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Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate
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Nobody's usurping anything.
Congress is coequal with the President, so there's no power to take over. In that sense, it's impossible for this to be coup, since these very check-and-balances are baked into American-style Democracy.
Also, impeachment is a censure, and doesn't affect what the President is allowed to do.
Congress is coequal with the President, so there's no power to take over. In that sense, it's impossible for this to be coup, since these very check-and-balances are baked into American-style Democracy.
Also, impeachment is a censure, and doesn't affect what the President is allowed to do.
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Precisely; it’s Republican tactics 101.
Ah, so you're proudly ignorant, rather than innocently misinformed. My mistake.
It's always quite predictable when guys like Gator Nate are quiet for most of the time in a thread like this and then come out of the woodwork.
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excuse me?
Haha sorry meant Gator Nate.
Wow that hurts!
Yeah practically identical those two posters...
Ouch 
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Correct in terms of both Steve!
it appears - to whom, Democrats maybe, not Republicans, hence merely an opinion?
Your view regarding the Dem's motivation is merely an opinion - it appears so!
The thing is that the Democrats know already that this impeachment process is a 'lame duck'' process, its going nowhere, so why put the country through this 'hoax', as Trump calls it, more balls for him to hit out of the park! Hence in these terms it has to be seen as an attempted 'coup'
You could further argue that much like our own Labour Party, the Democrats are failing to live up to the role of a serious 'Opposition'.
This is incoherent nonsense. You either don't know or don't care what a coup is; you certainly don't understand the impeachment process and have exhibited next to no grasp of the events that have led to it.
Distilled down to its primary idiocy your argument is this: That at the same time as instituting proceedings with the goal of promoting Pence to the presidency the Democrats also know they can't promote Pence to the presidency. On its face this is obviously very stupid analysis and i'm thankful no-one pays you for it. Then the very fact that impeachment can't succeed is submitted as evidence of an abuse of power by the democrats despite the fact that impeachment will fail because the Senate prefers to assert acquittal before a trial has even been heard - itself an abrogation of constitutional duty, and an abuse of power by the Senate majority.
I see you’re also not familiar with the term “indictment”.
It appears Trump has a Caf account.
That's a real indictment of the newbie system.
It's funny because a lot of his supporters are actually this stupid. Case in point; this thread.
Surely somewhere in the world there's someone that could argue in favor of Trump by using logic and arguments instead of yeah, but Biden and Hillary and also, dems are liars.
Surely?
I just let this pass me by but have caught up a bit with the to and fro. You're on a wind up, right?
Haha, no. This is the barfly presidency. A comments page administration. You will never get any sense from these people.
These fecking deplorables will defend anything this cnut does, even kidnapping babies, because "obummer" did it first. It's so hard to engage them on a civilized level because of the whataboutism.
The biggest shame is on the Repubs. None of them even prepared to call the president out even though they may not be for impeachment. The Dems should have gone all out on those subpoenas for Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo etc. Surely the US public can't be that blinkered even after the new disclosures this week. Hopefully all the other stuff will start passing though the court system and into the public arena next year.
Not really, I am just surprised at how impotent the Democrats seem to be/are in the face of a man they believe to be stupid, a buffoon, a racist and God knows what else. Surely someone of that ilk should be easy meat? However Trump appears to be giving them the run-around and so they have come up with the idea of using the impeachment process to get rid of him.
OK, fair enough this is a major constitutional weapon, but they are using a serious constitutional process, effectively as part of a coup to get rid of Trump; but the trouble is the figures don't add up, they will not get the two thirds needed in the Senate and they know this going in, but still they put the country through this process.
Why have they done this? Surely there has to be a fifty-fifty chance at least of seeing the process through, otherwise what is the point? Won't Trump garner even more support if he is vindicated by the Senate?
I would have thought that if you are going to try to 'stick it' to the most powerful man on earth, you should at least load both barrels?
Straight from the playbooks of Hannity, Limbaugh, and RWNJs around.
So in your view they should have done nothing?
I fail to see how they could feasibly loaded both barrels with a senate that had openly said they are not impartial.
No, but they have been after Trump since he took office. They appear to be continually opposing the man not his ideology, hence since they have not been able to lay a glove on him, then whatever the impeachment plays like in the US, to the outside world it looks like another attempt to 'get Trump' and a ham-fisted one at that. The numbers across both houses do not add up and there has been no sign whatsoever that enough Republicans would vote against in the Senate to get a guilty verdict. This is not a surprise, not an unknown, not an unforeseeable outcome, it is as clear as day.
Hence, for the Democrats to proceed on this basis then this has indeed become a 'coup,' they have taken a serious constitutional process and used it very wantonly, simply just as a big stick to beat Trump about the head, to embarrass, to wound, but knowing it cannot to kill. I'm afraid that's what it looks like to all but the most ardent Democrats. The fact that Pelosi had to hold up her hand to prevent Democrats cheering at the announcement of Article 1, says it all, that shot went around the world!
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Or maybe Trump committed impeachable offenses and the house is simply doing its job?
Nah that can't be it..
Attacking the process because you can’t dispute his actions. How familiar.
I am not attacking the process, just the use of it when the outcome is already known, waste of taxpayers dollars don't you think?
That's how it works in the US. You don't not impeach because there aren't enough votes in the Senate to convict. You impeach based on the conduct and evidence before you.
Absolutely not. Do you think they should just ignore his actions and let him get away with it all together because the senate is complicit?
The Democrats aren’t trying to convince people like you, they’re literally just doing the job they were elected to do and performing oversight of the President. That the senate isn’t going to convict is no shame on the Democrats, it’s a shame on the Republicans and plenty of moderate Republican talking heads have already come out with scathing remarks about McConnell and the other complicit Senators behaviour.
Trump has been impeached, rightly so by his actions and that is recorded history now regardless of what the Senate decide to do and that is right. If the Democrats ignored it because it was futile in the Senate they’d have been as complicit as McConnell and co. They haven’t and they’re not.
Imagine how many kids we could have caged with those dollars.
But he is getting away with it, isn't he?
Clearly the process cannot enforce a bi-partisan approach as one might have thought the founding fathers would have expected it to do, therefore perhaps it should only be used when a bi-partisan outcome can be assured? Otherwise it is open to the charge of being misused, or as as part of a coup, and of wasting tax payers dollars!
No.
The process was created by the Framers before the first political parties existed in the US.
That may well be the case, but surely if there is absolutely no chance of a conviction, then to proceed is a waste of money? Certainly in the UK the CPS regularly do not prosecute unless they believe there is a good chance of a conviction.
Yes perhaps that is the lesson to be learned, do away with political parties and each member of the Representatives and the Senate is elected as an independent... that might work!
In the US, you impeach if the conduct of the President warrants it and there are enough votes in the House to move the articles along to the Senate. At that point, the House has done its job and its the Senate's job to have a trial and ultimately vote whether not to convict.
Also worth noting that Hamilton actively lobbied for impeachment to be included in the constitution with language that is pretty much bang on about Trump in the present.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-12-02-0184-0002
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