noticeably at some of the bigger Championship clubs.
Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday. Three huge clubs who’ve been out the top flight for a combined total of about thirty years but they have fans who seem to be constantly angry with their owners.
Pretty much all of their owners have lost money running the club and had to curtail spending because of ffp and failure to win promotion.
I don’t know what planet some of them are living on. There’s a lot of football fans who seem to just assume all rich men who buy their clubs are going to be like city’s owners. Failing to realise them and Chelsea are a complete anomaly in this country.

Some of these owners have bought the club because they are fans of it and stopped it going out of business yet the fans will savage them the minute there’s a lack of spending. They don’t seem to understand how finance works or that some of these owners and clubs they’re envious of have losses of over a billion.

 

[Stacks]

Healthy percentage should be invested in the squad like any club which generates lot of money.

Yeah we never generated 700 million, we did around 600 million. We spend around 300 million on wages, which is among the best in the league when it comes to wages/total revenue ratio.

Now it's different though, Covid means all clubs should be very careful with any investment.

Yeah. according to Statista our highest was approx 800 million dollars or £584 million (basically £600million). Its usually between £490-584 million according to Statista. £300 million looks about right. 53% of wages to turnover according to the Sun. Everton is 85%!!!!!!

anyways I agree with you RE the COVID thing. Fans sometimes think we have more excess cash than we actually do. With player sales we could push to £200+ m

 

[youmeletsfly]

Buying a big club requires a shit ton of money.
There are maybe 100 people in the world who can afford it as a toy.
The rest of them need investment funds, share holders etc. These people see it more as a business I think. They want to make money.
The Glazers are kinda like that, but on the other hand they did invest in the last 10 years.

Arguments like "they didn't splash 120 mil on sancho to back Ole" are pretty dumb. It's very easy to say that from the outside.
We could be Barcelona and spending 40-50 mil on random unknowns each year..

 

[Counterfactual]

It makes a big difference when you can flog Coutinho for approx £140m to Barcelona after buying him for £11m, then invest that cash in the squad on the likes of Van Dijk (£76m), Salah (£38m) and Alisson (£56m). When did we last sell anyone for a big profit? Maybe we don't want to be a selling club, but a £100m windfall once in a while would be pretty useful.

The Glazers are kinda like that, but on the other hand they did invest in the last 10 years.

The Glazers allowed the club to spend some of its own money... they never invest their own cash, they only take out... dividends, loan interest etc.

 

[youmeletsfly]

It makes a big difference when you can flog Coutinho for approx £140m to Barcelona after buying him for £11m, then invest that cash in the squad on the likes of Van Dijk (£76m), Salah (£38m) and Alisson (£56m). When did we last sell anyone for a big profit? Maybe we don't want to be a selling club, but a £100m windfall once in a while would be pretty useful.



The Glazers allowed the club to spend some of its own money... they never invest their own cash, they only take out... dividends, loan interest etc.

The club's money are their money. They could have gotten it all out.
Spending a club's money is investing, we're not an oil or sugar daddy club.

 

[acnumber9]

Well that isn’t what happened though. Firstly, who knows the extent of the ‘chasing’ we did all summer. And why is it anyone’s business that we pursued our primary target up until the end of the window if that is indeed what happened? Is that a reason to ‘complain’? We knew we couldn’t afford 120m, so we spent the summer trying to agree a lesser deal, which is common sense. If we do, then great, if we don’t, then we don’t sign the player. But we have up until the end of the window to try, that’s why there is a deadline.

We have pursued players we want across a transfer window many times before, and we will again, just as every other club will, because they have the entirety of the window to work with. In real life, clubs are not bound by the silly fan demand that ‘all business is done by the time the window opens’ due to nothing more than their excitement and impatience.

And the complaints were just about any and everything. The complaints were that we didn’t buy Sancho. The complaints were that we tried too hard to buy Sancho. The complaints were that we signed Cavani in the first place. The complaints were that we didn’t sign Cavani at a date of the fans choosing. The complaints were that we didn’t sign a centre half. Fans and commentators lost all common sense and touch with reality, and as a result, lashed out and started taking it out on the club.

It seems some fans care more about transfers than actual football. They forget that transfer dealings are supposed to be with a view to on-field success, and often see it as the other way round. Last season, many fans kept talking about Champions League qualification from the perspective of ‘so we can get Sancho’ or ‘no way will Sancho join if we aren’t in the Champions League’. I’ve heard fans saying we need to first win the league so that we can (achieve our main objective) of signing Haaland. When people focus on the football they will see we aren’t even do that badly on the pitch.

We know we wasted a lot of time because then we started scrambling around in the last couple of days trying to sign other right wingers for our first team and failed. Then we signed a striker that had been available all summer leading to him missing the start of the season and having to quarantine while we were playing matches. If fans can’t complain about that, what can they complain about? Why do you complain about player performances? It’s none of your business after all.

Why is anything to do with a football clubs activities anyone’s business? Weird question to ask. Ultimately, United won’t really give a feck whether fans are bothered or not unless it affects their bottom line. It’s not really our business to stick up for their decisions but yet here you are doing it.

 

[MC89]

It’s the same up here with our fans, I would honestly say Celtic is the best run club and have the best chief executive , Mr Peter Lawwell in Britain, we made 100 grand profit during coronavirus but to the majority thats not enough, they just want to moan and protest against a man who’s done absolutely everything for us.

 

[DevilsOwn]

Don't know about other clubs, but our Club owners' only use the Club money....

... to line up their pockets.

 

[Stacks]

Well that isn’t what happened though. Firstly, who knows the extent of the ‘chasing’ we did all summer. And why is it anyone’s business that we pursued our primary target up until the end of the window if that is indeed what happened? Is that a reason to ‘complain’? We knew we couldn’t afford 120m, so we spent the summer trying to agree a lesser deal, which is common sense. If we do, then great, if we don’t, then we don’t sign the player. But we have up until the end of the window to try, that’s why there is a deadline.

We have pursued players we want across a transfer window many times before, and we will again, just as every other club will, because they have the entirety of the window to work with. In real life, clubs are not bound by the silly fan demand that ‘all business is done by the time the window opens’ due to nothing more than their excitement and impatience.

And the complaints were just about any and everything. The complaints were that we didn’t buy Sancho. The complaints were that we tried too hard to buy Sancho. The complaints were that we signed Cavani in the first place. The complaints were that we didn’t sign Cavani at a date of the fans choosing. The complaints were that we didn’t sign a centre half. Fans and commentators lost all common sense and touch with reality, and as a result, lashed out and started taking it out on the club.

It seems some fans care more about transfers than actual football. They forget that transfer dealings are supposed to be with a view to on-field success, and often see it as the other way round. Last season, many fans kept talking about Champions League qualification from the perspective of ‘so we can get Sancho’ or ‘no way will Sancho join if we aren’t in the Champions League’. I’ve heard fans saying we need to first win the league so that we can (achieve our main objective) of signing Haaland. When people focus on the football they will see we aren’t even do that badly on the pitch.

preach!

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Are you telling me that the typical PL owner doesn’t have this exact energy?