One reason Sir Alex was such a good manager was his ruthlessness. Whether it was Jaap Stam, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Roy Keane, Wayne Rooney or David Beckham, Sir Alex took no prisoners no matter how much of a star they were. But will this type of man management works in today football ? Given that we have quite a few prima Donna, I would love to see how Sir Alex would deal with them if he is still the manager of United.
Does Sir Alex's ruthless man management style still works in today football ?
- Thread starter Swordsman
- Start date
Yes, SAF didn't have same style for all players, he didn't treat Rooney and Nani in same way, just like how he didn't treat Ronaldo same way like others.
Yeh he’d be fine. The great man didn’t have just one style of man management, he would cater his style depending on the player. Case in point he wouldn’t shout at Nani in the same way he would Rooney, because he knew that it would only knock Nani down. He was a genius when it comes to man management and motivation, he could succeed in management in any era or any profession I reckon, hell if he told me to go to war I probably would.
Yep, is Pep not ruthless?
You have to have the respect to back it up though hence why it doesn't really work for the likes of Mourinho
You have to have the respect to back it up though hence why it doesn't really work for the likes of Mourinho
I'm under the impression having worked with young people (16-23) a lot in the couple of years, that younger generations take less well to the hairdryer treatment than us that grew up to be teenagers in the 90's. I think you can be ruthless but need to be seen as very fair and balanced in your decision making. An iron hand in a velvet glove would be needed.
It worked and it will work when you sign players of that mould, I mentioned this in another thread today that the players SAF bought were not just good players who performed on the pitch, he made sure he understood their personalities and characters and knew if they were capable of responding under pressure or when the chips are down. Unlike today when we have no idea that Sancho is going to take longer than 6 months to recover from a missed penalty, or that Martial will down tools when he has competition for a spot. SAF's style worked because he knew exactly what he was working with because he understood them as people and characters before buying them.
I mean, I’m fairly certain that the torrent of racial abuse had a significantly larger impact than just missing a penalty.
When you look at our squad today and the issues we have, I think it’s safer to infer that not having Sir Alex’s ruthless man management style in football today doesn’t work.
You mention those players he was ruthless towards, but he also went out of his way to be accommodating towards players like Cantona and Ronaldo at times. He was very adept at treating different players in different ways to serve the team.
As for younger generations, they might (rightly imo) be less receptive to someone screaming at them as a primary motivational tool but SAF had already mellowed his approach a lot by the time he left, recognising that even the generation of players in his final team were different to the ones that had gone before.
As with the tactical side of the game (where he would also have to have evolved to keep up with current sides) the fact that he was such an adaptable manager makes it hard to say he wouldn't have adapted to the personalities in front of him. Managers like Pep and Klopp are able to keep discipline and motivation right with their younger players without seeming to overly cater to them.
As for younger generations, they might (rightly imo) be less receptive to someone screaming at them as a primary motivational tool but SAF had already mellowed his approach a lot by the time he left, recognising that even the generation of players in his final team were different to the ones that had gone before.
As with the tactical side of the game (where he would also have to have evolved to keep up with current sides) the fact that he was such an adaptable manager makes it hard to say he wouldn't have adapted to the personalities in front of him. Managers like Pep and Klopp are able to keep discipline and motivation right with their younger players without seeming to overly cater to them.
No, because there are no such players like the ones back then. Nowadays the stuff Sir Alex made and said to the players which made them fight if you say those things to today's players will make them cry.
Yes of course it does. Tactics may have evolved in football over the last decade, but the fundamentals of managing a football club and a squad of players are the same
As several posters have mentioned SAF wasn't ruthless, at least not in terms of man-management. He was sensible and understood that two people aren't the same, you won't get what you want from two different people by handling them with a single method. SAF was only really ruthless in terms of team building and refreshing where he would jettison any player he had no use for anymore even when these players served him brilliantly in the past, recent or not.
Yes agree. This is how we should be run now, not try to buy the dearest players out there because they must be the best. Let's hope under the new setup this is a factor when buying new players
Huge over exaggeration, not all players are like that and SAF was the master in adapting his personality to suit.
players and their mentalities have changed, they are soft. Look at the dressing room. We went from keane, neville, giggs, butt, vidic, rio, evra, rooney, etc... to what we currently have. SAF's style back then wouldn't work now. I actually don't think SAF would apply that attitude had he been the manager now anyway. I recall he said, not sure if in an interview or his book, the key to his continuity was the fact that he adapted. He adapted to the change in the game and players' mentalities. He probably wouldn't be the same, but would surely know how to deal with it.
Yup, one of Fergies greatest strength was understanding his players and how to approach and motivate them. Happy to give Ronaldo extended time off, even mid season, because he understood his personality and what he needed. Shame that there are still people who don't understand this about Fergie, and who still think it was all about shouting in the dressing room
Could well be the case, I'm not judging his feelings, he's entitled to it, if the penalty miss and the disgusting racial abuse that followed has affected his form, then it's completely understandable.
I was talking about how we as a club have no idea that the player we just bought is going to take an entire season to pick himself up from an adversity.
Is it suddenly a fact that this is the case, or did you just decide to pretend?'
For example, when Ferguson kicked the boot at Beckham in that infamous hairdryer, he'd won the treble, CL, 6 or 7 leagues with United at that point. He had a respect that allowed him to get away with doing that. He was untouchable and was bigger than the players. Most managers don't have that presence or aura or achievement and the players will win the battle.
Even when Ferguson came to United, he'd won European trophies with Aberdeen of all teams, and won 2 leagues in a Celtic-Rangers league. That demands serious respect. If you don't have much of a CV and you start rattling cages, you can't really expect it to go down well. If you have a big record, then you can.
Even when Ferguson came to United, he'd won European trophies with Aberdeen of all teams, and won 2 leagues in a Celtic-Rangers league. That demands serious respect. If you don't have much of a CV and you start rattling cages, you can't really expect it to go down well. If you have a big record, then you can.
Honestly no it wouldnt work and thats no slight on the great man - you can only really be the greatest of your era!
Today's players are millionaires at 21 - society is more individualistic and most importantly does not accept anyone saying anything that could possibly be interpreted as derogatory by anyone.
Its extremely difficult to create a siege mentality like SAF did with young players now.
You only have to look at the “player fc” fans to see the difference, in SAF s day it was 100% the team and every player was expendable
Today's players are millionaires at 21 - society is more individualistic and most importantly does not accept anyone saying anything that could possibly be interpreted as derogatory by anyone.
Its extremely difficult to create a siege mentality like SAF did with young players now.
You only have to look at the “player fc” fans to see the difference, in SAF s day it was 100% the team and every player was expendable
What sets Fergie apart from the rest is his management style began in the 70s and ended in 2013. The players he dealt with in 2013 earning £150k a week were totally different to those of the late 70s and early 80s who were outlearned by the guys in the crowd watching them. he adapted to get the best out of the players and I have no doubt had he been managing today he would be just as successful. I dont think the players of 2022 are that far removed from 2013.
I think he would sort out the dressing room in about half an hour and there a few of these guys what wouldnt see a United shirt again. Paul Pogba wouldn't be getting offered £400k a week thats for sure.
I think he would sort out the dressing room in about half an hour and there a few of these guys what wouldnt see a United shirt again. Paul Pogba wouldn't be getting offered £400k a week thats for sure.
He wont the title in 2013 with players who were earning fortunes and aren't that different to todays players?
Some players in our current squad would not be here if we had Prime SAF
And a few would be behaving very differently from how they do now, or they would soon see the door.
SAF changed his approach depending on who he was dealing with, and I believe he would change to suit the way it is now,
and never afraid to put someone in their place, irrespective of who it was.
Wasnt perfect and has admitted a few times he would have done some things differently, but head and shoulders above anyone we have
had since, and still would be one of the top managers in World Football.
Even with the same squad, I think we would be winning more games than we are now, and most likely more enjoyable to watch, win, or lose.
We would be closer to winning the title than we are now
And a few would be behaving very differently from how they do now, or they would soon see the door.
SAF changed his approach depending on who he was dealing with, and I believe he would change to suit the way it is now,
and never afraid to put someone in their place, irrespective of who it was.
Wasnt perfect and has admitted a few times he would have done some things differently, but head and shoulders above anyone we have
had since, and still would be one of the top managers in World Football.
Even with the same squad, I think we would be winning more games than we are now, and most likely more enjoyable to watch, win, or lose.
We would be closer to winning the title than we are now
He would have learned to adapt i'm sure.
It honestly surprises me a bit to see the amount of supporters, on a fecking Manchester United supporters forum, not having the slightest clue whatsoever about Fergies personality. Bizarre.
Odd question to ask, but I'll answer it anyway.
If you read my first reply to the thread you will understand how I mentioned knowing the player's personality before we sign them.
SAF's style worked because he knew exactly what he was working with because he understood them as people and characters before buying them.
This is exactly what I said, I'm not sure why you'd think I'm pretending.
It wasn't just his ruthlessness that's doing a disservice to his man management.
He'd build a bond with his younger players and really guide them as a person so that if he needed to dish out the hairdryer treatment they'd know it was just.
He'd build a bond with his younger players and really guide them as a person so that if he needed to dish out the hairdryer treatment they'd know it was just.
How is it an odd question, you made the following claim:
Is it a fact that Sancho is taking an entire season to pick himself up from adversity? Does it even have anything to do with adversity? He's 21 years old, this is his first season in the premier league and he's playing for a side that's anything but well functioning. Could it perhaps be a combination of adapting to an entirely different pace of football, the pressure of a huge transfer fee and needing time to get used to new teammates in a team that is clearly struggling? It's hardly the easiest transition just in terms of leagues, and when the team you're playing for is shit as well it doesn't really make it easier.
This 100%. Above all else he built a team bond and spirit of great togetherness, which has been the subject of books on management. The opposite of Mou who motivated by fear and anger. The hair dryer was a small component of his management. The one flaw is that he struggled in later stages as some players became true superstars, as shown with Beckham and also he hated agents and their fees. He may be ahve been right on these things but you had to adapt, in other areas this was what he was good at. However sadly our youth system was left well behind in the last period of his management.
Exactly this, and one thing SAF always did is show care for the players, yet, be ruthless when needed as he understood the club is more important than any player.
He didn't struggle with superstars. He thought Beckham's off the pitch activities was having a negative effect on his performances and he hardly cared much for his missus either, they clashed and he got rid before it had a negative overall effect. He hated some agents, while he was perfectly happy to line up the pockets of a certain Portuguese agent.
Of course it's never going to be an easy transition, I'm not speaking about the blame that Sancho deserves, these are things we as a club should be taking into consideration before we buy a player, which clearly we haven't. I don't even know what point you're trying to make.
The entire season thing was a slight exaggeration, I'm hoping it does not take that long, but so far he as one league goal.
Exactly how many things do you usually invent in your own mind and pretend to be facts?
What are you even on about? Do you have a point to make or just free time to type nonsense?
A poster responded to my initial reply saying that the loss of confidence could well be because of the racial abuse he received instead of the penalty miss, to which I responded that if that is the case then we as a club have not done our homework right before buying a player.
I'm not going to give you any more clarification and explanation, you're free to assume whatever you want. Come back to me if you have a point to make,
Why this extreme need to make shit up?
How could you possibly know anything about what the club took into consideration or not? We signed a 21 year old English talent for a record fee on a 5 year contract with the option for an additional year, do you really think it's beyond the realms of possibility that we were thinking long term and that we were fully aware he would need time to adapt?
Players will tolerate anything reasonable as long as they are winning in spades. Fergie's style worked even back in the day because he was winning consistently.
Him needing time to adapt tactically to a new league and a dysfunctional team is not what I was speaking about with the other poster when you jumped in.
Again, I'm not criticising the player, he's just 21 yrs old and these things will obviously take time.
His confidence was something I mentioned as an example of the kind of personalities we have at the club now, as opposed to the players we had under SAF, Ronaldo and Rooney had an incident at the EUROs and both of them came back fine and won us multiple leagues. Evra had the Suarez incident and it had little to no affect on his performance.
I was saying how the players now are not able to cope with things like these.
Hope I've made myself clear now.
I'd say Pep is more ruthless. SAF always gave players, even those he may have questioned, a fair crack-of-the-whip.
SAF wasn't this ruthless tyrant you make him out to be.
He was clearly very loving and motivated if he felt you were giving him 100%.
If you didn't, he'd make it very clear that you'd be gone if it carried on. Players knew the line.
He was clearly very loving and motivated if he felt you were giving him 100%.
If you didn't, he'd make it very clear that you'd be gone if it carried on. Players knew the line.