Documentary - The United Way

acnumber9

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I kind of agree with you, I love Cantona, I love United and appreciate what he did for United in the 90’s but this documentary he’s almost turning into a parody of himself with his whispering and saying United needed him. It was basically a documentary about Cantona with a bit about the busby babes at the beginning. Missed out decades inbetween.

I enjoyed it, I liked how they did it and it’s great for my kid who is eleven to watch and see some kind of United history but I did laugh a few times through it at Cantona being over the top Cantona.
There will be plenty for people to enjoy in it no doubt and you can’t really have an all encompassing documentary about United’s history in that runtime, but I expected something different. You’ll only really ‘learn’ a lot about one player. As an example, if your kid didn’t know anything about Bryan Robson all he would’ve learned was we signed him and he liked drinking pints.
 

Zlatan 7

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There will be plenty for people to enjoy in it no doubt and you can’t really have an all encompassing documentary about United’s history in that runtime, but I expected something different. You’ll only really ‘learn’ a lot about one player. As an example, if your kid didn’t know anything about Bryan Robson all he would’ve learned was we signed him and he liked drinking pints.
:lol: That’s true.
 

fjred

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He tried to sue Willie Morgan, lied in court and thought it was all a joke, until Morgans Barrister mentioned payment for damages! Sadly, though Docherty was a very good manager he wasnt a very good person and was distrusted by most of those who knew him inside football.
Jock Stein called him a "Glasgow corner boy" i.e. Del Boy. He had no time for him.
 

redmanx

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Jock Stein called him a "Glasgow corner boy" i.e. Del Boy. He had no time for him.
Sir Matt Busby never liked him either but realised Docherty was just what United needed in 1974. Docherty blamed Busby for getting him sacked but Busby simply wanted to protect the club from any further scandal involving Docherty. I saw an interview with Pat Crerand some years ago and when Docherty was mentioned Crerand laughed and said something like "dont get me started on that man!" and then refused to say more. Denis Law always refuses to discuss Docherty but his face always reveals what he thinks about him, and then he'll say something like "next question!" On one occassion he nearly said "feck him" but caught himself just in time lol! It was the same at Chelsea according to an old mate of mine who has supported Chelsea all his life; Docherty was a good manager but deeply unpopular and divisive.
 

mark_a

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Without wanting to spoil it, it takes United up to The Treble but no further. I enjoyed it, theres little that most United supporters wont have seen before but some great stuff from Eric Cantona, stuff hes probably never said before, at least I havent heard it! It starts with Sir Matt but, as with so many documentaries about United, the great Jimmy Murphy is hardly mentioned, not even during Munich when he single handedly "kept the flag flying" as Busby asked him too. Jimmy Murphy was vital to Uniteds success both before and after Munich but, to the lasting shame of the Club and certain leading figures within, both living and dead, until recently he and his part in our history have been largely ignored. Jimmy Murphy deserves to be remembered alongside Sir Matt Busby, not as a foot note to his success.
To be fair, they could easily include new info in these documentaries. As you say, something about Murphy would be good. Though he didn't single headedly keep the flag flying during Munich, both Joe Armstrong (the chief scout) and Les Olive stepped up, as did the other surviving members of staff. Joe was my Grandfather and our family know his importance to the club in signing the players that Murphy and Whalley coached, but it's just not officially recognised (I'm working on that!). I passed a personal letter from Jimmy to Joe from April 1958 to Wayne Barton for his book about Jimmy. It's a personal letter, Matt, Jimmy and Joe were close. Jimmy referred to them as the "Three Muskateers".

"My Dear Joe, Do hope all is well with your good self and Sally. I wish to sincerely thank you Joe for all the grand work you have done for me. I really mean this, without you around I could not have carried on. As you know there are a hundred problems to sort out every day and you know the answer to most of them. Have Enclosed 2 15/~ tickets which no doubt you will be able to use.

I know it's hard Joe with things as they are at O.T, but do try and relax & don't worry about things. We have all had a very trying time, only a few of us will ever understand that.

Thanks again Joe
"Always your best friend"

Jimmy"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/incredible-letter-emerges-manchester-united-12555474

So if Jimmy has been virtually ignored, Armstrong has been completely ignored. You can't argue with his record of discoveries/signings: Byrne, Charlton, Viollet, Stiles, Kidd etc... He was also the one that talked George Best into returning to Manchester.
 

McGrathsipan

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Sir Matt Busby never liked him either but realised Docherty was just what United needed in 1974. Docherty blamed Busby for getting him sacked but Busby simply wanted to protect the club from any further scandal involving Docherty. I saw an interview with Pat Crerand some years ago and when Docherty was mentioned Crerand laughed and said something like "dont get me started on that man!" and then refused to say more. Denis Law always refuses to discuss Docherty but his face always reveals what he thinks about him, and then he'll say something like "next question!" On one occassion he nearly said "feck him" but caught himself just in time lol! It was the same at Chelsea according to an old mate of mine who has supported Chelsea all his life; Docherty was a good manager but deeply unpopular and divisive.
Still very bitter too it would appear.

I've not watched all of the doc but enjoying it so far. Cantona is hilarious.

Loved that the he said he should have kicked the man harder at Palace.
 

redmanx

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To be fair, they could easily include new info in these documentaries. As you say, something about Murphy would be good. Though he didn't single headedly keep the flag flying during Munich, both Joe Armstrong (the chief scout) and Les Olive stepped up, as did the other surviving members of staff. Joe was my Grandfather and our family know his importance to the club in signing the players that Murphy and Whalley coached, but it's just not officially recognised (I'm working on that!). I passed a personal letter from Jimmy to Joe from April 1958 to Wayne Barton for his book about Jimmy. It's a personal letter, Matt, Jimmy and Joe were close. Jimmy referred to them as the "Three Muskateers".

"My Dear Joe, Do hope all is well with your good self and Sally. I wish to sincerely thank you Joe for all the grand work you have done for me. I really mean this, without you around I could not have carried on. As you know there are a hundred problems to sort out every day and you know the answer to most of them. Have Enclosed 2 15/~ tickets which no doubt you will be able to use.

I know it's hard Joe with things as they are at O.T, but do try and relax & don't worry about things. We have all had a very trying time, only a few of us will ever understand that.

Thanks again Joe
"Always your best friend"

Jimmy"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/incredible-letter-emerges-manchester-united-12555474

So if Jimmy has been virtually ignored, Armstrong has been completely ignored. You can't argue with his record of discoveries/signings: Byrne, Charlton, Viollet, Stiles, Kidd etc... He was also the one that talked George Best into returning to Manchester.
Harry Gregg talks about the way your grandfather, Bert Whalley and Les Olive were all vital in keeping Manchester United going after Munich and Gregg is scathing about how their work was never really recognised by the club until it was too late. He talks about how, when Jimmy Murphy was scouting for Docherty he wasnt given a car and had to travel by public transport. Even Sir Matt doesnt escape Greggs anger, though he doesnt mention him by name but instead says "there are those at the club, and some who are still there, who should have known better." Gregg also tells this in an interview he did just after or before the 50th anniversary of Munich; it might have been during a documentary re Munich, I cant remember. Post Munich times at Old Trafford must have been incredibly hard to deal with and these great, Armstrong, Jimmy Murphy and Les Olive must never be forgotten.
 

mark_a

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Harry Gregg talks about the way your grandfather, Bert Whalley and Les Olive were all vital in keeping Manchester United going after Munich and Gregg is scathing about how their work was never really recognised by the club until it was too late. He talks about how, when Jimmy Murphy was scouting for Docherty he wasnt given a car and had to travel by public transport. Even Sir Matt doesnt escape Greggs anger, though he doesnt mention him by name but instead says "there are those at the club, and some who are still there, who should have known better." Gregg also tells this in an interview he did just after or before the 50th anniversary of Munich; it might have been during a documentary re Munich, I cant remember. Post Munich times at Old Trafford must have been incredibly hard to deal with and these great, Armstrong, Jimmy Murphy and Les Olive must never be forgotten.
It's been interesting (& disappointing) to watch and understand how history is written. Sandy Busby was outspoken about that TV drama about Munich back in 2011, stating that it left important characters out. Yes that's only a drama, but if that's the story being told, that's what people take in. It dawned on me in 2010 that the responsibility for trying to get some kind of official recognition for Joe's work lies with me, whatever form that takes. And I don't mean a verbal one, I've talked to everyone from Sir Alex to Michael Parkinson through Wilf McGuinness and Carlo Sartori and they all know, but what I'm after is something a bit more than one mention in the museum but less than a statue! For current and future generations. It's a great story - he was scouting for City when he met a young Busby. After the war Busby poached him for United, along with Murphy a great bit of recruitment: he was a Mancunian, had a football network of his own, the gift of the gab and had a day job at the GPO in Manchester. The skills of which he used to bring to the set up started by Louis Rocca. He taught Kath how to use a telephone exchange! And aside from his discoveries, he was usually the face of the club, meeting new recruits at the station and speaking to parents. Getting George Best a job as an errand boy as his Mum wasn't confident he'd make it, that sort of thing. Having people stay at his house in Stockport, starting with Matt Busby when he first arrived in Manchester. A definite element of us being considered "a family club".

In his own words:

 
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redmanx

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It's been interesting (& disappointing) to watch and understand how history is written. Sandy Busby was outspoken about that TV drama about Munich back in 2011, stating that it left important characters out. Yes that's only a drama, but if that's the story being told, that's what people take in. It dawned on me in 2010 that the responsibility for trying to get some kind of official recognition for Joe's work lies with me, whatever form that takes. And I don't mean a verbal one, I've talked to everyone from Sir Alex to Michael Parkinson through Wilf McGuinness and Carlo Sartori and they all know, but what I'm after is something a bit more than one mention in the museum but less than a statue! For current and future generations. It's a great story - he was scouting for City when he met a young Busby. After the war Busby poached him for United, along with Murphy a great bit of recruitment: he was a Mancunian, had a football network of his own, the gift of the gab and had a day job at the GPO in Manchester. The skills of which he used to bring to the set up started by Louis Rocca. He taught Kath how to use a telephone exchange! And aside from his discoveries, he was usually the face of the club, meeting new recruits at the station and speaking to parents. Getting George Best a job as an errand boy as his Mum wasn't confident he'd make it, that sort of thing. Having people stay at his house in Stockport, starting with Matt Busby when he first arrived in Manchester. A definite element of us being considered "a family club".

In his own words:
Is that the Munich film with David Tennant as Jimmy Murphy? I remember Sandy Busby saying that his father never wore a camel hair coat or a hat like the actor playing Sir Matt wore. I didnt like the way Busby was portrayed eithe, he seemed more like a gangster than a football manager! There were several errors and ommissions in the film, Mark Jones was "the captain" and Roger Byrne wasnt even mentioned. Jimmy Murphy was shown crying at the hospital, but Murphy and others, including Harry Gregg say he didnt cry till the coffins arrived at OT and then it really hit him and he cried for an hour.
I envy your rich history and relationships with men like Murphy, your grandfather, Sir Alex, Wilf McGuiness, Michael Parkinson and the others you came to know, I hope your children treasure the memories you have, as Im sure they do.
 

nickyboy1981

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Enjoyed the doc. Shows how much things have changed when you see Cantona coming out of his semi after the kung-fu kick.. unless im missing something. Seagul speach hilarious as ever! :)

Ready for the match now.
 

Jinn

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I'm in South Africa. Anybody know where I can buy this DVD?