If anything, today shows the impact Bailly makes. Our defence hasn't been good for most of the season where we have been bailed out by de gea. Both sides of the argument are fair. We are good defensively when fully fit, but with no Bailly for most the season, we made so many stupid mistakes and would leak chances.
Does today show that our defense isn't reliant on our keeper?
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Smalling was dreadful against palace. And against spurs. And against sevilla.
He was man of the match against Palace and had a great game against Chelsea before that. First half against Palace he was poor yes but he was flawless in the second and was key in our comeback hence the MOTM award. How was he dreadful against Sevilla?
Against palace he was part guilty for two goals. Not one, two. He was the reason why we were behind in the first place. Against sevilla he was all over the place. They had more than 20 shots. Meh, if you think that he is good than ok. It is your opinion.He was man of the match against Palace and had a great game against Chelsea before that. First half against Palace he was poor yes but he was flawless in the second and was key in our comeback hence the MOTM award. How was he dreadful against Sevilla?
He lost him more than twice, it just wasn't punished. Him and Matic kept switching, so much so I thought it mightve been some strange tactic.
How was he partly guilty for both goals? Maybe he could've handled Benteke better for the first before he played Townsend for the goal but that wasn't even technically an error that directly led to the goal. You're reaching really with this nitpicking and I doubt you'd even mention it if your preferred CB was in the same position. Also, it was Valencia who switched off for their second goal after the quick free kick. All this is becomes uncircumstantial when his performance in the second half, including his goal, helped bring united back into the game. You don't think a player can make an error and still have a MOTM performance? Well Mourinho and Sky sports thought so. Our midfield offered zero protection against Sevilla and McTominay was way our of his depth.
He only lost him once, that first time when it came off van Dijk's shoulder. He got outjumped by him another two times but was there challenging enough to perhaps put him off. He won a couple of other times. It's what happens when two extremely strong headers of the ball are against each other; it's unlikely he'll win every one. None of our other defenders would have stood a chance against van Dijk in the air today.
It shows that we can defend well when we set up to defend deep with 9 players, which we don't do in most games. But for example we played the same way against Arsenal away and they created chances every 3min and De Gea had to stand on his head over and over. At the end of the day the win today is just one game and it's a bit naive to say that one game proves this or that. We've had just as many displays of so-so defending this year as we've had rock solid ones like today.
The answer to the question the title of this thread poses can be easily seen in our performances against Arsenal away and Liverpool at home. One victory was due to a goalkeeper having one of the greatest performances this club has ever seen, the other was a vintage Mourinho, defensive masterclass. There’s been more of the first than the latter this season.
I'm not going to argue today, but I disagree that Smalling only lost Van Dijk once. He only lost him once that Van Dijk should've scored from, but he lost him plenty of other times that Van Dijk didn't get to.
It was our most complete defensive performance of the season but, we have not consistently put in performances like this defensively this season.
Brilliant from the back 4 today but the mentality that's needed for the bigger games is different from your average PL game so while our defence is decent it's still obviously far from unfallible
I can't say I noticed any other times, but perhaps. Although I wonder were they times that Smalling left him to go win the ball that was going to a different spot? On the one hand that is a dangerous game as it leaves his man free, on the other he knows he is our best header of the ball so it gives us the best chance of actually clearing the ball.
Fellaini bossed the box from corners when he came on though.
Any player having a good season for us becomes a player we are over-reliant on. Where's the press about City being over-reliant on De Bruyne or Liverpool on Salah? He's a top keeper doing his job.
Because usually on top sides GKs do not have to do much.
But we are allowed to play a goalkeeper. And a goalkeeper preventing a goal is just as valid as anyone doing one. Any excuse to have a go at United.
We've previously been "over-reliant", on Van Persie, Rooney, Zlatan, Martial and Ronaldo.
Other teams are praised for having players play at a world class level, we're criticised. And our "fans" buy into it.
Bailly and Valencia are good.
Smalling and Young were good today but if we want Champions Leagues and Premier Leagues, we need better. That’s my opinion.
Alex Sandro and Varane, Umtiti or Alderweireld to replace them.
Smalling and Young were good today but if we want Champions Leagues and Premier Leagues, we need better. That’s my opinion.
Alex Sandro and Varane, Umtiti or Alderweireld to replace them.
Perhaps you're right. The general feeling I usually get from Smalling is that he isn't that bright though
This mean we missed Bailey so much, even an unfit Bailey is still better than Jones or Lindelof. Shaw has a lot to learn from Young.
I mean unlike most games we essentially at times defended with a back 6 and 2 in front of that shielding it. So it’s hard to point at it and say it was all down to the back 4. The team defensively played well and Mata and Rashford and actually even Sanchez did a great job of getting back to help out then being able to get forward.
So no it doesn’t show that at all. What it shows is tactically at times Jose has no problem just filling our defensive 3rd with bodies and sacrificing a bit of our attacking potential to do so.
So no it doesn’t show that at all. What it shows is tactically at times Jose has no problem just filling our defensive 3rd with bodies and sacrificing a bit of our attacking potential to do so.
Tbf Young and especially Valencia have not been wingers for years now.
Our dependence on DDG has been growing progressively lesser since Jose took over. The period from Dec and Jan was something of an outlier in terms of DDG bailing us out. Overall, we've been very solid defensively under Jose.
Our defence, at best, is inconsistent. It was probably exacerbated by the lack of a midfield for large parts of the season though.
Normally your point would be valid.
However when we sacrifice so much going forwards to be solid defensively, we should not be conceding so many shots on goal.
And yes, xG takes shot difficulty and position into account.
Beware that both goals were initiated from DDG, hence his distribution has improved. This means we rely more on his other aspects of the game instead of goal-stopping alone.
Agree.
I think our 5CBs are all decent and in the right 2 or 3 will form good partnerships.
Smalling/Jones is obviously a solid NO.
They are all however very inconsistent. That's what is lacking from them. They can all give 10 good games but you know that a blunder is coming.
In De Gea we expect and generally receive a solid season.
Alex Sandro and Toby would be perfect
I think it's down to the manager and the coaching staff,he has always been terrific at setting his teams up defensively and we aren't any different.If we sign a better LB and a ball playing CB,we will be brilliant at the back next season...Our only problem right now at the back is that we don't have a quality ball playing CB who can bring the ball out from the back.Lindelof was supposed to be that ball playing CB,but he hasn't really established himself so far....
De Gea has saved our bacon many times this season, but our defense was immense against the Liverpool pressure. McTominay also played a huge part breaking up so many plays. Wonder what Bailly would be like if he had a brain.